Dwp examination

Questions you may be asked?

dwpexamination forum now available at http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/

Here are some of the questions you may be asked during your medical interrogation  ’examination’.

Mental Health

Completion of tasks

Can he or she answer the telephone and reliably take a message?

When referring to ‘telephone’ the ‘Doctor’ will deduce you have and can operate a mobile phone, which you use for texting, chatting, making arrangements and for emergencies. the term ‘Mobile phone’ will not actually be used. That you can and do answer the phone when it rings, your motor and memory functions are normal and that you are not depressed among many other possible ‘stock answers’ he is allowed to use in his / her report. Apparently, answering yes or no to any of the questions you are asked gives the alleged ‘Doctor’ the freedom to be creative in their answer.

How do they know you have one?

How do they know you have one?

Does he or she sit for hours doing nothing?

From this question the alleged ‘Doctor’ will assume you can sit comfortably for longer than the period you have stated on your IB50, incidentally, if you stand up at regular intervals during your examination due to the discomfort you are feeling, he reports this as being able to stand for (and he times you here) for however long without discomfort. You can not win. He /she will also link this with travelling to the examination, either driving, being driven, bus etc despite the fact that you will have stopped several times during your journey due to the discomfort you were feeling during the trip. All from answering yes or no to this question?

Can he or she concentrate to read a magazine article or follow a radio or television programme?

They are still looking to trip you up here if you have said you cant sit for long periods, despite the fact that you lie in bed to read, watch TV or listen to the radio! They also deduce that you can read, which means to them you can manage your own finances, bills etc, letters, and mail in general, that your eye sight and concentration levels are excellent and in one email I received last night, that you can operate a computer without difficulty? Where on earth does it mention finances, computers or concentration in the question?

Can he or she use a telephone book or other directory to find a number?

Please note, a telephone directory can be heavier than a carton of milk, its another method of covert assessment, curiously as well as proving you can read it also includes the use of computers, management of finances, and the mobile phone again? Be careful and specific when you answer these questions yes or no can be dangerous. Personally I don’t read at all now, and have not done so for years, and when I need a number from the phone book I ask my partner to look it up as I find I usually end up straining to see the small print in the directory.

Heavier than a pint of milk?

Heavier than a pint of milk?

Does the mental condition prevent him or her from undertaking leisure activities previously enjoyed?

This one is a beauty, the alleged ‘Doctor’ is trying to trip you up again. If you say you are suffering from depression and yet still follow your local football team then this proves you are not depressed. If you say you sometimes get to the allotment to see to your pigeons, then you are fit enough to travel to work. These questions are geared to prove everything you have entered on your IB50 form is false and can be medically debunked by your own answer. I don’t know about you, but my disability  prevents me from pursuing any of my previous hobbies, full stop.

Does he or she overlook or forget the risks posed by domestic appliances or other common hazards due to poor concentration?

This question disproves the following question (before you even answer it!) relating to serious accidents or to whether or not you can cook for yourself, from your answer the alleged ‘Doctor’ will deduce that you have not had any ‘serious’ accidents lately (I wonder if this includes slips, trips or falls?) you can use a computer? you can drive without difficulty? have excellent concentration skills? can use a mobile phone, deal with you finances, correspondence, can read and write, do your own shopping?

Has agitation, confusion or forgetfulness resulted in any potentially dangerous accidents in the last 3 months?

From your answer the alleged ‘Doctor’ will deduce that you have not had any ‘serious’ accidents lately including slips, trips or falls? you can use a computer? you can drive without difficulty? have excellent concentration skills? can use a mobile phone, computer, deal with you finances, correspondence, can read and write, do your own shopping? you have an excellent memory, your coordination and orientation are normal and you were not confused, agitated or forgetful during the ‘examination’?

Can his or her concentration only be sustained by prompting?

Again, this question is linked to the previous questions and is asked this far in to prove your concentration is good enough to continue answering questions under pressure? So anything you have said relating to poor concentration in your IB50 is immediately called into question?From this and previous answers the alleged ‘Doctor’ will deduce that you can (yes you guessed it) use a computer? you can drive without difficulty? have excellent concentration skills? can use a mobile phone, deal with you finances, correspondence, can read and write, do your own shopping? you have an excellent memory, your coordination and orientation are normal and you were not confused, agitated or forgetful during the ‘examination’?

Daily living

Does he or she need encouragement to get up and dress?

Your Healthcare professional will comment that you have no difficulty getting in and out of bed and can dress yourself without difficulty. This means anything you have said relating to pain when moving is immediately called into question. This also means you are not depressed, can cope easily with everyday functions and can climb stairs curiously enough?

Does he or she need alcohol before midday?

This is to prove you have or do not have a drink /alcohol problem. Notice the use of the word NEED in the question. Everyone (including alcoholics) will rarely admit to NEEDING alcohol at all? Therefore, if you are in the unfortunate position of being an alcoholic, your own pride prevents you from answering honestly. Sad isn’t it?

Do you really NEED this?

Do you really NEED this?

Is he or she frequently distressed at some time of the day due to fluctuation of mood?

This question relates to mood swings, sudden changes in temperament. Your alleged ‘Doctor’ will say you did not suffer a mood swing during your examination which means you are not depressed, stressed, or suffer mood swings. Are we to assume then, as long as he /she does not witness you having a mood swing they can say you do not have them?

Does he or she care about his or her appearance and living conditions?

If you are relatively well dressed and appear to be clean during the examination the alleged ‘Doctor’ will deduce that you are capable of dressing appropriately, caring for your self, have good living conditions, are not depressed, stressed and have good coordination. This is despite the fact you may have had help in washing, dressing and that your family or friends help you look after yourself and your home?

Do sleep problems interfere with his or her daytime activities?

Be careful when answering this question! as from your answer the alleged ‘Doctor’ will decide if you have sleep problems which affect your concentration, which in turn may debunk any answers given to previous questions relating to concentration. I refer you to questions 3, 6,7 and 8 previously asked in the Mental Health section.

Coping with pressure

Was mental stress a factor in making him or her stop work?

This question is used to debunk any information you put on your IB50 relating to stress as being the main reason or contributory reason you stopped working. The ‘Healthcare professional’ should say so here, if the main reason was anything else, this should also appear here. I.E. The main reason for leaving work was mental stress, physical health, depression etc.

Does he or she frequently feel scared or panicky for no obvious reason?

Unless you actually have a panic attack during your ‘examination’ the alleged ‘Doctor’ is at liberty to assume you do not have panic attacks and therefore anything you have entered onto your IB50 is utter lies. The usual comment is; Does not experience panic attacks,  Appeared relaxed, Not anxious on examination

Panic attack

Panic attack

Does he or she avoid carrying out routine activities because he or she is convinced they will prove too tiring or stressful?

This question has already been asked in the mental health section and I refer you to question 5. The alleged ‘Doctor’ will deduce the following from your answer. You have and can operate a mobile phone, which you use for texting, chatting, making arrangements and for emergencies. Can drive a car without significant difficulty, can deal with your own finances and correspondence effectively and are able to make long journeys without significant difficulty?

Is he or she able to cope with changes in daily routine?

This answer to this question has already been gleaned from the previous questions asked. Take a look at the questions in the two previous sections and tell me I am wrong, The alleged ‘Doctor’ arrived at the following opinion from my answers. Had an appropriate level of concern because of coming here today, normal concentration on examination, not anxious on examination, does not suffer panic attacks and oddly, has a mobile phone, which you use for texting, chatting, making arrangements and for emergencies.

Does he or she frequently find that there are so many things to do that he or she gives up because of fatigue, apathy or disinterest?

Its interesting to note that the answer to this question appeared to have already been gleaned from section 1 questions 1,3,4,5,6 and 7. Section 2 questions1,3 and 4. Section 3 Questions 1,2,3 and 4. You can see this clearly from the alleged ‘Doctors’ answers this question. Dont forget the question about your past hobbies in particular?

Is he or she scared or anxious that work would bring back or worsen their illness?

As with every one of the previous questions, when I was asked this question it was worded differently, the alleged ‘Doctor’ asked;  “What would you do if “they” offered you a job now?”. I gave a positive answer by saying I was eager to return to work once I recovered from my ailment. The alleged ‘Doctor’ inserted the following stock answer. Feels very negative about being able to cope with work?  What planet are these people on? What on earth will the decision maker conclude from that? Worse still, how can I defend this if I need to? The mind boggles.

Interaction with other people

Can he or she look after himself or herself without help from others?

Beware?You have already been asked this question in sections one and two, from this question your alleged ‘Doctor’ will deduce that you have a mobile phone and use it for texting, chatting, making arrangements and emergencies, can deal with your own finances and correspondence without difficulty, can use a computer and have normal intellectual functioning?

Does he or she get so upset by ordinary events that it results in disruptive behavioural problems?

Caution! this has already been assessed in question 3, Daily living section.

Easily upset?

Easily upset?

Do mental problems impair his or her ability to communicate with other people?

Already assessed in question 1 section 1.Curiously, the alleged ‘Doctor’ deduced the following; Yes you guessed it, has a mobile phone and use it for texting, chatting, making arrangements and emergencies, Behaved normally, normal rapport?

Does he or she get irritated by things that would not have bothered him or her before becoming ill?

Beware! this has already been assessed at section 1 question 5, section 2 question 3 and section 3 question 3. The alleged ‘Doctor’ will comment on your present state of agitation, i.e Had a clam nature, He or she appeared agitated.

Does he or she prefer to sit alone six or more hours a day?

It didn’t seem to matter when I told the alleged ‘Doctor’ that I regularly spend long periods of time alone as my partner works alternating shifts, the stock answers entered were. Sees family every day, Behaved normally, not depressed on examination?

Is he or she too frightened to go out alone?

I was asked How I got to the examination centre? was I accompanied? did I drive there myself?  The answers I gave to these questions (which were entirely supplementary, and not part of the official list of questions I have reproduced here) did not appear on my medical report, neither did I understand their significance until I saw the medical report. The stock answers included; Goes out alone, Does not experience panic attacks, Not anxious on examination, can drive a car without significant difficulty, Appeared relaxed, Able to make Long journeys without significant difficulty.

As you can see, it would be easy for anyone (let alone allegedly qualified and registered medical practitioners) to carry out one of these so called medical examinations. Which in the words of the DWP “Is different from a normal medical examination- it is not to diagnose or discuss treatment of your medical condition”. It is there to prove you do not have a medical condition It would also be just as easy for someone to abuse the system and either deliberately try to produce a report which would be sufficiently damming enough for the decision maker to stop payment of your benefits. Or equally to accept a bribe in return for a report which guarantees the decision maker would continue or increase your benefits. Please note; I am not suggesting for one minute that this has ever happened, simply, that it is possible.

I hope this helps to bring these people to book over the way we are being treated just because we made a legitimate claim to benefits we have paid for in advance. Like you, dear readers I want to see the thieving scum who cheat the benefits system prosecuted, but why should we all be treated as potential benefit fraudsters, forced into taking a ‘medical’ which is solely designed to make us look like we are not telling the truth?

I’ll be back

412 Comments »

  1. Wow, interesting but disturbing reading here. I feel the need to respond, as I’ve been called in for my ATOS ORIGIN (surely a name George Orwell came up with?) assessment this week. I suffer from severe mental breakdown and depression which leaves me useless for days/weeks. In six months I have seen four doctors, who have signed me off work, prescribed me medication and sent me off for counselling (I stopped after she asked me to draw pictures of how I was feeling). Clearly the DWP are now out to get me and I am going to lose my benefits. At least now, thanks to your site, I can go pre-armed for their loaded questions.

    This reminds me of the sort of langauge process Socio-Psychologists have studied for years, the type of language structure used in Soviet-style Brainwashing -Popular in Neuro-Linguistic-Programming and the like…It’s everywhere in our culture and, sadly, on the increase.

    As genuinely ill members of the public, we should not have to go through this sort of abuse, especially from those who are there to help us. It is very sad. Thank you. Good and informative website.

    Comment by Mike — March 21, 2009 @ 12:15 am

  2. Thanks for the comment. I too am interested in the techniques they use against disabled people. I am sure they would use more, shall we say “persuasive techniques” if they could. Please read my comparison on the DWP/SS, the simalarities are startling. These are as I have said some of the most Narcisistic people on the planet and are paid to achieve targets, you and I are the victims here. In the event they do stop your benefits do what I am doing and take it to the very limit i.e. to a tribunal. Win or lose I will be publishing the results of mine here and will publish my appeal letter if it helps. Take your time or get help in writing it, demand a copy of your medical report the day after it is completed and challenge every negative item on the alleged Doctors medical report. There are 3 million + disabled claimants in the UK, ATOS have targets to achieve which are set by our present Government, you and I are nothing more than statistics to these people regardless of our disability. Maybe its time we formed a group and paid a lawyer to act on our behalf to change the system. It may seem a crazy idea, but if 3 million disabled voters turned on the Government and voted for anyone but them at local and national elections they would be out of a job! I urge all disabled people to complain profusely to thier local MP too, tell them they are about to lose votes and they will jump (only because they a crapping themselves at the thought of losing thier cash cow I hasten to add). Also, be aware, it may take a month or so to stop your benefits, this is just another techniques they use to demonstrate thier power over you. If this happens they will request you make repayments, challenge it, raise the matter at the first opportunity during your back to work review with the smiling assassin. Above all, prepare for the “examination” beware of thier traps and demand to be heard. Remember the fool ‘examining’ you knows nothing of your medical history and will make assumptions if your answers are short, They do not know you as well as your own GP and have no idea how bad your condition affects you so you must tell them, psychologically they know you just want to be out of there as quickly as possible, but try to avoid panic, think before you speak and dont be rushed. Remember you are entitled to have someone with you during the examination and to take notes.

    Good luck and take care

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 21, 2009 @ 10:47 am

  3. In the Incapacity Benefit Handbook for Approved Doctors

    MED-S2/IBHB
    Version: 3 Final
    3 June 2004

    It states.

    “In another example, in the area of Interaction with Other People: “Do mental problems impair his or her ability to communicate with other people?” (Question OP(c)): If the answer is `NO’, the comment might be:

    “He shops for himself, uses public transport and answered questions well at the interview today.”

    If the answer is `Yes’, the justification could be:

    “She has moderate learning difficulties. Speech somewhat retarded. Poorly developed social skills. Father answered most of the questions for her

    From that its pretty obvious how cray the process is.

    The entire range of mental health problems, and individual circumstances of peoples health are thrown out of the window in favour of if you can go shopping now and again, use public transport and answer questions at that moment in time.

    No consideration of the fact there could be other problems causing you to pass that descriptor, or the fact conditions can fluctuate, you may only go shopping once in a while, rarely use public transport etc etc.

    They neeed to ask questions to find out more, instead of making assumptions, which quite frankly in my opinion is a breach of good medical ethics, and should be reported to the General medical council (doctors) or nursing and midwifery council (if a nurse).

    Comment by anonymous — June 30, 2009 @ 9:42 pm

  4. Agreed, it is quite obvious that ATOS take the view that as each individual has to be asked the same questions, there should also be a set of standard answers. I suppose the anaology is when you write to an M.P. to complain or to seek clarification, you will no doubt be sent a standard letter in reply. This allows the M.P. to dedicate time to his personal expense claim, second, or in many cases third and fourth jobs leaving the minimum of lowly paid work like working for thier constituants untill last. ATOS therefore need to make the same decision and allow thier alleged Doctors to insert inappropriate answers, assumptions and lies, and they commit the bear minimum to paper (less is best in case they are caught). This in turn allows them to move onto the next cash cow oops claimant thus dedicating the majority of thier time to thier own personal gain.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 1, 2009 @ 7:35 am

  5. just got turned down again.a doctor was falling asleep at the appeal.it was in wolverhampton.a question i was asked was. if there was an empty cardboard box in front of you would you be able to pick it up?.i had to ask wether its on the table or the floor?and said i would if i was sitting down.(bearing in mind i was on a stick).AND HAVE SEVERE INJURIES TO MY LEFT ARM.The ‘judge’on entering said oh youre on a stick. i thought no surprise there as when i was at atos healthcare i was on crutches.they seemed to be at great pains to see if i could walk,and how was my driving?i got my injuries from a car accident.and it is plain to see that these people are not doctors or judges.they are here to rubber stamp a decision already made.these people are terribly ignorant and pass secret notes between themselves.and then state they are not questioning your integrety,when it is quite obvious that this is exactly what they are up to.

