Dwp examination

ATOS will record your assessment

Atos will record your ESA medical

A campaigner has won an admission from the DWP that you can now ask for your employment and support allowance medical to be recorded for you at no cost. The statement, made in a DWP Freedom of Information Act response, reveals that Atos should make the recording and provide you with a copy. It is not yet clear, however, whether this will apply to disability living allowance medicals.

Harrington
Back in September 2010 we asked Benefits and Work members to email Professor Harrington, the independent reviewer of the work capability assessment, and ask for the right to record your employment and support allowance medical. Many of you did so. As a result, one of the recommendations of the first Harrington report was that there should be a trial of audio recording work capability face-to-face assessments.

The trial was carried out, but the results have still not been published and a final report is not due out until the summer, at the earliest.

Freedom of Information
However, campaigner Paul Smith has mounted a long running campaign via the Freedom of Information Act to win rights for claimants from the DWP and Atos. In a request dated 20 December 2011, Smith asked a number of questions, including:

“4)Why was the pilot study into the recording of Atos WCA assessments conducted using handheld digital recording devices when claimants are told they cannot record their assessments unless they have a professionally calibrated twin deck machine operated by a professional sound engineer, If a handheld digital recording device is OK for Atos why cannot the claimant use the same device for recording their own assessment?”

The response by the DWP was that:

“In answer to Q 4 the use of hand held machines was a pilot scheme. The pilot scheme was designed to test the concept of their use rather than the equipment. Provision is currently available for the recording of assessments upon request by the claimant to the office which administers the claim for benefit and Atos Healthcare. In these circumstances, Atos Healthcare will provide the requisite audio recording equipment, which will provide each party with a recording of the medical assessment.”

This is the first time that the availability of this option has been disclosed by the DWP. However, confirmation appears to have come from employment minister Chris Grayling who, in a private members debate about the work capability assessment on 1 February 2012, stated:

“On audio recording, we will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded. We decided not to implement universal recording because, based on the trial experience, people did not want it. Few people wanted their sessions recorded, and some said that they definitely did not. We decided therefore to offer recording as an option to those who want it. That seems entirely sensible.”

It is worth noting that the DWP are still claiming elsewhere that no decision has been made on recording medicals. In addition, Grayling appears to be speaking in the future rather than the present tense, whereas the DWP letter states that the provision to record medicals already exists.

DLA medicals
It is not clear whether DWP/Atos are adopting a similar policy towards DLA medicals. Where the medical is carried out at a medical assessment centre it is difficult to see how they could reasonably argue that DLA claimants should not be treated in the same way as ESA ones. However, the majority of DLA medicals are still carried out in the claimant’s home and the DWP may argue that it is not practical to issue sessional doctors with recording devices for home visits.

Other questions
There are still a number of other outstanding questions, including:

Will Atos health professionals be allowed to refuse to be recorded and thus prevent a recording being made?
Will the recordings be on cassette tape, given that few people still have cassette recorders in their homes to play back the tape.
Will claimants be allowed to make an additional recording using their own digital device, for convenience?
How will tribunals react if claimants wish to use the recording as evidence at an appeal tribunal. For example, will they try to insist on having a written transcript provided and, if so, who will be responsible for providing it?

Standard letter
In spite of these uncertainties, we believe that anyone who wants to have their WCA medical recorded should make a written request for it to be done. We have written a standard letter to be used when you are given a date for your WCA, which members can adapt. You can also make the request verbally if you are telephoned with an appointment, but you should still follow up with a letter. If possible send a copy both to the medical examination centre and to the DWP office dealing with your claim.

Dear Sir/Ms,

Name:
National insurance number:
WCA medical date:
WCA medical venue:

Re: recording of my face-to-face work capability assessment

I wish my forthcoming face-to-face work capability assessment to be recorded and to be provided with a copy of that recording.

I understand that Atos will provide the equipment and carry out the recording on my behalf. This was confirmed by the DWP Central FoI Team in a response dated 24 January 2012, your reference: VTR 2714-3878. This stated that:

“Provision is currently available for the recording of assessments upon request by the claimant to the office which administers the claim for benefit and Atos Healthcare. In these circumstances, Atos Healthcare will provide the requisite audio recording equipment, which will provide each party with a recording of the medical assessment.”

The correspondence is available online at:

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/revised_wca_handbook_revised_edi#incoming-246487

In addition, in a private members debate about the work capability assessment on 1st February 2012, employment minister Chris Grayling stated:

“On audio recording, we will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded. We decided not to implement universal recording because, based on the trial experience, people did not want it. Few people wanted their sessions recorded, and some said that they definitely did not. We decided therefore to offer recording as an option to those who want it. That seems entirely sensible.”

I would therefore be grateful if you would ensure that the facilities are available for my assessment to be recorded. If for any reason this is not possible, I wish to be provided with notice and an explanation prior to the date of my assessment.

Yours faithfully,

If you wish to give notice before you are asked to attend a WCA, for example by stapling a letter to your ESA50 then start like this instead:

Dear Sir/Ms,

Name:
National insurance number:

Re: recording of my face-to-face work capability assessment

If it is decided that I need to attend a face-to-face work capability assessment I hereby give notice that I wish to have the assessment recorded and to be provided with a copy of that recording.

I understand that Atos will provide the equipment and carry out the recording . . . etc. as above

196 Comments »

  1. Gosh | wish I had found your website before I went for my assessment. I would definitely have asked for my assessment to be recorded. I gained 0 points and am appealing. The assessment I had was full of lies, yes you have heard it all before!!! The Government are the Gastapos, and DWP and Atos are their cronies. It is sad that we have not moved on much from Hitlers regime of mistreating the vulnerable. Still if the benefits department expect me to work, even though I would be a health and safety risk in the workplace, plus waste an employers time by hiring me and then I would simply crash out on the first day and be back to square one, applying for sickness benefits. This system is crazy. Keep your MP up to date, write to David Cameron, let the Government know how you feel. The more people who write in the better, inform the newspapers. Hitlers regime did not last for ever, nor must this regime. We must fight to stamp it out and stand up for our rights and a fairer place to live in.

    Comment by Casimira — April 18, 2012 @ 12:07 am

  2. Hello Casimira.

    Actually they don’t expect you to work and that’s not the point of the whole rotten assessment system, the whole point is to get you/us of benefits especially the sickness, health issues variety of benefits.
    Our Fuehrer Herr Cameron promised the populas that one million would be taken of sickness benefits and he wasn’t kidding, he just forgot to tell the populas that he actually meant everyone would be taken off.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 18, 2012 @ 7:52 am

  3. We need to start a demonstration outside Downing street. We can not let this Government walk all over us. I realise a lot of people are too ill to be demonstrating and we are so often the people in society without a voice. This year 2012 will see millions of vulnerable people being taken off benefits such as incapacity benefit and the new benefit employment support allowance to be put on job seekers allowance whether we are capable of holding down a job or not and expect us to live indefinitely well under the poverty line when after paying bills we simply will not have enough money for food which will only exacerbate our already ill health. We need to find our voice and stick up for those who simply have no voice. Not only is the Government wasting money on wars and killing people abroad it is destroying its own population and we have to put a stop to this.

    Comment by Casimira — April 18, 2012 @ 9:05 am

  4. Hello Casimira.

    That’s one of the points I suppose, the Government know fine well that people are too ill to fight back and that’s one of the reasons why the disabled and ill get bullied.
    ESA is not new, it came in to being on Oct 2008, and to be eligible people had to go through this dreadful assessment, so it’s been going on far to long and it’s about time it ended with a new fairer assessment brought in as a replacement.

    People don’t complain until it happens to them, and that’s the real problem, nothing will be done until it happens to them..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 18, 2012 @ 10:38 am

  5. I thought I heard on the news and read in the papers that since David Cameron came into power and with the recession there is a target now to save the government money they must now reduce the amount of people on incapacity and ESA by 40% so I had presumed that it will now be a lot harder to claim sickness benefits because the Government have now impletmented these targets!!! They must be spending a fortune on appeals anyway. Besides why aren’t our GP’s, psychiatrists and, hospital consultants and specialists making decisions as to whether their patients can work or not after all they are the people who know us best!!!

    Comment by Casimira — April 18, 2012 @ 1:33 pm

  6. Hello Casimira.

    Why aren’t they ? that’s a good point, and a good person to ask is your local member of Parliament.
    You will almost certainly get the reply that ‘We are trying to save you from a life of languishing on benefits’ or some other nonsense statement like that.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 18, 2012 @ 3:09 pm

  7. Yes quite, actually a lot of us do voluntary work which means we can contribute to society without the pressures of work which are too much for those whose health is too severe so we certainly are not languishing and in this way we are not wasting employers time as unfortunately I have done on numerous occasions by going back to work and then collapsing and signing off sick for months before going back on incapacity benefit. Now I do voluntary work partly and partly supported permitted work under the supported permitted scheme of less than 16 hours in self employment( where I earn very little and certainly not enough even to pay my bills) so that I do not keep letting employers down as I have had about 7 jobs where I have become very unwell and let employers down in the past and that is not fair on them or me. After I was accepted for my last job I got a phone call from the occupational health department saying they were very worried about employing me because I had been honest when filling in the form and informing them of my health issues so here I am now having to appeal against ATOSes decision that I am fit for work and yet if I were to apply for a job,( which I no longer could attempt because my health is too fragile) they would turn me down on grounds of ill health so I am damned if I do and damned if I don’t!!!! it is halarious!!!

    Comment by Casimira — April 18, 2012 @ 4:22 pm

  8. Is this because you are doing 16 hours permitted (self employed) work under the permitted work scheme then?

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 18, 2012 @ 5:48 pm

  9. No I am doing about 12 hours on average which is permitted while on incapacity or ESA but I suppose they think because I can do that and a bit of voluntary work I must be capable of going into a working environment which is another matter altogether. It was oked with the benefits department and I had Oxfordshire employment service supporting me in the background and also the woman from ATOS paid no attention to what I told her such as collapsing in my bathroom after hearing about the interview with atos as I felt really stressed and must have had a massive panick attack and started wretching etc and going green and dizzy, felt I was dieing which keeps happening in the work place because my stress levels are non existent and I feel spaced out all the time amongst other things. She ommitted everything I told her about my health and just looked at me and said I was normal.

    Comment by Casimira — April 18, 2012 @ 5:58 pm

  10. I was just wondering what triggered their interest in you and thought you may have registered for the permitted work scheme which then alerted ATOS who called you in. Its difficult for me to understand your situation without a timeline

    cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 18, 2012 @ 6:55 pm

  11. Hi Nelson, I have been on incapacity benefit on and off for over twenty years with trying to work in between. I won’t go into the ins and outs of everything because a lot of it is personal but I have tried very hard to work and ended up at some point letting employers down. Four years ago when I had a very severe relapse in my condition I had to give up a job I loved where I now volunteer for a few hours a week and where my retationship with my boss is good and understanding but I stress it is on a voluntary basis so I can go in when I feel up to it. I discovered while sick that I had a gift for art and so started selling my art on online galleries and informed the benefits department. I first of all went to see a disability officer at the job centre plus who helped me by contacting a service called Oxfordshire employment service and they directed me to a financial advisor to help me with my tax return. As you can imagine art is very therapeautic for many people and especially for me who suffers from severe stress and constant panic tacks and ME in the past or post viral syndrome as it it otherwise called where a person suffers from extreme exhaution amongst other things etc which was caused by the epstein barr virus. I applied with the help of the disability adviser at the job centre to do this work on a supported permitted basis so that every thing was legitimate and so that I was not breaking any laws. The benefits department agreed that it was ok for me to do this work on a long term basis or for as long as my condition affected me enough for me not to be able to go into a working environment either partime or full time. It has given my life a lot of meaning as well as making a lot of people happy buying my art but atos presumably think because I sell my art which is very unpredictable and is very hard to make a living and as I can not cope with any thing else I obviously need enough money to live on but my health prevents me from taking on a second job so hence having to be on ESA which I am now having to fight to get back.

    Comment by Casimira — April 18, 2012 @ 7:13 pm

  12. Hi again Nelson, I forgot to say ATOS often calls people for an interview after a few months of being on incapacity or ESA and in my case at the first examination some years ago they agreed I was too ill to work but then called as they do anyway, me up for interview again after a few years and this time decided that I was fit for work but it really depends on who is assessing you because this examiner was not honest as I received my full report back and she basically said there was nothing wrong with me even though I told her loads of things which she chose to ommit from the report so if you do have ot go for an interview please take someone with you as I did not and if you can get it recorded that seems like a good idea.

    Comment by Casimira — April 18, 2012 @ 7:18 pm

  13. What appears to be the only pre-trial document produced by JCP (which DWP is trying to deny any knowledge of) states:

    PURPOSE OF THE PILOT

    “The purpose of the pilot is solely to test whether audio recording assessments is helpful for customers and improves the quality of assessments.
    There is no requirement to provide the audio recordings to Jobcentre Plus and they will not form part of the routine decision making process.”
    “There is no change to the WCA process or the decision making process with Jobcentre Plus.”

    HOW CAN A CUSTOMER USE A COPY OF THE RECORDING?

    “There is no real need for customers to request and use the recording of their assessment. The recordings do not form part of the Jobcentre Plus decision making process. This is unchanged by the pilot and the recording of assessments. However, customers can request a copy of the recording if they so wish in writing to Atos Healthcare at the address above.
    Both the customer factsheet and the consent form the customer signs confirms that the recording is only provided for the customer’s own personal use and must not be put into the public domain.
    Customers may choose to provide Jobcentre Plus with a copy of the recording. This could be:
    ▪ before the initial WCA decision is made;
    ▪ as part of a request for a reconsideration; or
    ▪ as part of a request for an appeal.
    Customers will be advised that there is no requirement for the recordings to be provided to Jobcentre Plus and Jobcentre Plus will not accept a customer’s personal copy of the CD.
    If the customer is insistent on the recording being taken into account as evidence, these will be handled on an individual basis and the customer will need to provide consent for Atos Healthcare to share this information with Jobcentre Plus.”

