Many of our members have found they have scored “0” points in their W.C.A. and thus their Benefits have been suspended. As the suspension notice usually arrives on or after the claimants usual pay day, panic ensues, followed by a call to JC+ and advice from the Jobcentre to sign on for J.S.A.
Note, as soon as you know you have not scored sufficient points it is essential to contact your local C.A.B. or Local Authority welfare rights office and request assistance from them. They are under severe pressure at the moment so get your request in quickly.
This is not necessarily the case; there is another option, one which will give you some money whilst you seek reconsideration.
What is the difference between reconsideration and an appeal?
Reconsideration: - When a JC+ Decision Maker looks again at the ATOS H.C.P.’s report or any new evidence you or your Doctors, specialists etc provide.
Appeal:- When your case has been reconsidered by the JC+ DM and is sufficiently borderline to be passed to the first tier Tribunal.
What to do
When you receive notice of your suspension due to scoring insufficient points to retain your Benefits do the following;
Make sure you have printed off our contact sheet or have a pen and paper in a convenient and comfortable spot near to your phone before you begin.
Call jobcentre plus, ask the person you speak to for their name and contact number.
Go on to request a GL24 form and a copy of the ESA85 assessors report.
Tell the JC+ operative you will be seeking reconsideration and you wish to be put on the “Assessment rate” during the appeals process.
The assessment rate is the same as JSA and allows you to retain any other help with rent and council tax you were receiving prior to your benefit suspension.
When you have the GL24 and ESA85
First make a copy of the ESA85.
Read through the document carefully, you may have to pause during this part of the process as it can be quite frustrating to find out what has been written about you. If you find this difficult get someone you know and trust to help you.
Highlight every piece of information you consider to be;
Innacurate
Assumed
Untrue
In this order, using a different coloured marker helps.
If you are going to dispute a descriptor it is essential you provide supporting evidence from your own H.C.P. as the Tribunal will accept the word of the ATOS H.C.P. if you do not do so.
Next, deal with one set of descriptors at a time. Write out the descriptor you are disputing, next to it say why, then indicate what evidence you have to support your challenge.
For example
Descriptor
Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid can reasonably be used.
a)Can not either:(i) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion;
or
(ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion
I can not mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion. I mobilise using (state type of aid) and have been receiving treatment for (state disability) from (state specialist/ Dr/ etc) and have enclosed the following evidence to support my statement. Please see (Name evidence or give reference number).
It is essential you have supporting evidence.
By the time you have completed this exercise you may have received the result of the reconsideration, if the outcome is positive then you have no need to go any further, if it is negative the DM will inform you if he thinks you case can go forward to the first tier tribunal and you should continue checking and double checking your ESA85 form for errors in preparation for your appeal
Note: The space provided for your request on the GL24 form is deliberately small, therefor if you want to go into detail please fell free to continue on additional sheets. It is essential you write your name, the date and your N.I. No at the top of each additional page and numbers them thus (in this example there are 5 additional pages) Page 1 of 5 , 2 of 5, 3 of 5 numbering each page accordingly
Example
Additional Information
Fred Blogs
N.I. No AB 12 34 56 C
Date 01/01/12
Page 1 of 5
A letter has just arrived from ATOS that tell me I scored zero points on the back to work examination.
I contacted the Job Centre and spoke to someone about my case. I got this persons name, and asked for a copy of my results of the back to work medical.
How long should it be before I am supplied with the record of the examination?
Do I need this document to challenge this report( ESA85)
Do I need to contact DWP to be put on the “Assessment rate” during the appeals process?
I have got over 40 years of paying taxes, and having a regular wage each week, and its difficult wandering through this mine field of claiming benefits.
This site has been of great help on my trail into the unknown.
Ascot………………………………………………………………….
Comment by Ascot — January 19, 2012 @ 12:33 pm
Hello Ascot.
The only document you will receive is the ESA 85 that’s the functional assessment report, obviously you are appealing so ask for the GL 24 form that’s the official appeal form, make your appeal and add at the bottom that you would like to be paid at the assessment rate whilst waiting for the appeal to be heard (do not rely on phone calls to muppets), it’s best if you wait for the ESA 85 report before you appeal (can vary, sometimes next day, sometimes weeks) because how do you know what you are appealing against if you do not see the report.
