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would like to state that when you are taken off disability and deemed fit for work,are you not by law asked to disclaim any medical history?like when you have been in prison don’t you have to inform your employer that you have been to jail? isnt with holding information a sac cable offence?would not the employer see you more as a liability case more than an asset to there company and a risk factor to them selves and to other employees? these doctors at actos should give there name in full then when an individual is injured or an accident to any-other member of the work force due to that employee due to there illness and incapability to work but being passed as fit for work by those at actos that those doctors should be made accountable by further action in a court of law,where upon negligence of being deemed fit for work would be inappropriate evaluation,and due to being passed fit for work that a hight percentage of injury was more than a probability having disclaimed to the employer to begin with that they in fact would be a liability to those that employ them?what will be the question then that is asked do you not wont a job by the job centre?as you tell every interview that you are unfit for work and you cant do this and you cant do that,but if you don’t disclaim this information then your be with holding information witch is a sac-able offence and if you are injured or injure someone else and you haven’t told them about your disabilities then you would not be able to claim for injuries sustained.
Comment by carllancett — January 1, 2012 @ 4:40 pm
Hello Carllancet.
Obviously as you can work out for yourself they are accountable to no one, they follow no law because the law doesn’t apply to them, this is just one of the issues we have with them and if any of us need to prove any kind of culpability regarding ATOS or the DWP decision makers then you can see that is a court case with no legal aid allowed, can you afford to take ATOS to court ? if you can then let us all know because we can supply all the evidence you need to get you started, for instance up to now at least a dozen and probably more have committed suicide because of the erroneous decisions of ATOS and the DWP decision makers, then there’s all the thousands of functional assessment reports that are packed to the brim with easily refuted lies.
You can see our problem ?.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 1, 2012 @ 8:35 pm
i was alarmed to hear of any person or persons taking there own life as regards to any one being affected under this new government and its so called new polices,thoe i was not being in anyway judgemental to people who are being scrutinised by there disabilities,but in favour of people being treated as people in there own right to stand and to be herd and assessed by doctors not on a 15 minit interview by inadequate staff,if i was a solicitor i would stand up in a law of court and defend people who are disabled and have a right to be assessed by people doctors specialists that have known them for years and have ether seen the improvements over the years or the deterioration on there health to make factual comments and assessments on there capability to be whether reintegrated back into work,or to determine whether this persons health would deteriorate if they were put to work and would suffer in the long run,only causing more affliction on those that suffer due to there disabilities or illness,if there is no grounds for legal aid as you say then would there not be grounds on a no win no fee basis then if a person was made to work under the new legislation become ill was unable to cope with there duties and as a result an accident occurred,because legal aid would be imposed then,the mass law suits would be inevitable due to risk factors being ignored when stated upon on c.v.s that the person before them is ether ill,disabled but fit for work,its going to happen,you cant expect people that are unable to work to work,and the mass liability cases that will arise from this will be inevitable, that’s y i said when they are assessed to take full note of the doctors name,for is it not stated now that were there is blame there is a claim…trust this will happen but on mass!!!! look forward to your reply…………………………carl
Comment by carllancett — January 1, 2012 @ 9:33 pm
Hello again Carllancet.
First of all you have to understand that they have the defense that it is not a medical assessment, according to them (ATOS/DWP) it is a functional assessment and if challenged with the question why do you need Drs and nurses then if it is not a medical assessment ? the reply is well it’s because there’s a medical component in there.
You ask if there is any lawyers who will work on a no win no fee basis ? or pro bono publico ? I have to tell you that as far as we can see the answer is NO, we know of no lawyers who are prepared to take on the might of ATOS/DWP and the Government Juggernaut to back them up.
Causing trouble for the Government is hazardous to a lawyers health, this is UNUM, ATOS, and the British Government we are talking about not some piddling like GPs surgery from the dark outer fringes. But if you happen to know anyone who is a lawyer and likes to get picked up at five in the morning and taken to a disused warehouse for a good work over with rubber batons, again please let us know who this brave person is.
But of course if one of us won the lottery, then that’s a different story, when it comes to money most people would sell their grannies…and lawyers are no exception.
I believe your question regarding lawyers and pro bono etc has already been discussed on the forum http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/
Comment by dwpexamination — January 1, 2012 @ 10:47 pm
hi again thanks for your reply,i do agree with you statement,so what then if we look at defeat when a battle is not yet fought?what would be the point in any conversation or material being made and prepared for a defence case against actos when it is seen as invincible?there for it would be better then for people to shut up and put up?i think not,the trouble with this country that rules are made to follow,it is stated that this new system is fairer and just on those grounds alone could be argued that this is not the case as like you have stated that there have been suicides as a result of this new assessment for which lay grounds for concern obviously and needs to be high lighted,the d.w.p will continue employing actos over a three year period to weed out as its said benefit cheats because the system has been taken for a ride where upon you have an entire family all claiming the sick then highlighted in the paper jogging, dancing, running, swimming,so you cant blame the ordinary joe blogs who goes to work struggling to buy a car when there is nothing wrong with the man over the road and i may add of many cases where people have given a statement to the press mocking the system so when we hit a recession its no wonder mr camron has said ok lets weed them out BUT it has to be stated that genuine cases of people that do have a severe medical backgrounds are being assessed over a 15 minit time span and being ignored by these so called doctors with specialist material that back there claims up,not to mention people who are under mental health issues and are clearly opting out by the means of suicide,so there are going to be a lot of suicides then no one can tell me that this will not be highlighted?or brought to the attention of the general public as three years is along time to be hearing that people who are disabled and mentally ill are opting out to the MEANS TEST OF SUICIDE.could you inform me of what is the opinion of ed of the labour party?have these concerns been raised with him or any rep concerning these issues and if any can any light or information be forwarded as direct conformation that these death were contributed as a result of these assessments and what if any any correspondance with the mental health to highlight these claims where the system is failing severe ill people,there are starting points it just that they need to be addressed!!! look forward to your reply thanks carl
Comment by carllancett — January 2, 2012 @ 10:46 am
Hello Carl.