    There is sadly no indication of how this improvement in quality might be assessed. In a separate FoI request, DWP was asked if they track the obvious and most important KPI – the right-first-time decision rate. Their answer was that they don’t, they never have and they have no plans to do so. In keeping this vague, they believe they can say whatever they like about “progress” and nobody will be able to prove differently. They must think we are stupid.

    More importantly, let’s not forget why this is necessary. Would I record a consultation with my GP or surgeon? – of course not, because I trust them and they have never misrepresented anything I have told them; they do not have their own “agenda”, they share mine. Treating the symptoms of this mistrust might produce a quick fix for the short term, but the cause – the justified lack of confidence and trust – must be dealt with sooner rather than later. Of all the flaws in the WCA process, this is in many ways the most serious.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 20, 2012 @ 9:33 pm

  14. Readers may be interested to know I am gathering proof that claimants are not ‘offered’ the opportunity to have their WCA’s recorded. I recently posted a notice on the door of my local Atos Medical Services centre, informing people that they are advised to record their ‘medical’ & that they are entitled to ask for this to be done. The notice was removed immediately.
    A week or two after, I went in to the centre & asked the receptionist why they removed the notice I put up & whether they were intentionally keeping claimants rights a secret. She told me ” claimants are fully informed of their rights”.
    I’ve just had a request published in ME Essential magazine & already had three people contact me to say they were definitely not informed either by Atos, the DWP, in writing or in person, about their right to a recording.
    So Grayling is lying & Atos staff are lying.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — May 23, 2012 @ 1:04 pm

  15. Hello Andrew.

    Yes your right, they don’t fully inform claimants, it’s left to the likes of us to inform people of their rights.
    I’ve never seen anywhere any written evidence that ATOS tell claimants they have a right to have their assessment recorded, it’s em er a secret Andrew.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 1:33 pm

  16. When I asked someone at the DWP at Pitman way where you send your appeal form, about the possibility of having your assessment recorded she knew absolutely nothing about it!!!!

    Comment by Casimira — May 27, 2012 @ 1:07 pm

  17. A member of the DWP has rang me three times now,to conduct a WRAG phone interview. Each time I have been asleep because I suffer depression and am feeling very ill at the moment…I actually rang the interrogator back,late in the day. She knows I am suffering from agraphobia,as I told her..’How do you go to the doctors then?’ she asked. Someone picks my prescription up..Ignorant cow!!!!

    Comment by Juliette — June 16, 2012 @ 2:45 pm

  18. I have just had my DLA reviewed and the doctor made a visual assessment without ever seeing me. My own specialist was not happy at all. This was done to determine if I received the higher rate or lower rate of mobility.

    Comment by Kevin worsley — June 22, 2012 @ 2:23 pm

  19. Kevin…make sure you get your assessment report, you need to see what the DR at ATOS has written about you, it’s important that you get it, if you don’t ask for the assessment report they will not send you it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 22, 2012 @ 3:42 pm

  20. I have had a medical postponed twice due to asking for it to be recorded and they haven’t had the equipment there. I have another one booked for next Monday but today I received a letter saying that the recording equipment would still not be there but that I should take the assessment anyway as they can’t “put it off any longer”. Surely that can’t be right? I get the impression that it’s their duty to supply the equipment?

    Comment by Philip Cowles — July 4, 2012 @ 8:56 pm

  21. Don’t give in to them Philip – they must provide the recording. If everyone asked for this, it would cost them so much they will want to terminate the contract from the DWP! (And facing an even greater backlog of claimants waiting for assessments, the DWP will have to start doing accurate, unbiased & fair WCA medicals and more decisions will have to be based on the IB50 forms and reports from the claimants own GP’s.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — July 4, 2012 @ 9:21 pm

  22. Yes it’s the duty of ATOS to supply the equipment, if they can’t supply the equipment then you can suggest you use your own recording device and you will give them a copy after the assessment. I think you’ll find they produce their own equipment quite quickly.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 4, 2012 @ 10:48 pm

  23. Chris Grayling said in debate (Westminster Hall) on 0102 12 that:

    “We decided therefore to offer recording as an option to those who want it.”

    You can see from this freedom of information (at the bottom) request that Grayling admitted that the option to have the assessment recorded by ATOS has been available since November 2011 and to date that option is still available.
    Of course as you can also see in the second reply two months later to the FOI, the DWP have been desperately trying not to let anyone to know this of course. http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/110371/response/283730/attach/html/2/IR244.pdf.html
    The implementation of the revised audio recording methods was introduced in August 2011,
    with the first request being received on 30 August and the recording was undertaken in
    November 2011.

    http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=grayling%20said%20in%20debate%20(westminster%20hall)%20on%200102%2012%20agrees%20to%20audio%20recordings%20of%20work%20capability%20assessments&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CEcQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.whatdotheyknow.com%2Frequest%2Fcommencement_of_the_current_wca&ei=8tr0T4vjNqjK0QWNifGyBw&usg=AFQjCNE1dHCdObN76As5LuBrsl9F1X9C0g&cad=rja

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 5, 2012 @ 12:18 am

  24. Thanks for your responses. I have printed out a copy of the letter that this site has provided referring to my rights regarding having the interview recorded. Should I just turn up on Monday, show them the letter and refuse to proceed until the equipment is there?

    Comment by Philip Cowles — July 5, 2012 @ 7:34 am

  25. Hello Phillip.

    We all need to understand what is happening here, we have a right to have our assessments recorded, Chris Grayling says so and it’s on record.
    ATOS do not want to record the assessments for various reasons, and the main reason is they are too mean to buy some extra recording equipment, so they are telling people that it’s not possible to record and therefore you better attend or else.
    This is a bluff, but it’s serious, because it is us who get it in the neck from the DWP and not ATOS, so it all depends on how serious you are in demanding your rights.
    If you turn up for an assessment, and agree to be assessed, then it’s not your fault if they can’t supply the equipment, you have complied with their wishes by turning up to be assessed for capability to work.
    You might find this other FOI interesting as well http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/the_supposed_impossibility_of_re and if you look at the right hand side of the page you will see others that can help.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 5, 2012 @ 8:37 am

  26. I would suggest you do not turn up Monday. If you did turn up, they will try to persuade you to go ahead without a recording. Remember, they have already indicated to you they will not be recording so if you turn up & refuse to go ahead they will not pay travel expenses & may label you as refusing to have a WCA, & get your benefit stopped.
    Wait until they give you an appointment at which they are able to record.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — July 5, 2012 @ 9:52 am

  27. Er … more unsure now! I suspect I had better turn up for the examination, surely? The letter I received yesterday came from ATOS and has a return email address and name. Should I reply to that in some shape or form, perhaps including the ‘response’ provided on this site? Tell you what, here’s their letter.

    “Further to my last correspondence, I am unable to provide a date when the recording equipment will be available in the next few weeks. We cannot postpone your assessment any longer. Therefore, I would like to give you prior notice that your appointment on 9th July in ****** Medical Examination Centre will not be audio recorded.”

    Comment by Philip Cowles — July 5, 2012 @ 10:50 am

  28. Under no circumstances do you refuse to turn up for their fixed assessment, because that will give them the excuse to advise the DWP to sanction your benefits. This is what they would love you to do, so why don’t you comply and attend the appointment, whilst there complain in the strongest terms that your rights are being violated, you submit to the assessment under the strongest protest, and you will be informing Chris Grayling via your Member of parliament that they have refused point blank to record the assessment.

    The alternative is to attend, and announce that you will be recording the assessment yourself since they cannot supply the recording equipment, they will tell you that you can’t do that, and their excuse is you might upload it onto the internet, or fiddle with the recording to make them look bad etc (As if we need to go to that length to make them look bad).
    If you look at the FOI page I supplied you will see that someone has already done that, his benefits were stopped and he appealed against their decision that he didn’t make himself available for a fitness to work test, the appeal was heard on paper, the tribunal consisted of one person – A lawyer – and of course he sided with the DWP and disallowed the appeal, so the appellant appealed to the second tier, arguing that he complied with the wishes of ATOS and the DWP, because he had attended the assessment, and actually agreed to be assessed and only asked to record the assessment for an aid to memory.
    The second tier agreed and found in his favour.

    You can see Philip that it’s all hassle, but if you want to exercise your basic human rights you have to fight tooth and nail for them because they will not just hand them to us on a plate.

    Personally, I will be attending the next assessment, and I will inform them that I am doing so under the strongest protest, I am complying with their wishes, but I will remind them that if this assessment is not recorded one way or the other, then they will have to answer to the minister for work and my Member of Parliament, who wishes an update on my assessment as soon as possible (Wink wink).

    Meanwhile, send an e-mail to your MP and explain that they have refused to record the assessment, and are forcing You to attend a WCA against the Minister for works directive that you could have the assessment recorded if you wished, also mention that you will keep him/her updated on whether ATOS record your assessment on the day or whether they blatantly go against Chris Graylings directive. (Wink wink).

    Basically, ATOS are cowards, they are all cowards, only a coward would get involved in such a demeaning job like theirs, and mention to the HCP this is not the end of the matter and there is going to be comebacks via your Member of Parliament all the way up to Chris Grayling, talking like that with confidence can sometimes work wonders.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 5, 2012 @ 11:27 am

  29. If it was me, I would not turn up – because I have stood up to their bullying before & Atos backed down. A few years ago, I refused to attend an examination conducted by Atos, on the basis that I had proof that the previous one had been grossly inaccurate and my complaints ignored. I said I would attend an assessment if it was independent, conducted competently and fair. I was telephoned by Atos early on a Sunday morning, told I would be sent an appointment and threatened with my benefit being stopped if I didn’t turn up. I said go ahead. I got that letter, but in the same post, another letter written the following day, saying I did not have to attend after all!

    However, the posting from dwpexamination tells you all the right things to do if you do choose to turn up. I would strongly advise against having an assessment without recording it yourself, or at least having a competent friend write down everything that is said (demanding time to write the exact words down if the medic tries to rush you).
    Without a record of what actually takes place, they will be able to claim anything they want to suit them. You are in the right! And as the previous post points out, decisions that are so clearly wrong do eventually succeed on appeal. (I won a first tier appeal in February, on another benefits matter, & I’m still awaiting nearly £1500 owed to me & DWP haven’t even formally notified me they are appealing. My MP is now onto it.
    This system of WCA’s is slowly crumbling – with more people challenging & with the growing evidence of incompetence & corruption, not to mention the decidely unethical behaviour of the minister, it’s a matter of when, not if. For my part, I’m now flyposting info about the right to have recordings made & will do handouts to give out near the jobcentre. Unfortunately, I live in a rural area with low population so there won’t be much awareness raised.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — July 5, 2012 @ 3:39 pm

  30. Thank you again folks (especially Nelson) for the advice. I am torn and will mull further over the weekend. It would be useful if I find someone to go with me and ‘take notes’. Not a bad idea.

    Comment by Philip Cowles — July 5, 2012 @ 8:17 pm

  31. Email me a poster so I can put it on facebook for you. Kevin Worsley.

    Comment by Kevin worsley — July 5, 2012 @ 10:15 pm

  32. Hi there my name is Kevin. We all need to stand together on this issue, I am registered blind and will fall foul of ATOS via my DLA assessment. ATOS are purely focused on finding people fit for work as they have a vested interest shall we say. Their money comes from the government. They have a target to meet. They could not give a toss about anyone’s human rights or prior medical history. I am aware of one guy who has had his back injured in an explosion. His nervous system had been danged and hey found him fit for work.

    Comment by Kevin worsley — July 6, 2012 @ 1:01 pm

  33. Your 100% correct Kevin, and it’s worse than that, people with terminal lung cancer have been found fit for work, it’s unbelievable but true.
    Of course the whole idea is to force the numbers game, force us to appeal knowing full well that some of us can’t appeal because of the very nature of their illness, and at the same time use every dirty trick in the book to get the sick figures down, because that’s really what it’s all about…FIGURES.
    They don’t tell you that you are entitled to the assessment rate while you wait for the appeal to be heard, they don’t send you the ESA 85 so that you can submit a proper appeal by seeing on the assessment report what you are appealing against, when you phone them they offer every excuse to fob you off as well as deliberately give the wrong advice to create confusion and doubt, and now it’s going to get worse because in April 2013 all legal aid that helps will be withdrawn, and the assessment rate will not be offered at all, just the option of signing on for Job seekers allowance while waiting for the appeal to be heard.

    This is a Criminal Government, backed up by Criminal DRs and Nurses, and further backed up by a whole bunch of Criminal civil servants.

    I have just accused these pieces of scum as Criminals, but the bastards wouldn’t dare sue me/us, because they know we speak the truth.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 7, 2012 @ 7:01 am

  34. Hi its kevin again. A local broadcaster on BBC radio Merseyside was questioning a member of the government regarding the new assessment which will hit everyone claiming incapacity benefit now or the new ESA. The question was asked as follows: if someone is born with a disability or sensory impairment which will not improve, would they be re assessed. A simple question you might think. After trying to avoid the question she finally admitted that claimants would be re assessed. By the way GP’s have now come out against the new assessment. They are calling on the government to scrap the ATOS assessment. There have been some 32 deaths from people being found fit for work via ATOS. I suspect a member of ATOS actually reviewed my vision for my recent DLA assessment. Thats fine you might think, Only one problem he didn’t even bother to speak to me or examine my eyes.

    Comment by Kevin worsley — July 9, 2012 @ 10:23 pm

  35. She doesn’t have a clue, they can’t answer simple questions because they don’t have any reasonable answers, one of their fauvorite reply’s is the LAST GOVERNMENT LEFT US WITH THIS MESS and we have to sort it all out etc.

    Read (Below) the latest nonsense from Brendan O’Neill of the telegraph, this miscreant bangs on continually about free speech, especially where the media are concerned but want’s to deny that very right to disability campaigners, by the way he doesn’t call them disability campaigners, he calls them ANTI-WELFARE REFORMERS, anyway his article has backfired on him.