    Comment by bill — February 1, 2010 @ 2:15 am

  6. What on earth are they thinking about? a cardboard box indeed I cant believe you were asked that at a tribunal. Can you imagine that on your CV when applying for work? I’m sure being capable of lifting an empty cardboard box is an invaluable indicator as to your physical ability to an employer in todays competitive job market. What planet are these idiots on eh? This is part of the problem with the academic processes applied to this issue by ATOS. The whole process, particularly the questions, the ambiguous way they are written and asked, and the multiple choice answers the pretend “Doctors” have to choose from needs to be addressed and changed at the earliest possible opportunity. Under the present system almost everyone coming into contact with the joke “Doctors” at ATOS “examinations” can and will be passed as fit for work. Surely there are human rights issues here? and what about Health & Safety? We need to get organised here and challenge the Government on this issue.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 1, 2010 @ 9:21 am

  7. I’ve been claiming Incapacity Benefit as I have severe depression and social anxiety. My money was stopped following a medical with Atos, so I appealed and had to go to a tribunal. I was asked by the doctor at the tribunal what would happen if I had a burst pipe at home, as I had already explained I was anxious about using telephones and I didn’t have a phone at home. I told him I would turn off the stop tap and get my dad to sort it, and I won the appeal.
    Now after 12 months I’ve just received another IB50 to fill in. My anxiety has not got any better, if anything it is getting worse every year. If the benefits people would ask my own doctor about my condition, it would save a lot of time and money.

    Comment by L — March 28, 2010 @ 7:45 am

  8. They dont believe anyone, including your G.P. Thier excuse is they need to assess you themselves. All I can suggest is you return the compliment and assess thier performance, there is a form on the assessing ATOS page. Use it at your next medical as an aid to your memory of the experience. I am going to send mune to a few folks including the HSE and Fire Service, afterall, they dont seem to care what state thier premises are in. Best bet is to be truthful, Provide every bit of evidence you can in support of your case, be accompanied during the “examination”, get your companion to take notes and if the “Doctor” objects tell him he cant. Dont forget to ask the “Doctor” if you can go through his answers to check for any inconsistancies. Lets make them sick of going to work, male htem dread every client they see, that way it can only help us, afterall they try to raise our stress levels…Oh and if they do stop your benefits go to the tribunal armed with every bit of evidence to support your case that you can muster.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 28, 2010 @ 8:09 am

  9. Hi

    I have had my ‘Medical’ Today my 1st one and I am very Panic Stricken now as it was all over in 10 minutes and all he did was ask me 3 seperate questions but about 10 times each, ‘Are you on Medication’ then ‘Do you do your own Shopping’ then ‘Can you walk up stairs’ thats all he did then went back to the first question. Did he not understand what I told him or was he just expecting me to change my answer or something, I am very confused by all this. Has anyone got any advice as I don’t know what to do. Thanks in advance.

    Comment by InAPanic — May 15, 2010 @ 9:11 pm

  10. Wait untill you get the medical report before you start panicing, you can get a copy from you rlocal Jobcentre. Give them a ring and ask them to send you a copy, they cant refuse though they will try to fob you off with excuses as to why theuy cant send you one. Bear in mind the reporst are sent via email the same day as your medical. See my answer to Sick of it all on the ATOS medical assessment page. Good luck and keep us posted.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 16, 2010 @ 8:00 am

  11. The problem with any question if you have a poor memory is that you may not remember what you said less than a minute ago,and if they are going to word it differently later on the person with poor memory has no chance. To me the questions are designed to get people with hidden mental conditions on to JSA where they will remain until someone can get the better of whoever is doing the medical assessments or they reach the age where they can retire. Is this what David Cameron meant by getting over 1 million off ESA & DLA?

    Comment by Dean — May 17, 2010 @ 2:02 pm

  12. I think all of the questions are carefully designed to mislead any claimant, whether they have poor memories or not. Its quite clear when you look at them.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 18, 2010 @ 7:10 am

  13. Hi

    Thanks for all the replies, I got my inevitable letter today 6 Points!!!!!

    I am appealing but I also want to take Legal action for Slander/Libel as the ‘report’ states I can and can’t do things, but how would they know as they never even asked me any of these Questions, as I said they only asked me 3 Questions 10 times each that is is, so I am even more confused now and really don’t need this stress.

    Comment by InAPanic — May 28, 2010 @ 1:02 pm

  14. Hi

    Sorry I forgot to mention that the 6 Points I got were for something they never even asked me about either.

    Comment by InAPanic — May 28, 2010 @ 1:02 pm

  15. Proving they make it up as they go!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 29, 2010 @ 7:59 am

  16. No surprises there then eh? These liars ned to be exposed, I saw the programme broadcast on BBC Scotland last week called “Who’s cheating who” they gave ATOS and the DWP a right good hiding. We need more balanced investigative journalism like this to show how we are being treatd. Its available on the BBC Scotland web site and you should be able to watch the entire episode on your computer.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 29, 2010 @ 8:02 am

  17. hi just been assessed scored 3 been on ic ten years waiting for a quad bypass
    plus been dia with p t stress. as you say i was asked three question 10x by a inpatiant doctor who puts you under pressure to answere quickly and moves on to the next question befor you have finished answering the last one got ib65 stock reply when i total up my score as i thourght i had answered my question’s i scored 17, a lot of question on the IB65 FORM WHERE NOT ASKED DIRECTly AT THE INTERVIEW MEDICAL/NOT’A MEDICAL. they made up ther own answers
    i am appealing’ in the mean time told to calaim eas or income support
    CONCULSION. go in pissed fall about lose your temper shout tell a load of lies and bingo score max points

    Comment by peter — June 10, 2010 @ 7:41 am

  18. Hi

    I got my ‘Report’ in the Post Today and it was completed in 13 Minutes. Anyway it is incosistent with the letter they sent me with the Points. Also it claims to have done 24 ‘Activities’ which I don’t recall doing at the ‘Medical’. They seem to have assesed a lot in 13 Minutes according to this joke of a ‘Report’. I don’t know what to do anymore.

    Comment by InAPanic — June 15, 2010 @ 1:09 am

  19. Challenge it, call your local JC+ ask for a GL24, contact the Local Authority Welfare Rights Officer or the Local CAB and arrange an appointment, work with the first one to see you. Also keep records of any conversations you have with DWP or ATOS staff on the telephone or by letter. They hate it when you ask them to speak slowly because you are taking notes. This will help if you need to go to tribunal. Good luck and keep us posted.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 15, 2010 @ 7:58 am

  20. I have had an atos medical today, and this guy has tripped me up no end. I suffer from anxiety and depression and realised that after I left, the answers I gave on my IB50 were different to the way I answered them. His questions were quickfire giving me no real time to answer. At the end of the medical I broked down in tears and he looked at me as if he couldnt care less – looked at me like a benefit fraudster. There were some questions I really didnt get, have you been violent to your partner? Yes verbally abuse without meaning to? Are you in trouble with the POLICE?? I am not in police trouble, but what does that have to do it with? Also seemed obsessed repeating 3 times that I had been on a bus and been on it 30 minutes. Loads of other pointless questions – Looking at what other people have wrote, looks like I will be making an appeal soon.

    Comment by Jon Goddard — July 23, 2010 @ 5:28 pm

  21. Its the usual psychological bullying and searching for justification of a low score. Why not visit our new forum at http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ there are loads of other people in a similar situation with a wealth of information who you can discuss these matters with.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 24, 2010 @ 11:48 am

  22. As an ESA veteran I can tell you now in all honesty the ESA WCA could be done without the claimant being in attendance.Don’t be stupid you say,well feature this…………
    The Atos HCP can alter your answers to whatever they want!!!!!YOU therefore are not needed.
    The Atos HCP makes statements re.physical examinations they do not do………YOU therefore are not needed
    The Atos HCP can and does put information into the report that does not appear to refer to you at all
    The Atos HCP is answerable to no one
    The Tribunal may find for you but will make no sanction on Atos or the HCP
    The problem everyone has, including me,They do not research the ESA WCA on the web until they experience the medical and find they have 0 points.
    For anyone reading this prior to filling in the ESA50 form.Atos will use dubious means to fail you,I am not advising you to lie but you MUST maximise your condition
    1)Google ESA Descriptors and print off a copy. Your answers should include the wording used in the descriptors
    1a) Fill in the form fully, every question.You must state your worst day condition.Do not leave a question answer box empty repeat the previous answer if neccessary.
    2)Fill in the anything you wish to add page fully you must make the form take 10 mins to be read.
    3)Make a copy of the form
    4)After sending in the form study your copy until you know it off by heart
    5)Go to the medical without being afraid,be aware they will try to trip you up.
    6)Decline to do any physical activities you do not wish to do with the words “I am sorry it is likely to cause me pain and discomfort”
    7)Only give answers which you have put on the ESA50 form do not be swayed,do not make any unneccessary comments
    8) Do not be taken in by the HCP seeming nice and reasonable you will find out why when you see the copy of the medical report.
    9)Expect to fail don’t be upset you are one of many,appeal at once ask for a copy of medical report and a copy of ESA50 this just makes them know you are serious.
    10)Study the medical report for faults,contradictions or errors you can use these in your appeal but your appeal must show the Tribunal which descriptors you feel you should be awarded points and why.
    11)Finally be patient good luck

    Comment by anon — August 1, 2010 @ 7:57 pm

  23. How does being able to use a computer or not make any difference to one’s incapacity claim?

    Comment by nobeard — August 5, 2010 @ 7:33 pm

  24. It means you are mentally capable, not depressed and able to sit at a desk and operate a computer, thus strengthening thier position when they say you are fit for work. We all agree statements like this ne are irrelevent, however, it gves the DM the opportunity to score you low.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 6, 2010 @ 2:04 am

  25. The last Labour ? Government passed their requirements for ESA results to the DWP,the DWP passed on these requirements to Atos Healthcare who implement a system which delivers these requirements.In this instance the requirements were to deny benefit to 75% of new claimants from 2008.
    If the new Coalition Government requirements are the same they will continue as is.
    If a future Government reqired more people to be allowed ESA (to reduce the unemployment figures for example)Atos Healthcare would adjust their responses to the assessment to meet the new requirements.
    Atos are only interested in the profit to be made from the system not the actual figures pass or fail.
    A pass or a fail only relies on the comments of the HCP’s if they are instructed to make comments to support a claim they will and to fail a claim they will.
    It is not rocket science to see Atos profits will be the same either way,at the moment 90% of clients are assessed that they can return to work in 3 months,the DWP can ask for a new ESA WCA every 3 months if they wish,it is no coincidence Atos could do 4 assessments per claimant every year.The name of the game for Atos is to maximise profits.
    What the public don’t seem to understand is the ESA since 2008 has only been for new claimants not long term claimants,therefore the use of terms like benefit scrounger would not apply.
    A new claimant could be anyone who falls sick this coming monday,their views on the rights and wrongs of benefits would be immaterial they will more than likely fail the ESA this is a fact.
    The only way to understand the ESA system is to go through it,the unfairness will then become plain.
    The most important thing one must do when claiming ESA is to fill in the ESA50 form fully,explain everything in depth,do not be embarassed use extra sheets of paper if required,when attending the WCA assessment give the same answers that you have put on the form no more no less,and never attend alone always take a witness.
    Atos Healthcare are not interested in your condition only in how the condition effects your ability to work.That does not mean your existing job,it means any form of work, which they don’t define.
    You must remember they are instructed to fail you ,your aim is to get 15 points,THEY are ready to cheat you out of your benefit any way they can,you must do what is neccessary to get your legal rights.
    Until there is a fair and reasonable assessment anything goes to reach 15 points.
    Your NI contributions are being taken under false pretences this is FRAUD on a massive scale.
    Come October when migration starts we will see what techniques Atos use to fail claimants who have passed previous assessments three or four times.
    The defence for ESA of helping people back to work is just smoke and mirrors I have been on ESA for 12 months with no interviews or other help whatsoever.
    The ESA system is NOT FIT FOR PURPOSE everyone knows but the Government and DWP carry on with this charade
    eventually when the mess is sorted out it may be that all assessments from 2008 have to be done again with compensation for the false failures,the costs could be massive.
    Always appeal,appeal,appeal defending the undefendable will always fail.

    Comment by anon — August 15, 2010 @ 4:06 pm

  26. I have an ATOS ‘medical’ this Saturday, i wonder if they get a higher wage for ‘working’ at weekends?

    When i was put onto IB i was sent to see a doctor regarding my condition, would that have been an ATOS doctor, do you know?
    Reason i ask is that officially i’m still waiting for him to contact me after about 5 years, since he was unable to get enough blood from me to test (my veins are damaged from 11 years of heavy intravenous drug abuse), he said he’d need me to see a specialist about it & he would be in touch asap.

    Seems like just the kind of thing i would expect from ATOS after reading so many things about them recently, i just wonder if that ‘doctor’ i saw was one of theirs, it was not at a hospital but at a large new building very near the large new building where ATOS do their pca medicals.

    Comment by nobeard — August 16, 2010 @ 1:18 pm

  27. I must have been lucky.. I filled the form in honestly and attended the ATOS medical. I’ve recently recieved a copy of the medical report. While it gives me the required 15pts I’m even more confused as it’s full of inaccuracies and blatant lies. Plus, it states I should be able to return to work in 6 months. My employer NHS, occ health department disagree and are paying me off as they have already made all reasonable adjustments.

    I told the HCP (a mental health nurse) “I visit my friend rather than sit in the house all day, I’m there for about half an hour it takes me 2 minutes to drive as I can’t walk that far”. That somehow changed to visits friend, drives 30 mins, another is goes shopping. Only she forgot to mention my friend picks me up and pushes me around the supermarket in a wheelchair.

    Also forgot to mention my daughter has to put my medication out because some days I forget I’ve taken it and take it again or miss it altogether and suffer the consequences.

    This is just three examples of the many inaccuracies. I agree there are many ppl claiming who are not entitled to it however, genuine claimants are being put through untold stress and anxiety because of this small number.

    Comment by Beth — October 5, 2010 @ 4:31 pm

  28. No one on this site or its sister forum is suggesting the form is filled in dishonestly? This information is interreted by a Decision Maker, Im surprised you got any points?

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 6, 2010 @ 6:45 am

  29. And nither did I, I was stating a fact however, having worked in DWP I do know for a fact, there are many who do lie when filling in forms.

    How dare you judge me and suggest I wasn’t entitled to the required 15 pts.

    As a disabled person I’ve worked damn hard to stay IN work dispite medical advice. I am sickened to my stomich that I’ve been FORCED to leave due to my disabilities. ATOS may well be RUBBISH but it’s because of fraudulant claims ppl with disabilities are being put through this.