I didn’t say that ATOS were invincible, they are fragile and vulnerable, hence the reason why they tried to get various anti ATOS websites shut down, all their lawyer did was force those websites to relocate to a server in Iceland where British law does not apply, websites which dared to tell the unvarnished truth about ATOS/UNUM and their henchmen at the DWP, websites like our sister forum http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ and other sites like the original black triangle, so as you can see they are so arrogant they think they can do anything but instead of shutting them up they only made things worse for themselves (ATOS lawyer must be kicking himself) because now these sites are invulnerable and can now say what they like without comebacks.
Only thing we can’t get is the support of the mainstream media, just a couple of exceptions like the Guardian, Daily mirror and the Private eye, but the Daily mail, Express and the Sun are so pro ATOS they dare not even mention that name just in case their loony readers start asking awkward questions like ”who are UNUM/ATOS ?”.
Our problem is getting fair representation in law, if we get that then ATOS/UNUM are finished because the evidence against them is totally overwhelming, but getting a lawyer to take on the massive amount of time and work necessary to defeat ATOS/UNUM without payment has so far proven impossible.
It will take more than a few thousand pounds to defeat ATOS, costs could spiral out of control because ATOS/UNUM will use every dirty trick in the book to ensure they don’t lose, that could mean among other things threatening phone calls at all hours of the day and night that nasty things can happen to you our your family if you don’t drop it.
I can see you now dear reader laughing away and thinking they won’t/wouldn’t do that, well if anybody out there is still not getting the UNUM/ATOS message and actually thinks that they will not stop at nothing to protect their multi-million pound empire then they are welcome to stay living in cloud cuckoo land, ME…I prefer to live in reality.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 2, 2012 @ 12:12 pm
thank you for your reply,if by the a ligations of falsifying medical everdance then i could well believe the measures that you have indicated and probably more,i would like to ask the same question as before if the opposition ed has been informed or any other member of the house of parliament of these ruthless tactic’s and measures that have been used in order to process people on a scale that only allows one governing body to asses disabled bodies and terminally ill people,is there anything that can be sent to the opposition that can be used to raise your views with the countless false doctrine that these doctors are using as a means to get people off the sick? or everdance to show that these suicides are linked to worries,depression,or change over being faced with new challenges that would of caused more hard ship,pain distress to those who could not deal with the hardship they faced to begin with,these are issues that are warranted these are issues that need addressing,i don’t think that any million pound lottery winner is going to donate there wealth even if they were ill them selves to highlight actos and the under-demeaning tactics that they use y would they?if they have money like that in this society things of that nature don’t happen because when it comes to money man is greedy!!!this needs to be highlighted media,patients,and as much medical claims,as possible that could be sent given to the press with an acting representative on those concerned behalf and a more fairer medical evaluation to be carried out on facts and not on false doctrine,look forward to your reply….carl
Comment by carllancett — January 2, 2012 @ 12:55 pm
Hello Carl.
There’s no easy way to tell you this, but here goes, the opposition are not the opposition they are all in it together, new labour are new tory, it’s the same present wrapped up in a different box.
Vote New labour and get a shower of bastards just as bad as Cameron and co, some talk about red Ed, and it makes me laugh because Ed is anything but red in fact Ed is as blue as can be.
So the answer to your question is New labour are in on it, New labour actually started it, they gave the contract to ATOS and renewed it even though they knew they were fabricating medical assessments right left and centre, Cameron just took off where Gordon Brown left off, the only political solution is to get rid of them all and start again because this is not a democracy this is a dictatorship, 10% of the population voted for them and they are swanning around like Hitler and the nazis and acting like bigshots.
And your probably right when you say people who win the lottery or come in to lots of money, they all of a sudden forget where they came from, there’s always a couple of exceptions and that’s a lottery itself.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 2, 2012 @ 2:04 pm
thanks for our chat if you come into any info regarding change plzz contact me,thanks carl
Comment by carllancett — January 2, 2012 @ 2:11 pm
The Government and Law, as you say is indeed, ‘flawed’ non democratic. I say in addition fascist directed, corrupt and without a slight hint of care to the destruction and devestation it is deliberating.
We do have the law on our side yet we are screwed because it costs money to be heard.
Money is being stolen for false claims of debt that we…
1. Know nothing about.
2. Why we owe?
3. Who we owe?
4. How much we owe?
5. How long have we owed?
Its the repetitive psychology the Gov play upon the general public that keeps them on top.
Ex. To say something enough times (despite proof of untruth) there will always be those whom believe that ongoing repeated lie.
Why?.. Coz the repeated lie is ever in the subconscious. To rid it is to delve into details to prove otherwise. The obviousness and typical attitude of a large percent of people never will.
Unfortunately this world is based on a knowledge learned only from ‘experience’.
If you are not affected you dont know whats going on.
Money is an evil in todays society.
Coz take it and people suffer.
They know (gov) its the easiest route to destruction.
In a realistic democracy there’d be no serious debts owed and to stumble into? a fairness to all, the low incomes would be last attacked.
The rich would be targeted for offers, the well off taxes raised, fines owed become demanded, we’d be last (as would the cutting health costs)
note they dont cut gov spending or wages. Nor cut the costs of bills (private companies are profiting when democratic ideals would stop them making billions that could be used elsewhere).
to which go look up Nicola Tesla on google coz this he is going to blow your minds.
Comment by Sue E Sidal — January 4, 2012 @ 2:13 pm
good god that was very much in your face but i have to agree with you,and may say that you are very well prepared in mind and speech to get your message across,what can i say to that?nothing………………………………………your right!!!
Comment by carllancett — January 6, 2012 @ 8:47 pm
Lol. My apologies, i rant a lot i know.