    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/brendanoneill2/100168469/this-exploitation-of-suicidal-people-is-a-new-low-for-campaigners-against-welfare-reform/

    And this is what the Government and this twit O’Neill doesn’t want anyone to see http://calumslist.org/

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 10, 2012 @ 9:28 am

  36. Hello folks its Kevin again. I have come across the the advice manual for healthcare practitioners competing medical assessments for ESA. (In other words the work capability assessment) It is on the internet. If you type in wca-handbook it should find it through your search engine. It looks a very interesting document as it sets out their guidance. Hope this is useful folks. I have a copy now.

    Comment by Kevin worsley — July 10, 2012 @ 7:08 pm

  37. Kevin, I’ve emailed dwpexamination with the poster as a ‘Word’ file, so hope they can get it to you.
    I’m sending a copy to Grayling, telling him that his name will be added next time I print some.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — July 10, 2012 @ 7:22 pm

  38. I’ve just had info from ‘Benefits & Work’ that Atos are continuing to lie & bully claimants. The Minister has said that if recording equipment is not available, a later date will be offered until the WCA can be recorded.
    Atos are telling claimants that the appointment cannot be put off indefinitely & therefore contradicting the DWP.
    I wonder if DWP are allowing Atos to lie to claimants? It looks very likely.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — July 25, 2012 @ 11:04 am

  39. well, eventually had my medical a couple of weeks ago. They wouldn’t let me record it, which wasn’t a surprise but I wanted it made known that whilst not refusing to take the medical I was doing so under protest. Gave them a couple of letters from this site with all the Chris Grayling stuff. Probably antagonised them! Anyway, never heard anything for 16 days until a text arrived earlier saying that they’d been trying to contact me for 3 days and will try for 3 more. Tbf my phone is a bit dicky and has been playing up but I would have thought that I’d be informed in writing. Is this normal behaviour?

    Comment by Philip Cowles — July 25, 2012 @ 6:51 pm

  40. Hello Phillip.

    There is no such thing as normality when it comes to dealing with these people Phillip, but your letters from this site will make them take notice, whether it antagonises them or not well who cares, possibly they are going to either tell you that they will record the assessment or they will tell you that if you don’t do as they say and attend then your benefits may be affected (The same old dross they always come away with).
    But the main clincher and will make them take notice and force them to give you their undivided attention and therefore take you seriously is anything to do with Chris Grayling and what he says.

    And I invite you to have a read at the letter below, it’s from the benefits and work site (And they get the full credit)

    Now this business of informing people they can’t record assessments is all claptrap, they know fine well that Grayling has gave the go ahead to anyone who wishes their assessment to be recorded can get it recorded if they wish. They are finding great difficulties in carrying out Graylings directive because they are too mean to buy more recorders, I heard the machines they use are expensive, costing £1,500 or more.

    By the way, the DWP and ATOS in particular read this site daily, they haven’t tried to as far as we know get the site shut down, but that may be because it is an American server who will not be worried about ATOS threats, the sister site they did try to shut down and had some success because the server was British, but we relocated the sister site to Iceland where the British establishment have no jurisdiction, in case you don’t know the Icelandic Parliament brought in a law allowing free speech.

    Hi all, i got this from Benefits and Work…

    copy away…

    A 2 page letter you can copy and to send to DWP/Atos requesting that your medical is recorded. This letter is also included in the WCA guides aboWord version may be easier to copy and paste.

    Dear Sir/Ms,

    Name:

    National insurance number:

    Re: having my assessment recorded

    I wish to have my work capability face-to-face assessment recorded and I understand that this will be done by Atos using dual recording facilities and at no cost to me, as has repeatedly been stated by the minister of state for employment, Chris Grayling. If recording facilities are not available on the date of my assessment, I wish to have it postponed until they are.

    Right to a recording

    In a debate on the work capability assessment on 1 February 2012, Grayling told MPs that:

    “On audio recording, we will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded.” (Hansard citation: HC Deb, 1 February 2012, c291WH)

    http://www.publications.parlia…..0157000270

    On 17 July 2012, in reply to a written question by Frank Field MP, Grayling stated that:

    “As part of this process we are also reviewing Atos capacity to provide recordings for those claimants who currently request one. Additional machines have been ordered. However a large scale purchase of machines in the absence of an evaluation of the process is not effective use of public money. Although there have been increases in requests these still represent only a small percentage of overall work capability assessments.

    “In the meantime, while Atos will do all that they can to accommodate requests for audio recording there may be times when the service cannot be offered, for example where it has not be possible to get access to recording equipment on the date/time of the WCA. In these circumstances clients will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated and offered a later date.”

    (Hansard citation: HC Deb, 17 July 2012, c783W)

    http://www.publications.parlia…..7187002668

    If recording facilities are not available

    If recording facilities are not available on the date of my face-to-face assessment, I wish, to be offered a later date rather than be obliged to attend an assessment which is not recorded, as the minister has said is my right.

    I understand, however, that on a number of recent occasions Atos staff have claimed that following revised instructions from the DWP they will no longer cancel appointments if it transpires that recording equipment is not available, in spite of a proper request having been made.

    Complaint to my MP

    I wish to make it clear that, should you seek to oblige me to attend an assessment without recording facilities I will immediately make a formal complaint to my MP and ask them to urgently ask the minister whether the statement he made to MPs on 12 July was truthful and, if so, why it is not being followed by the DWP and Atos.

    Right to written details of conditions

    If you seek to oblige me to attend a face-to-face assessment at which recording facilities are not available I wish to be provided with copies of any instructions or guidance issued by the DWP to Atos as to when they are permitted to decline to meet a request for an assessment to be recorded.

    In Upper Tribunal Case No. CIB/3117/2008, which concerned a claimant who refused to attend a medical unless he was permitted to record it, the upper tribunal judge held that:

    “It has not been established that the appellant failed to show ‘good cause’ for failing to submit himself for a medical examination on 22 October 2007.”

    The tribunal judge went on to instruct that:

    “The Secretary of State shall ask Medical Services to arrange for the appellant to be provided with details, in writing, of the conditions under which an interview or examination may be tape-recorded;

    “The Secretary of State shall ask Medical Services to offer the appellant a further appointment for a medical examination.”

    Should these written details not be provided to me I will seek legal advice as to whether I may have good cause to refuse to attend a medical. I shall also seek advice on whether I have grounds to seek compensation should I suffer financial hardship or emotional distress as a result of failure by the DWP or Atos to follow their own proper procedures, legal rulings or ministerial undertakings.

    Reasonable adjustments

    In some instances, such as where a claimant has difficulties with concentration caused by physical pain, fatigue or a mental health condition, it may be a reasonable adjustment under the Equality Act 2010 for the claimant to have the assessment recorded because they will be unable to take notes or properly recall what was said at the assessment.

    Should you refuse to allow me to have my medical recorded I will seek legal advice as to whether I can take action against Atos or the DWP for breach of the Equality Act. As a preliminary to that action I shall seek evidence of whether reasonable adjustments were considered in my case, such as inviting me to use my own recording device or postponing the assessment until a departmental device was available.

    Appeal hearing

    Should I be unhappy with the decision in relation to my capacity for work I will appeal the decision and ask the tribunal to make a finding as to whether the failure of the DWP and Atos to follow their own guidelines in relation to recording medicals should be taken into account when assessing the reliability of the Atos medical report.

    This letter is sent without prejudice as to any other legal remedies I may seek if I am refused the opportunity to have my assessment recorded.

    Yours faithfully,

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 25, 2012 @ 7:54 pm

  41. i foned atos today regarding my medical assesment thats due in a couple of weeks,i asked could i record the proceedings,they said reluctantly that i could not but they would if i requested but my assesment would have to be put back due to specialist recording equipent having to be put in place at the medical centre,ITS YOUR RIGHTS,ASK THEM THEY CANT SAY NO

    Comment by john — August 1, 2012 @ 9:31 pm

  42. i wonder what my next corespondance from atos will be ??????????

    Comment by john — August 1, 2012 @ 9:52 pm

  43. Possibly no further correspondence! I’m guessing that as more people request recordings, costing Atos money, they will just stop calling some of those people for WCA’s & they will continue to receive benefit. Atos have been given the authority to decide who to call for assessments, but I’d love to know just what the admin records show when they give up trying to get a claimant to attend, as happened to me (though my refusal to attend was not directly related to providing recording facilities).

    Comment by Andrew Currie — August 2, 2012 @ 10:14 am

  44. It’s the old story, the more you stand up for yourself, the less you get stood on.
    Not standing up for your rights with these people shows them you are weak, and the more they will victimise you.
    So it will come to the stage as you say, those who can’t be bothered demanding (Assessment recorded) their rights will pay the price.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 2, 2012 @ 12:04 pm

  45. It’s the old story, the more you stand up for yourself, the less you get stood on.
    Not standing up for your rights with these people shows them you are weak, and the more they will victimise you.
    So it will come to the stage as you say, those who can’t be bothered demanding (Assessment recorded) their rights will pay the price.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 2, 2012 @ 12:04 pm

  46. I received my ATOS medical date today for the 17th Aug, and was planning on taking my personal digital recorder with me anyway.
    But reading this, i will now write to them and demand my medical be recorded by them (will also make my own recording as a back up).
    What letter should i write to them stating this, as there are a couple of examples above?
    Im sure that being as rural as i am in Cornwall, there is no way that they will provide these facilities at my local ATOS centre.
    I want to go fully prepared for this medical, as im a fighter, and certainly won’t let the bastards grind me down.
    Any info will be greatly received.
    Will keep you all posted on my experience.
    PaDdy

    Comment by padDY — August 2, 2012 @ 8:10 pm

  47. Your supposed to mention it in your ESA 50 Questionnaire PaDdy, but you can still write and ask for the assessment to be recorded.
    Log in here at the forum http://www.dwpexamination.org and they will suggest the best way forward.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 2, 2012 @ 8:16 pm

  48. i just foned them up on the number on the letter and asked if i could record the proceedings,they said no but they could record it,they didnt ask for any reason just told me that my local examination centre would be in touch with a new appointment when they could get the equipment they needed to the centre,all in all if everyone foned them and asked to be recorded the back log would take about 20 to 30 years to get through

    Comment by john — August 3, 2012 @ 1:16 pm

  49. Hi, I am David Thompson and in my appeal I insisted that, because I wasn’t too sure of the “alleged” Doctor at my medical,( no medical notes or interest in my condition)That the DWP comply with Article 6(3)(d)* of the Human Rights Act and have him attend my tribunal so that he can be questioned on his knowledge and qualifications. To complete the appeal letter I wrote that if I didn’t receive an audio copy of the recorded interview I be would be making a legal submission on Abuse of Process / Power. They didn’t supply the tape so I put in the submission. As even a Government department are subject to the same laws as us I feel confident.
    *
    6(3)(d) compels the DWP to provide the witness for examination. As a side issue, the word witness covers both audio/video recording formats

    Comment by Anonymous — August 13, 2012 @ 10:02 am

  50. Hello…That’s very interesting David and something we at dwpexamination have been thinking about for a while now (ATOS HCP as a witness), good work mate, let us know how it all pans out.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 13, 2012 @ 10:27 am

  51. i found this site by accident, am so pleased to have found it. my husband was due to go for an assessment tomorrow for ESA for the second time. first time he got zero points we appealed and had our appeal upheld, comments were that perhaps the nurse who had carried out the assessment was not qualified to do so. she had omited so much of what she was told, ignored reports etc. was totally focussed on the physical exam. we were extremely concerned about tomorrow because of the omisions in the first exam. we were not aware that we could ask for the exam to be recorded, so even though it was short notice we took a chance and phoned the assessment centre. they said we were perfectly within our rights to ask for a recorded session but they were unable to do it tomorrow so will be rescheduling the appointment, which gives us more time to gather more evidence. we have also been assured that they will make sure we don’t get the same assessor. they did skirt around the question we asked about the assessor’s qualifications or experience of dealing with mental health issues. saying that all their assessors were trained.

    Comment by patsy — August 16, 2012 @ 12:02 pm

  52. Hello Patsy.

    It’s best if you get it recorded, they will still lie anyway, but at least you will be able to demonstrate they lied, the longer they re-schedule the longer your husband stays on benefits.
    As for qualifications ? they have none, their training consists of a few days in how to use the computer LIMA system (Logic integrated medical assessment) most of them aren’t even Drs and most are the dross of Europe. That’s why they were evasive.
    You can get the best help here at the forum http://www.dwpexamination.org just think up a username and log in and start reading or ask questions.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 16, 2012 @ 1:15 pm

  53. Hi Patsy, You should start by asking the interviewer to give their name and status ‘for the record’.

    You should make certain that the Nurse/Doctor understands why you think you are there by insisting that he / she reads your medical records and confirms that has been done on the tape recording.
    Alternatively, tape it yourself or take your own notes. Plainly, they are either acting as medical professionals or as something else. Which?
    Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

    Comment by davidalanthompson2003@gmail.com — August 16, 2012 @ 1:30 pm

  54. Hi, Don’t forget that as professionals they have a regulatory body overseeing their contact with the public.
    If they are seeing you as a “medical examiner” they owe you a Duty Of Care and so are subject to having their actions scrutinised by their governing body.
    Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

    Comment by davidalanthompson2003@gmail.com — August 16, 2012 @ 1:42 pm

  55. Quite correct If it is a nurse who examines you and you are not satisfied simply inform the royal college of nursing. Explain your concerns and or complaint. If it is a doctor then contact the General Medical Council and submit your concerns or complaint.