Wandering through the minefield of benefits is daunting and can be a challenge for any single person that’s why lots of different opinions can instill you with more confidence and you can get that here http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ glad we could help.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 19, 2012 @ 2:25 pm
Thank you for the swift reply, if possible I will post again should I have problems with the system.
What happens if the month is up and they have not sent me the ESA85 form.?
I am on day 4 of the 1 moth count down.
When I make a call to the DWP, I make written notes then transfer the notes onto an XL spreadsheet.
I find XL a good medium to play these people at thier own game.
Cheers again
ASCOt.
Comment by Ascot — January 19, 2012 @ 6:17 pm
If they do not send it to you within a month (Which is unlikely but not unknown) then you should have your basic appeal all ready anyway to send on, for instance on the GL 24 form you can write something basic like this.
I wish to appeal against your decision finding me fit for work, I believe my capacity for work is limited and will send the tribunal as well as your office a full submission when I finally receive the ESA 85 assessment report.
Please note, I wish to be paid the assessment rate whilst waiting for the appeal to be heard.
The reason I advocate letting them know you will send a copy on to the tribunal service as well as the DWP office is because they may just send on the GL 24 to the tribunal and bin the rest, we are dealing with potential crooks here, so stay safe.
Make up your own words and your own way to express it, but the main point is that since they haven’t sent you the report and you need the report to forward a full submission that challenges all the descriptors that concern your health problems as well as keeping to their I month guidline then a short submission will get the ball rolling and keep you safe, they have no excuse to delay your money for instance.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 19, 2012 @ 7:19 pm
Thank you for your advice,.
I am glad you are packing my parachute.
ASCOT
Comment by Ascot — January 20, 2012 @ 2:26 pm
If the DWP throw you out that plane without a parachute, you can always do a James Bond and grab my legs..!!
CHEERS.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 20, 2012 @ 3:09 pm
A big 10/4 on that one amigo
Comment by Anonymous — January 20, 2012 @ 3:31 pm
When I went for my so called back to work medical, is it up to me to bring my GP notes to this exam, or should ATOS request the notes for themslves?
Comment by Anonymous — January 23, 2012 @ 7:20 pm
Hi Anon.
ATOS will not request anything that will help you, so you must take any medical evidence you have with you, remember they are not calling it a medical assessment anymore, they are calling it a functional assessment, so when you show your medical reports they will probably do one of two things, either photocopy it and if they do make sure you get it back, or tell you there’s no need to look at it because it is not a medical but a functional assessment, in other words it’s not your health condition they claim they are going to look at, but what your health condition allows you to do (Remember it’s not what you can’t do, but what you can do) and this will be the criteria that decides whether you are fit for work (any work) or unfit for work.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 23, 2012 @ 8:25 pm
ASCOT
What is the difference between the ESA65 03/11 form and the ESA85 form?
Comment by Anonymous — January 24, 2012 @ 12:12 pm
ASCOT.
Why does it take 3 telephone call to the DWP to have them send me a copy of the ESA85 form.
I have spoken to 3 people and hey promised me the world and I am still waiting for this document.
As you all know, I have 28 days in which to formulate my response to my so called ATOS crib sheet, so I can appeal against ATOS results.
How would I go about complaining about this state of affairs.
Comment by Anonymous — January 26, 2012 @ 1:36 pm
Hello Anonymous.
Because the people you were talking too are in a call centre, and don’t know their arse from their elbow, you can complain by letter to the office who deals with your claim, and ask again could you please forward me my ESA 85 report, because as you are aware I am appealing against your decision to find me fit for work.
Whether you get the report or not, depends on whose eyes your letter rests on, phoning and entertaining minimum wage muppets will get you nowhere.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 26, 2012 @ 2:46 pm
During this so called assessment, I could not pick up a pound coin between my legs, or squat on the floor,.
I could not do this as it might have set by lower back to cause me pain. My wife then had to take my shoes and socks off cos I could not do this due to the reasons above.
Shen then helped me onto a table, and off again after being groped.
She then had to help me off the table and put me soxs and shoes on again.
Two actions were high scoring but get no mention on the ESA65 Form, so I end up zero points.
ASCOT
Comment by Anonymous — January 27, 2012 @ 12:02 am
Anonymous or ASCOT.
Can’t quite make out which one you are, anyway on your ESA 85 (I have never heard of an ESA 65) it should say that you had to have help to get on the table because most people even badly crippled can at least slither on, since you demonstrated you need help and it doesn’t specifically say it then you can use that in your appeal. If it says instead that you got on the table to be groped on your own initiative and without help from anyone then you can also use that in your appeal, after all you have a witness, it’s difficult to see how the Dr can say you got on there by yourself when clearly that’s just not true because your wife helped you on.