    Comment by Beth — October 7, 2010 @ 11:18 am

  30. Welcome to our little community Beth. OK looks like you have taken a stance on this. First I have not “Judged” you or accused you of anything, I meerly expressed my surprise at the award! So lets look at some facts shall we, in a dignified and fair manner. ATOS Origin are a private sector company paid for from the public purse. ATOS Origin are also known to have previously used fraudulent measures to achieve targets and have been banned form practicing in America. ATOS Origin employ retired, struck off, semi qualified, Doctors from outside the UK who have little or no understanding of the English language, Physiotherapists, midwives, Auxiliary nurses and just about anyone with the vaguest of medical qualifications to achieve thier targets, because no self respecting “real” Doctor will work for them. The majority of disabled people who complete the IB50 or ESA85 form do so “Honestly” and are penalised by charlatans at ATOS and the DWP who use thier answers against them to avoid paying Benefits to which they are legally entitled. The DWP employ “Decision Makers” who have no previous medical experience, are trained by ATOS and rely upon guidance from a “Government hand book” and the corrupt decisions made by the alleged “Doctors” employed to cary out the so called personal capability assessment. This in itself is questionable at best. The Government support this corrupt organisation and allow this cherade to continue because it meets thier requirements at this time. There are no accurate figures to support fraudulent claims for DLA and Sickness Benefit except for those figures relating to those individuals who are caught and successfully prosecuted. As an ex employee of JC+ you will no doubt be aware of the above, may I suggest you read the blog, look at the “facts” the contributors have presented and then make a balanced judgement. I do not judge individuals and my reply to your comment was simply illustrating my surprise at the Decision Makers award of the magical 15 points in your particular case and nothing more. We do not condone the actions of those who do make fraudulent claims and WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM LOCKED UP FOR DOING SO, REGARDLESS OF THE AMOUNT THEY HAVE STOLEN. We welcome Benefit reform as long as it is done fairly and involves input from all concerned parties including Disabled Benefit claimants and support agencies like the CAB and Welfare Rights. No one here is disputing your level of disability or that you have worked hard to stay in work, remember, the majority of people here have done the same. You are welcome here and you will find nothing but support and information which you may or may not choose to make use of. As for your final statement “ATOS may well be RUBBISH but it’s because of fraudulant claims ppl with disabilities are being put through this.” is this an admission that the DWP know ATOS are a corrupt organisation! or just your own personal opinion.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 8, 2010 @ 7:12 am

  31. Once again you have judged me and my knowledge level regarding ATOS. I am well aware of methords used, also that the staff they employ would probably not get a job working in hospital wards.

    We are in fact singing the same tune when it comes to criticizing ATOS and DWP methords for reducing numbers of claimants. This system is not fit for purpose which has been clearly shown by the number of ppl with severe disabilities/health issues being deemed fit for work.

    The tests themselves ARE NOT fit for purpose, based on the fact they are based on simple everyday tasks and not tasks expected within a working environment.
    i.e. The fact I can use my computer DOES NOT mean I can sit at a workstation for 7 hours a day.
    The fact I watch TV DOES NOT mean I can concentrate on figures/stats for 7 hours a day and what has being able to a pound coin up got to do with anything (I doubt employers would be throwing coins on the floor).

    As for my statement ATOS are RUBBISH is based on personal experience, knowledge of the system and how it works including the computer programme and talking to former workmates.

    I maintain my stance “it’s because of all the fraudulant claims disabled ppl are having to go through this process” however, some years ago I remember JCP staff advising/encouraging ppl to claim IB in order to keep unemployment figures down. Therefore the problem lies purely at the doorstep of governments who wanted figures/stats to show their policies were beating unemployment.

    Comment by Beth — October 8, 2010 @ 7:46 am

  32. Hello again Beth, No I didnt judge you, neither will I ever judge anyone. I actually agree with what you are saying in principle so I dont realy understand why you are giving me a hard time. You have actually bolstered what I and all of the other contributors to this blog and our sister forum for months. I applaud your “outing” of the old “you look ill, why dont you go on the sick” ploy the JC used in the Thatcher years, I thought I was the only one it was actually said to untill my mate Jimmy told me about it years later. I agree and have stated the test is not fot for purpose and does not meeet the demands of employers and welcome your confirmation that some JC+staff believe the same. I also concede that there are a small number of fraudulent claimants out there who are raking it in hand over fist. I also said if you recall that I would like to see them imprisoned as a matter of course. That leaves us with your final statement the the problem lies purely at the doorstep of governments who wanted figures/stats to show their policies were beating unemployment. I agree there too, so why beat me up, to all intents and purposes it looks like we are on the same hymn sheet when it comes to Disabled folk getting a bad deal and the fraudsters who rob the system making life hell for genuine claimants? Correct me if I am wrong but where on earth have I offended you?

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 8, 2010 @ 5:45 pm

  33. dwpexamination
    You havn’t offended me, I simply felt you had made an assumption based on a few lines of text. There was no need to issue a long statement of facts re: ATOS.

    We ARE singing from the same hymm sheet, so we can agree to disagree on a few very minor details.

    I also believe (and this is my feeling based on my knowledge working for DWP) call centre staff and decision makers, are fed up having ppl complain to them, instead of their MP’s, making formal complaint against DWP and ATOS or organising formal campaigns to challange the legality of a computer and inexperienced health advisors making assessments of incapacity based on minor everyday tasks.

    Also for the record I live in an area of high unemployment, many ppl saw IB (including JCP staff) as a way out of signing each week and being included in unemployment figures. These ppl remained on IB for many years. It’s these ppl I blame for me and other ppl with genuine need, having to jump through hoops to get the miserly sum £65 per week to live on.

    Comment by Beth — October 8, 2010 @ 6:03 pm

  34. Lets agree to disagree then, in the interests of making progress. I also think very soon we may all be living in areas of high unemployment especially if the alleged cuts in public the public sector materialise. I am sure there will be a few who decide to claim ESA especially if thier redundancy payments mean they cant claim JSA. This will cause further problems and the circle continues. I began this blog just over a year ago to fight back, part of that process involves organising people and providing as much information as possible, which in turn will allow them to follow JC+procedures in appealing bad decisions successfully. I do not condone fraud and actively campeign against it, welcoming Benefit reform in the process. Any such reform should include those in receipt of Benefits, the organisations which offer support to Benefit claimants and social services to name a few. I agree there is a minority who make life difficult for those, like you and I who are in genuine need. I also agree the need to be flushed out of the system, but equally argue that there are better ways than tarring everyone with the same brush. This leads to unnecessary stress and financial hardship, which can take months to sort out and in some cases cause people to lose thier homes.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 8, 2010 @ 11:53 pm

  35. Once again I agree, DWP is almost at breaking point due to this fiasco.

    Reform must start at the beginning with doctors who, sign repeat sick notes for ppl claiming a minor illnesses. Hopefully the new fit notes with an area for doctors to recommend addaptions within the workplace or light duties, could be a start. While some jobs you can continue doing with mild illnesses or mild pain there are others which CANNOT be continued and I feel this is for a GP to decide not inexperianced ATOS HCP.

    I cannot see genuine ppl objecting to a medical after a period of time claiming sickness benefits, however, this should be with your GP/consultant or someone within the health profession who knows you well enough to comment, and, based on the real world working environment. If there is clear disability and/or diagnosed long term health issues no medical should be necassary. In my experience working with DWP and National disability organisations the majority of disabled ppl would gladly go to work (if only they could). I remember carrying out home visits and some ppl who claimed to be disabled were a lot better off (physically/mentally) than me, and I was working full time.

    I watched the programme on BBC Scotland too, I agree there needs to be more investigative journalism to expose the problems within the current system. Although, there has been so much criticizim of DWP/ATOS ppl within power are already asking questions. Unfortunately the MP’s have conveniently forgot it was them who encouraged this is the first place.

    Maybe we should all be writing to local news programers/daily press and disability organisations to more effectively highlight the genuine cases of ppl being denied benefit. Get this on the daily news regularly and it WILL be shown to be discriminating against ppl with genuine need in favor of DWP, government will have to take note. I’m sure that, if there was a test case in the courts government/DWP/ATOS would be found guilty under the DDA of discrimination and failing in their duty of care.

    Comment by Beth — October 9, 2010 @ 6:55 am

  36. Do you also advise ppl to write to ATOS regarding their medical to find out if;
    The HCP is registered with GMC or on the Nursing register, and,
    is qualifyed, has specialist knowledge of their condition to decide on face to face medical and carryout physical/mental health examinations? As any decent Dr/nurse without specialist knowledge of the condition is not fit to comment, ppl CAN win appeals just on that fact.

    Comment by Beth — October 9, 2010 @ 7:12 am

  37. Yes i agree, lets get down to the roots of the corruption, and we can start with Professor Aylward, who represents UNUM and also reresents ATOS healthcare, UNUM a private American insurance company were kicked out of the California for fabricating medical reports with the intention of denying legitimate claimants their legal rights to health claims,UNUM is now banned from most states.

    So denied the chance to exploit people and make a huge profit over there, they brought their slimy practices over here (Overpaid, overcorrupt, and over here) through ATOS healthcare.
    Professor Aylward and his sidekick Dame Carol Black, yes the same Carol Black who dreamed up the sick note nonsense, decided to conspire with the previous Government (New Liebore) in denying disabled and sick people their legal right to benefit.

    Not by introducing a fair system to weed out the scroungers as they call them, but by introducing the same corrupt American system to deny almost anyone benefit, even a head on a cushion and rolled in on a trolly would find it difficult to pass an ATOS test.

    So as i said lets start with the above pair of parasites, then we can move on to the next scrounger James Purnell, another parasite and expenses dodger by the way, then on to the next money making parasite, David Blunkett who just loves making a fortune through action without work (its not what you cant do, but can do) who needs a couple of underpaid flunkeys to get him out his bed and washed in the morning (I wonder why the media don’t tell the public about that) and Danny Alexander another do as i say not as i do politician, who knows all about ATOS corruption, but has been persuaded to say nothing, with promotion and a wage rise as a reward, then WHEN they are all dealt with amongst others.

    We can then move on to the corrupt so called HCPs who work for ATOS health-uncare as well as the corrupt Decision Makers who with the permission of the last Government and the present Government have conspired with ATOS, trained with ATOS got their bums patted by ATOS, and lapped up everything ATOS were/are doing
    to disabled people.

    The decision makers know fine well the majority of the medical reports streaming in every day are fabricated and bogus medical reports.
    But not one of them, not even one is prepared to stand up and say NO this is unfair, this is corruption and im not going along with it, I’m going to do the right thing I’m going to expose this farce, no they have all decided to take part in the corruption, and so they must all fall, and no exceptions, THE WHOLE LOT.

    Then and only then, we can start with a new fair system, where honesty is valued, where medical reports are truthful, where people get a decent wage, where parasitic apostates like John Prescott aren’t made Lords (not for services to the country, but for what he knows about the corruption in the country) where the Tony Blairs of the world cannot be allowed to lie to the people, start wars, then traipse around the world making a fortune.

    Yes i agree, lets reform and start from the roots and work our way up, or work our way down, whatever way you want to look at it !!

    Comment by David — October 9, 2010 @ 10:33 am

  38. It’s this sort of rant and personal attack that makes it harder for us, we have to stay objective and state discrepancies based on fact which, highlight the failings within the benefits system and not get personal. I’m well aware it’s an emotive subject for many and we can’t help get personal sometimes however, we do ourselves no favours in doing so.

    Remember even DWP/JCP staff are also losing their jobs which means, even heavier workloads and greater pressures placed on the remaining staff, with many ending up on sick leave themselves thus creating increased delays in processing claims.

    Personally I’d like to see organised campaigns up and down the country with marches on parlament by ppl in their wheelchairs with oxigen cylinders hooked on the back and an online petition. I’m sure it would achieve great numbers in a matter of day.

    Comment by Beth — October 9, 2010 @ 10:52 am

  39. Listen up, WE thats thousands of us, at least since OCT 2008 have stayed objective and stated discrepencies based on fact, and highlighted the failings in the benefits system, do you see that, read the above, nearly two years, and getting nowhere fast, battling these people long before you got on the scene, if you want to reinvent the wheel then on you go.

    But that doesn’t detract from the fact that ATOS are corrupt, the politicians and decision makers that conspired with them are corrupt, if you want to live in denial thats up to you ok.

    I choose to live in the real world, not the jackanory world you are living in, we have tried your way, we have sent in thousands upon thousands of e-mails, thousands of complaints to ATOS/DWP and everything is getting swept under the carpet, false and fabricated medical reports are looked upon as normal now, because we tried it YOUR WAY, well let me tell you, YOUR WAY isn’t good enough.

    You talk about online petitions, well i know at least three, with thousands of comments exposing ATOS/DWP corruption, and guess what they are being ignored, the powers that be are hoping we will go away, well we are not going to go away, we are going to keep exposing ATOS/DWP corruption, and if that means personal attacks on corrupt politicians and their flunkeys then so be it.

    You say many DWP staff are ending up on sick leave, well there’s an old saying ”It’s an ill wind that doesn’t blow some good) so when they go on sick leave and get their little so called medical ATOS test, then if they dont already know how devious and corrupt ATOS are well they will find out the truth in the real world, and perhaps even join us in our battle.

    This might be some kind of game to you and your ex collegues, but i can assure you it’s deadly serious to us, as i said, your way is the old way, has been tried, and is no longer relevant.

    Time to make way for the new way, and thats a direct exposure of this endemic corruption, and that means straight forward talking, that means a direct confrontation with the Danny Alexanders of our world, in full view of the media, asking him straight out, why haven’t you done anything about ATOS corruption Danny ? thats the way forward.

    If you think it will help by organising a march on Westminster then your welcome to try, but dont just march down there and wave a few banners, because i can assure you, without any doubt whatsoever you will be ignored, it wont even make the six o clock news, but i can tell you what will make the six o clock news, a direct cofrontation with Iain Duncan Smith in full view of every camera ” I am accusing you of conspiring with ATOS corruption Sir, i believe you and Danny Alexander not only know about ATOS corruption you are guilty of aiding and abetting in the corruption” thats the way forward, that will be on the six o clock news alright.

    Funny how it’s always a rant when folks disagree with what you say, but bravo, succint, and go on give it to them boy when they do agree..!!

    Anyway i have to sign of now because i have a life to lead, so good luck with the organised march, please let me know how you got on..!!

    Comment by David — October 9, 2010 @ 12:34 pm

  40. Like I’ve said RANTING and PERSONAL attacks get you no-where fast (2 yrs of shouting, wheres it got you? no-where) Making judgements about ppl in the same boat also makes you look like a small minded bigot.

    Just for the record I do live in the real world (30yr disabilty and working) mainly providing benefits advice to genuine claimants which, is not easy at the best of times. Currently, while trying to remain objective, collecting evidence against a poor, discriminatry system.
    Blogs and discussions online is somewhere for ppl to vent/sound off it’s not getting publicity, the only thing that will is being organised and getting ppl that matter on side instead of having a go at them.

    Comment by Beth — October 9, 2010 @ 12:52 pm

  41. Two years of shouting alone, thats because there’s not enough people like me doing the shouting, and to many limp wristed people like you that cant face up to the reality of the situation.

    Now read the above comments 37 and 39 absorb what it says and go figure.

    I will end my correspondence with one last comment, i’m just glad you haven’t advised me on benefits and entitlements, you dont sound like a person that can see other peoples point of view, thats because nobody can tell you anything Beth seeing that you know it all, you dont even sound like a person i can be bothered listening to.

    Goodbye, and as i said good luck with the march to westminster that you certainly are not going to organise..!!

    (PS) You keep going on about rants an personal attacks Beth, sounds a bit like yourself..!!

    CHEERS and glad to see you got 15 points.

    Comment by David — October 9, 2010 @ 1:50 pm

  42. 2 yrs of shouting ALONE.. and your rant speaks volumes. Maybe it’s because I see both sides of the argument and worked within the system and LAW which is what got me and others 15+ points required to continue claiming ESA.

    I CHOOSE to support disabled ppl who have failed and continue to fight for a fair and just system.

    Goodbye to you and good luck with your claim!