    Comment by Kevin worsley — August 21, 2012 @ 2:43 pm

  56. I complained to the GMC (several years ago now) but they chose to cover up WCA inaccuracies. They told me 22 factual errors in a medical was not sufficient to warrant an investigation into a doctor’s competence! They would not tell me how many mistakes would be necessary to prompt concern. I have more recently heard that the doctor in question is one of those recently investigated. So it seems that the GMC will ignore complaints until it becomes necessary due to increasing public pressure.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — August 21, 2012 @ 5:15 pm

  57. Now your beginning to see what it’s all about Andrew, shocking isn’t it ? your not alone, it came as a dreadful shock to me too.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 21, 2012 @ 9:33 pm

  58. Regarding Comment by Andrew Currie — May 23, 2012
    Comment Number 14.

    My wife is due to go for a medical and i sent a letter in with the form asking for a home assesment and if this was not possible i want the Assesment recorded on the grounds that the last 2 times she has been knocked of esa because of blatent lies by the so called proffesional examiner, we went to the appeals and won hands down, on the first occasion they were looking at the notes we provided and were comparing them with the Atos report. Because my wife at times cannot comunicate with people because of confussion and other things i had to speak on her behalf and they asked me ” why we did you not tell the proffesional doing the assesment about your wifes conditions, and were these conditions visible to the officer when she had the assesment as they are now”. Yes i said. “Then why is this not on her medical assesment report”, Because the lady doing it was not intrested at all i replied Case dismissed, clain awarded. The second time we walked in and my wife was so bad she could hardly walk ( dizzyness and confussion from a anxziaty attack) 2 mins latter we was asked to leave as the hearing could not take place because the evidence we produced and visual evidence was conflicting with the report.
    My wife has to go for a medical and we were not offered the choice of a recording even though i have requested one

    Comment by Paul Glover — September 10, 2012 @ 1:37 pm

  59. Keep up the pressure on them Paul!

    Despite over 3 months having passed since I asked Chris Grayling about the issue of informing claimants of their rights to record medicals, I’ve had no reply. So I’ve now written to the new employment minister, Mark Hoban with copies to the new under sec of state, Esther McVey, and to Iain Duncan Smith.

    The taxpayer is paying £112 million a year to Atos to carry out medicals – but also, another £60 million is spent by government to deal with the problems caused by their inaccuracy!

    Comment by Andrew Currie — September 10, 2012 @ 3:26 pm

  60. Hello Paul.

    They are doing that, deliberately refusing to record, even though it is your right to have the assessment recorded, they just threaten people with withdrawal of benefits if you refuse an assessment without a recording.

    It all depends on how far you want to stick with your rights, after all Chris Grayling himself has said we can request a recording and that’s sensible so any requests will be granted, it’s ATOS who cannot provide the equipment.

    We have seen people being refused recorded assessments and threatened if they don’t turn up, they didn’t turn up, so ATOS informed the DWP that they didn’t turn up for the assessment but didn’t tell the DWP the reason why.

    The person stuck to his guns and refused an assessment until they recorded it, the DWP then informed ATOS to arrange a recording.
    So you see Paul it’s how willing you are to demand your rights and how willing you are to stick it out.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 10, 2012 @ 3:44 pm

  61. The only reason for me requesting this is because of there lies. Also forgot to mention that my wife has arthritis and they wanted to examine her, this was about 2 year ago the examiner fisically made my wife cry because she was forcing her to do things that normally she couldnt do without extream pain, i did complain in writing about this but they didnt believe us because it was not loged on the report, infact she was in so much pain she halted the examination but when we got a copy of the report she had put down that she could bend and touch her toes stand from a seating possition without aid, rubbish.

    Question….. If i was to have a camra attatched secretly could i be in bother for not getting permition from the person i am filming because i am so pissed off, it really gets to my wife, i know for a fact that she is going to be bad tomorrow and i am dredding it, the thing is it lasts for days this is why i requested a home assesment in the hope it could help her.

    Comment by Paul Glover — September 10, 2012 @ 4:02 pm

  62. Paul, it would be totally unprofessional of the Doctor / Nurse who carried out the examination of your wife to do anything that could cause her additional pain or Distress.
    You must make a complaint to the BMA about the incident copied to your MP and DWP. ( if you want to email a DWP minister you will find an address on the CEO s emai address site )
    good luck, David
    Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange

    Comment by davidalanthompson2003@gmail.com — September 10, 2012 @ 4:22 pm

  63. Paul…If you had a camera attached would I be in bother…Tell me, what are they going to do about it, especially if they don’t know, if you tell them you have a camera attached then the assessment would stop on the spot though.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 10, 2012 @ 5:51 pm

  64. Having medical Tomorrow so will let you know what they say, i am not trying to cause any bother with them but its so anoying when you walk out of there and my wife is at a stage where she is shaking and vertually unable to stand because of the stress leeding upto and during the assesment and i try to reasure her that all went well then after a few week we have to go through the proccess of appeal and a drop in income.
    My wife is on the work related section and today we went for a interview, every one knows my wife by name in the job centre because she has been doing her best to get back to work even to the stage where she was supposed to see a gentleman regarding a job which she can do with her disabilitys, they also know that when she is out and about she needs some one with her at all time just incase of collapse (syncope) or seizure (epileptic) but more the colapse. I did mention today to ????? about the medical and i tell you, the people around who heard what i was telling her where and are disgusted with my wifes situation with these so called medical proffesionals, all state my wife should be in the support group, this is not because its more money but it stops the hassel of the interviews and there for less stress, they have stated that no matter what the outcome of the repport she will not be attending any interviews at the centre but insted will be conducted over the phone, i hold my hands up to them because they are so understanding and can see that my wife is seriously ill.
    I will as i say keep you informed as to what they say tomorrow regarding the recording and if not i have a camara of a friend who installs cctv and if no joy with the recording its david bailey at the ready.

    Comment by Paul Glover — September 10, 2012 @ 7:42 pm

  65. Hello Paul.

    They are so understanding because they are thoroughly ashamed that’s why, and no other reason.
    Yes please let us know how you get on, hope things turn out for the best, but as you say, prepare for the worst..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 10, 2012 @ 9:13 pm

  66. Right went to medical and it went quite well actually as far as a medical goes.
    We got there about half hour early so we went to the counter did the biz and sat down expecting to wait for a hour or so.
    After about 10 mins a voice shout mr and mrs ???????? from behind the counter so i went upto the counter and a lady asked if i still wanted the recording i said yes and she said she will have to re-book the appointment, she appologised prefusly and explained that they had only just seen the letter i had put inside with the form, i explained that my wife was in a right state which she was and she said (to my supprise) ” we know we have been watching her and the examiner is going to see her now then you can get her home”, i said thankyou and sat back down, the gentlman cam out and came over to us and asked if she was ok and offered a drink of water, he even held one of her hands while we walked to the examaning room, he said it wont take long but we have to go through the motions. Obviously your wife cant do any questions and asked if i was her carrer i said yes. He was really good, he knew about every thing on the form i had put down and did explain that all the things i had put were typical of her illnesses. Even the Addisons Desease he said was realated to her hyperthiroidism and hyperadrenalism which causes depresion wich relates to her Anxziaty which relates to her dizzyness / syncope and all these can cause osteo arthritis because onf the calcium levels,
    He realy did know what he was talking about, it wasnt like a medical it was more like a consultation, he stated he was going to recomend not seing my wife for at least 2 year.
    Now hopfully she will be moved into the Support Group.

    Comment by Paul Glover — September 11, 2012 @ 8:07 pm

  67. Paul…Thanks for keeping us up to date on that, your wife is obviously unfit to work, let’s just hope this guy is genuine, so I will keep my fingers crossed.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 11, 2012 @ 8:31 pm

  68. Paul,
    you must still ask for a paper copy of the medical and compare it with what took place while it is fresh in your memory.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — September 12, 2012 @ 9:31 am

  69. will be requesting a copy, infact i think they have to send us one anyway. As you say dwpexamination lets hope he was genuine, he did seam to be.

    Comment by Paul Glover — September 12, 2012 @ 1:15 pm

  70. Having waited 4 months & not had a reply from Chris Grayling, I emailed the 2 new ministers, Hoban (Employment) & McVey (under sec of state, Work & Pensions) plus IDSmith again.
    The reply below is from the ‘ministerial correspondence unit’ so is unlikely to have been seen by any minister. Perhaps someone who is a constituent of these ministers can ask for answers, or if you have an MP who is a shadow minister, get them to ask Iain Duncan Smith in Parliament.
    The conclusion of their reply appears to be ‘you have a right to an audio recording of your WCA but if it’s too much trouble or expense for Atos, you don’t have a right’!

    ———————————————-

    Dear Mr Currie

    Thank you for your further correspondence, raising issues arising from Government policies which are the responsibility of this Department. Government Ministers receive a large volume of correspondence and they are unable to reply personally on every occasion. I have been asked to respond, and apologise for the delay in doing so.

    In his first independent review of the WCA, Professor Harrington recommended that Atos Healthcare pilot the audio recording of face-to-face assessments to “determine whether such an approach is helpful for claimants and improves the quality of assessments.”

    A pilot was conducted during Spring 2011. The results of the pilot clearly shows that audio recording of Atos assessments would not improve the quality of assessments and there was only limited evidence of improvement in the customer experience for some individuals. Less than half consented to having their assessment recorded and a tiny proportion, less than 1 per cent, requested a copy of their assessment. There was no difference between the quality of recorded assessments and those which were not recorded.

    Providing an audio recording facility for all assessments would be extremely costly with no apparent substantial benefit or improvement in assessments. As a result, the Department has not implemented universal recording of assessments. Instead we have asked Atos Healthcare to try and accommodate requests for audio recording where a claimant makes a request in advance of their assessment.

    It is important to note that the availability of audio recording was announced at a time when only a small number of requests were expected and since that time the number of requests has increased significantly. This has put pressure on the ability of Atos Healthcare to accommodate all requests.

    The dual CD machines which the DWP uses for audio recording are a specialist item and are built on demand. As a consequence there is a lead in time of 4-10 weeks. Additional machines have been ordered. In view of the limited number of requests for recording, the limited funds available and competing priorities, the large scale purchase of machines is not an effective use of public money. Although there have been increases in requests these still represent only a small percentage of overall WCAs – equating to 0.18 per cent of completed face-to-face assessments for the period March – July 2012.

    In the meantime, whilst Atos Healthcare will do all that they can to accommodate requests for audio recording, there may be times when this service cannot be offered, for example, where it has not been possible to get access to recording equipment on the date/time of the WCA. In these circumstances clients will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated. Currently, WCA appointments may be deferred for up to four weeks for any circumstance, including the non-availability of recording equipment.

    Yours sincerely

    Goff Daft
    Head of the Correspondence Team

    Comment by Andrew Currie — September 12, 2012 @ 2:13 pm

  71. Paul…They don’t send one, you need to request it, wait and see what happens first..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 12, 2012 @ 2:52 pm

  72. Well Andrew my answer to ATOS would be, if the increase in requests for a recording and they represent only a small percentage overall (According to Goff Daft and co), then since I’m not putting you out by my request, can I please have mine recorded ?

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 12, 2012 @ 3:00 pm

  73. You need to request a paper copy immediately, so they don’t have a chance to alter it or falsify one in the event of you complaining.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — September 12, 2012 @ 3:12 pm

  74. Andrew & dwpexamination, i am on it today but i am sure last time they just sent one.

    Comment by Paul Glover — September 13, 2012 @ 8:07 am

  75. Hello , update as promissed, got the medical report and the desision and all is good regarding the decision not the health of the wife, the report was a very good one ond it did state that she should not be seen again for at least 2 years, he also mentioned in the report that he was watching her on the monitor and stated they so her early then we could get home, they have now put her in the support group and to be honest she should have been in that group 2 year ago, but all said and done i would rather have her health. Thanks every one for all the advise and just to say what a good site to stumble on, 10 out of 10 keep up the good work.

    Comment by Paul Glover — September 29, 2012 @ 7:33 pm

  76. Regards Paul, just be careful they can be back any time to terrorise you.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 29, 2012 @ 8:37 pm

  77. Update on my questions to Grayling about recording of medicals:
    He never got around to it, so I asked the new ministers. I eventually had a reply stating that claimants can ask for recordings but admitting they were not publicising the facility & that there was not enough equipment & quoting ‘proper use of public money (!) the conclusion being that they would provide it if possible but could not put medicals off indefinitely & claimants were required to attend WCA’s without recording of them.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — September 29, 2012 @ 9:21 pm

  78. We need to keep the pressure up Andrew and insist we want our assessments recorded, we mustn’t give them the excuse there is no demand for a recorded assessment.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 30, 2012 @ 11:59 am

  79. can i video and audio record my interagation ……. i dont trust them or the david cameron hitler regime …. instead of gas chambers that would cost money to build they would rather pressurise us into an early
    grave … or force people to jump off beachy head

    Comment by Anonymous — October 4, 2012 @ 10:52 am

  80. There’s no law that says you can’t audio record or video them, it’s just that if you tell them you are going to do it they will warn you not too, if you insist then they will cancel the assessment and inform the DWP that you did not comply with their wishes.
    On the other hand if you do it undercover ? then they won’t know, of course don’t get caught.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 4, 2012 @ 2:04 pm

  81. For several years, the DWP & Atos have routinely tried to mislead claimants by telling them that they cannot record their medical because it is confidential. But it is confidential between you & the examining medic. If Atos do provide dual recording facilities, it seems possible that it is Atos themselves who may not be entitled to hear the recording (the information the examiner enters on the computer goes direct online somewhere so effectively it is the medics report the decision maker uses). It might be an idea to warn them of this in your request for a recording. If they fail to provide recording facilities, you are entitled to use your equipment and I guess refuse to provide them with a copy. If you do provide a copy, charge them for it and remind them it is confidential & they cannot use it!

    Comment by Andrew Currie — October 4, 2012 @ 2:30 pm

  82. just got my resheduled recorded emamination for the 23rd,im going to fone atos the day before to confirm the recording equipment is in place at the centre,im not holding out much hope,a friend of a friend went to the same centre for his recorded examination last week,when he arrived he was told no recording equipment was in place and he had to have the examination anyway

    Comment by john — October 15, 2012 @ 9:46 am

  83. Hi John.

    They just claim to concede to a recording then when you get there you find it’s just a load of baloney, what a bunch of liars..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 15, 2012 @ 12:04 pm

  84. i foned atos call centre at 11am this morning to confirm that recording equipment would be in place for tomorrow at my examination,they said “YES IT WOULD BE”, its now 4.30pm just had a call from atos to say that recording equipment tomorrow would not be possible and they would have to reschedulle again ????????,who are these bunch of idiots ,my advice to anyone is once you have received your appointment saying you will have recording equipment in place fone them the day before and demand to know one way or another that the recording equipment will be in place or not, otherwise you will get there and no such recording will take place and you have to have the examination anyway,

    Comment by john — October 22, 2012 @ 3:55 pm

  85. Spouse recalled for further examination following the first being farcical I will now request it be recorded. I’ll need to wait and see their response and will update this reply when advised. Donblanc1.