My problem (apart from the actual benefit/healthcare/social care slashings and derogatory treating of people via Atos/DWP), is the majority of society is either clueless or arrogantly ignorant.
They do not grasp that this is a ‘corrupt Government’ that will continue to be corrupt.
The continuation will next target the already and, actually ‘fit’ working man/woman, via raising taxes and lowering income to devestation, itl be, work your arse off to just managing to scrape the breadline.
This is heading towards the One World Government/New World Order, that despite the much leaked info and personal statements of all, Gordon Brown, George Bush, Barrak Obama etc, is still a low key media hushing.
The evidence is crystal clear, (check out the non conspiracy, all verified fact sites, like bilderberg.org)
Society, as is, cannot see, despite any benefit claimants health, ability and reason, that we are not frauds, we are not ‘happily living freely’, ‘spending on luxury’ nor ‘selfishly hoarding tax payers hard earned wages’.
The lunacy that is these beliefs are still widespread is only, an agenda like deliberation, why else are, sick, severely disabled, terminally ill claimants still fighting to have their own Government allow them to have a pittance just to live on?
If to say, now, after the passed few years of interogations, proving ourselves, having tribunals overturn the ‘non medical’ medicals, decisions etc, ‘ if we could go out to work, we damn well would do’, isnt that the clear indication, that we cannot!?
Its an insanity that what is continuing is not seen as the brutal and malicious deviated agenda.
Even deaths by Atos/DWP induced suicide is non ‘big news’, its sickening isnt it!
Please go read the Bilderberg link its the finance scam of the why we are ‘cashless’.
Apologies for political ranting again Nelson, tho all i say, needs to be said. Still i apologise!
Comment by Sue E Sidal — January 7, 2012 @ 12:29 pm
P.S.
I honestly (non sarcastic i assure you) love that you say of my mind being well prepared.
Actuality being i have a mentally defective medicinally induced attribute, albeit it is emotionally charged and lessening in severity as i wean from the addictive poison. (was, while high dosage, severely cognitively impairing so goes to show i am on the way back to being me so thank you youve made my day truly!)
Comment by Sue E Sidal — January 7, 2012 @ 12:39 pm
I did not take offence anyway shape or form you were just a bit of fresh air to me and others im sure!!i was glad that some- one woke me up and highlighted the information people need and your contribution to those facts were greatly received so there for apology is not needed,my x partner attended actos at five ways Birmingham upon having filled in questionnaire was told to wait for the doctor,having had two strokes she was asked to perform by raising of the arms to touch ones head, which she managed to do with one hand but had no control over her other as she was affected by the one side due to the strokes,she was then asked to crouch but could not do as requested thoe she did try but the doctor said i can see you cant do that,can you lie on the bed where upon other tasks were asked of her to perform,the doctor was not interested about how the stroke had impaired her life and her ability to function properly and the lack of control,thoe the doctor had said that she had noted that she had diabetes to the reply yes i have to take insulin injections and suffered high blood pressure,the doctor informed her that it was not her that makes the decision and that d.w.p would decide on her ability to be able to work or not,she was informed by d.w.p by phone that she was considered fit for work thoe she could appeal but her money would stop and when my x stated that she had children to look after and feed what job could she possibly do?who would employ her?it was said that she should go onto job seekers allowance, or wait for the appeal to go through,i am very proud of my x because she has come along way but in no way is she employable,more than a liability to her self and others if she was employed, don’t get me wrong she has never been shy of work never and up until her two strokes had always worked,i watched the strive and determination that my x had to go through in order to learn how to talk again,walk again,so that she could keep her children,i saw the fear in her eyes i saw this person who had worked all her life reduced to a mumbling wreck with panic in her eyes who thought she was going to die,who would of loved to of not had a stroke and been still at work,even when she was ill she still went,so it saddens me and sickens me when someone does an physical evaluation on someone who cant work but would work and has done so all her life is subjected to a 15 mins evaluation with a doctor who has no knowledge of what she can and cannot do apart from a means test that does not and has not credibility to what she can and cannot do,but of the information that is in front of her as a guide line for the doctor to view because they are not viewed as facts are they!!!! but doctors who have known my x for many years and have got to know her medical historie that is overturned and not seen as facts by a doctor that has no knowledge of her medical history………………………………..thanks carl
Comment by Anonymous — January 7, 2012 @ 3:58 pm
Hello Anon.
Your ex does not have to sign on if she appeals, that is a typical DWP lie, she can apply for the assessment rate while she waits for her appeal to be heard, the assessment rate is the same money as Job seekers allowance so there is no sense in bending to their will and meekly signing on.
Their idea of withholding this vital information is to trick us in to thinking there is no choice, they know fine well what they are doing is wrong and downright immoral but they don’t care. So appeal and win with help here at the forum http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ you may also get help from your local welfare rights office or CAB.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 7, 2012 @ 6:59 pm
thanks for the reply my turn on the tenth it will be strange attending knowing for well that i will be treated the same,it is a case of lambs to the slaughter,they know that there going to be killed but they still follow the rest,thanks for the info that you have sent as well as i wasn’t informed and im sure my x wasn’t that she can still get the assessment rate as i know that they have at present stopped her money,i will contribute on findings when i attend actos and will highlight my examination im sure ill be very forth coming with any info on this whole affair,thanks…………………………………..carl
Comment by Anonymous — January 8, 2012 @ 12:01 pm
*promising to stick to subject at hand*
admittedly the advice given here already, is the best.
I only wanted to add, the further lies your ex was told is the ‘we dont decide the result’.
The truth is, each and everyone has failed prior to going, its a long drawn out process for nothing other than causing needless distress in hope you give in, give up etc.
Its worth your exs while to log all that is said by atos and dwp for the tribunal. (if anything it cant hurt to have all documented).