    Comment by Beth — October 9, 2010 @ 2:39 pm

  43. Anybody know what best to do about a ‘registered medical practitioner’ fabricating medical evidence to support stopping benefit?
    The most frequently cited piece of ‘evidence’ in the IB85 is “Able to complete five rounds of ‘serial sevens’ (tests memory, concentration and thinking)”, but at the PCA i was asked “subtract 7 from 100″, “subtract 7 from 93″, “subtract 7 from 86″, “subtract 7 from 79″, “subtract 7 from 72″.. (5 separate questions) this is not a ‘serial sevens’ test at all, i was alone at medical but i have this recorded on a digital voice recorder.

    Comment by nobeard — October 11, 2010 @ 8:08 pm

  44. It seems to me that this is the way to go.
    At the examination-
    1)Take someone with you with a vidio camera and tell them you will be recording the exam.
    2) Ask them before they start what qualifications do they have and can you see an I.D.
    3) If they are not a doctor (or a specialist nurse in your field of disability)ask them if you can make another appointment when they have someone qualified to assess you correctly.
    If we all do this then they will be reluctant to cheat us.

    Comment by debbie — October 12, 2010 @ 2:03 am

  45. If you read some of the horror stories on the blog and the forum you will see there is suffucuent information to suggest that video recording is not a valid option.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 12, 2010 @ 6:41 am

  46. Is it possible you could give a little more infrmation please? ie have your benefits been suspended, do you have a coopy of the Doctors report etc?

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 12, 2010 @ 6:48 am

  47. Yes, i have a copy of the report & yes, my benefit was stopped last month, i must submit an appeal today. This ‘serial sevens’ statement is cited as reason to disallow points for all memory & concentration related questions, very dodgy. It was a doctor too, registered with GMC.

    Comment by nobeard — October 12, 2010 @ 10:29 am

  48. I suggest you get your appeal in without further delay as you have only one month from the date of the letter. Good luck and keep us posted of your progress.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 12, 2010 @ 12:00 pm

  49. I await my ESA85 form on dec 5 so i have been informed by the local jc last week.Also informed by them that after my examination by ATOS i will be contacted by phone the result of my examination.Seems a bit strange as it probily be number with held or private number which many people will not answer I have asked for a home visit as my electric scooter will not be able to go on the train i,ts to big I think the phone call from them is a bit suspect and should i tell them about the scooter.It would be to difficult and painfull to take two taxi,s and the train each way as i have osteoarthiritis in both knees and glaucoma plus the medication i have to take would make it quite dangerious

    Comment by troubled — October 27, 2010 @ 9:46 pm

  50. Welcome to our world troubled. I have never heard of ATOS or the DWP contacting anyone via telephone with the result of thier “examination”? I fail to see what benefit this would have other than for ATOS or the DWP, i.e. there will not be a paper trail and thus less evidence to support bad practice. It is always wise to ring and or write to your local JC+ requesting a copy of the “Doctors” report, you will need this if you wish to appeal. Please remember it is your right to have access to any information ATOS or the DWP hold on you especially the “Doctors” report Also you will find many of the readers and commentators on this blog and our sister forum http://www.dwpexamination.myfreeforum.org have made FOI requests at the same time. If you find yourself in a position where you have to appeal, make sure you contact your Local Authority Welfare Rights Officer or the CAB for help and advice with your appeal. Good luck and keep us posted

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 28, 2010 @ 10:17 am

  51. Thanks for your reply., I was asked for my telephone number at my meeting at the Jobcentre last week as they didn’t have a copy of it. I was then told I would be notified by phone of the result of my medical with Atos whenever that may be. I agree with you that they may be trying to hide a paper trail to avoid appeals. Apart from my medical condition as it stands at the moment, I was also in a serious accident in 2003 in which I broke my back, and I have photo copies of the X-ray which show 4 bolts and 2 rods holding my spine in place. The bolts are approx 4-6ins long. I also have metal plates and 9 screws in my right arm, which I am awaiting surgery to remove some after a fall in January due to the imbalance of my legs. When I showed my X-rays to my interviewer at the Jobcentre she was stunned and couldn’t believe that I was asked to come in, because I am practically un-insurable as far as working is concerned. She kept repeating the question “is this metal still inside you” in disblief. Her words were “if you were to take a bad fall, any of the bolts around your spine could puncture a vital organ if misplaced” and therefore render me as a possible paraplegic. I hope this does not seem to be an overexageration, but that is my position.

    Comment by troubled — October 28, 2010 @ 11:33 am

  52. Hi Troubled.

    The whole idea of phoning you to talk about your examination is to save them time and money, and is not for your benefit.
    So lets suppose they tell you that you do not have enough points and you will have to sign on for jobseekers allowance, you immedietely say i cant do that, but what i can do is appeal against your decision to find me fit for work, and since i’m appealing could you please forward me a GL24 appeal form, and since i want to study your decision before i fill in the GL 24 appeal form, i wish you to also forward me the ATOS ESA 85 medical report, also inform them that you wish to be paid the assessment rate whilst waiting for your appeal date, because if you dont they will just expect you to sign on, in other words you have to tell them what you are entitled to, they never tell you what you are entitled to.
    Do not get involved in lenghly conversations, their whole idea of phoning is to try and tell you that you have no chance at the tribunal etc.
    Because the ATOS decisions are so bad that almost everyone is appealing now, they have turned to phone call desperation to cut down the number of appeals .
    Just politely insist on the form and medical report so you can get on with that appeal you will undoubtably have no problems in winning.

    Hope this helps a bit.

    Comment by David — October 28, 2010 @ 12:20 pm

  53. Thank you David that was most helpful, but was thinking along those lines. Is there a forum that puts up a petition to sign against this immoral practice of Atos. After reading through a good lot of the blogs on this site I believe they have already been thrown out of America for,dare I say, dubious or illegal practices. In the worst case senario, how would this look in the European Court of Human Rights???? I know I seem to be jumping the gun, as I haven’t been assessed yet, but will no doubt be nil point!! If they do decide to stop my income support benefit, will they also stop my DLA High Mobilty? Should I ask for a GL 24 appeal form if they stop ANY/ALL of my benefits?? Whilst an appeal is ongoing, do they still have to pay all benefits until a decision is made at the tribunal? What happens, if by chance, I miss the phone call on a mobile phone due to bad/no reception. Will they still go ahead and stop my benefit? How can you appeal against a decision when you don’t even know it’s been made!!!!

    Comment by troubled — October 28, 2010 @ 2:06 pm

  54. Hello troubled.

    First of all you need to relax, this is not personal, although it may seem to be, everybody on any kind of sickness benefit, no matter who they are has to go for a medical test, unless of course you are a head on a cushion.
    There are people with brain tumours, lung cancer etc being told to attend a test, the reason they are phoning people is as i said is simple, they want to save money, and a simple phone call is cheaper, ATOS and the DWP are two cheeks of the same bum, anyway dont worry about them not contacting you, they will find you all right, after they contact you by phone and it is confirmed then you will recieve a letter instructing you the time, date where to appear etc.
    It’s by no means certain you will be found fit for work, so dont worry about it.

    Now you ask about some captain cash while you wait for a possible appeal, yes as i said on my last comment you can insist on recieving the assessment rate instead of Job seakers allowance, assessment rate pays the same as Job seekers and of course rent rebate etc is included.
    Look at comment 50 and you will see a sister website you can visit to converse in forum style with like minded people http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ everybodies in the same boat.
    You ask if there is petitions, yes there is and there are two that i know…….’Sack ATOS healthcare immediately petition’ and the………’against DWP reforms for the genuinely sick and disabled’ petition, both can be found by googling.
    To finish then, if any of your benefits are disallowed, appeal as soon as you find out, they only give a month to do so and are quite strict.

    Good luck.

    Comment by David — October 28, 2010 @ 3:02 pm

  55. I forgot to add, if you do have to appeal and you win, then all moneys they owe you will be backdated, less of course the assessment rate, and in the highly unlikely event you dont win the appeal, you haven’t lost anything, so if you are found fit for work by ATOS/DWP and you believe you are not fit for work, then appeal, because you have absolutely nothing to lose..!!

    Comment by David — October 28, 2010 @ 3:09 pm

  56. I have cerebral palsy, this means that i cannot talk very well, cannot hear very well cannot cook or bathe for myself have spasm which i cannot control cannot use a mobile phon as i do not have much co ordinatione am very vulnerable if left to my own devices outside of my own enviroment and use a wheelchair. This is now compounded by severe arthritis caused my the cerebral pasy wear and tear on my body. How the hell can i go to work? It has taken me 1 hour to type this and i a tired out. I expect tho by reading this that i will be demed “fit for work” sighs whats the point?

    Comment by Leanne — December 8, 2010 @ 3:17 am

  57. Have you been summond to attend a medical by ATOS?

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 8, 2010 @ 8:52 am

  58. For information..
    Benefits and Work Website have a great deal of information about filling in forms with advice and do’s/don’ts. I have also just recieved an email with the following information.

    Benefits and Work Newsletter:

    Confirmed: DLA to be axed and replaced by PIP
    The DWP have confirmed that disability living allowance (DLA) is to be abolished and replaced by a new benefit called Personal Independence Payment (PIP) in 2013/14. All existing DLA claimants will be reassessed for PIP once it is introduced.

    A brief consultation has begun – but not to decide whether to replace DLA, only to decide the finer details.

    From the scant information available, we look at what’s staying the same, what’s changing, why your ESA medical may also be your PIP medical and who is most likely to lose out with the introduction of PIP – designed to reduce spending on DLA by at least one fifth.

    Whether you have a PIP or an ESA medical, you can be sure that it will be Atos who carry it out. The coalition have now extended the Atos contract by a further three years, giving the multinational a virtually unbreakable stranglehold on benefits medicals.

    And that may not be the end of your dealings with Atos. They are one of the companies shortlisted by the DWP to run compulsory schemes to get sick and disabled claimants back into work once they have been placed in the work-related activity group.

    Comment by Beth — December 8, 2010 @ 11:06 am

  59. no i have not been called in for a medical yet but I am one of no dount thousands of very worried individuals who have a gneuine disabiltiy.. I would also like to point out something that has been bothering me about all this. If, like me your award for IB, DLA care middle rate and DLA higher rate mob has been granted to you indefinitely how can it be taken away?? If they take it away then that means that the person who granted it to you was wrong or i have lied which then becomes a matter of legailty surely?

    Comment by Leanne — December 8, 2010 @ 12:29 pm

  60. Not really because indefinitely DOES NOT mean for ever.. It can be reviewed anytime. I like many others have letters granting the DLA award for life however, DWP changed the goalposts so they can review at anytime.

    Comment by Beth — December 8, 2010 @ 12:33 pm

  61. So are you telling me that having had this disabiltiy since birth, having been to a school for disabled people, then college for disabled people had a go at working , and was told by various medical authorities that i cld not becos of the severity of my disability and in more recent years having to have a carer who now lives with me that I am not entitled to have the security of my DLA for the rest of my life and that i have tO PROVE that i am disabled enough to get it again and again ? i might as well give up , curl in a ball and die Do these people have any idea how humiliatng this new screening process is or how difficult it is living with a disability like mine, constantly being stared at when i go out or when i try to communicate.? and struggling to deal with the every day tasks that most people take for granted? do they even care? I have an iq of 135, if i was able to work i would do instead I am trapped in this god damn ujsless bodyQ

    Comment by Leanne — December 8, 2010 @ 1:13 pm

  62. Hi, welcome to our community, I started writing this blog a couple of years ago when I became a victim of ATOS Healthcare. There are many other people in similar situations and I am trying to provide a focal point whrer anyone can express thier opinion, good or bad about the present situation. Disabled people are currently under attack by the Government who are feeding the press and tv media with stories which are designed to alienate and demonise us in the eyes of the general public. The whole point of the blog is to provide a platform from which people with sever disabilities like yourself can speak freely and share thier experiences with other disabled bloggers. No one here will challenge you, all you will find here is support and open debate. I welcome your input and having a relative in a similar situation as your own, can appreciate your sentiments. There are many disabled people out there who are being victimised by ATOS Healthcare and I want to bring this from the shadowy world they live in out into the light. Please tell us your story, the more information we have about the experiences of people like yourself, the more aware we and hopefully the general public become. Please feel free to join our sister forum at http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ where you will find many other people in a similar situation to yourself.

    This is what the General public are not hearing or reading in the press. This is why blogs like this one exist in the first place. Disabled people are being treated abysmally by the Government and unless we act now, we will lose our right to Benefits and this will have a knmock on effect down through the next generation or two to a point where there will be no Benefits. Please fight back, by doing so you do not contribute to the case the Government have to continue employing fraudulent organisations like ATOS Healthcare. Please feel free to join our sister forum at http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ where you will find many other people in a similar situation to yourself.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 10, 2010 @ 9:35 am

  63. [...] Questions you may be asked? February 2009 62 comments [...]

    Pingback by 2010 in review « Dwp examination — January 3, 2011 @ 5:42 pm

  64. omg,ive just stumbled across your page trying to research what questions will be asked and im now more nervous than i was this morning,ive had hip pain for about 8 years but never thought of going on IB, until i went to a backto work interview for single parents,and the lady said to me have you got onto mobility yet, ive recently had a MRI scan of my hips,which stop me from doing numerous tasks,walking upstairs,walking in general,sitting still without pain, but im only 39 and for the past 8 years,just got on with it for my kids sakes,alto now everyday tasks are impossible… ive been reading through everyones experiances for the past 30 minutes,and is petrified about 2 june… any tips on what to do… im also addicted to co-codamol and NEED alchol to get me thro a nearly pain free day…many thanks in advance
    Rachael

    Comment by rachael — May 14, 2011 @ 8:01 pm

  65. Have a look on benefitsandwork website they have a self assessment form on there which, has the questions you’ll be asked. The only other advice is be honest about daily difficulties. If they do fail you and withdraw benefit appeal and re-apply for ESA whilst waiting for your appeal.
    With regard to your addiction to co-codamol I wasn’t aware they were addictive, I’ve taken them for 20 year while working full time, now taking much stronger pain meds and I’ve never been addicted to painkillers.

    Comment by Beth — May 14, 2011 @ 8:19 pm

  66. Esa renewal 2009,report full of lies.Rang DWP and got an apology,Esa re-instated.DLA renewal november 2009,turned down completely despite HRC and HRM for 3 years previously.why?i have the nerve to defy the odds and survive three seperate bouts of cancer.The fact that 6 years after diagnosis i still have check ups every 3 months.Also have damaged discs in neck,osteoarthritis of lower spine,nerve damage in back from evasive treatment,depression and anxiety,and hidradenitis suppurativa in groin.After 7 months battling dwp and reports and letters they are now only writing to my gp.Enough stress to tip anyone over the edge.

    Comment by mandy — June 21, 2011 @ 4:01 pm

  67. @Beth. Co-codamol are very much addictive they contain Codeine, which is an Opiate. There is a warning on every box you buy.
    And unfortunately, If you have taken Opiate pain killers for 20 years of course you are addicted to them, you just don`t know you`re addicted unless you suddenly stop taking them.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 1, 2011 @ 11:04 pm

  68. Firstly I don’t buy them they’re prescribed, I was taking them for 20 yr as and when required which was 4 times a day while working along with Disease Modifying Drugs and regular Kenalog injections. As stated due to disease progression I now take other pain relievers i.e. Tramadol and Amytriptyline with Kenalog injections 3 times a year.. again as and when required and I do go without them when I can. So I can assure you I’m not addicted to anything.

    Comment by Elizabeth Rayner — August 1, 2011 @ 11:21 pm

  69. I did not say you bought yours I said there is a warning on the boxes you buy.
    “I’ve taken them for 20 year while working full time” Not only are you unique you are also lucky. These drugs are very addictive, especially when taken regularly and it can take days for the withdrawal symptoms to start.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 3, 2011 @ 10:08 am

  70. Has anyone heard about anyone attending a medical assessment and their experiences in Spain or any other EU country where claimants were receiving Incapacity Benefit? but now been reassessed.