    Comment by Donblanc1 — November 5, 2012 @ 1:50 pm

  86. Cheers Donblanc.

    Let us know what happens.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 5, 2012 @ 7:06 pm

  87. Furher to my last post can I just point out something new from Atos ,a friend just called them to request that her examination be recorded next week.they told her NO as she had cancelled a previous appointment and because you have allready cancelled once you cannot canncel a second time to have recording equipment put in place,my friend asked to speak to a supervisor and was told “nope”, this is obviously a new trick by Atos as I myself had cancelled a previous appointment before I requested my right for my examination to be recorded,all I can say is beware Atos will use every trick in the book to deny you your rights

    Comment by Johnthebastead — November 9, 2012 @ 2:36 pm

  88. Well if that was the case then they would just allow everyone to cancel then send out letters a few days later saying we can’t supply the recording equipment and since you’ve already canceled then you must attend or your benefits may be affected.

    Yes of course John it’s just another trick, thanks for bringing it to our attention..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 9, 2012 @ 5:46 pm

  89. ps my friend foned up atos again straight away and asked to speak to a supervisor to make an official complaint about the way she was spoken to by the person at the call centre,she was told a supervisor would call her back in 3 hours or less,obviously no one called her back

    Comment by john — November 9, 2012 @ 7:06 pm

  90. Well…would you call back John ? If you were in the business of messing people around, because I certainly wouldn’t..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 10, 2012 @ 2:00 am

  91. so much for there customer charter then and your right to make a complaint,atos can basicly do or say what they want and there staff at the call centre can be rude and condescending to its so called customers and it all goes unregulated,its so bloody wrong,

    Comment by john — November 10, 2012 @ 11:03 am

  92. John…It’s hard to believe I know, but true, if the general public even knew the half of it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 10, 2012 @ 5:30 pm

  93. Yes I can confirm ask for a recording of your assessment puts a massive spanner in there works

    Comment by annon — November 16, 2012 @ 10:37 am

  94. and yes you can give your letter in on the day of the assesment

    Comment by annon — November 21, 2012 @ 11:39 pm

  95. When I submitted my ESA 50, it was accompanied by the results of an MRI scan and consultants reports. I have had severe degenerative disc disease with sypmtoms that are classed as ‘Red Flag’ for over 20 years. Six weeks ago I had the Atos pantomime medical and surprise surprise, contrary to the opinion of specialist consultants (what do they know compared to an Atos ‘Healthcare Professional’?) I’ve been declared fit for work, scoring points for a problem caused BY my back problems, but nothing for the back problem itself.I asked for the decision to be reconsidered and almost by return of post received a letter stating that the decision stood, so I asked for the full Medical Report.
    When the Medical Report arrived, not only did it contain lies, contradictions, and fabrications, but there were crucial omissions – do not underestimate the importance of omissions, there is such a thing as ‘lying by omission’ – but nowhere was there any mention of the submitted clinical evidence from the hospital. This, I understand, constitutes an error of law.
    Unfortunately for Atos, I have experience of conducting a legal case so since receiving the Medical Report, I have been through the DWP Medical Assessment Guidelines (194 pages) with a fine toothcomb and have also looked at the Decision Makers Guide. This week, possibly even tomorrow, Atos will receive from me, by Recorded Delivery, six pages of questions I want answering relating to this medical report and their failure to comply with the guidelines, including direct questions as to whether a particular action (or inaction) by them was undertaken in order to enable the Decision Maker to find me fit for work. It will be interesting to see how they respond.

    Comment by Ann Gree — November 26, 2012 @ 2:16 pm

  96. I’m interested in how they respond as well Anne, they are not used to people like you asking them awkward questions, half of them they haven’t a clue how to even answer.

    Omitting to mention the MRI scan and consultants reports is normal, they never ever mention on any correspondence that they have seen or are in possession of supporting evidence that can help you.

    So now you understand what they are trying to do ?, it’s a numbers game, the more people they can discourage by getting lowdown and playing dirty, the more people they can get off benefits. and that’s the whole reason for all this, to get as many people as possible of sickness benefits and on to job seekers allowance.

    The guidelines and the decision makers guide is all nonsense, they probably don’t even read them, you most likely know more about them than they do, ask them any question and they will scurry to the books to see if you are quoting correctly, then send you a letter refuting anything you say if you make just one mistake.

    The DWP and ATOS are criminal organisations, they break every rule they wish with the Governments blessing, con people out of their right to benefits, and sit and laugh in the office at peoples appeals and spelling mistakes, just dreadful horrible people.
    I believe there are some people in the DWP who are sickened but cannot say anything because they will get the can if they speak out, but one day this will all come to a head, and then we’ll see.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 26, 2012 @ 4:34 pm

  97. Looking forward to seeing there response Ann , Looks like they have got there work cut out with you, Honestly though i wish you all the best in your case, i do like how you state that they have not played by there own rules, BRILLIANT

    Comment by Paul — November 26, 2012 @ 5:08 pm

  98. Laugh at claimant’s spelling mistakes do they? Well, the boot is on the other foot now because despite the DWP Guidelines book emphasising the need for correct spelling and grammar, and that the Atos LiMA software has a rigorous spelling and grammar check built in, there were still spelling and grammar mistakes which gave me the opportunity to poke fun at them, quoting that what they had written must be right, because of the attention to spelling etc that must be paid.
    A woolly reply? Yes, I absolutely expect that and will press them again if that happens but if they do fail to answer my questions, imagine how that is going to look at the tribunal as I intend to include these questions in my submissions.
    I am not against the workshy and malingerers being kicked off sickness benefit as every one of them damages the cause of the genuine people, but this Atos WCA is a farce, and a damaging farce at that

    Comment by Ann Gree — November 27, 2012 @ 9:08 am

  99. Thank you for your kind comments Paul. I can’t deny there has been some great satisfaction in analysing their report and hitting them with awkwards questions after the distress and worry they have caused me. When I asked DWP two awkward questions – nowhere near as awkward as those I’ve put to Atos – about the report, they were completely ignored.
    I forgot to say in my previous post, I have also told Atos that in view of their contradictions, assumptions, lies etc, I will not consent to any further Atos examination unless it is recorded. They cannot claim they were not given plenty of notice.

    Comment by Ann Gree — November 27, 2012 @ 9:17 am

  100. Hi all,my name is tony and im 56.i have got a examination with atos on the 12 december,i suffer with a bad back and have done for years,i take medication every day for pain relief,about five years ago i started to suffer with depression “family matters” started this off and again im taking medication for this. In 2011 i was diagnosed with atrail fibrillation “heart related”, i was admitted to hospital and my procedure was a succes but again i have to take two different types of medication for life.
    After reading most of your comments i myself will get intouch with atos and request that my examination will be recorded.

    I will let you know how it all go’s when it happens. ATB.

    Comment by tony — December 3, 2012 @ 10:30 pm

  101. Cheers tony…Let us know what happens and good luck.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 4, 2012 @ 12:27 am

  102. ATOS will have to face justice eventually.
    http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/protesters-blast-tory-cuts-and-claim-1471720

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 4, 2012 @ 9:35 am

  103. [...] ATOS will record your assessment [...]

    Pingback by ATOS will record your assessment - DonHarrison.org.uk | DonHarrison.org.uk — December 6, 2012 @ 6:06 pm

  104. Thanks for the link and the template letter requesting a recorded assessment.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 6, 2012 @ 7:05 pm

  105. i had my atos medical last year, could’nt believe the lies, i really could’nt!!!, bits they added and nearly all i had said to them! wrote them a wonderful letter (with a few swear words added) and appealed, i won the appeal, but, i’m not kidding, just after i had got over that, 3 months later i got another letter to say they wanted me to go through another medical!! this time i asked for the medical to be recorded and so far, they have been cancelling my appointment all year, i have an appointment tomorow but will phone in the morning to ask if they have it as a couple of months ago i turned up and they never had it, they said they had ‘just read’ i wanted it recording and that i could have the medical now i am here, i turned their offer down! so here we go again tommorow, more throwing up in the morning and worry all over again! my advice is call in the morning of your appointment to make sure its there!

    Comment by louise — December 17, 2012 @ 10:20 pm

  106. no recording equipment today, didnt even bother notifying me it won’t be there either!

    Comment by louise — December 18, 2012 @ 9:23 am

  107. Louise.

    I do hope you wished them a very merry Xmas…lol.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 18, 2012 @ 11:23 am

  108. Louise.

    The longer they delay the assessment through no fault of your own the longer you attain your right to sickness benefits.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 18, 2012 @ 11:26 am

  109. Yes, but if you are on Income Support like me, at least if transferred to ESA I would be allowed to earn some money.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — December 18, 2012 @ 11:50 am

  110. ha ha! i didn’t think of saying that! am i right in saying that next april they are stopping free legal advice so we won’t be able to appeal? so the longer they play around we don’t stand a chance and also i have just read that the government want to stop benifit money and give us food vouchers!

    Comment by louise — December 18, 2012 @ 1:09 pm

  111. *benefit

    Comment by louise — December 18, 2012 @ 1:10 pm

  112. had my rescheduled recorded assessment today so foned up the centre yesterday to see if audio equipent was in place,”no its not but will be this afternoon” was the reply, foned up again in the afternoon “yes audio equipment is in place”, to my surprise when i got to the centre today it was there, how differant the examiner was this time to my last a assessment ,nice and courteous and really seemed to be on my side,still only took 30 minuets from start to finnish for the assessment to take place,will wait and see what arrives through the post in the next few weeks

    Comment by john — December 18, 2012 @ 4:00 pm

  113. UNBELIVEABL,I JUST TRIED TO PLAY THE CD I GOT FROM ATOS TODAY AFTER MY ASSESSMENT AND GUESS WHAT, ITS COMPLETLY BLANK,I AM ABSOLUTLY FUMING AT THE MOMENT

    Comment by john — December 18, 2012 @ 5:14 pm

  114. I know they plan to stop the assessment rate if we appeal, starting April 2013.
    So it’s no money or go and sign on, it’s hard to see someone totally crippled being allowed to sign on, it looks as if the scum want us all to die..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 18, 2012 @ 5:36 pm

  115. Whatever you do John don’t let them know until you receive the ESA85 assessment report, when it arrives then you can send them a letter denouncing them for the cheap skate swindling scum that they are..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 18, 2012 @ 5:39 pm

  116. Im not sure what to do now dwpexamination,if there is no recording on my cd they gave me surly there can be no recording on theres wich takes me straight back to square one with no proof of what was said,i had to sign for the recording twice,ones on arrival and once when the examination had finnished,the examiner told me that there copy would be sent to there head office in leeds and kept for 14 months then destroyed,if i fone them up tomorrow surly i can demand another examination because of there incompitance

    Comment by john — December 18, 2012 @ 5:54 pm

  117. John.

    You have that choice or you can bluff them and imply that yours is a perfect copy and funnily enough it’s clashing with what’s written in the ESA85, and so will be using the recording at a possible tribunal.

    Of course you will need to wait and see what their decision is first, there’s nothing to gain at the moment by telling them right now that you know the recording is blank, you can wait and see if they deny your benefits (Usually takes a week) if the news isn’t to your liking then you can decide whether to contact them and say ”Hey what is this, some kind of clumsy attempt to deny me a recording of my assessment ? this recording is blank etc” well I should be reassessed with a proper recording this time, what kind of stunt is this ?” ” Is it normal to hand out blank discs ? etc” on the other hand they might concede your benefits. so you don’t need to do anything.

    Play it by ear, be patient and use it to your advantage………Wink wink.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 18, 2012 @ 11:29 pm

  118. thanks ,thats sound advice

    Comment by john — December 19, 2012 @ 1:58 am

  119. Hi, I’ve been receiving DLA high rate care and mobility for over 10 years now, due to having a combination of problems (pretty much being left to “manage” these by the medical “professionals”) which have worsened over the years too. I recently was asked to renew my claim and when I did I was told they wanted more information. They wrote to my GP and then I got a phone call on a Saturday afternoon by some “Doctor” (whose name I couldn’t even catch due to the foreign accent) wanting to make an appointment for a home visit. My partner took the call as I was getting confused and struggling with a pain spasm. He told the assessor that they could come any day/time but that he couldn’t guarantee what condition I would be in at this appointment time (as my problems combine in various ways from day to day).

    The assessor REFUSED to make an appointment, and I then got a letter from the DLA saying I could have high rate mobility which would be reassessed in 2 YEARS (shorter time than normal) and NO CARE COMPONENT AT ALL. I wrote prior to this letter telling them about the assessor call and the problems it caused and how we were left not knowing what happens next, I then wrote asking for them to reconsider their decision. They refused to change their minds, saying it was based on a “Medical Report”. What report???

    I got a copy from my GP of what they told the DLA (unfortunately completed by the GP we had made a formal complaint against, which I did tell the DLA about). He was very minimal in his answers and didn’t even state that they knew my partner was my carer.

    Can they refuse to assess me and then base their decision on this? What can I do now? They want these financial changes to take effect as of 21 January, and we cannot afford to live if this money disappears. I don’t even know what a home visit is supposed to be like?

    Any help or advice would be very gratefully received. Thank you.

    Comment by Helen — December 25, 2012 @ 12:23 am

  120. Hello Helen.

    Any decision by the DWP that affects your benefits can be appealed against, so the best thing to do is contact your local welfare rights or citizens advice bureau and ask for their help, they will need to see all your paperwork to help you come to the correct decision.
    You can also get help here at our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 25, 2012 @ 2:23 pm

  121. Our problem on here is people only come when its time for there assessment and if they win it they don’t come back
    I had a recorded assessment 8 weeks ago I have edited the recording so no names show up and changed the voice so you don’t know if there men/women and its going on youtube win or lose
    If a few of us did the same we could help a lot more people going through this

    Comment by annon — January 1, 2013 @ 10:40 pm

  122. Hello annon.

    Your right, there are some people who seem to think their special, they don’t realise that passing the assessment this time or winning an appeal is only temporary, ATOS (Like the grim reaper) and their fabricated assessment reports will be back sooner or later, it’s just a matter of time.