Im thinking in terms of the actuality of your exs condition now and believe, if certain advices and allowances etc were neglected to be given and/or lied about? (such as the job seekers or nothing lie) you may benefit from writing a letter to your local mp and explain the total disregard for the law and stated dwp agreement of human rights concerning the assessment rate up till tribunal.
Its not much i know but in effect, half of constituencey mps are back benchers that actually dont know the full account of the situations, they wont know fully the effect unless we tell them.
Mine is a tory (though i see all as with the same politics) he is however, actually with a little bit of humanity and has to date been relatively behind me.
It would not solve the problem but its the being heard and expressing lawlessness of atos/dwp.
Good luck whatever happens from here on.
Regards
Comment by Sue E Sidal — January 9, 2012 @ 1:37 am
hi,whent to medical,the out come was that i had only to move my hand left to right and up and down a scene out of the famous si-fi movie,and told that i would not be asked to be exsamend on the bed as he could see the pain i was in,got a phone call saying that i was fit for work,that i was to get in contact with my local job centre,i can not belive that i was only asked to perform the task of hand gesters and being told that he was a nurse who specialised in peanus problems not a doctore of specialist in the feild of my conditions,what ever next?carl
Comment by Anonymous — January 27, 2012 @ 12:11 pm
The entire ‘exam’ must be put, by you, into a statement form, what was said, done etc.
Take this to the tribunal who will see that this was no examination whatsoever.
If you are on good terms with your GP? Have him/her write out the actuality of your condition/s and the pain etc. Ask for all your health records foi that prove your treatments etc
If cant or GP wont? Or in addition,
Go online to sites, reputable but non pharma promotional related that focus on your ailments/illness etc, print out specifics, professional/clinical advice/concerns and have them ready for the tribunal (prob have to send in advance). The best way forward is to have all you can to prove the Atos tw@t is clearly idle, unknowing of your condition and blatantly not qualified to be in that job position.
I wish you well.
Comment by Sue E Sidal — January 28, 2012 @ 2:25 am
hi again,well i did that and he would not give me a note saying that i was unfit for work,but a sick note saying that i was able to do light duties?i raised my concern about this having the doctor stating that I Should APPEAL,so obviously i was confused because he was saying in one breath appeal the other stating on the sick note that i was ok to do light duties,i told him i had noticed that he hadn’t ticked the unfit for work,to the reply of no its all changed no with what we can do i can only give you a sick note for 3,months at a time governed by new guidelines set and enforced by this government,so we are limited on the amount of time we can put down in one go,i said but you have indicated by not putting down that im fit for work by not ticking the box that im able to work,his reply was yes light duties i said how could i possibly work never mind get to work,he said they would have to find me work that im sat down and light duties,in that case y give me a sick note?it was unfair to say i not only do i feel let down by the nurse who interviewed me but the lack of understanding that my practise had on social issues especially when this doctor was the one to tell me to appeal lost for words spring to mind,i have made op ointment to see my own doctor,thanks carl
Comment by Anonymous — February 7, 2012 @ 5:38 pm
Hello Carl.
So you are appealing and to get the assessment rate rather than signing on you need a sick note ? looks like the Dr has given you a sick note, as far as I know the DWP don’t ask/not supposed to ask you to attend a work focused interview anyway, so whether it says you can do light duties or not is academic, the point is you are meeting the DWP demand for a sick note and this means you should receive the assessment rate while you wait for the appeal to be heard.
Once the appeal is heard and if you win then you don’t need to send in a sick note anyway, because sending in a sick note is not required for those who win an appeal, by the way the appeal panel will not know what it says on your sicknote.
If you don’t win your appeal then you have two options, the first option is to re-apply for ESA that’s provided at least six months have passed and your condition has worsened slightly, back since the date you were informed by the DWP decision maker that you were fit for work. The other option is just simply signing on for JSA, and if your condition worsens then there is nothing to stop you re-applying for ESA again. When your three months is expired then go and see the Dr and get another three month note, that’s what I used to do, if your Dr is becoming stroppy then you have an alternative which is just change to another practice and get a new Dr and a fresh examination and start anew.
so deliver the sick note and get your assessment rate, and let us know how you get on..!!
Comment by dwpexamination — February 7, 2012 @ 6:42 pm
Im a little confused hon, did your own Dr not do the sick note?
I had the problem of non valid med certs back in early 2010 (bein nhs blacklisted is my situation).
But like you i had the appeal factor and the damn doctor had ticked the box ‘workplace adjustments required’ …. Wtf?????. How can that be a f**king category?
What workplace?
What kind of (psychotic potential) workplace adjustments?
I raised awareness to this as this is a ‘non valid’ concerning DWP documentation evidence, yup they log your ‘status of workplace adjustments’ or whatever as ‘medical evidence’ if n when you fail tribunal… as i did. These will be proof you are fit to work despite non sense but they are files on record.
I contacted my mp, but mainly coz of the blacklist too, i also got a community law advisor (free) whom managed to get me a 3month cert , she demanded that i had a cert till tribunal result but blacklisted as i am, they ignored and i went without.
My mp was good only for a getting speedy answering from DWP, that of the questions as to why i was not getting any benefit Dec 09-April 2010?
I rang, i wrote ,even went and spoke to the dwp but, only when my mp got involved did i get any answers, it was both non valid medcerts and a ‘blip’ on the computer, i was ‘compensated’ £50 for 4months non benefit, wasnt asked, was just shoved in my bank, so desperate i used it, hated them for it, it was an insult but i was borrowing from all my friends.