    Comment by genesuncut1 — September 11, 2011 @ 7:03 pm

  71. ive my assesment soon ive allready decided if i lose my benifit i will take my life im already a phisical burden on my family i wont be a financial one

    Comment by Anonymous — October 20, 2011 @ 10:48 pm

  72. You will not do anything of the sort, you will do as I and thousands of others are doing and fight these bastards. You can get plenty of help here at the forum http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ go there get help and fight and you will win.
    You will not lose your benefits, you can get the assessment rate if you appeal any adverse decisions, this means you will get a full rent rebate (If you are renting) and full council tax rebate as well as money to live on, and when you win your appeal then all money they owe you is refunded.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 20, 2011 @ 11:02 pm

  73. i have read all the comments on this site with great interest. I had an accident at work last november and snapped the ligaments in my index finger which was repaired but when the wires were taken out my finger did not move. I have since had another 9 procedures done on my hand because i cant use it. My thumb fingers and wrist have frozen up and i now have RSD which is from the tip of my fingers to my shoulder so i am in constant pain. my family have to do everything for me like washing, dressing,making meals as i am now unable to do a lot. my left arm is now suffering because i am having to use it and i am now suffering with pain in that arm. I am now suffering from depression because of this i cry about everything like how i will probably not be able to use my right hand and arm again and i am right handed. my consultant says i am not fit for work and i myself know i am not. Work are now considering terminating my employment because of my lack of capabilities so i am really low. I know when my tribunal comes that i will probably lose but i must keep on trying. The advise on this site though has really helped me and i will let you all know.

    take care xxxxxxxxxx

    Comment by chiggy woo — October 25, 2011 @ 11:03 am

  74. There’s more advice on what to do next on the forum CW http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/, just think up a user name and log in and ask any questions you like, from what to do when you appeal, to what to do for money, who to contact for help in your area etc

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 25, 2011 @ 2:59 pm

  75. I have both asthma and eczema and recently had a severe eczema flareup which lasted many months. I wont go into detail as to how eczema has affected my life but will say when it is bad you suffer to the point where you wish you didn’t exist anymore, and there is no respite unless you take drugs that can seriously damage your health and further weaken your immune system. After reading the above accounts from people It makes me extremely angry that genuine cases are treated so badly. I have experienced discrimination during my lifetime however, I have been fortunate enough to hold down a job but goes without saying when I have been ill, I have often felt pressurised to return too early, and that some people, often those who are fortunate enough to be healthy don’t understand your illness and think you are ‘shirking’. Often my eczema has been referred to as ‘just a rash’ or its ‘just eczema’ some people do not understand when it is severe you cannot move because it hurts so much and that it also hurts to put clothes on. I am currenty unemployed and have recently completed the medical questionnaire. I struggled to answer the questions as they fail to relate to skin disorders. I have also been asked to attend the medical screening but after researching this online felt angy that the health examn website refers to eczema as being a ‘rash’ and as I already expected, just how qualified are these so called health professionals……..I am so grateful that my flareup isbegginning to slowly improve and hope that I do not have to undergo this pointless examination…..

    Comment by Anonymous — October 31, 2011 @ 3:02 pm

  76. Be prepared though for their pointless letter, if you can walk or even crawl they will demand you attend.
    You can get all the help you need to deal with any possible appeals etc here at the forum…http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 31, 2011 @ 6:52 pm

  77. Hello all, I am appalled at all ive read. I am attending an ESA medical tommorrow as i have chronic back pain and difficulty walking, sitting or standing for periods of time. I suffer with constant sciatica and neck pain due to arthritis. I have worked in heavy industry for all my working life and have paid national insurance and tax along the way. These benefits are there to support people with genuine injuries/disabilities. It is only recently that i have become incapacitated and am slowly sinking into deppresion because of my lack of mobility. I cannot let some robot from the highest bidder take control of my life with the use of a computer. I will fight them as I believe I am entitled to ESA. If I cannot put my socks or shoes on or walk without severe discomfort whilst taking 40mg of morphine daily along with 30/500 co codomol then there is something seriously wrong with the world. Rant over lol. update tommorrow.

    Comment by jason porter — November 9, 2011 @ 9:38 pm

  78. Cheers Jason let us know what happens, I can guess some of it for you, you will meet a lovely Lady/Gentleman at the ATOS centre who will be deliriously charming, that’s fine just play along and see what it says on the brown enveloped letter from the DWP, and if it is not in your favour then log in here http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ and get all the help you need, so relax make a cup of tea put your feet up and don’t worry.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 9, 2011 @ 9:54 pm

  79. ATOS – the ‘Work Programme’ and ‘Mandatory Work Activity’ supply chains:

    https://www.lifeinthemix.info/2011/11/atos-work-programme-mandatory-work-activity-supply-chains/

    Comment by Caz — December 5, 2011 @ 2:41 pm

  80. @Beth…. oh yeah you’re not an addict… same as someone who drinks everyday is not alcoholic… no wonder you piss people off on this site with your holier than thou attitude…. having worked for the DWP maybe a lot of people on here think you “know” how to play the system… tut tut…

    Comment by Anonymous — December 22, 2011 @ 1:04 am

  81. Ok I’m an addict, but I can and often do stop taking all my meds to give my body/system a rest, sadly an alcoholic is unable to do that. But my meds have nothing to do with this page, and I find personal attacks quite distasteful.

    As for playing the system I don’t need to, though I have to admit I know the system, but anyone with a little knowledge can get info about how DWP works, it’s freely available. I gather information and arm myself with knowledge prior to dealing with them.

    Yes I do have an attitude, that could because of where I live. I see people fiddling daily, having worked for DWP I’ve had full access to people records and I’ve seen so many blatantly fiddling the system and fraudulently filling in claim forms unfortunately the fraud office just didn’t have the staff to go after them!

    Believe me, the figures for benefit fraud are way out (they are only the ones caught) it’s much more widespread than statistics say. It’s these people I blame for disabled and long term sick having to jump through hoops now.

    Comment by Beth — December 22, 2011 @ 9:37 am

  82. OK Beth, fair enough, you’ve at least been frank… i think most genuine people not just genuine claiments can spot a scammer\thief, yes they should send them to prison if its blatently clear that they are or indeed have made fraudently claims of any benefit.. the biggest fraudsters i know of and indeed read about are how can i put it politely not of anglo\saxon origin… ive seen things that beggers belief… having said that it’s the governments fault and the laws on immigrants claiming anything should be looked at… i.e NI contributions, length of time working in a genuine taxable job etc.
    This is only my veiw and by the amount of spelling mistakes, grammer & punctuation in my post it really dosn’t add up too much…..

    Comment by Anonymous — December 22, 2011 @ 2:17 pm

  83. All views, opinions are valid regardless of spellings/grammar, we all have different experiences from which we draw our own opinions/views. As long as someone can make themselves understood that’s all that matters.

    Comment by Beth — December 22, 2011 @ 2:30 pm

  84. so i cant concentrate in a strange way,i can do everything but i wont keep a job down and will miss jsa signing ins, ican pick up a 2.5kg sack of potatoes but if anyone asks me to do i get points for beating them with it untillthey get where i am coming from

    Comment by Anonymous — January 22, 2012 @ 4:31 pm

  85. Hello Anon.

    Well you may get points for beating them over the head with it but it doesn’t come recommended, better to concentrate on the mental health issue side to try and make some headway, there’s also what’s called the ”non functional descriptors” this refers to what’s known as ”exceptional circumstances” because a lack of concentration amongst other things can lead to a situation where you are dangerous in the workplace to yourself and others.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 22, 2012 @ 5:15 pm

  86. Hello all

    I have been to a ATOS medical and given zero points in December, I expected as much. I went to one of the first medicals when new labour came up with the plan of employing ATOS and they failed me then too. I appealed in 1998 and got decision reversed with the help and the C.A.B. Well the waiting list is now 18 months so I will be in limbo for a while. I found out something interesting during my visit to the C.A.B the DWP had been removing my Child Tax Credits from me and my wifes’ Income Support because “we did not think you had any children” even though I always kept them informed, so they owe us over 10 grand and they don’t want to pay it out ;-)

    Well I wanted to share a few things you may already know so please for give me if you do, but I found an interesting site with a very switched on guy who has a great deal of technical information like who has to be called for a medical by condition.

    http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatoscontract.html#MEDICAL-CONDITIONS

    He also list a wealth of information on ATOS’s contract I found a lot more useful information again maybe old news but I will list it.

    In an article for the BMJ,[21] Doctor Margaret McCartney attended an Atos recruitment seminar and then detailed her experience, concluding that she did not feel it was possible for a doctor to work as an Atos assessor and simultaneously adhere to their professional responsibility to place the needs of the patient first at all times. In response to a comment[28] by a reader of the article that Atos doctors did not owe claimants their normal duty of care, the Standards and Fitness to Practice Directorate of the General Medical Council issued guidance [29] that Atos assessments are indeed a doctor-patient interaction and that doctors have to make the interests of their patients their first concern at all times, closing the guidance with a reminder that “Being open and honest and acting with integrity is also an essential part of medical professionalism.”In August 2011, press reports revealed that twelve doctors working for Atos as disability assessors had been placed under investigation by the General Medical Council because of allegations of misconduct in relation to their duty of care to patients.[30]
    Wikipedia

    Basically they have to treat you like a patient and have your best interests at heart if they don’t you can complain to the GMC always get you “HCP’s” name and number.

    “Unfit for purpose”
    “The government’s proposal to stop GPs writing sick notes for long-term illness and hand the work to “independent assessors” has private companies rubbing their hands. But it has alarmed those who fear that patients will have to endure the same tick-box assessments as those needing benefits, as carried out by Atos.”~

    “Now an Atos insider tells the Eye that, under pressure from government to produce figures showing the number of claimants coming off benefits, coupled with competition to run the multi-million- pound contract, the situation may get worse. In the past 12 months a number of experienced doctors have left the company because they no longer want to be part of a “target-driven” system that they say is unfair to the claimants and compromises their professionalism. One said it was “immoral”. They have not apparently been replaced, and most medical assessments are now carried out by nurses, who are less expensive – but would have fewer skills in musculo-skeletal disorders or mental illness, two of the main causes of disability.~
    Private Eye

    So we have a company being held under a contract that forces results with the threat of termination of contract, putting pressure on their medical staff to come up with results (more people off benefits). So by a process of “natural selection” all the doctors or nurses that feel a duty of care to the claimants leave and the only doctors or nurses left are the ones that either don’t or can’t care what happens to claimants.

    A second interesting thing to note is the governments’ idea to stop GPs giving sick notes and handing this to a private company, Atos or other. I am a currently appealing the decision to remove my disability related Income Support and to be able to appeal this decision I need a sick note. So in this proposed new system I will be found able to work by a privately run incentive motivated company then to be able to appeal this decision I will have to attend the same or another incentive driven company to get my sick note. I guess with an 18 months waiting list for appeal and thousands of people waiting at a cost of 80 million to the government so far, on top of the 100 million paid to Atos this may appear to be a cunning wheaze to reduce the numbers going to appeal. I also read the government proposals to scrap Legal Aid for most areas of social welfare law: http://www.justice-for-all.org.uk/

    Comment by L!mp!mp — January 26, 2012 @ 8:47 pm

  87. I still don’t understand how are people both being assessed for ESA and PIP? Will I just randomly come up for one or the other or does my having been on SDA make a difference to whether it is ESA or PIP. There just seems to be NO logic/info on this!

    I have learning disabilities, Cerebral Palsy, a later brain injury which remains undiagnosed though my GP believes me, a benign brain tumour and the fatigue and pain that years of meds and side effects causes. I frequently find it very difficult to answer questions put me by strangers, or to work out ones with negatives in. I need to think things out at my own speed but it doesn’t sound like that is something they will let you do! With unsympathetic people I say the first thing that comes into my head or forget the question half way through and have to ask people to repeat it. I am worried that they will rush me and that my thinking time problems will actually mean that I get less points or don’t get asked enough questions so that they make up the answers from the ones they do ask.

    IF they ask me the mental health questions I could answer them all with ‘No’ because so many of those things like my own paperwork/cooking I have not done for years. It is totally backwards that they get to choose what I mean based on a yes or no answer. I am sick of trying to explain to people that you are not allowed to give long answers and info and my mother will be convinced that ‘I just said the wrong thing’ which adds to the strain

    Does anyone else have any experience of whether they ask you both the physical and the mental health- I have both. Do they get angry if you flip out? I started with just the disabilities and illnesses but after the brain injury I was so depressed I became suicidal, then violent then twice stabbed my husband. My biggest fear is that whatever I do or say I will feel judged and treated harshly. Then I blame my husband for not protecting me and I can get violent. I’m worried that I could hurt my husband if I don’t get support from him, but also that if I do get angry, agitated they will throw me out without assessing me, even though loads of descriptors asked if the patient was agitated. Trust me, I WILL BE! I want to fight them like everyone else but I am scared and would rather die than kill my husband which I think I am quite capable of doing if they don’t listen to me. Staying calm seems like my only hope for my husband (if I can) but then I will lose and become violent anyway!

    Comment by ladycrookbackRebecca Stell — February 11, 2012 @ 5:38 am

  88. Go here and check your conditions, It states which conditions should be sent for a face to face interview. I see one of your conditions rules you out of a face to face, but I am not sure if this list is still up to date.

    1. Unsuitable for calling to a Medical Examination Centre.
    Age >75 years

    Age <12 years

    Both Blind and Deaf
    Registered Blind (needs to be seen in own environment)
    Cases accepted under the Special Rules defining Terminal illness.
    Alzheimers
    Amputation of both legs
    Asperger's
    Autistic Spectrum Disorder / Autism
    Cerebral Palsy
    Dementia
    Hemiplegia
    Huntingdon's Chorea
    Korsakoffs Psychosis
    Macmillan Nurse attending.
    Motor Neurone Disease
    On oxygen
    Paraplegia
    Quadraplegia
    Renal Dialysis
    Severe Mental Impairment
    Severe Learning Difficulty
    Spastic Diplegia
    Tetraplegia
    Total Parenteral Nutrition
    Unstable Angina
    Wernicke's Encephalopathy

    http://www.whywaitforever.com/dwpatoscontract.html#MEDICAL-CONDITIONS

    Go here there are lots of helpfull people

    http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/index.php

    Comment by L!mp!mp — February 11, 2012 @ 10:56 am

  89. How they react to a person who declares they have mental issues just depends I suppose on how the client/customer/patient comes across at the assessment, I’m not being funny but I can tell you of one guy (told to me by a friend) who got called in for an assessment around three years ago, according to him, he came across to the Dr as perfectly normal, that was until the ATOS Dr asked him if he had any interests ? he replied what do you mean interests ? do you mean hobbies ? and when the Dr said yes I mean what do you do in your spare time ? yes you know hobbies etc.
    The guy said well funny you should ask that Dr because I do have a new hobby and went in to his pocket and produced a little box with compartments in it, opened the box and at the same time he said ”I COLLECT DOG SHIT” and placed a lump on the table, in passing he ventured the opinion that he wasn’t sure what bread of dog it was but could be a rottweilers, and kept talking about his new hobby.
    The Dr must have pressed a buzzer under the table or something because a security guard appeared and escorted the lad from the premises, a couple of weeks later he received a letter from the DWP saying he was entitled to benefits etc.

    Obviously in this particular case the ATOS Dr took him seriously..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 12, 2012 @ 7:03 pm

  90. They cannot refuse to send anybody a copy of their medical reports.
    Under section 7 of the data protection act 1998 they have to comply with your written request within 4o working days.
    You are entitled to see everything they hold on file about you, including everything on computer and copies of telephone conversations, there is a £10 fee to see your files, for copies of the whole it could cost you up to £50.

    Comment by alisonsgypt — February 13, 2012 @ 1:10 pm

  91. Thank you this has been so helpful I have my appeal tomorrow I’m very frightened to meet them. I hate meeting new people. But oops I can use a computer, how do these people work this out my friend has cancer & a few other problems she failed her medical & has appealed she is awaiting a date.