    These very same special people just don’t understand that it’s the whole system that’s the problem, and we need to unite together to fight it.

    I’ve lost count of the people we have helped on here, who come back one day saying ”Thanks for all the help, good luck in your fight against ATOS and the DWP etc” as if it doesn’t apply to them any longer.
    I detest those type of people with a passion, I wish they would just go away and get help somewhere else, preferably with their new friends at the nearest local DWP office.

    Read my lips folks, the DWP and ATOS are out to get you, they are not your friends, Iain Duncan Smith hates you with a passion, he can’t stand the thought of anyone winning an appeal, in fact he hates it so much he has devised a way to stop you from appealing which is starting this April anyone appealing will not be paid the assessment rate or receive legal aid for help, that’s right, when ATOS fabricate your next assessment and they force you to appeal you may have to wait for up to a year or more before you receive any payment, and that’s if you can convince the corrupt appeal tribunals that you are really genuine.

    Like the contributory ESA fiasco, please don’t come to us and say you didn’t know and no one warned you, we are telling you now what’s going to happen and it’s just a couple of months away.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 2, 2013 @ 11:58 am

  123. Oh God, I feel so frightened about what this government is doing,,I,m really scared ,really depressed. not being around is looking like a better option, better than slowly starving to death ….please God let there be some kind of intervention…people are going to die…the government are evil..please help us..

    Comment by anon — January 16, 2013 @ 2:01 am

  124. We are all in the same boat Anon, there’s thousands in our boat, and we will all get through this..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 16, 2013 @ 4:34 am

  125. I suggest writing to any people of influence about your experience & feelings eg the prime minister (ultimately responsible). I will be writing to the new Archbishop of Canterbury who has already gone public with his (sympathetic) views.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — January 16, 2013 @ 10:10 am

  126. I wasn’t able to watch the Commons debate on Thursday & BBC iplayer coverage ended shortly into members responses to Michael Meacher – where Natascha Engels spoke – has anyone got any notes on what happened after or know where I can get this info – does this get transcribed for Hansard?

    Comment by Andrew Currie — January 18, 2013 @ 8:39 pm

  127. Hello Andrew.

    You can get that information on our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org
    just think up a username and log in and ask away.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 19, 2013 @ 2:02 am

  128. Well I had my atos medical this week and it was recorded please please please
    Take the advise off this site and ask to be recorded and my earlier advise you can ask when you go fist time as long as you print out the letter stating that you want it recorded and give it them on the day
    If the dwp want to start playing silly games with the disabled then do the same
    I won’t tell you the outcome of the medical I will do better in the next week
    It will be edited (so no names are in recording) it will be voice changed so you wont know who it is
    (For my protection and the docs) and it will be the first on YouTube a live recording
    If you don’t take the advice off this site you only have yourself to blame when you fail
    And believe me (you will) so don’t come running back here crying you have been warned
    And this great site is trying to help you
    Its time to fight back

    Comment by annon — January 24, 2013 @ 12:27 am

  129. Im sorry I just seen this post
    (Your right, there are some people who seem to think their special, they don’t realise that passing the assessment this time or winning an appeal is only temporary, ATOS (Like the grim reaper)
    As much as i hate atos the easy answer is to just turn up next time with your cd recording and refuse to talk this time and refer them to the recording in writing perfectly legal

    Comment by annon — January 24, 2013 @ 12:34 am

  130. Im a return helper yes it’s a pity more have not got the bottle to return
    Grow some balls people or you will be down trodden forever
    Sorry if your female please don’t grow the balls lol
    As you see by my last post its going live on YouTube I say to atos foook em

    Comment by annon — January 24, 2013 @ 12:40 am

  131. I read with much interest about Amnesty International,,If you are in fear of intimidation.starvation etc.when your life is compromised as a disabled person because of it….Also any embassy to apply for asylum….A bit far fetched you maybe thinking…..well try not to. we all know about the thousands of disabled /ill people that have died as a result of being passed as fit for work…Why should we live a life of persecution? There is an abuse of power going on right now .people are dying and we must do something….at best we might be listened to at worse we will be ignored [ it counts as abuse to ignore a person especially if they are in distress] but regardless, the media would be very interested..Amnesty hold their annual meeting this April…I think that the governments cruel reforms need to be high on their agenda…please sign the petition at..AVAAZ.ORG COMMUNITY PETITIONS..I understand a lot of people are frightened I am too..Is that right ? NO!! This Government has done such a good job on everyone with the propaganda .And this has created hatred from some of the population and that in itself has caused fear to many disabled people…I wish I could take that fear away,its a nightmare…And its also all against our human rights a right to a life…..And where there have been so many deaths we have a case….

    Comment by anon — January 24, 2013 @ 10:59 am

  132. I just rang asos regarding my examination on friday and requested it to be recorded, after telling me it was to late to ask i insisted it was my entitlement, the guy put me on hold. he retuned after a while and gave me an 0208 number to arrange an appointment which can be recorded. only other thing he told me was speak to monica but refused to give me a surname. on we go.

    Comment by ken cowell — January 28, 2013 @ 7:21 pm

  133. Hi Ken.

    To late to ask for a recording ? sounds like pure desperation to me, what a bunch of jokers..!!

    Time they were sacked, if you agree, sign the petition.

    http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/sack-atos-healthcare.html

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 28, 2013 @ 8:09 pm

  134. An excellent template by one of our members – COASTIE – on our sister forum http://www.dwpexamination.org to request a recorded assessment.

    here send the buggers this copy paste it into word print 4 copies sign and date all the same time

    1 for jcp who deal with your claim

    1 too atos where letter was set from

    1 too atos medical centre you have to attend

    1 copy for your records

    ring them first saying you want it recorded then back it up with letters send recorded delivery they should cancel give you new date BUT whatever you do dont you cancel appointment it will go against you always let then do the cancelling

    Name:

    National insurance number:

    Dear Sir/Ms,

    Thank you for your letter received

    Re: having my assessment recorded

    I wish to have my work capability face-to-face assessment recorded and I understand that this will be done by Atos using dual recording facilities and at no cost to me, as has repeatedly been stated by the minister of state for employment, Chris Grayling. If recording facilities are not available on the date of my assessment, I wish to have it postponed until they are.

    Right to a recording

    In a debate on the work capability assessment on 1 February 2012, Grayling told MPs that:

    “On audio recording, we will offer everyone who wants it the opportunity to have their session recorded.” (Hansard citation: HC Deb, 1 February 2012, c291WH)

    http://www.publications.parlia…..0157000270

    On 17 July 2012, in reply to a written question by Frank Field MP, Grayling stated that:

    “As part of this process we are also reviewing Atos capacity to provide recordings for those claimants who currently request one. Additional machines have been ordered. However a large scale purchase of machines in the absence of an evaluation of the process is not effective use of public money. Although there have been increases in requests these still represent only a small percentage of overall work capability assessments.

    “In the meantime, while Atos will do all that they can to accommodate requests for audio recording there may be times when the service cannot be offered, for example where it has not be possible to get access to recording equipment on the date/time of the WCA. In these circumstances clients will be told in advance that their request cannot be accommodated and offered a later date.”

    (Hansard citation: HC Deb, 17 July 2012, c783W)

    http://www.publications.parlia…..7187002668

    If recording facilities are not available

    If recording facilities are not available on the date of my face-to-face assessment, I wish, to be offered a later date rather than be obliged to attend an assessment which is not recorded, as the minister has said is my right.

    I understand, however, that on a number of recent occasions Atos staff have claimed that following revised instructions from the DWP they will no longer cancel appointments if it transpires that recording equipment is not available, in spite of a proper request having been made.

    Complaint to my MP

    I wish to make it clear that, should you seek to oblige me to attend an assessment without recording facilities I will immediately make a formal complaint to my MP and ask them to urgently ask the minister whether the statement he made to MPs on 12 July was truthful and, if so, why it is not being followed by the DWP and Atos.

    Right to written details of conditions

    If you seek to oblige me to attend a face-to-face assessment at which recording facilities are not available I wish to be provided with copies of any instructions or guidance issued by the DWP to Atos as to when they are permitted to decline to meet a request for an assessment to be recorded.

    In Upper Tribunal Case No. CIB/3117/2008, which concerned a claimant who refused to attend a medical unless he was permitted to record it, the upper tribunal judge held that:

    “It has not been established that the appellant failed to show ‘good cause’ for failing to submit himself for a medical examination on 22 October 2007.”

    The tribunal judge went on to instruct that:

    “The Secretary of State shall ask Medical Services to arrange for the appellant to be provided with details, in writing, of the conditions under which an interview or examination may be tape-recorded;

    “The Secretary of State shall ask Medical Services to offer the appellant a further appointment for a medical examination.”

    Should these written details not be provided to me I will seek legal advice as to whether I may have good cause to refuse to attend a medical. I shall also seek advice on whether I have grounds to seek compensation should I suffer financial hardship or emotional distress as a result of failure by the DWP or Atos to follow their own proper procedures, legal rulings or ministerial undertakings.

    Reasonable adjustments

    In some instances, such as where a claimant has difficulties with concentration caused by physical pain, fatigue or a mental health condition, it may be a reasonable adjustment under the Equality Act 2010 for the claimant to have the assessment recorded because they will be unable to take notes or properly recall what was said at the assessment.

    Should you refuse to allow me to have my medical recorded I will seek legal advice as to whether I can take action against Atos or the DWP for breach of the Equality Act. As a preliminary to that action I shall seek evidence of whether reasonable adjustments were considered in my case, such as inviting me to use my own recording device or postponing the assessment until a departmental device was available.

    Appeal hearing

    Should I be unhappy with the decision in relation to my capacity for work I will appeal the decision and ask the tribunal to make a finding as to whether the failure of the DWP and Atos to follow their own guidelines in relation to recording medicals should be taken into account when assessing the reliability of the Atos medical report.

    This letter is sent without prejudice as to any other legal remedies I may seek if I am refused the opportunity to have my assessment recorded.

    Yours faithfully

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 29, 2013 @ 10:31 am

  135. can anybody please tell me what a Tribunal is like, I have one tomorrow and am physically sick with nerves.

    Comment by ripfittonhillcomprehensive — January 30, 2013 @ 4:15 pm

  136. ripfittonhill…..Firstly, It will be a panel of maybe 3/4/5 people….They are there to look at the decision again…They are neither your enemy or your friend..They would have already gone over your request to change the decision..So you should not have to say to much..You may be asked a few questions,.Just keep your answers brief…can I ask you what your health problem/s are please..? The whole thing will take between 15 mins to half hour..I know its easier said than done but please try not to worry , tell yourself it,ll all be over and done with before you know it,and they see loads of different people per day..

    Comment by anon — January 30, 2013 @ 5:19 pm

  137. Go over to the ‘ DWP Score sheets and points make benefits ‘ page on the right hand side, and you can get a lot of information there, Richard is attending his tribunal today, and he may relate his experience, we are all keeping our fingers crossed for him..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 30, 2013 @ 5:35 pm

  138. A recent first tier tribunal I had recently was just the judge alone. He was friendly & understanding & handled the info better than I could. No-one attended from the DWP as is common – the current system means they have nothing to lose by stopping your benefit and forcing you to appeal – even if there is no justification for their action.
    I hope this helps.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — January 30, 2013 @ 5:37 pm

  139. I have cfs/me and fibromyalgia, I have regular appointments with a cfs/me nurse, who did write a supporting letter, but the DWP completely ignored it, filing it in the wrong postition in the bundle for the tribunal, DWP also state that It is acceptable to suffer pain and fatigue and working. Cfsn/me is not feeling very tired and having a toothache…..I am at my whits end.

    Comment by rubix — January 30, 2013 @ 6:04 pm

  140. Sorry for some reason, i am posting as rubix and fittonhillbcomprehensive…. i have no idea why :/ I will stick with rubix, as it seems easier to solve…

    Comment by rubix — January 30, 2013 @ 6:06 pm

  141. Thank you all for your answers. I am so scared about tomorrow, and feel assured by your comments, I was never told how long it would take, and after recently going through a divorce, am well aware that Judges can take some time. I did ask if i could take a voice recorder to the tribunal, as i know i would forget most of it and could not keep up with writing, as this has deteriorated so much over the past year….

    Comment by rubix — January 30, 2013 @ 6:45 pm

  142. rubix I think the Government have been pretty much successful in their experiment to make unwell people scared….its called controlling the masses…its been done before by different governments…They know that people with health problems especially serious and debilitating conditions like fibromyalgia,probably wont fight a decision..So well done that you haven,t thrown the towel in..,Fibromyalgia is a disease that is degenerative…made worse by stress..You might want to mention that the whole procedure has made your condition prone to more flare ups and that the pain is crippling…DWP are WRONG to state that it is acceptable to suffer pain and fatigue and working…health and safety for a start..Apart from that what planet are these idiots from? Deep breaths and blow out a bit at a time for tomorrow,,if you,re a female that is if not ask a female about labour breathing….will put you in my prayers..Good Luck.

    Comment by anon — January 30, 2013 @ 7:46 pm

  143. ..Thanks …..Anon, I will try. I am more worried about losing my temper to be honest, it has taken me many years of suffering to get help with Fibro and M.E, after reading the ridiculous medical report from atos I was firstly in tears and secondly furious. I am taking a friend with me to take notes, and also because she is aware of my condition, and it’s limitations… and as a mother of three children, I would go through labour daily rather than live like this ….I will always try to keep smiling, and make sure I turn away so they can’t see me crying…..

    Comment by rubix — January 30, 2013 @ 8:06 pm

  144. rubix..please try not to lose your temper..you want this done and dusted tomorrow so you can then draw a line through it and move on…Everyone knows that Atos lies Everyone knows that the DWP lies …Even the tribunal will know that especially if they watched panorama the other night…..my sister in law also cried when she read the Atos report it was full of lies..She has ms,depression..appealed and won..