Its a situation now for you, dont let drs bullshit u on this, google community law advice uk, and so long as u can prove your income you will get both advice and the advisor do a mediation for you (speak on your behalf, to ur dr about your condition, meds etc this should have you at least in a situation that you can half relax until tribunal) good luck let me kno u get on ok
Comment by Sue E Sidal — February 8, 2012 @ 3:43 am
Ps meant my mp was ‘only’ helpful with dwp to get answers, i gotta credit him with his being good regarding the nhs, i just felt guilty belittling his worth last post when hes been behind me elsewhere (argh i hate politicians too lol)
Comment by Sue E Sidal — February 8, 2012 @ 3:50 am
hi thanks for your response,i signed on j.s.a and handed the sick note only to be told it was useless that it doesn’t stand for nothing as i was now on j.s.a?and continued to process me having looked at the note thoe and saying that it means nothing as the doctor has said you are fit for work as the box for none work hadnt been ticked,but notes to say that light duties were ok to do?i agree what was the point of a sick note?i have to now do everything that j.s.a.ask and require me to do to meet there requirements,lost for words,i feel that there is more to actos and the gov …………..carl
Comment by Anonymous — February 8, 2012 @ 9:17 am
Hello Anonymous.
It looks as if your DR is saying you are fit for work then, of course the DWP are looking for any excuse to get people to sign on rather than be part of the sick figures, if you don’t agree with that decision by your GP then the only alternative is to leave that practice and go to another one, don’t forget being a new patient in another practice means you can ask for a full medical examination and if the DR agrees you are ill then he/she will give you a sick note.
You do not have to explain to anyone why you have decided to go to a new practice, that’s your business and yours alone. Moreover even though you are signing on and appealing you can still hand in a sick note and sign off and get the assessment rate while you wait for the appeal to be heard. The decision is yours of course but I personally wouldn’t tolerate a practice that has DRs who browbeat patients out of their sick beds to sign on..!!
You will probably find that your DR believes in the welfare reforms and also believes in this Biopsychosocial model claptrap, this is a doctrine taken up by Mansell Aylward and CO, the believe is that illness and pain is all in the mind, in other words your illness is all in the mind and therefore the best thing to control and help your illness is work, work sets you free, the Nazis through their Arbeit macht frei nonsense believed in a similar load of bullshit.
Of course if you hit Ansell Aylwards spine with a sledgehammer we will soon see if pain is all in his mind or not, I suspect NOT.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 8, 2012 @ 11:13 am
thanks for your reply i go with the theory that my practice is pro actos and against well-fair sickness claimants by his attitude to the governments rules and regulations thoe have got to know that a 3 month sickness note is not all that can be issued it is in fact the discretion of the g.p. to issue a six month sick note,so again i think that you are correct on you theory that he is pro actos and anti claimants,i also read through an article were it says if a demonstration was to commence due to mass who are sick that it is deemed that the government would take heed to there voices,it is thoe a worrying thought thoe if they did campaign i wonder how many would be scrutinised by the mass turn out that are filmed and made fit for work because they are able to demonstrate,with a view of if you can demonstration and ACTIVELY demonstrate then it would be seen as ne-o Nazism theory if you can breath you can work regardless of any dissabilitys present,some one said the world would end in 20-12 but you can rest-assured actos will make sure that at that final hour day they will be making sure they hit there target just so someone was off sickness beniffit before the world ended
Comment by Anonymous — February 8, 2012 @ 7:26 pm
Hello Anonymous.
I agree, one thing I can add is that ATOS healthcare are having serious problems trying to honour their contract with the DWP, first of all they are struggling to get medical staff to work for them because the Drs here are seeing in to the future that a CV with ATOS written on it will not be conducive to their future employment prospects.
They also have a problem keeping up with the workflow, because of the amount of people winning their appeals and the DWPs strong desire to punish us for daring to appeal and having the cheek to win, ATOS cannot assess the appeal winners and assess the 13 week new claimants at the same time, this means that at the moment anyway the new claimants are winning because they are not getting assessed inside the 13 week limit which means they can start to claim the full rate, so I suspect that ATOS will have to start on them now to reduce the amount of new claimants as much as possible, this has a downside for ATOS and the DWP because they cannot get at the appeal winners so easily which means they get a break from ATOS hassle.
So then we can help the claimants as much as possible by ensuring they stand up for themselves and claim what they are legally due, and that’s all genuine claimants, if you are ill then claim, if you are assessed and you feel it is wrong then appeal.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 8, 2012 @ 8:38 pm
I totally agree with all that has been said. My daughter had an accident some years ago resulting in severe head injuries She was on life support for several weeks and was not expected to live.
She has temperol lobe epilepsy causing complex partial seizures and sometimes drop down seizures. She also has mobility problems and can only walk(painfully) with a stick. She lives on her own and with my help and the help of a microwave she manages.
The biggest problem is that she misunderstands some statements unless they are made slowly, she can get very aggressive if anyone criticicizes her. Her memory is poor and her hearing is not perfect. She just cannot seem to accept that she has these problems and, again gets aggressive if, for instance, she has a seizure – behaves in a bizarrre fashion and can put herself in danger. Her mantra is “I’m alright” – she has let me help her fill in previous forms but these new ones fill me with dread – the section where it mentions behaviour, behaviour to others etc., has sent her into a frenzy when I try to complete it with her. She has denied her problems, become aggressive to the Point where she ordered me out of her flat. Her G.P is not much help as she does not see him as she says “there is nothing wrong with me” Her G.P says unless she asks for help there is nothing he can do.
She is just about managing but I know that any assessment would be a nightmare as she would just say “I’m alright” But she is not!!!!! Her physical problems can be seen (calcified hips, unable to bend down easily, or open her legs normally) but her psychological problems are not immediately apparant – What about people like her – I am sure she cannot be the only one!!!!
Comment by Anonymous — February 8, 2012 @ 11:39 pm
Hello Anonymous.
You haven’t mentioned if your Daughter has been for an assessment at an ATOS centre yet ? and since you can’t get through to her no matter what you say or try, then all I can say is why don’t you agree with her (wink wink) and let her get on with the assessment, and when she tells the lovely Dr at ATOS that she is all right there is nothing wrong with me and then she sees the inevitable letter from the DWP that her money has stopped and could she please sign on at the Job centre because we have a volunteering Job for her at poundland.