    Comment by Kathryn smith — February 15, 2012 @ 8:08 pm

  92. Hello Kathryn.

    At your appeal tomorrow remember to discuss your health problems in relation to the descriptors you are contending, the descriptors are everything that’s what they want to talk about. And that’s how you will win.
    As for your friend failing the assessment well that’s just par for the course with ATOS healthcare, it doesn’t really matter what your health problem is they give below 15 points deliberately and hope you don’t appeal, amazingly some wimp out and don’t appeal and just go and sign on..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 15, 2012 @ 9:01 pm

  93. I wonder if it would be possible for each of us claimants who have been put through the extreme stress of the ‘not fit for purpose’ Atos examination, been failed, then had months of continual stress and worry leading up to appeal and then had our claim upheld at appeal, to sue the government for causing this additional stress when we are already vulnerable and ill? That might make the government look at the statistics and realise that when a claimant’s GP or medical specialist says they are not fit for work they should take their word for it. If everyone who has won their appeal sued the government I would think Atos would very quickly be dispensed with… just a thought?

    Comment by PRISCA FURLONG — February 22, 2012 @ 4:16 pm

  94. Hello Prisca.

    It’s a good idea and has been mooted quite a few times before, there’s some problems though, and one of them concerns organisation, it’s an organisational nightmare, having to have a treasurer amongst others, a treasurer ? you might not even know and can disappear with the Captain cash, I know someone who would make a good treasurer ? honest he’s a great guy and would never dream of running of with peoples money, but are you going to trust him just because I said so ?.
    The only way it can be done is through a lawyer, and some of them I wouldn’t trust with my monthly bus card..!!

    On our sister site http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/index.php it has been discussed endlessly.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 22, 2012 @ 6:16 pm

  95. i suffer from epilepsy and have just put in for esa after being taken off dla ,and half the questions you are talking about do not have anything to do with my condition.is anyone in a similar position to me that can help

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2012 @ 3:20 pm

  96. Hi, have a look on Benefitsandwork website, there’s loads of free information about DLA and ESA. I’d advise you to appeal against the decision to stop your DLA. Contact you nearest welfare rights organisation such as CAB to help with appeal and ESA claim.

    http://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/disability-living-allowance-dla

    Comment by Beth — February 24, 2012 @ 3:23 pm

  97. thanks my appeal for dla is going through but i was told i would have to claim jsa or esa while i wait but one im saying im fit for work and the other if i claim esa and fail this will also affect my dla appeal so im stuck between a rock and a hard place which ever way

    Comment by Anonymous — February 24, 2012 @ 3:41 pm

  98. One shouldn’t affect the other as you can claim DLA while working. Reclaim ESA, the problem will be by the time they hear your appeal you’ll be due another medical with the latest claim… It’s madness but sadly that’s the system the Tories have inflicted on us.

    Comment by Beth — February 24, 2012 @ 3:51 pm

  99. Hi,I have an appointment for an assessment on the 7/03/2012. I was already shitting myself , but now after hearing about peoples bad experiences with Alto I feel quite suicidal and the thoughts of self-harming are back. I also suffer from Iatrophobia, which is a fear of doctors. It is making me wonder if it is all worth it. The implications for me could turn out to be dire. Because if I am turned down then I won’t claim any benefits at all, I am that afraid. No rent no home. Living on the streets again and finally back to prison because I cannot cope outside in society. SHIT

    Comment by David — March 1, 2012 @ 3:04 pm

  100. Hello David.

    The actual assessment itself is not that bad, they just ask some questions about your health that’s all, it’s the aftermath, so attend the assessment it only lasts around twenty minutes, and wait for the brown letter, when it comes you can appeal, we can help you through it.
    You will not be on the streets because you can claim money and rent rebate etc while you wait for the appeal to be heard, we will show you how to tackle it with the minimum of fuss.
    You can also go to our forum, just pick a username and log in http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ and you will find you are not alone, thousands are going through this assessment, and we are helping anyone who asks.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 1, 2012 @ 3:16 pm

  101. Thank you for your words of assurance. I do feel better today, my uncle will be giving me a lift and my dad said he will attend the assessment with me. My dad is 73 but still very supportive of my condition. He can be witness just in case they are rude or abrupt to me, in the past I have had bad experiences from doctors, one especially to the point of mental-cruelty. If I do not pass my assessment, I do hope I can rely on you for help and advice. Again thank you.

    Comment by David — March 2, 2012 @ 11:32 am

  102. Hello David.

    They will ask you how you got there, and you are getting a lift that’s a great start, walking there is fit for work.
    Anyway it’s best to go and get it over with, as I said it’s just around twenty minutes of answering questions and and then you will be appealing, and we can help so forget worrying about it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 2, 2012 @ 2:21 pm

  103. my brother is 62 he has his asessment on wednesday, after a battle from me and his doctor he has finally got a home visit. I dont know how this will go as he has severe depression and is very angry.He is likely to tell them to go forth in no uncertain terms. he can hardly move cannot get up without me helping him (but due to me pulling my back out and having sciatica I cant lift him). my question is can I use a video camera to record the asessment, and also as my brother is on pension credit when he fails and has to appeal will his pension credit increase to cover what he loses on Incapacity benefit?

    Comment by Chris — March 5, 2012 @ 1:30 pm

  104. Hi Chris.

    If you tell the ATOS HCP that you are recording the medical, then you will find that the assessment will cease immediately, a letter will arrive saying your/his benefits have stopped, if you want to record then either you do it covertly or make an arrangement with ATOS, An arrangement with ATOS may be granted but it’s a long hard hoop jumping road to go down.
    His pension credit will not increase to cover lose of IB, but if he needs to appeal his lose of IB then he should get the assessment rate while the appeal is ongoing..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 5, 2012 @ 2:46 pm

  105. Well I’ve just got back from my assessment. Although it wasn’t as bad as I thought it would be, I couldn’t help but feel very very inadequate hearing my answers reiterated back to me. By the end of the assessment my head did feel all over the place. I still feel really upset and I am putting myself down and really beating myself up. The high point of the assessment was when he asked me if I had been to prison because of my behaviour. I replied ‘ yes ‘, ‘what for’ he asked. ‘ Under section 4 of the terrorist act, I was in possession of explosives and ammunition ‘. His face was a picture. But joking apart, that is a lot of my problem, I cannot be around the public. I am fine on my own and I get on well and peacefully with my life. It is the extremity of my behaviour when coping in situations that others find quite normal. I just hope that I am not forced to change from my simple solitary life-style that I have at the moment.

    Comment by David — March 7, 2012 @ 1:51 pm

  106. Hello David.

    You may be exempt because of the special circumstances rule (Danger to your self and others in a work place et al) David.
    Let’s see what they do, if they find you fit for work then you can get help to appeal here http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ and also they can tell you what to do for money while you wait for the appeal to be heard..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 7, 2012 @ 4:24 pm

  107. Hi,

    Do you know how long I will have to wait for the results of my assessment? I am not sleeping and the stress it is causing me is quite over powering. I am thinking that if I am turned down then I have no option other than going back to prison. Is this the result they want? Surely it costs the government more to have me back in prison? I am not over reacting, this is something that I am experiencing personally. If it wasn’t for the fact that I have to pay my dad a weekly keep,then believe me I wouldn’t claim benefits at all.. I haven’t been out of prison for more than 4 months, I am struggling to cope and fit back into society. It sounded so good just before my release, the psychologist recommending a brain-scan and on going mental-health support when released. But now that I am out all this has fallen by the way side, no support is in place, no mention of the brain-scan and on top of my struggles I am going to be kicked off the sick. It couldn’t get any better, no wonder I give up before I even try. My only other option is suicide and the longer this is going on then the worse it is becoming……………

    Comment by David — March 8, 2012 @ 12:00 pm

  108. Hello David.

    Why do you want to hurry and see the result of your assessment David ? for every week that passes that you don’t hear from them an extra week of full ESA goes in to your bank account, if you hear from the DWP tomorrow for instance and the news is not good then your benefits will cease immediately.

    A few people have asked this question and it’s baffling to me why anyone would wish to hear bad news as soon as possible, when if the news is delayed as long as possible it’s to their own advantage.

    Better to use your time anticipating a negative answer from the DWP by arranging a letter saying you would like to appeal against their decision finding you fit for work and therefore could you please forward me a GL 24 appeal form as well as the ESA 85 assessment report.

    That’s ironically enough far more positive than worrying about something that is completely outside your control, after all there is a slim chance you may actually be found unfit for work.

    For the record David, it can take a week to hear from them, or it can take a couple of months, it all depends how far down in the enormous pile your particular case is..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 8, 2012 @ 12:22 pm

  109. HI,

    Yes your quite right, way worry about some thing outside my control. I should really remember what I have learn’t through cognitive therapy. I know a lot of our comments on this site are at times very negative, but I like to add that your reply do make a difference. It has been a way of letting off a bit of pressure for me and in that regard I would like to thank you. Keep up the good work.

    Kind regards. David.

    Comment by David — March 8, 2012 @ 12:39 pm

  110. Hi David.

    Thanks…and just to let you know, I used to worry as well David, I would worry about everything there was to worry about, then one day I got fed up worrying about things that might not even happen, most of them never even happened .

    Now ? what will be will be is what I say, and if the worst happens I will deal with it when it gets here, I’m a much happier person as well.

    I remember Winston Churchill (I think it was him ?) was on his deathbed and was asked ‘Have you any regrets in life ?’ He replied ‘Of all the things I worried about in my life, the majority of them never even happened, so worrying about them was a complete waste of time’.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 8, 2012 @ 1:05 pm

  111. Hi,I have just perused your blog. Very interesting and informative it was too. I am to attend a medical for disability related IS on Monday and I was wondering if you could advise me. I’ll explain…I am also in receipt of DLA. As, in all likelihood, the HCA will ‘fail’ me at my medical, where do I stand on the DL? I know that DLA can still be paid regardless of whether I’m on IS or not, but surely if they ‘fail’ me on IS, then they’d consider me to be not entitled to DLA either. Should I declare my DLA claim to them? (seems unlikely). Will they be assessing my DLA entitlement at the same time?

    Comment by JOHN — March 9, 2012 @ 11:18 am

  112. Hi John.

    You don’t need to mention to the ATOS HCP whether you get DLA or not, the purpose of the assessment is to declare you fit by hook or by crook.
    Some people have been saying that after the assessment the DWP used that as an excuse to stop their DLA, and others say it didn’t happen to them, so if they stop any of your benefits no matter what it is then you appeal immediately.
    Contact your local welfare rights office or CAB for help, and log in here as well http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ get switched on, know your rights because their aint going to be no CAB or welfare rights some day.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 9, 2012 @ 1:24 pm

  113. Thanks a lot. You’re surely right. This lot are making Thatcher look like Mother Theresa.I think you could probably go as far as to say someday there won’t be a welfare system, the way it’s going.

    On another point, your initial blog was posted before the PCA was changed, was it not? I haven’t read every single entry on the blog, so could you tell me whether to expect anything different to your experience at your assessment in 09?

    I had one in 08…was ‘failed’…appealed…got benefits reinstated…eventually. Appeal was granted on the grounds that, ”The appellant is exempt under regulation 10 (2) (e) (iii) of the Social Security (Incapacity for Work) ( General) Regulations 1995 as he suffers from an active and progressive form of inflammatory polyarthritis.”

    I included this information when I submitted my questionnaire, but I wish I hadn’t now as it looks like I’m challenging them, when in fact I was hoping not to have to go for another assessment.

    I guess the law’s probably changed now, but it seemed like a good idea to mention it at the time!

    Also, something else that’s unnerved me is that last Tuesday, DWP phoned me up at 7.15 pm to ‘ask’ me to attend an assessment. I was struck by how late it was…thoughts?

    Thanks again for your swift response.

    Are you available for comment on weekends as I may feel the need to vent my spleen some more over the next couple of days!

    Comment by JOHN — March 9, 2012 @ 2:16 pm

  114. Hello John.

    Yes the PCA is different in the sense that it’s tougher to pass the WCA, last year new descriptors came in as well, and made it even harder again, they just keep moving the goalposts, at one time if you were in a lot of pain that would be enough to pass but not now, much has changed.

    The powers that be realised if you call the assessment a functional assessment rather than a medical assessment they could con people out of their rights to benefits, people who don’t understand this will go to the tribunal and say yes Dr I can walk over 200 Metres but I have to force myself through the pain, they will be asked again ‘But can you walk over 200 Metres Sir/Madam and if the poor unfortunate hasn’t got the wit to understand what’s happening (And answer NO because I have to stop and rest) then BANG they are found fit for work.
    They are also asking folk that operate a wheelchair ‘Can you propel your chair over 200 Meteres ? the majority will answer YES and BANG that person in a wheelchair will be found fit for work and will not be entitled to ESA but have to sign on instead.

    This is a Government of crooks and charlatans John, they will rob you/us of every penny you/we have they don’t give a rats ass if you/us end your/our own life/s, in fact that’s what they would prefer you/us to do, one less of the figures is the way they cold bloodily look at it, because don’t let anyone kid you that it’s all about money ? Oh no nothing could be further from the truth, it’s all about figures, remember Cameron said he was going to get one million people of sickness benfits ? he wasn’t joking and he is going to do it one way or another.

    As for ATOS drones phoning you (From Newcastle by the way) at all hours ? yes that’s true, even weekends as well, nothing is sacred with these people, the people that do the phoning are diddys they don’t even realise they are working for a bunch of criminals, they read from a script and are paid buttons……………A bunch of easily controlled TWATS, I know because I’ve spoke to one of them for about five minutes and listening to that voice of his was inducing such a strong resolve to lose the will to live that I eventually gave up and put the phone down.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 9, 2012 @ 4:13 pm

  115. Readers…Do you care about your National health service, if so please sign Eoin Clarke’s petition (Will not vote for Lib-Dems again if they allow this Bill through), it’s on the right hand side of the page, and only takes a minute to sign and click your e-mail return as confirmation..

    http://eoin-clarke.blogspot.com/2012/03/lansley-refuses-court-order-to-publish.html

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 10, 2012 @ 3:51 pm

  116. Hello,

    I have just phoned ESA for a GS 24 appeal form and ESA 85 assessment report. I enquired about what I can claim while the appeal goes through and was told that I would have to put it into writing and send a sick note in from my doctor. But I have only just had a three month sick note from my doctor and I am not going to ask for another one because he will tell me that he has already issued me one. I am really confused with all this state of affairs and it is not helping me in the least. Surely I haven;t got to produce another sick note?

    Comment by David — March 12, 2012 @ 12:44 pm

  117. Hello David.

    The person you spoke to on the phone doesn’t know if you have sent in a sick note or not, he is just telling you that to receive the assessment rate you need to send in a sick note, since you have already done so then you don’t need to send in another until it expires.
    Explain that on the letter, tell them you would like to appeal and could they please send you on the ESA 85 report and the GL 24 appeal form, and remind them on the letter that of course as you are aware I have already sent in a sicknote to cover me up to such and such a date.
    When the three month note expires then get another three month note and so on. Do not rely on phone calls to these people though, send a letter..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 12, 2012 @ 2:00 pm

  118. Hello,

    Thank you for your swift reply, it has assured me. I wasn’t looking forward to going to the doctors for another sick-note they have enough to do. I will let you know how I get on with my appeal, again thanks.

    Comment by David — March 12, 2012 @ 3:48 pm

  119. been waiting 6mth to find out what group im in jsa or esa not right from steve.