If you look at your ESA 85 report and study it closely you will see lot’s of mistakes along the same lines.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 27, 2012 @ 4:46 am
ASCOT
When I got my ESA85, it told me I was an engineer and was made redundant because of Health and sickness problems.
Guess what, I took the money on my own free will. I worked in the transport industry.
How can I use this lie to my advantage.
My appeal went in today.
Comment by Anonymous — January 31, 2012 @ 7:18 pm
Hello Ascot.
I don’t understand your post, in fact no human being would be able to decipher what you are trying to say, could you tell me a little bit more.
Thanks.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 31, 2012 @ 8:19 pm
ASCOT
On page 4 of my of Form ESA85 The HCP has written the following about my occupation.
” The main reason for leaving work was for redundancy, due to sickness, ill health and absence.
and that my occupation was an engineer.
When I left my job, I took early retirement at my own request and the only thing wrong with me was I had a cold, and worked in the transport industries.
I asked how I could use this information against them in my appeal.
They have got the wrong reason for me leaving work and the wrong occupation as well.
I hope this clears up matters.
Comment by Anonymous — January 31, 2012 @ 8:57 pm
Hello Ascot.
I see what you mean and thanks for explaining it, the HCP has lied on your ESA 85 assessment report by saying ” The main reason for leaving work was for redundancy, due to sickness, ill health and absence. and that my occupation was an engineer.
What you have to understand Ascot is that the tribunal/s are not interested in what ATOS say because they already know they are compulsive liars, they also know the reason why they make up tripe like that, the purpose of going to an appeal is not to demonstrate that ATOS are incompetent and compulsive liars because as I said they already know that.
The purpose of going to an appeal is to demonstrate to them with the aid of some medical support and along with what you say and how you answer their questions whether you are unfit for work and hence entitled to ESA.
You can do this by concentrating on the descriptors that you are contending and showing the appeal panel that you are unfit for work because such and such a descriptor let’s say the cannot walk 200 metres descriptor as an example, I said when asked by the panel in answer to their question can you walk 200 metres that I could not walk 200 metres because I had to stop and rest etc, so I got points for that.
I was also asked how long can you stand before you need to sit down, I answered that standing for say ten minutes was excruciating and I had to sit down for relief, I got points for that, I was also asked other questions which I answered as best as I could and at the end of the day I received 18 points and was entitled to ESA, it helps if you have some support from your GP which I did have and obviously helped.
That is the way to go and that is the way you will win an appeal, not wasting your time trying to proof the idiot you were asessed by was a liar or not. Remember the panel have a job to do and that means they have to take everyones reports in to account, even if it’s just for appearances sake.
Ascot it’s a game, play the game right and you will win with that medical support, start talking about corrupt DRs etc will get you nowhere (That’s for here and other blogs and forums and letters to newspapers and MPs), you could even lose the appeal if you don’t concentrate on the descriptors, take it from me mate because I’ve been there, read the proverbial book and worn the proverbial teeshirt.
Comment by dwpexamination — January 31, 2012 @ 9:31 pm
ASCOT.
Good Advice, it pays to read the ESA85 and what you get when you cast your net wide enough.
I wonder how many folks have been conned out of thier entitlementsts by the system that is in place.
Its a good job that youre about to offer proper advice on these subjects.
*****5star advice.
Comment by Anonymous — January 31, 2012 @ 10:28 pm
ASCOT
Do the DWP acknowledge the receipt of the GL24 form when you send it in, or a you left wondering if they have got the form?
Comment by Anonymous — February 1, 2012 @ 10:58 am
Hello ASCOT.
Another good question, and the answer is ”you are left wondering if they have got the form” if they do not receive the GL24 form or any form or sick note etc then after the deadline you will know all about it soon enough. Funny how all their letters of doom and gloom seem to reach us without any problems though…LOL.
By the way if you phone them to inquire you will soon find out by experience that they say anything to shut you up, the reason for this is because more often than not you will be speaking to the tea boy or office junior who doesn’t know his arse from his elbow.
An example : Hello I’m enquiring about my ESA 50 that I sent in last week ? (and after some security questions) he looks at a blank screen and says yes Sir according to our records we have received it and we will get right on it.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 1, 2012 @ 11:32 am
ASCOT.