    Comment by anon — January 30, 2013 @ 8:37 pm

  145. I will stay positive and my friend will keep me in check. I didn’t see panorama the other night, but will try to watch it on I’player thanks……

    Comment by Anonymous — January 30, 2013 @ 10:55 pm

  146. Thought i’d let you know after your helpful comments yesterday, that i had a partial win on my tribunal today. I was placed in the work related group, my cbt still think i should be in the support group. Does anybody know what i should do…

    Comment by rubix — January 31, 2013 @ 6:57 pm

  147. Hello..what were their reasons for putting you into the work group? Did they say? did you see it written down anywhere? I don,t understand why they,ve made that decision..Did you present them with a clear diagnosis of your health conditions?

    Comment by anon — January 31, 2013 @ 7:17 pm

  148. yes i did so i am not sure why they didn’t put me in the support group, although i was in the tribunal for half an hour and very uncomfortable, and the judge stopped to consider stating that it had been half an hour, and i had said that i could not sit for more than 15 mins before feeling sever discomfort, i wanted to stand and move in the tribunal, but was unsure how to do this, or ask for a moment to move around…..I don’t know if i can apply to be put in the support group again through the DWP… am not sure

    Comment by rubix — January 31, 2013 @ 7:28 pm

  149. Hello rubix.

    If your not happy that you weren’t granted the support group and you have a valid reason then you can appeal against that decision as well, it will not affect your WRAG so there is nothing to lose if you appeal. See your advisor on what to do next, and go here to our sister site as well, there are people on there having to do that now. http://www.dwpexamination.org
    Another piece of good news is you do not have to supply the DWP with sicknotes anymore, well at least until your next fixed assessment by ATOS.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 31, 2013 @ 7:43 pm

  150. hi, my brother is paranoid schizophrenic, he had to fill out the forms for atos and had a doctors letter, so after a couple of months he called them to find out when his appointment would be and today atos told him he does not need a medical assessment and have put him straight on jobseekers allowance, is this right please? that is all the info i have at the minute. thanks.

    Comment by lou — February 19, 2013 @ 1:17 pm

  151. Hello Lou.

    NO it is not right.

    First of all you need to establish who you were talking too ? according to ATOS they do not make decisions on benefits, so what an ATOS worker says on the phone is neither here nor there, have you got this decision – IMPORTANT – in writing from the DWP yet ?.

    If you have that decision from the DWP then they are trying it on, and taking advantage of his disability, they hope he’s all alone and has no one to help him and therefore will just leave them alone and accept their decision.
    But he can appeal against their decision to find him fit for work. And he can claim the assessment rate while he is waiting for the appeal to be heard, that is the law (At the moment) and there’s nothing the DWP can do about that.

    So write a letter to the DWP on your brothers behalf, explain that he doesn’t agree with the decision and as you are his guardian/carer do not agree either, therefore he wishes to appeal, please forward to me a GL24 appeal form, and a full written explanation how your decision maker and ATOS came to that erroneous decision, if an ESA85 assessment report was compiled by ATOS then please send it to me along with the appeal form, if an ESA85 assessment report was not compiled by ATOS then I wish to know how you can make a decision like that without a face to face assessment and without anything in writing from ATOS healthcare ?.

    I await your reply at your earliest convenience.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 19, 2013 @ 2:15 pm

  152. hi, many thanks for you’re speedy reply, i will get on to it straight away and i will come back and let you know how we get on, again, many thanks.

    Comment by lou — February 19, 2013 @ 2:25 pm

  153. Lou.

    One other thing I forgot to mention, you know the saying ”IF IT ISN’T BROKE DON’T FIX IT” and the other saying ” LET SLEEPING DOGS LIE” this basically means if you are receiving benefits from the DWP and they haven’t stopped those benefits then do not phone them or ATOS and put ideas in to their heads, because no news is good news.

    Phoning them or contacting them ? that’s asking for it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 19, 2013 @ 2:31 pm

  154. ok, thanks again.

    Comment by lou — February 19, 2013 @ 2:37 pm

  155. There is a reason to contact the Atos/DWP to get a WCA done if you are currently on Income Support or Jobseekers Allowance. Once on ESA, some part time earnings are allowed so those with health conditions that limit their capacity to work can at least earn a little to supplement inadequate benefit payments. I’m still waiting from mid December when Atos cancelled my WCA because they hadn’t got recording equipment.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — February 19, 2013 @ 5:27 pm

  156. But he’s already on ESA so calling ATOS or the DWP up to ask for a WCA assessment (Some have done so) or if the result of the questionnaire is in his favour or not when he is still receiving ESA and still getting ESA doesn’t sound very attractive to me.
    And since he has no intention of working – Due to his serious health concerns – then he will not be getting job seekers allowance or doing any part time work to try and supplement his benefit payments.

    I can only deal with and concentrate on one person at a time Andrew and that’s what I’m doing here. A one size fits all approach isn’t appropriate in his case.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 19, 2013 @ 9:40 pm

  157. brilliant information, did not attend first appointment , submitted letter for home visit from myself and doctor, my information folder is huge,,, massive, atos did not reply, hence letter from d,w,p why did you not attend, sent vast paper work evidence, getting very tiring, just had ct scan because of huge lump under rib cage waiting results, all other medical problems seem oblivious, severe nerve damage, synascope, scaitica the list goes on and on , because l was left untreated for b12 deficency for over 7 years,,, l will not let these people intimidate me,, asked for home visit and recording , will not accept anything less and they can even withdraw my benefits and d,l,a, we have to make a positive change to this..
    waiting for advise from solicitor maybe human rights can help with this .

    Comment by suzy. — April 17, 2013 @ 9:31 am

  158. i have read through all your responses we have a recorded medical today we have called and asked them if it is there the recording equiptment they have stated yes if we get there to find its not then we will ask for another appointment its our right under the human rights we are going to fight tooth and nail i will let everyone know what the outcome is we are palnning on having some fun many thanks this site has helped

    Comment by Anonymous — April 17, 2013 @ 10:36 am

  159. Hello suzy.

    They don’t want to go and visit anyone at their homes, and so they just don’t do it, they don’t care what you think and they don’t care what you do about it either. A law unto themselves is what the word on the street is..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 17, 2013 @ 12:33 pm

  160. Hi Anonymous.

    Thanks and please let us all know how you get on ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 17, 2013 @ 12:34 pm

  161. As its well known by all that Atos do not tell the truth with their tick box ‘medicals;.How do we know that a Atos Recording will not be messed around with? And should these so called ‘medicals’ be filmed as well.. I think so.

    Comment by teri — April 17, 2013 @ 12:43 pm

  162. They can mess around with the recording if the want teri, but it wont do them any good even if they could because you will have a copy on CD.
    The ATOS assessors do not know how to mess around with the recording with you sitting there watching them, their knowledge extends to place CDs in both trays and press play, when assessment ends then press stop.
    If the recorder didn’t say start and stop on there somewhere they would be f****d.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 17, 2013 @ 10:44 pm

  163. Ive had major surgery on my knee which went wrong,ive had it re done then it got infected, i have adult adhd and ocd which alone is a living nightmare depression anxiety been caused by it,just getting up stairs to toilet is sweating shaking pain yet i scored not one point,i was put on lower rate money till a tribunal then told my esa was canceled because i dint go to tribunal,when i phoned the tribunal they had sent the date and time to wrong address and i would have to ask them to set aside which they did and sent a letter to the esa stating this,ive phoned the esa up 9 times spents hours on the phone queue to be told every single time that the bennefits team would ring me back,this is over 4 weeks ago now i have lost 2 stone in weight and guess what they still havent rung,having looked into atos it seems they have 100 percent deniability and no percent accountability yet im starving to death in modern day britain when all the years i worked i paid my taxes there was no denying that i owed them and i would be made accountable if i didnt , PRISON, mr cameron when will you be held accountable and sent to ,PRISON ,for CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY

    Comment by STEVE SMITH — April 20, 2013 @ 11:47 pm

  164. Sorry to hear that Steve, but your finding out just as I did four years ago, that the DWP and ATOS are a law unto themselves, this is something we are fighting against, things will never change unless we become one.
    http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2013 @ 7:28 am

  165. Can someone tell me please,who would you recomend you get to represent you at an appeal. Can it be a family member or Friend. Im just not clear on this?

    Comment by Lisa — April 30, 2013 @ 6:01 pm

  166. Anyone can represent you at an appeal Lisa, but it’s best if that someone has some kind of Professional training, for instance a welfare rights officer or a member of the citizens advice bureau.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 4, 2013 @ 9:03 am

  167. I was called for a WCA in November 2012; I asked for audio recording and have had to wait until now – 6 months!
    The letter told me the name of the doctor doing the assessment, the same one who had made 22 errors of fact in my previous WCA in 2006 and who I had complained about to Atos & the DWP. I had no admission of fault or apology at that time, just ignored then threatened. When called for a WCA in 2009 I stated I would not attend unless the assessment was carried out competently, independently and fairly. (I have a back problem & ME/CFS so presumably labelled a fraud). They again harassed & threatened me but I stood my ground and was rewarded with continuing benefit without attending an assessment.
    Anyway, the WCA appointment i’ve just been to. Despite the concern about being seen by the same doctor, I did not complain or ask for a different assessor as previous experience has shown me that would very likely be classed as not turning up or refusing, resulting in my benefit being stopped.
    Receptionist checked my ID, got me to sign the form signing away my rights to use the recording & when I said I knew how unreliable their recording equipment was & that I intended to make my own backup recording on a digital recorder, I was told I was not allowed! Again, arguing would just get me classed as refusing. At the moment of going into the room the doctor came out and said he could not do the assessment as he had recognised my name & it would be inappropriate for him to do it. (Confirming the belief that medics do not look at the ESA50 form before the assessment).
    So taxpayers have paid my travel expenses, almost certainly the doctor was paid despite him not carrying out my assessment and I have to wait I don’t know how long for another appointment. What a farce.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — May 23, 2013 @ 10:38 am

  168. my atos problems began dec 2012, when l recieved esa50 , filled out in detail with added information re; my nerve damage, sciatica, loss of concioussness 3-4 times a day and lung disease, very detailed, letter from doctor requesting home assessment, because l cannot make the journey, and l requested a audio recording, as well as stating l will also be recording the assessment myself, requesting assessors name, reg number to check with g,m,c. that the assessor is indeed legitimate.
    they ignored everything and referred my case back to d,w,p, to which l recieved a letter asking why l did not attend assessment centre, sent all relevant info, to them recorded delivery, for purpose, and they accepted the info, and reffered me back to atos, 2months down line a assessor arrived without recording equipment, so my carer sent him away, after the assessor had made a telephone call to the atos centre to ask if this was indeed correct. which is was.
    l have written to health minister ian duncan smith, written back to d,w,p, and complained to atos.. revoking the right they have to my personal and medical records ,under the human rights act…because they cannot get the assessment carried out efficently and on dates recieved.
    l am employing a human rights solicitor to take my case, because l cannot handle this nonsense anymore it is very distressing and totally unacceptable.
    l am currently waiting for m,r,i, scan for enlarged adrenal glans and having many tests preformed this in its self is enough to deal with without having to deal with stupid incompedant people…..
    l will fight this to the bitter end and l will not let them defeat me.

    Comment by gggggghgghgggy — May 25, 2013 @ 9:08 am

  169. I like your style mate..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 25, 2013 @ 9:24 pm

  170. Good on you; remember there are thousands of us fighting for justice on this issue & we will win.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — May 26, 2013 @ 8:26 pm

  171. will keep you posted on progress, but slow because of illness and all medical procedures at momment, the sun news paper reported today another lady was declared fit for work, and she had numerous health problems atos signed her off , declared her fit for work, she died few days later, my sympathy to her family and friends, it is beyond belief,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, l donot know how the so called h,c,ps can live with their actions,,,,,,,,,,, they will all get what is coming to them , because we will all fight them together.

    Comment by gggggghgghggg — May 29, 2013 @ 4:37 pm

  172. contacted london solicitor, awaiting reply, asked if legal aid is available to deal with atos health care and can they be present if assessment is finally arranged with home visit and audio recording, been 8 days since my letters sent by recorded delivery to atos d,w,p and the health minister, no reply from any one yet,,, surprise ,surprise, even though atos stipulate 2 days for reply to them,, because l also sent their letter by e,mail to customer services,,, recorded delivery was just another back up;;;

    everything from start to finish is filed and on computer, it is beyond belief,,,,, and appalling that this company can treat sick people this way and the d, w p, and the government are allowing it to continue, will be thanking ian duncan smith the health minister for his ignorance re, my communication by recorded delivery,, detailed letter , this is not acceptable by any means,,, the process atos are using is alledged fraud , because they are making up the rules and lies as they go along,, . presently doctors or so called h,c,ps are under investigation, approx 10 of them…
    l am contacting david cameron next to ask why the so called health minister cannot do his job correctly, even though the answer is, the government just dont care at all, and they need to raise as much income as they can for the influx off refugees that are expected on the 1st of january,,,,,

    if l could return to my nursing proffession l would not be doing it in this country, great britain, its a joke,,,,,
    as is the n.h.s.
    hope the refugees will be satisfied with the service they are going to get,,,,,,
    we are the minority now and it can only get worse,
    sorry if any one is offended by any comments l have made , but its more than not acceptable….. its a breach of human rights of our nation……………
    will keep you posted re; legal aid solicitor. and if l cannot qualify for legal aid l will be using a solicitor, the best one l can find,,,,,,,,,

    Comment by gggggghgghggg — June 1, 2013 @ 9:06 am

  173. forgot to mention they have to meet demand for home assessments, when you are in tremdous pain you cannot possibly travel to the so called assessment centre, and be kept waiting for over your stipulated time, your doctors can provide a request for this to be made possible, along with a audio recording provided by the h,c,p, just make sure you you either record yourself or better still video it on your computer or phone, without arousing suspicion, because even when they do record they cannot be trusted and the recording will probally be never seen again by anyone,, atos do not have enough recording equipment to meet demand for home assessment audio recordings and dispite getting paid 360 million they cannot afford more machines, or afford to contact doctors for our medical reports they want us to provide these for them at the cost of approx 50pounds, to only be ignored,,,,, my e,s,a,50 was sent back in dec 2012 and l am still fighting them,,,,,,, crazy or incompetant,