    Comment by steve d — March 25, 2012 @ 9:17 pm

  120. Hello Steve.

    I don’t understand your post, if your not on JSA or ESA and haven’t been for six months then are you saying you are on nothing ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 26, 2012 @ 4:24 am

  121. sorry dwp av not let me no anything about the Questonaire i filled in six mths ago to let me no what i will be reciveing jsa or esa

    Comment by steve d — March 26, 2012 @ 12:36 pm

  122. Hello Steve.

    I have to assume you are on Incapacity benefit then ? help me out Steve ?. How much do you get a week that would be a good start ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 26, 2012 @ 12:53 pm

  123. After my medical they failed to inform me, after 2 mth of waiting I contacted DWP they said it was out of their hands. A week later I received a letter confirming which group I’d been placed in. On the other hand at least they’re still paying you and if your placed on ESA all the extra benefit will be back dated.

    Comment by Beth — March 26, 2012 @ 3:01 pm

  124. What is the special circumstances rule? Who does it apply to? Any information that you can provide would be kindly appreciated.

    Comment by David — March 27, 2012 @ 9:24 am

  125. Hello David.

    You will try in vain looking through the ESA 50 Questionnaire for any mention of the special circumstances rule, it was deliberately left out, because they don’t want anyone to know about it, but some people are seeing mention of it in the DWPs letter informing them they are unfit for work.
    So what is it ? that’s a good question David, the bottom line is, if anyone qualifies for the special circumstances rule it is the ATOS HCP who decides and not the DWP decision maker, the HCP looks at your health issues and makes a decision on whether that person is a danger to SOMEONE in the workplace etc, notice the SOMEONE, that could be the person him/herself or a person they come in to contact with while at work, then there is what group that person should be put into, is it going to be the Support group 35(2)(b) or the Work related activity group 29(2)(b) but they first of course must be granted ESA by scoring the necessary points of 15 or more on the special circumstances before they can decide which group.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 27, 2012 @ 9:57 am

  126. People who are expected to die within the next 6 mth.

    2.1 The Special Rules Check
    When a claimant contacts the JCP indicating that they wish to apply for ESA they
    may state that they are terminally ill. The definition of Terminal illness in the
    Welfare Reform Act legislation is:
    “That he is suffering from a progressive disease and his death in
    consequence of that disease can reasonably be expected within 6 months.”
    When a claimant is considered to be potentially terminally ill, a referral will be
    sent to Atos Healthcare for advice. This referral will be accessed using the
    Medical Services Referral System (MSRS) The HCP will access the claimant’s
    case through MSRS and follow a process which has been agreed by the
    customer. The advice provided to the Decision Maker will be generated using the
    LiMA application.
    In summary, a check takes place to find out whether a DS1500 has been issued.
    The DS1500 form is used in Disability Living Allowance and Attendance
    Allowance to consider applicants for DLA/AA under the Special Rules for the
    terminally ill. If the claimant has recently been accepted under this process, they
    can be considered as terminally ill for the purposes of ESA.
    If no DS1500 is available, then the claimant will be asked to obtain a DS1500. If
    this is not forthcoming, the HCP in most cases will seek further medical evidence
    from a practitioner involved in the medical care of the claimant. This medical
    evidence will usually be obtained by telephone contact to the claimants GP
    consultant, or other practitioner involved in the claimant’s medical care.
    Sometimes, this information will be obtained by a written request for Further
    Medical Evidence (FME). It should be noted that a claimant who is Ti will be
    entitled to the higher rate of benefit while still in the 13 week assessment phase.
    Therefore a phone call may be the preferred option to enable a prompt manner of
    establishing information regarding their medical condition.

    http://www.disabilityalliance.org/esahandbook.pdf

    Comment by Beth — March 27, 2012 @ 10:06 am

  127. Hi,

    I am please to say that I have been excepted into the support group after taking the ATOS assessment. I don’t know much of what this means,only that I don’t have to look for work at the moment. I would like to take the opportunity to say a big thank you for your help and support. I don’t know who I would of turned to if it wasn’t for your site. I will be staying in touch with the site to help me understand what is going on with the other people who have struggled just like myself. I wish you all the best for the future, so keep up the good work.

    Kind regards. David.

    Comment by David — March 28, 2012 @ 12:24 pm

  128. Hello David.

    Great news, it means an extra fiver a week, but more importantly less intrusion and hassle in your life.
    Remember they will be back so get to know your rights and be ready the next time.

    http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ is a good place to log into and learn your rights for the future..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 28, 2012 @ 1:08 pm

  129. Hi,
    I am an Alcoholic & have the ESA50 form to fill in. Should i admit to being one or just leave that part blank?
    I also suffer from Depression & take Panic Attacks. I also have Chronic Pancreatitis (due to alcohol).
    If i admit it, is there anything i should be carefull answering if i am asked to be seen?

    Thanks

    Comment by Anonymous — March 28, 2012 @ 1:42 pm

  130. Hello Anonymous.

    Alcoholism is a serious illness and you should most certainly tell them (ATOS) about it, they will want to know how your illness affects your ability to work and being under the influence of alcohol can be dangerous to someone in the work place, that is yourself or another person, but they use the word ‘Someone’.

    This means you could be found unfit for work under the special circumstances rule either 29(2)(b) which is the work related activity group ESA or 35(2)(b) which is the support group ESA. But just as important is if the DWP find you fit for work and you need to appeal then what you put on there can influence the tribunal panel.

    You have a month to fill it in, you have every right to be cautious so take your time, and I would suggest that before you do fill it in, get in contact with either your local welfare rights office or CAB and ask their advice they have experts who can advise you on what exactly you have to put on there to give you the best chance of getting ESA, if for some reason they cannot help you then they often know other professionals who can and can point you in the right direction.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 28, 2012 @ 2:52 pm

  131. Hello Anonymous.

    Alcoholism is a serious illness and you should most certainly tell them (ATOS) about it, they will want to know how your illness affects your ability to work and being under the influence of alcohol can be dangerous to someone in the work place, that is yourself or another person, but they use the word ‘Someone’.

    This means you could be found unfit for work under the special circumstances rule either 29(2)(b) which is the work related activity group ESA or 35(2)(b) which is the support group ESA. But just as important is if the DWP find you fit for work and you need to appeal then what you put on there can influence the tribunal panel.

    You have a month to fill it in, you have every right to be cautious so take your time, and I would suggest that before you do fill it in, get in contact with either your local welfare rights office or CAB and ask their advice they have experts who can advise you on what exactly you have to put on there to give you the best chance of getting ESA, if for some reason they cannot help you then they often know other professionals who can and can point you in the right direction.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 28, 2012 @ 2:52 pm

  132. just wondering has anyone had a tribunal hearing at telegraph house bailie street rochdale, as i’m due to go for a tribunal hearing at this place when they send a date.and was wondering what to expect?

    Would you recommend I take someone with me, if so, who is best as i seem to be getting little if any help off oldham c.a.b at the moment. I feel as if i am fighting a losing battle, it’s been going on since october last year.

    I am currently seeing my doctor for depression / anxiety and on a waiting list to see a councillor. My depression has been ongoing since senior school, due to being bullied and I have tried to carry on as normal until one day it hit me in the face like a ten ton truck and the doctor put me on anti depressants and tablets for my ulcer.

    Ten years ago i was in the hospital two days from death due to severe anaemia. I needed five and a half pints of blood. I don’t drink, and i don’t smoke. I feel like i am falling down a black hole,

    I’m on a waiting list to see a councillor which could be between 6-9 months from now , i now know i should have done it years ago. anyone out there felt like this and what did you do about it?

    Many thanks’ in advance……….

    Comment by Anonymous — March 28, 2012 @ 7:20 pm

  133. Hi I have just had an atos medical. What a disgusting demeaning endurance test, like being in a boxing ring with someone who is allowed to land as many punches as he wishes whilst you stand there vulnerable and disorientated.

    The nurse who did it shouldn’t be a nurse to deliver that kind of treatment to a vulnerable person.

    I was even intercepted by a jobsworth as I entered the lift who was most concerned that should there be a fire in the next hour would I be able to use the stairs if the lift was out of use with the assessment room on the first floor and then about 50 metres to the far end! Tricksters. Then sat there having to wait and there’s the CCTV in just the right place to record all those waiting assessment.

    No friendliness to speak of and I think I must have no points.

    Nasty nasty and if this is the best process that the DWP/government can come up with to achieve its ends then we really are in trouble in our society.

    At least reading this and other sites about atos post assessment I realise I am not alone.

    Atos should be banned and prosecuted for the bully boy thugs they are. That they are only carrying out orders is no excuse, they shouldn’t be doing it if morals mean anything.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 28, 2012 @ 7:23 pm

  134. Sorry I Meant to put my name on (133) . Dan

    Comment by Dan — March 28, 2012 @ 7:24 pm

  135. And I meant to put my name to 134#

    DeCam.

    I’m pleased to report there wasn’t a fire in the hour I was there so I was able to use the lift BUT I had told jobsworth that I COULD walk down the stairs if required. Would he have passed that information on? Never been asked that in my life before.

    When I fail the medical with no points and appeal is there a standard reduced amount I would get until the appeal is heard? How much is it please?

    If I fail again at appeal would I have to pay back all the money received between my claim being terminated by DWP and the appeal date?

    If I fail would I be automatically migrated on to JSA without me doing anything or would I have to apply as soon as my ESA appeal was disallowed?

    If offered the option of claiming JSA I won’t be able to sign the form as I cannot agree to be available to work the stipulated 40 hours a week because, well I am not well enough.

    Have the govt been challenged on the way they have split IB/ESA into a dual NI contribution based support group and income based WRAG benefit (after one year) ?

    There’s only a one in thirteen chance of a DWP decision maker not agreeing with the atos medical score in the claimants favour. Ref. another site where a question was asked of the DWP under the freedom of info act.

    Why do atos have the power to repeatedly make claimants who successfully appeal attend a merry go round of medicals until they kill themselves Or die (sometimes).

    Is it true that an unholy triumvirate of DWP DM , atos and the Tribunal share info before an appeal because the Tribunal have the ‘most up to date’ info available and therefore the DWP and atos are forearmed and prepared for the appeal because they know all the claimants new evidence and submissions in advance.

    Apologies for my random thoughts and questions, having that diabolical medical has fired me up.

    Yours sincerely

    DeCam

    Comment by Anonymous — March 28, 2012 @ 8:32 pm

  136. Hello Anonymous.

    You can take anyone you like with you, but they will not be allowed to speak, all questions will be directed at you.
    And the questions will all concern the descriptors you are contending and how your illness prevents you from working.

    So concentrate on the descriptors, that’s the key, some support in the form of a GPs medical report would help as well.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 28, 2012 @ 9:11 pm

  137. It’s all a scam Anonymous to trick us out of our benefits, the jobsworth will run to the ATOS DR all right telling him/her how you said you can walk down stairs.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 28, 2012 @ 9:14 pm

  138. Hello DeCam.

    Yes he will pass it on all right, he will be tripping over himself to get to his master to tell him all about it.

    Yes there’s a standard reduced amount and it’s called the assessment rate : £67.50 if you are over the age of 25.

    If you fail at the appeal you will not have to pay anything back.

    And if you do fail at the appeal then you have two possible choices sign on for Job seekers allowance which you will need to apply for because it is not automatic, or if you have a worsening of your condition or a new health problem then you can re-apply for ESA, one other stipulation is that six months have to pass when you were informed by the DWP that you were fit for work, since most appeals are taking longer than six months then I trust you can meet that.

    The challenge was weak and failed, they are going to do as they like.

    The chances of a Decision maker disagreeing with an ATOS DR are virtually zilch, I heard that 99% of decisions are rubber stamped without looking, they (DMs) complained to Professor Harrington that since they are not medical experts then it’s almost impossible to disagree with them, which means obviously that ATOS are responsible for your benefits, don’t let anyone tell you otherwise, they (ATOS) decide the points so they are responsible, the decision maker is a drone, programmed only to lift the rubber stamp and slam it down.

    ATOS have the power to do what they like because the Government have gave them that power, if the Government say/s stop…then they will stop.

    Your last question is difficult to say, they were definitely sharing information between them last year and they were caught, as highlighted by the benefit and work website, I don’t believe they have stopped it, just become more secret, the DWP have a massive advantage at the appeal because it’s difficult to check if the panel have even the same information as you, are you going to ask the panel if their information tallies up exactly with yours ?. Going through sheets after sheets when time is at a premium, don’t forget to ask a panel a question like that strongly suggests to them you believe they are in league with the DWP and ATOS.
    Even though it might be true, do you really want to ask them that ?, before your appeal has even started.

    I hope I have covered and answered your questions DeCam.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 28, 2012 @ 9:42 pm

  139. Thankyou dwpexamination for the answers.

    Is there anyone impartial at the Tribunal that can stand back and look at the claim more broadly or is it simply a points exercise again and they MAY help the claimant to gain 15 plus points?

    Is a Tribunal adversarial with parties for and against putting the boot in or is it more of a chilled out discussion of the nuances of a claim, ie will I feel as bad as I did when having the atos medical?

    Obviously it makes sense to appeal as you get paid up to the appeal but if I felt I could not endure the Tribunal could I withdraw my appeal without having to repay the money so far received or would I be punished for not going through with it?

    I want to get the ESA 85 report from my medical would I be able to ask for it now a few days after I had it and should I phone or write to DWP and is it my local job centre or the office a few hundred miles away that deals with my ESA claim. Any alternative to the 0845 call?!

    Would I be right in thinking the esa85 will have the points awarded if any and from that I may deduce in advance whether my claim will be disallowed if under 15 points, before I get the official decision in a months time approx.?

    Should I also request a GL24 appeal form in advance, just in case or would that antagonise them and seal my fate!?

    Thanks!

    Comment by DeCam — March 29, 2012 @ 10:11 am

  140. Am I right in thinking after some further research that the ESA 85 report does NOT contain scores itself only descriptors that I could marry up with prescribed statements on DWP Descriptors?

    Am I right in thinking the DWP decision maker awards the points using the atos medical ESA 85 and compiles a form ESA 65 which details points awarded and for which descriptors?

    Presumably the ESA 65 can only be requested AFTER the decision letter arrives from DWP whereas the ESA 85 can be requested STRAIGHT after the atos medical?

    Thanks.

    Comment by DeCam — March 29, 2012 @ 11:54 am

  141. Hello DeCam.

    The tribunal is a points exercise again, each panel is different, because each panel has different personalities with different agendas, one panel can be known as hanging judges amongst welfare rights officers, and others are looked upon as more fair, which one we get depends on the luck of the draw, I’ve had both in my time.

    Putting the boot in is not recommended, better to act as if you are the most stupidest person who ever lived, remember they are superior to us, and don’t forget it, so play on it then and use it to your advantage..!!

    Yes you can give up anytime you like (You won’t have to pay anything back) but it will be noted by the DWP (WIMP) and from then on you will be a continual target, just like the Bully in the school playground, except they will be the Bullies.

    As soon as your medical assessment is finished you can request in writing from the DWP that you would like a copy of the ESA 85 and the score sheet. They will not supply it, but continue to delay it until you are informed by the Decision maker whether in their opinion your fit for work or not.

    Asking for a GL 24 in advance will do you no good because almost anyone can walk in to their nearest Job centre plus anytime they like and announce they are appealing a fit for work decision and could I have a GL 24 form please, not once have they ever asked me who I was or asked any security questions, getting a GL 24 form is easy.

    Your last question regarding ESA 85/65s ? as I said they will give you nothing until they decide and that’s almost always after you have been informed whether you are getting ESA or not..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 29, 2012 @ 12:28 pm

  142. Ok I was under the impression thay would send me the ESA 85 straight away!

    The ESA 65 is the Score Sheet?

    Thanks.