SHE WILL SOON FIND OUT IF SHE IS ALL RIGHT OR NOT..!!
And if she phones you up and says MUM it’s terrible ATOS have said I’m fit for work and now my money has stopped and I have to volunteer in Poundland and it’s not fair etc…You can reply……………..BUT YOU SAID YOU WERE ALL RIGHT.
I CAN TELL YOU, IF IT WAS MY DAUGHTER SHE WOULD ONLY TELL ME SHE WAS ALRIGHT AND THROW ME OUT OF HER HOUSE ONCE…!!
Comment by dwpexamination — February 9, 2012 @ 8:34 am
I will advise the person of the daughter with mental difficulties in a moment but first, i have to say a few words as to my much annoyance of the former post in response….
Dont be absurd! This poor person has a daughter with mental difficulties that are hard on them both!
I can and do identify with the ‘im fine; i can do it, f*ck off leave me alone’ etc.
The medication (toxic drugs) that the daughter/ woman, is taking are alone going to be brain meddling psychotropics (to do nothing but worsen any mental state).
You simply cannot get shirty over a persons psychlogical wellbeing when there is no fault of a persons behaviours, words and actions. What you have said is, you would abandon them for their mental response to your having offered help. How can that be an answer to the trauma already in motion?
The parent having written here, is clearly in need of good, sensitive, understanding, as well as good, empathic, intelligent and therapeutic advice.
I am, or was once, a laid back and passive person, i am a person who is to know through experience, that any brain injury and damage meddling by drugs etc, can and does, alter a person to a degree of excessive depersonalisation.
There is a dire need of only three things.
1. Understanding
2. Tolerance
3. Compassion
Without these, the person with the ‘defective mental state’ will be a danger to themself and all others around them (known or random stranger).
I’ve attacked family members, refused to take help, denied my condition existed and more, this does not make me ‘unworthy’ of the offered help, nor should i be left to fend for myself.
There is much misunderstanding of mental problems and it is the hardest thing to express, have people have any compassion for and even for the persons involved to prove.
Your ‘reverse psychology’ tactic provided, with a patronising, ‘wink wink’, would be and could be severely damaging to all involved, the repercusuions could be absolutely irreversable.
Respectfully i realise you are not to have a knowledge, but unfortunately nor does anyone else, people are very brutal and ignorant to the needs that are endlessly ignored by those of us being believed as the, ‘difficult/deliberately antagonistic/unhelpable/our own worst enemy etc, this becomes the what does nothing other than belittle us via discrimination, non belief, denials to our life of excruciating excuses of existance that is the largest reason behind suicides in mental health.
The parents/families and friends who do care, have to suffer discrimination of both their loved ones denied the care needed by medical profs as also everyone else and the exhausting, hell of a life thrown upon them to, stay as the ‘one to deal with it all’ is not even noted.
These that do, are the undoubtedly truest forms of saints, unsung heroes and the most unacknowledged in life, truly amazing most beautiful people to walk this Earth.
…..
…..ADVICE!
To the parent whom said of their daughters defiance and difficulties.
I say to you, you must seek professional help asap.
Forget your daughters doctor, the dr is clearly non compassionate and without the ‘needed’ psychological education, let alone the will to want to help you both at such a massive, as also vital point in unethical and inhumane disability welfare crackdown.
You are right, your daughter is not the only one.
My advice regarding her defiance that has her aim stress and anger at you is, have a third person explain the ins and outs. This will lighten the burden for you and not have your daughter feel its you attempting to take over.
Shelter (organization) have legal advisors that can advise you both on what these questions mean on Atos forms,
They will explain or point you in a direction of whom else can ‘sensitively’ explain the ins and outs of what is her best options.
Shelter is not, as i first believed, a ‘homeless’ org, it is a fully legal advice and help centre to either assisst your difficulties or instead provide you with the right details that cater for your personal circumstances.
You, and i feel so much for you, need a break from being in the role of ‘must do all’, you cannot go any longer without both advice and support that, although not advertised, is out there.
We all have to take a step back or to the side at times and you as also your daughter, ‘need’ this support now.
Please come back and let me know how you are and get on ok.
Much respect to you. I wish you both well
Comment by Sue E Sidal — February 9, 2012 @ 12:47 pm
Hello Suicidal.
The reason the Lady has come on here asking for help is obviously because she has tried every help available that’s out there and has come up against a brick wall, and it’s a brick wall she is no longer willing to bang her head off because I can tell you that continually banging your head of a brick wall is very unpleasant indeed and has to end sometime before extreme damage is done.
You are making assumptions that her Doctor is unsympathetic and you don’t even know him/her, obviously you know more than her Dr, whist not knowing the facts you are offering ADVICE which is based based on your own experience, if it goes belly up because your ADVICE is accepted in good faith (Remember you are an expert and are offering advice) are you willing to except responsibility ?. If so please forward your name and address by e-mail to us and your willingness to take that responsibility will be given to the Lady concerned if she asks for it.
You see we on this Blog do not under any circumstances offer ADVICE instead we offer help to fight ATOS and this governments evil intentions towards us, we also make suggestions not give ADVICE on our real life experience of ATOS/DWP and what they are going to do next, as I said we do not give any kind of medical advice, but you are offering ADVICE so we must ask that you desist from offering ADVICE and offer help instead, if not please go to another Blog or forum and offer ADVICE.
I will reiterate we offer help to victims of ATOS/DWP we make suggestions based on our own reasoning and experience we are not PROFESSIONALS we are victims as well and moreover we do not get any type of payment for our help in fact it actually costs one of our members cash he does not have to help keep this Blog going, there is no obligation to follow those/our suggestions or our help.