    Comment by gggggghgghggg — June 1, 2013 @ 9:16 am

  174. right recorded dla they don’t do these ,ater telling a atos doctor if hes coming to ones home to bring a recording machine with him but alas he declined this ,and atos said they don’t do home recordings but argued the toss with them ,well lets stop and think this ones a emp report ordered by the tribunals has a extra for atossers me,sthinks but holding out I get tha last week new they coudnt resist that easy mucker of monies but anyways went to their grilling ,but also took my daughter along ,well arrived and was asked for letter wellno I haven’t got it she then says who are you how am I to now which to me I said im me mes and this she took rather well she didn’t like it so to my daughter who is he she tells such dragon lady that im mem,es her father so it looks like a stale mate but daughter shows my wallet to her no there nowt there young woman I thinks but then ther in black and white that thing of paper I must carry for the rest of my life well this dragon lady holds it up and says it will do I mutter under the breath little of no faith I am me me,s from dwpexamination.org jeff3 this to no avail well the show must go on so around the room does walk ah theres another customer sorry patient waiting for this show to start but gets to ask him are you or did you ask for it to be recorded he smiled and I done a jig around the room bemused I think he was but another one learnt this ask for it to be recorded they fib a lot well the doctor comes to a door ask for someone not really listening but daughter pulls me along to him I look at him staring into his eyes no joy I see but he holds out his arm to me shake my hand he says I look at him he at me and I say I don’t now you so why he did try again but to no avail then into the corridor we go and from his right comes another he says this is are you going to shake her hand well no notice of her on to the room well he starts he says to woman start the recordings but then it began half a hour ok now I am annoyed by it all daughter doing most of the talking has of my memory but he tried all ways to be mates with me ,but not having nowt to do with him on it goes I go walkies no no no you got to come back mr d on it went and on I got up t leave or drink some waters but then the final comes and he goes to press that button to eject this I take control of stopping him dead I look at him he see now that if its not finalised by pressing that red button well I would be doing something rotten but he new now im not altogether myself some of the time but take care I do come back down to earth at the right times brought to you from the journals of jeff3 from http://www.dwpexamination.org
    so always remember get it recorded has they will lie or tell porkies

    Comment by Mr jeffrey l davies — June 22, 2013 @ 6:49 pm

  175. My friend is due for a medical assessment tomorrow. There is nothing within the forms which they send out to say that you are entitled to have your medical examination recorded on CD.

    Comment by Chas — July 28, 2013 @ 10:33 am

  176. I don’t think your getting the message yet Chas, why would they want to tip you or your friend or any of us off that you/we can legally get your/our assessment recorded ?.
    Your going to have to get with it mate, NO OFFENSE and please don’t take this the wrong way, you obviously need someone to give you a good shake dude, because you haven’t got a clue.
    Learn what’s happening http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Listen to this

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 29, 2013 @ 3:03 am

  177. ah you try ti enlighten but some mak excusses there isn’t any room it doesn’t matter I always scribble it any were on the form has they will see it and yes I scan this also so I to have a copy of it just incase so no room just put it down I want it recorded no if no buts but please please do this has in the long run it can pay divends jeff3 from http://www.examination.org

    Comment by jeffrey davies (@jeffrey33333) — July 29, 2013 @ 11:47 am

  178. I have just been told that they do not have to record the assessment, and if I want it recorded then i will have to hire a specialist at my own cost. I was also told that they do not own ANY recording equipment and it is not obliged to do so.

    Comment by Kayleigh8 — August 12, 2013 @ 1:25 pm

  179. Hello Kayleigh.

    That’s just nonsense, they are spinning pure lies, they do have recording equipment, and Mark Hoban himself – as well as Chris Grayling before him – says you have a right to a recorded assessment if you wish.
    http://www.donharrison.org.uk/2012/12/06/atos-will-record-your-assessment/

    You will notice a template letter at the bottom of the above link.

    For more information on what to do next, think up a username and log into our sister site and ask our experts http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 12, 2013 @ 2:29 pm

  180. the fibs that atos tells we don’t we don’t we don’t well sounds like that Cardiff one we don’t well I had mine at Swansea and they did did did so mrs or miss your fibbing again but then atos does a lot of that jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — August 12, 2013 @ 6:15 pm

  181. thanks for getting back to me, I had my assesment and it was a complete shambles! I had took a fair amount of my average medication, and apparantly according to my Boyfriend, I was hallucinating as usual… I asked my boyfriend did she write anything down when I was saying things like “the carpet is moving and the walls are listening” but apparantly she didn’t… will the telephone conversation be recorded from when my boyfriend rang them and requested for recording equipment? Because If i have to appeal can we not say “well we did ask for it to be recorded and they lied telling us that they wasn’t obliged to do so” thanks x

    Comment by Kayleigh8 — September 5, 2013 @ 12:01 am

  182. kayleig8 I now its not funny but thanks for making me laugh but atos is no fun they tell lies all the time ,but with atos ones got to put it in writing has they will say na we don’t do it well now you now they fib they have you fit has a fiddle no doubt but sincerely hope they do put one into the support group but then atos doesn’t do easy most of the time please cross over to http://www.dwpexamination.org were like us there loads to answer each other on why and how its not costing owt its free supplied by jb so come across arm yourself before the shitte comes jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — September 5, 2013 @ 3:36 pm

  183. it’s okay! i find it quite amusing being told of all the things i say when i’m hallucinating! someones offered me a drink of water before and i’ve said “I can’t because there’s a hose pipe ban” but I bet they will try and say I am fit for work! can’t see how! I’ll go and have my self a look at the forums now, I don’t expect them to approve my claim but I will fight them, It’s a good job I’m not a shy person or they could just walk all over me. x

    Comment by Kayleigh8 — September 5, 2013 @ 5:12 pm

  184. I’ve eventually had my WCA, 14 months after doing my ESA50 form.
    The assessment seemed far better than my previous (complained about) one but there were a few serious errors. Not surprised then to be in the Work Related Activity group. I don’t know whether to appeal as I only have 1 month to do that & it seems unlikely I will get my appointment to see an advisor in that time.
    Can any one tell me in which category am I most likely to get proper, relevant support; WRAG or support group? (Self employment is the only practical thing I can do)

    Comment by Andrew Currie — September 30, 2013 @ 7:58 pm

  185. Hi Andrew.

    Log into our sister site and you will get help with your questions.
    http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 1, 2013 @ 4:06 am

  186. Just to say that I reckon Capita (doing PIP assessments in Wales, at claimants homes) are not rescheduling appointments unless a claimant phones to complain. I have had two home appointments where no-one has turned up and no-one has even bothered to contact me to let me know or apologise. It has been a month since I phoned them after the last no show, and when I phoned today it was obvious that another appointment had not been made – there was no appointment in the post – but surprisingly they gave me an appointment in just a week’s time. And I bet that means someone else will have a cancelled or postponed appointment. At least Capita call centre handlers apologise, something that Atos and the DWP never do.

    Comment by Andrew Currie — December 10, 2013 @ 5:58 pm

  187. ATOS ? Capita ? doesn’t matter who carry’s out the assessments, it’s the whole money making profit before lives system that’s wrong.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 11, 2013 @ 7:18 am

  188. look also at your local councils in wales labout inhand with crapita working to stop ones monies also taking your council tax monies and such yep crapita working for you

    Comment by Jeffrey Davies — December 11, 2013 @ 7:57 pm

  189. oh look another idiot perhaps a atossers please leave your name after the tone

    Comment by jefffrey davies — December 21, 2013 @ 3:14 pm

  190. I have read comments in regard to assessment must be recorded on CD its our legal right.
    If this is correct to date, no change as been made I will inform many person the right to have assessment recorded. However I have fallen for there lies and dirty tricks department. Told I can only claim JSA now and state that it is only temporary while I appeal or I will receive no Money? No assessment rate? Though I’ve read on this site; stumbled on. Still stand to date 2014 confused not clued up on this am sure many are not and I will do what I can to inform others if what was read is correct. CAB stated also to claim JSA and to request a review, also told by you know who! state you can not work claiming JSA until the appeal is heard any info on this for me and to help others if the recording issues still stands.

    Comment by Merlin — March 5, 2014 @ 2:29 am

  191. Hello Merlin.

    You can claim the assessment rate when and after the DWP have reconsidered and still find you fit for work, so after their reconsideration you can go ahead with the appeal, the assessment rate will be backdated.

    The demand that you sign on for JSA is a kind of blackmail, a threat that if you still insist that you are not fit for work then we will take our time and drag our feet to beat you into submission, which is do as we say and admit you are fit for work and sign for Job seekers allowance.

    Well the DWP say that singing on for JSA rather than holding out for the assessment rate will not affect your appeal, yeah right, tell it to the marines.

    Because when the appeal is heard the first thing the panel will ask is if you really are as ill as you say then why did you sign a document with the DWP agreeing that you were fit for work ?, they might even add, don’t you know that signing on for work and agreeing you are work fit is against the law ?.
    They might even look at that as an excuse (not that some of them need an excuse) to refuse your appeal.

    The choice is yours, I’m personally going to hold out for the assessment rate, but I’m not you, so as I said…the choice is yours.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 5, 2014 @ 2:04 pm

  192. thanks for your reply. I did go to the CAB who said claim JSA or you get no money? however I think your message rings true as I have thought this to, been told one can claim temporary JSA while you wait for appeal? Cab gave me form to hand in to Job Plus, to reconsider there decision. Suppose to sign JSA on Monday 6th. See what he states when I give him reconsideration form, on there decision to take me of ESA? Let you know what happens? I am clad you replied only just getting the hand of using the site how use laptop

    Comment by Merlin — March 6, 2014 @ 3:06 am

  193. Maybe the CAB advisor should have explained the situation to you a bit more clearly so that you can decide for yourself.

    It sounds as if the advice from the CAB was sign on because that’s all there is, well that’s not true, as I’ve said, when the decision is reconsidered by the decision maker (which can be any amount of time) and they have informed you of that decision which is that they will not change it and you are in their opinion still fit for work, that’s when you can indicate to the DWP that you will still appeal to the tribunal, and since you are appealing could you please pay me the assessment rate whilst I wait for the appeal to be heard.

    Look at it logically, they can’t demand you sign on if you have no legs or arms can they ?. So the other option is to ride it out until they get back to you.

    Remember, the rules have changed, if you wish to appeal then you must send the appeal submission to the appeal service yourself because the DWP will no longer do so on your behalf like they used too.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 6, 2014 @ 8:56 pm

  194. While there is no actual ‘legal right’ to have a WCA recorded by the assessment centre, it would be considered extremely unreasonable for them to refuse a proper request. If you have requested them to record the WCA with plenty of notice and if on the day no equipment is available you are within your rights to insist that they re-schedule to when they will have such equipment there. They may object and may not like you insisting but if they refuse, say you are not willing for the WCA to take place as you have previously requested that it be recorded. Immediately phone ATOS on 0800 2888 777 as soon as you can afterwards and insist on a new appointment. with recording equipment. You may be placed on hold while they check with your local assessment centre, but they will re-schedule, without marking this against you with the DWP. Should you secretly record them and be found out they will stop the assessment, but the first time this happens cannot result in your benefit being stopped. However were you to be caught secretly recording them a second time,it would be classed as a refusal to attend. Phone the DWP local benefit office on the day of the assessment, after the assessment, to ask for a copy of the ESA85 ATOS report and a copy of the LT54 decision makers report, and the name of the decision maker as soon as these become available. Put this request in writing by recorded post AS WELL to the job/benefit centre that handles your benefit normally – it is not unheard of for the DWP to lose or ‘mislay’ your request. It is also not unheard of for the DWP to not notify you which group you have been put in with your only finding out 12 months hence when the contributory benefit runs out. Also by making an early request for this information (which they have to provide) you firstly know asap exactly where you stand, and secondly are in a position to request a mandatory reconsideration as soon as possible. Should you then need to formally appeal, you will also have this information to work on. If you haven’t contacted the CAB at an earlier stage do so as soon as you have to ask for a mandatory reconsideration and well in time to appeal as though only about 2 in 5 appeals succeed, 9 out of 10 appeals supported by CAB ARE successful. You are also entitled to write to the DWP enclosing any medical reports and letters you may have and to restate your case as soon as it becomes necessary to insist on a mandatory reconsideration, as ATOS forward no medical evidence to the DWP, though you can present such and summarize your medical conditions .for when you attend for WCA. If at all possible have someone else attend with you for the WCA if only to have a witness present and provide some company for what is often a most stressful occasion, given that they make a ‘professional’ judgement on behalf of a Government Department of your fitness for work or group to be placed in, in terms of how many points they enter on their computer and that it may result loss of benefit or a reduced rate of benefit and may result in a legal process where you have to appeal to a tribunal. Try to be at least moderately courteous at the WCA regardless of how officiously they might treat you and have due caution about every single answer you give, sometimes the more so if they are ‘friendly’ or seemingly sympathetic, perhaps to try to catch you off-guard. Descriptions of an ordinary day should refer to days when your medical conditions are bad. Avoid terms such as it depends, or they will take the most favourable interpretation for the DWP, not for you. State categorically exactly what the effect is on worst occasions for you. Be sure to state conditions that they (very deliberately) don’t ask you about. Explain your conditions in sufficient detail that they cannot be open to misinterpretation. When you get the ESA 85 and LT54 you have made a point in asking your benefit office for, check these very carefully line by line against what you said, and for inaccuracies and deliberate misinterpretations the ATOS assessor may have made.remember that the ATOS assessor is not and is in no wise your friend and sets out to fail you and give the absolute minimum points they can. Lastly do not panic if the result is not what you might expect, get the CAB involved immediately.

    Comment by zaspero — March 29, 2014 @ 12:18 am

  195. A bit off topic but I think people will be interested to read the long forum comment on this blog (I didn’t even know the DWP had dropped Mark Hoban but not surprised having read this)
    http://theplastichippo.wordpress.com/2014/03/26/whatever-happened-to-paul-flowers/#comment-5580

    Comment by Andrew Currie — April 3, 2014 @ 8:41 pm


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