I got my P45 the other week, but I now know that they have got my appeal, but they will not pay me any thing till I get a sick note from my GP.
Is this normal?
Comment by Anonymous — February 14, 2012 @ 7:33 pm
Hello ASCOT.
Yes it’s normal, get that sick note in as quick as you can, because they are looking for any excuse not to pay you.
By the way the idea of sending you a P 45 is to give you the impression that signing on is your only sensible option, so don’t fall for it, insist on the assessment rate and as I said the sick note is important because they won’t give you a brass penny until you send one in.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 14, 2012 @ 8:34 pm
ASCOT.
I have had a letter delivered today, they might want me to attend Work Focused interviews as well as sick notes.
I understand the sick notes.
What will they want to do with me at the Work Focused interviews. What are the pit falls to be aware of?
I am going to get the Assessment rate of ESA
Comment by Anonymous — February 15, 2012 @ 12:00 pm
Hello ASCOT.
The purpose of work related interviews is what it says on the tin, to see if you are in need of help in getting back in to work, everyone has to attend at least one, I had one two weeks ago and lasted around twenty minutes, I was asked what type of work I had done before, whether I had any future hospital appointments, what kind of work did I think I could do, do I have a driving license etc. As you can see it’s just basic questions and I didn’t feel as if I was being tricked.
I mentioned the so called volunteer programme where youngsters are working for these big companies for slave labour and I added that I didn’t think it was right that people should not get at least the minimum wage, her answer was well these youngsters have never had a job and you have worked before so you at least know what a job is, I answered well I still think they should get the minimum wage etc.
So if your illness or disability is preventing you from finding work then it’s difficult to see how they can really make a difference, especially when at least for the moment there are no jobs for able bodied people never mind the disabled and ill..!!
By the way you must attend an interview to be eligible for your benefits, but you are not forced to accept a job if in the unlikely event you were offered one.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 15, 2012 @ 2:58 pm
ASCOT.
Now that things are becoming clear at the DWP, I am now getting letters from the Taxation people, say that I owe over £100 for having the wrong tax code and wanting me to pay it back.
This morning I get a P45 with a tax code saying again that I might owe these people more money.
The sad part is the taxation people get my money before I do, so if i have under paid, its down to the Revenue people to get there act together.
Any views or comments?
Comment by Anonymous — February 17, 2012 @ 1:45 pm
ASCOT
I have now seen my doctor and been given a short letter, and a detailed report on the state of my back and the all important sick note.
How soon should I get my full appeal written and sent in,
As I am not a doctor what should I compare and contrast in my submission.
Comment by Anonymous — February 22, 2012 @ 6:25 pm
Hello Ascot.
You have a month to send an appeal in, and they can be strict sometimes so don’t send it in late, you can send in the sick note straight away, the sooner you do the sooner you will get the assessment rate.
When you filled in the ESA 50 questionnaire you will have given them certain information, you should have the ESA 85 report from that you will see where the HCP has formed certain opinions on your functional ability, so you need to have a look at the descriptors and see which ones apply to your health issues.
For instance you say you have a back problem ? then look at the descriptors regarding walking, standing and sitting, that’s two different descriptors, what did you write on your ESA 50 questionnaire ? can you walk 200 Metres without stopping for relief, or is it 100 Metres without stopping, explain on the appeal submission which one applies to you, perhaps you can’t walk 30 Metres without stopping to rest ? if so then put it down remember it has to correspond to the ESA 50 questionnaire. Then there is the standing and sitting descriptor, can you stand for five minutes ? ten minutes ? fifteen minutes before you feel a strong desire to sit down for relief, and when you are sitting down, how long ? can you sit for ten minutes, thirty minutes ? remember most appeals are around thirty minutes, if you don’t stand up for relief under thirty minutes at the appeal after saying you can’t sit for that amount of time then it doesn’t look as if you are genuine.
Comment by dwpexamination — February 22, 2012 @ 7:36 pm
Ascot.
I am at a stage now where the DWP has accepted my challenge of zero points, and have paid me from the time I lost my Incapacity allowance. I now get the appeal rate paid.
My appeal has been seen by my local Council benefit advisors, who have taken over the running of my appeal.
As a result to get the new allowance I had to provide a sick note.
This note will expire soon.
Can you tell me will I have to submit a sick note for every week until my appeal is looked at?
Comment by Anonymous — March 11, 2012 @ 1:29 pm