Now let’s look at the Lady’s problem, she has been there done it wore the tee shirt and she has had enough, she can’t carry on like this, something has to give, surely you can understand that ? and my suggestion which is only a suggestion and is what I would do if I were in that situation is to let my daughter get on with it (And still keep an eye on her, there is no abandonment here) because she is an adult and can do as she pleases. They say that learning the easy way is not the right way well I don’t know about that but I know one thing learning the hard way ? stands one in good stead because I don’t care who you are if you learn the hard way you never ever forget it.
Better this Ladies daughter learns the hard way and gets the message, ATOS do not have your best interests at heart, the DWP don’t care if you live or die (because a quick learning curve can be reversed without damage) than meet with an absolute disaster abandoned, homeless, and with no one knowing she has serious problems, and with with no help whatsoever.
I WILL SAY AGAIN, WE DON’T OFFER BULLSHIT, WE DON’T OFFER MEDICAL OPINIONS, BUT WE OFFER OUR EXPERIENCE ON ATOS AND THE DWP, WE TELL IT LIKE IT IS, WE ARE NOT ASKING ANYONE TO COME ON THIS BLOG OR OUR SISTER FORUM, IF ANYONE OUT THERE IS NOT HAPPY WITH OUR HELP OR SUGGESTIONS THAT’S FINE THERE ARE OTHER BLOGS AND FORUMS THAT WILL TELL YOU WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR, WE MEAN NO ONE ANY HARM AND WE WISH ANYONE WHO IS/ARE FIGHTING ATOS OR THE DWP THE BEST OF LUCK.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 9, 2012 @ 1:43 pm
Thank you both for your help. I did not mean to cause problems between you. I just wondered if and how Atos makes provisions for people like my daughter who, in all fairness, really do not think that they have problems. People with complex problems after head injuries do not, sometimes, look at things like the rest of us. Does Atos train their staff to recognize and realize this? If my daughters benefit is stopped I could not see her homeless – I would have to try to support her and I really cannot afford it. I am a pensioner and it is a real worry to me.
Comment by Anonymous — February 10, 2012 @ 12:00 am
Clearly you do not like being told you are insensitive yet clearly you are.
Atos is the prime reason i gave advice for, had it not been for Shelter my benefits would never have been resolved neither before nor after, my failed second exam. the offer of advice was to ‘go to a professional’ that may not have been tried yet?’, is that fucking so far from this fucking sites motives???
A person is clearly desperate, yet ‘you dont aprove’ of any advice on how this person should obtain help?
The what i have said, as it does state., the professionals will assist help for the, obviously very vunerable persons position.
Unlike all ‘victims’ in the Atos target to destroy category, us that have to prove a mentally unstable vunerability, are a walk in the park screw over to DWP and Tribunal.
We spend all time in denial of a mental defect, to be treated half normal. What the fuck do you know about how we then can cope, with admittance to ourselves as a hope to convince these bastards?
You think its hard on your sanity?
Its a head fucking to potentiate a severe personality breakdown that you have no fucking idea about, never fucking will and are actualy causing right fucking now?
And my speaking of the doctor had no fucking indication of knowing more than etc etc, go fucking reread! I merely made an accurate assumption of any mental patients doctors cunting arrogance. You truly can fuck off with your holier than thou ‘Atos only’ tantrum rant you clueless fucking prick.
I wont bother coming into your sites again, pity coz i could actually lend an ear to many and let them know they are not alone.
You dont know what damage your ignorant little self superiority pea brain is capable of, all i ask is you see the world outside of your little bullshit brain box. You ugly on the inside, conceited little dick as for setting me off, i hope you can identify with yourself being only one in millions of the victimised you fucking piece of idle cunting shit..
Comment by Sue E Sidal — February 10, 2012 @ 4:44 am
Hi anon, there seems to be some misunderstanding here so I thought I would give it a go. ATOS are a private company employed by the DWP to achieve a target of removing 1 million people from sickness benefits by 2012. They are profit orientated just like any other private sector business, the alleged medical has been exposed as being a sham and ATOS now call it a “functional assessment”. This assessment does not focus on our sickness or disabilities mental or physical, it focusses on what we can do as opposed to the effect our sickness/disability has on our ability to perfgorm work related tasks. Because of this the alleged Healthcare Professionals do not have to be experts in our particular are of sicknbess or disability and can be anything from a recently qualified physiotherapist to a retied specialist. This has raised concerns amongst our members for the last 3 years and the more we dig, the more we reveal. At present ATOS are under pressure to introduce changes recommended by the Harrington report, are having difficulty in recruiting staff as potential H.C.P.’s are beginning to realise that having ATOS on your C.V. is not a good thing, are under pressure from groups like us and because of thier private work can not meet thier cintractural obligations to the Government.
Theres the background, now on to your issue. I too have a family member with mental and physical disabilities who can not see they are ill. When faced with a stranger or anyone they see as being a “Doctor” my family member denies any illness/disability and says they are all right, even though it is clear they are not. This is extremely difficult to deal with and I have often found myself in your situation and have indfeed said “thats it, I’ve had enough and wont be helping you again”. It’s extremely difficyult when this situation arises and as previously stated after it has had time to sink in it is often too late. Haviong a family member who is clearly in denial can be draining and extremely difficult to deal with, I had to become my family members guardian and get power of attorney to help defend them as they clearly were not capable of doing so themselves. If you are not thier official guardian and they are over the age of 18 you can not speak on thier behalf, as you can see it is difficult. I have been threatened, lied about, spat on, physically assaulted and several other things I dont want to write about whilst defending my family members rights, so I speak form experience. I know your situation is different from mine but I bet if you look you can see several glaring similarities.
Thats the experience bit now what you can do. Have you had the ESA50 form yet? I cant seem to find your original contact here maybe my cognition is slipping to day eh? please confirm. If you have the ESA50 it is essential you fill the form in to your daughters advantage, you need to look at the descriptors to accomplish this, if you want the descriptors please contact me on dwpexamination@aol.com and I will be happy to oblige. It is essential you include every bit of supporting evidence you can from the healthcare professionals dealing with your daughter and I mean everything, from the time she had her accident onwards would be a good starting point. Once you have this done (and there are ways of explaining why this needs to be done to your daughter in the hope she will understand)make copies and return the form to ATOS by recorded delivery and await thier response.
You are in a difficult position and sometimes you will find you have to make difficult decisions as I have done to get a result. Hope this helps.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 10, 2012 @ 8:50 am
Hi Sue e sidal, thank you for you elequent response to my co editors reply. May I begin by thanking you for demonstrating how frustration can often lead to knee jerk reactions. As you can see (Because you can not resist looking to see if one of us responds to your missive) I stand behind my co editors comment which you have clearly misread and hence misunderstood. Let me begin by trying to explain our position here at DWP examination.
Joe and I work very hard on behalf of our members to try and offer a solution to thier various issues. We have discovered over the last 3 years that offering advice can often come back and bite you hard on the face. This is why we offer information and intellegence based upon the our own personal experiences and those of our members and readers. We try wherever possible to be supportive and kind in what we write, however, there conmes a time when it is necessary to try to wake our commentators up and get theminto a stronger frame of mind then thay were when they wrote to us seeking help. This is what Joe did, he gave his view on how he would be dealing with family members who treated him badly and let me assure you, it’s from his own personal experience. May I also remind you we do this for free, we do not charge as some other sites do and that is why we are so popular and have such a wide range of readers.
This poor woman is now worried that she has caused conflict on this blog, let me assure her that this is not the case and she should continue focusing on how to try to find a way to reach her daughter and help her rather than worrying about us. I appreciate your concern and you comments, what I do not like is the manner in which you have chosen to express your anger on this blog. As you can see no attempt has been made to censor or remove your comment, on the contrary we intend to leave it there as an example of how not to communicate with us.
In closing you are welcome to remain here and I hope you continue to comment and contribute in a civilised manner, however, leave the passing of information and intellegence on to us.
Nelson
Comment by dwpexamination — February 10, 2012 @ 9:04 am
‘Sheepishly’,…… Of course im going to come see the response, for the last hour, now much later on, ive avoided my emails, forgetting exact words and when i rant i have a period of self loathing in the fear of what i did say, how i said it.
In all due respects, i came back to appologise to both you and, the person whose daughter is in need of assisstance.
I am sorry!
My words were extremely over the top and, now calmed, i see other side/self, in black and white, as that of a very ugly character.
Excuse/reason? is the way i am, because of the overload of withdrawal symptomatic severity i undergo at any dose drop of the medication (toxic drug), as i also adversely react while addicted.
Dose drops esp, are when i tend to deliberate not reading anything that ‘sets me off’, due to the problematic ‘agressive switching’, i honestly have no intent to be so foul mouthed and abusive, only now i have calmed down do i respectfully apreciate the absolutely unacceptable language and manner in which i have presented here.
It dawned upon me that ‘you’ had changed dramatically (as to the realization it was not you maybe? And now i know it was not, i do feel better although that may not be right as a whole?, its an honest comment.
I have obviously made a bigger deal than the what anyone else involved here has made of the situational moment, however i never am to be so affected by something i may have misread, i do not personally believe i have at all misread and my opinion of it all there is over.
I thank you for not removing me from the forum/blog/site and am very humbled by that fact Nelson.
You have my total assurance that i will not ever be so rude and abusive as i have been.
To Joe?. My words were indeed spiteful sounding, wether i agree or not? Is irelevant, i am not excusing myself so much as to say i cannot help it. Because I probably can, as i said already, via not going online when at dose dropping times.
I am sorry for my unacceptable behaviour in words and aggressive intent, to hurt anothers feelings or have them angered is wrong. For that i am ashamed.
I respect the blogs topic and i know i have a tendancy to side track alot.
Please understand my flaw is only a trying to either help or explain when and/or where i can.
I will be extra cautious, here (site) when possible to not make the mistakes i have made.
Thank you for the non blocking me and for allowing my mistake to be redeemed in this way.
I doubt i’ll be coming by for a bit, not hiding, not leaving, just aiming to return when not so sensitive and not so susceptible to my demons.
Thank you again.
Comment by Sue E Sidal — February 10, 2012 @ 4:13 pm
Hi Sue e sidal, Neither Joe or I are insensitive and we understand some people have shorter fuses than others. We know most of this is down to meds, especially when they are messed with, so no worries. We rarely ban anyone unless they are confirmed as trolls or simply here to make trouble, since you dont fit into the trouble maker / troll bracket, stick around.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 10, 2012 @ 4:21 pm
Hello again,
Thank you both for trying to help in what, I am sure you know, is a difficult situation. I am still trying to fill in the dreaded ES50 form but my daughter gets so distressed it is really a step by step process. I understand how she feels it is complex and draining e.g. she sometimes gets incontinent when she has seizures but is so ashamed she cries bitterly when I tell her we have to put in on the form. One thing I really don’t understand is that we filled in an IB50 in August 2010 and received a letter from jobcentre plus in September 2010 informing us that the Award of benefits will continue and not be reviewed until 6th September 2013. Do you think the ES50 may have been sent to us in error?
Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2012 @ 11:01 pm
Hello Anon.
Yes put everything that is relevant on that ESA 50, everything related to your daughters health.
No the ESA 50 wasn’t sent in error, everyone will get a renewal sooner or later, the reason that she didn’t have to go for an assessment the last time is because of what you wrote on the ESA 50 and was the truth, so let’s hope they see sense this time and don’t ask for a face to face..!!
Writing on the ESA 50 that one is all right, will get an instant assessment and most probably zero points etc.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 15, 2012 @ 10:09 am