    Comment by DeCam — March 29, 2012 @ 1:03 pm

  143. just been told av to be reasset because iv had a opperration as i filled my questtionaier in so will it go againest me. as to what they award me jsa or esa

    Comment by steve d — March 29, 2012 @ 1:25 pm

  144. Hi DeCam.

    As I said they send nothing except a letter saying you have been found fit or unfit for work, anything after that you need to ask for yourself, and that includes asking for the assessment rate if you decide to appeal, you don’t ask they will give you nothing and pay you nothing, if you ask their advice they will say ‘Just go and sign on’.
    I believe the ESA 65 is what they (DWP) call a disallowance notification.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 29, 2012 @ 2:43 pm

  145. Steve.

    Sorry but I just can’t understand your question, could you explain it a little better ?…Thanks.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 29, 2012 @ 3:08 pm

  146. Dwp told me they can not make there deicision on me because when questionare was filled in by me i had already had hop on my knee which i think it went ok but it didnt so they now say they may call me or contact doctors for more info,is there a time limit to all this and can they keep me waiting as long as they like it seems other difficuties dont matter such as cant move left harm very good lower back dics crumberling numnous in rihgt leg lots of other problems but it doesnt seem to matter is this there way off telling me i got to go for a medical.

    Comment by steve d — March 29, 2012 @ 7:33 pm

  147. Hello Steve.

    You can do a couple of things to get them moving, first write the DWP a letter and explain that you feel you should be entitled to ESA because you have filled in the questionnaire and explained that you have other health issues as well. They should at least let you know where you stand.
    You should also contact your nearest welfare rights or CAB, preferably welfare rights if you can get them and explain your situation and ask them for help and advice.

    If you have just had an operation on your knee, how would you know if it went all right ? are you a Doctor ? No I presume, so what in gods name are you telling the DWP that you are all right ? why are you making life difficult for yourself ? tell the DWP SFA, nothing, zilch, you tell them your health issues and if they want to assess you then that’s up to them.

    Telling the DWP information you don’t need to tell them is asking for it Steve, they are not there to help you, they are there to take your benefits away from you, so tell them what they need to know and no more..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 29, 2012 @ 9:59 pm

  148. I think it’s unfair to stop your ESA cos u feel ok and fine In. Your self on your assessement but no. One knows how u are. Feeling no one understands. What. U going through each. DAy and. Night u. Up. And happy. One day the. Next day u low and down in. Tears in the world of your own and. U think. Bad. Things. In your. Head. And u. Feel. No. Ones there. For u se times u have mood. Swings u don’t why u can’t think. Things at all some. Time u. Feel. U would be better. Off. Not living. As u feel worthless in people that’s. All I can. Say. Your sincerely. Carolyn miller

    Comment by Carolyn. Miller — March 30, 2012 @ 9:01 am

  149. Hello Carolyn.

    As you know that’s one of the reasons for ESA, which is to give you all the help you need to get you a job, but besides one measly interview (My experience) that’s not happening, ESA seems to be a quick stop gap until the next assessment where they deliberately fail you so that your forced to go through the whole horrible appeal system all over again.
    The sick and disabled are looked upon by the Government as cash cows for corrupt private corporate companies like ATOS healthcare who BY LAW have a duty to see their shareholders are looked after first.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 30, 2012 @ 9:52 am

  150. when i first got IB ihad to av a medical to get some money out of a private penstion this also proof that i am ill does this stand for anything at atos medical.

    Comment by steve d — March 30, 2012 @ 7:49 pm

  151. As far as ATOS and DWP are concerned diagnosis of a condition means nothing. Entitlement to benefit (ESA and DLA) depends on how the condition limits your daily activities, which is what you have to inform them in filling in forms or show in a medical. As far as this government is concerned many people have disabilities and work full time therefore, the rest of us can.

    Comment by Beth — March 30, 2012 @ 7:55 pm

  152. i have to attend my very first medical assessment tomorrow and am terrified they will say i’m fit for work because i can string a sentence together. I have bipolar disorder so there are times i’m running 100mph and could handle 3 different jobs…….and then theres the depressive side where i cant even function to wash etc. Right now i havent washed or changed my clothes for 3 weeks. I live on cereal and if it wasnt for my laptop i’d probably be dead cause i email samaritans a lot. Having read some of the other posts it seems if i admit i can use a computer then i am capable of working. I was diagnosed when i was 19 and i’m 34 now. I managed to cope and was very successfully self employed. However, the reason i was able to cope is that i self harmed. If i was getting too stressed it would ground me ans make me feel in control again. When i say self harm i dont mean a few cuts here and there, i would burn myself so the pain would calm me down for longer. I used to say i had a skin condition to explain the state of my hands and because of my happy,friendly manner nobody suspected i was actually selfharming – to the point that i have one hand and arm covered in scars and the other hand i burned so badly i had to have a skin graft. Good news is although the urges to selfharm are still there i have managed not to do it for around a year…..but only because i was so depressed last year it would have been too much effort to kill myself never mind hurt myself. All this aside please could someone tell me if i should reveal this info…….the only time i am safe is when i’m asleep so i buy lots of psychiatric med online like sleeping pills, valium, lorazapam etc. I get these meds from my psych too but the dose he gives me just isnt enough which is why ive resorted to buying online. Im aware there could be anything in the but that just reflects that i dont care cause it would be a relief to die. Should i admit this cause i guess i’m addicted to prescription meds. i would love to return to my self employed job but i know that right now i’m nowhere near well enough to do so. Do i admit that i am so desperate i have to take .meds i buy online just to get through the day? I’ve tried to killl myself 5x this year alone and never told a soul so i’m not attention seeking. It seems like God just wont take me. Do i admit about buying meds just to get me through the day or would that just make them stop my benefits so i couldnt buy them? Please, please someone answer cause my appt is at 9.10am tomorrow.

    Comment by helen — April 1, 2012 @ 2:31 pm

  153. Hello Helen.

    The short answer is yes, admit everything that is affecting your health, tell them about your self harm, make sure you tell them everything, if they stop your benefit it will not be so they can stop you from buying them.
    If you fail the assessment then you can appeal and get the assessment rate, we can show you how, and we can show you each step of the way, you can log in here http://dwpexaminations.blacktrianglecampaign.org/phpBB3/ and get loads of help, just think up a username.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 1, 2012 @ 3:55 pm

  154. thank you for replying to my message. I guess i’ll just go and hope for the best. Whenever i go to my gp or psych i write down how im feeling cause i find it too hard to talk. Could i do this with them and then answer anything they want to ask me after that. I really do find it so hard to admit i’m unwell out loud but i can write well and certainly admit things id never get out my mouth. Or would they just think if i can write so clearly etc theres nothing wrong with me???

    Comment by helen — April 1, 2012 @ 6:08 pm

  155. According to atos..if you can use a laptop.or watch tv.you dont have a mental illness….eg depression…sad but true.

    Comment by rachael — April 1, 2012 @ 6:18 pm

  156. Hi Helen.

    You can certainly write down how your feeling and hand it over, I don’t remember or recall or know of any law or rule that says you cant.

    Anyway your talking as if the person you are going to see is some kind of god or something, they are nothing of the sort, in fact most of them are scared of their own shadows, most of them are terrified to do home visits, not only are they moral cowards they are physical cowards as well.

    Never bow and scrape to these people just go and explain your health problems or write them down whatever suits you…not them, and get it over with, I went for an assessment today it lasted 20 minutes and I left, there was no problems, if you do get any issues it will be when the DWP send you the brown envelope.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 1, 2012 @ 7:30 pm

  157. I have the ESA 50 form too fill in. I posted before, but i have another question. I have Chronic Pancreatitis/depression/panic attacts/IBS/Liver disease, also i am an Alchoholic..
    When i take a bad Pancreatitus attack, i am in bed for 5/6 days, not able too walk/eat or really get out of bed. I sleep sitting up in the fetal position (that’s if i fall asleep).

    When filling out the form, should i fill it in as if it was my ‘worst’ day or just like i have mild symptons which i get every 3/4 days?
    I cannot travel on public transport because of my IBS & nerves. I have only left the house once this year & cannot speak on the phone or talk to other peaple.

    Can you help please?

    Comment by Anonymous — April 1, 2012 @ 11:55 pm

  158. Hello Anonymous.

    That’s the recommended procedure, fill it in as if it’s your worst day.
    You will have two roads you can possibly go down now, ask for a home visit or go to the face to face.

    No one can tell you which one you should choose, the face to face has less problems but the demand for a home visit has certain issues attached, and here they are, the first thing you will find is that they will ask you to get some kind of proof from your GP that you should have a home visit, if you can provide that then you will find they will send you a letter demanding you attend an assessment at their centre anyway or lose your benefits, if you refuse and still insist in a home visit then another letter will arrive in the future which will say something like ‘You did not attend your assessment at such and such a date therefore you are no longer entitled to benefits etc’, then you send another letter saying you asked for a home visit and have already sent on the proof that you need (Which they asked for) from from your GP, then another letter will arrive saying you have the right to appeal if you think our decision is wrong etc.

    And on and on it goes, the only reason you would ask for a home visit is if you are paralysed and cannot walk at all or at deaths door, anything else leads to your worst nightmare, benefits stopped, having to appeal to prove you need a visit at your home rather than a face to face etc.

    It’s all designed that way to totally put you off and force you to attend, of course if you just can’t go then you can’t go, it all depends on how much hassle you are willing to take, some people have done it and got the domiciliary visit but you really have to be in a bad way if you are willing to go through all that just to avoid a face to face.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 2, 2012 @ 9:47 am

  159. I went for my Medical assessment in August 2011, and you guessed it I scored NIL points. I also suffer with anxiety and depression and Fibro Myalgia, I have not been out of the house for 2 years, because of the pain and anxiety I suffer. I was in a terrible state during the examination, telling the NURSE I was having a lot of pain, which she completely ignored, and most of the time I was in tears because of the anxiety I was feeling. When I received my brown envelope, telling me I had failed and read the NURSES report, nothing was said about the pain or anxiety I suffered on that day. My Employment Support Allowance was stopped straight away. Needless to say I appealed straight away, so I was put on the lower rate of ESA and had 7 months of waiting for my appeal to be heard.. I attended my hearing on the 26th March 2012, and again my anxiety levels were sky high, and I sat in front of the appeal Judges shaking and crying, but answered their questions to the best of my ability. I received their decision within 10 minutes after the hearing and they had awarded me 27 points saying I was not fit for work, but placed me in the Work Activity group what the DWP had asked for if they found for me. Result…. you would all say, but think again, because the day after winning my appeal, I received a phone call from the DWP telling me since January of this year because of the new reforms the Government have rushed through, anyone claiming ESA for 12 months and in the Work Activity Group will have it stopped. I had just reached the 12 months. Because my Husband (can I say the word Husband now), has a works pension, I am now not entitled to claim anything, because it is more than £125,50 a week the Government say you can live on.I have worked for 35 years paying tax and national insurance into the system, and it means nothing. This Country is a joke and its going to get worse…. So Good Luck to everybody.

    Comment by J Lucas — April 4, 2012 @ 1:07 pm

  160. I so sorry this has happened to you, all that stress for nothing.. The people who have worked and paid into the system are the ones being penalised because they are the easy targets. My view is they should be getting the people who have claimed for 10, 20 and even 30 yr with no checks or medicals, it’s easy to do a database search for those people. They are the ones who have abused a system with no checks and before everyone has a go at me, I personally know many people who have claimed I.B for that length of time and are perfectly able to do some type of work, some actually do do some work (cash in hand).

    But then some of these people are the ones who continue to abuse ESA, by throwing a temper tantrum during the medical they are automatically deemed unfit, sadly as with DLA it’s the genuine who are suffering.

    Comment by Beth — April 4, 2012 @ 1:22 pm

  161. Hello Jackie.

    The DWP must feel proud of themselves, they have got you into the WRAG and they knew fine well what that means.
    I hope you had some representation at your appeal ? you can still ask the appeal tribunal for a statement of reasons, and get help to see if they have broken the law in some way (Appeal on a point of law) if so then you can submit an appeal to try and get in the support group, 27 points is a lot of points to give someone and then stick them in the Work related activity group.
    You have absolutely nothing to lose and you may even gain, so as I said if you didn’t have a representative then get help from welfare rights or the CAB and see if you can go down that road.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 4, 2012 @ 1:46 pm

  162. went to cab last week march 2012 they made a call for me to find out what group im in if they could, because its been 7mths since questinaire was filled in and sill no anwser cab were told it will be delt with when they can,is this right.

    Comment by steve d — April 4, 2012 @ 5:54 pm

  163. Hello Steve d.

    No it’s not right, 7 flippen months ? it’s out of order that’s what it is, what did the CAB say ? and I have to assume you believe you should be in the support group ?, is that correct ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 4, 2012 @ 7:27 pm

  164. cab was disapointed they av taken so long and av requested to get involved with my case and yes my self and doctors agree i should be in support group.

    Comment by steve d — April 5, 2012 @ 5:07 pm

  165. Hi Steve d.

    There’s no excuse for having you wait all that time, it’s an absolute disgrace, it just shows they can do what they like with no accountability to anyone.
    Could you keep us updated, It would be interesting to see what explanation they manage to think up..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 5, 2012 @ 5:43 pm

  166. Are CAB appealing to the upper tribunal (formally commissioners) on your behalf. In order to do this you need someone experienced in this area of advice and law.

    The DWP can only appeal against a Tribunal’s decision, if the Tribunal make what’s called an ‘error of law’. You have the same rights as the DWP if you think a Tribunal has erred in law, and it applies to all benefits, not just ESA.

    WHAT IS AN ERROR OF LAW ?

    The basic rules are outlined in Commissioners decisions R(A) 1/72 and R(I) 14/75 in turn based on the principles stated in Global Plant Ltd v Sec of State for Social Services (1972) IQB

    A decision of a Disability Appeal Tribunal, Social Security Appeal Tribunal, or a Medical Appeal Tribunal may be erroneous in law if :

    1) there has been any breach of the rules of natural justice ( loosely meaning ‘fair play at work’)
    or
    2) there has been a failure to comply with the requirements to record in writing adequate reasons for the decision and relevant findings.
    or
    3) it contains a false proposition of the law ex facie ( on the face of it)
    or
    4) it is supported by no evidence
    or
    5) the facts found were such that no person acting judicially and properly instructed as to the relevant law could have come to the determination in question.
    or
    6) Technical error. This sixth ground is NOT covered by the R(A)1/72 etc grounds.

    Generally, it could be summaried as a technical or proceedural error, a breach of the statute or of the regulations.

    Hope this is helpful.

    Comment by Beth — April 5, 2012 @ 5:55 pm

  167. yes i will keep you updated and cant wait to here my self they will get there own back in a medical and take my money away.

    Comment by steve d — April 5, 2012 @ 6:43 pm

  168. Cheers Steve d.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 5, 2012 @ 9:51 pm

  169. Hi, I wonder if you can help me. I have been claiming esa for 12 months in May and just had a letter to say it would stop at that time. I was successful on my first medical assessment and granted esa straight away. I have never claimed benefits before and, when I got a letter in November, they told me I was on work related esa, I really didn’t understand what that meant until now.
    I have degenerative joint disease and have suffered long term depression since the death of my son and sister, and also post traumatic stress since my home was broken into and I was attacked. At the medical assessment I went to I was extremely upset as I find it very difficult to go to new places and talk to strangers. Also, as I explained to the doctor, my brother in law had committed suicide the day before. I obviously wasn’t aware really what was going on.
    I rang the benefits line and they said to write a letter and ask to be put on the support group instead of work related but that I had probably left it until too late. Is this true? Do you think there is any possibility of them putting me in the support group at this stage?
    I am very limited in what I can do physically, can’t walk far, need help getting in and out of chairs, etc. I also suffer very badly from depression and anxiety and have, in the past, had counselling on three occasions and been referred to a psychiatrist for suicidal thoughts.
    Please, please could you advise my best course forward. My mood over the last few days has plummeted and I am scared this situation will draw me right back down in depression again.
    Thank you
    sandra

    Comment by sandra — April 6, 2012 @ 9:22 am

  170. Hello Sandra.

    This is one of the traps that we have been trying to highlight, now you see what they have done, when they granted you ESA and put you in the WRAG without a fight it wasn’t for your benefit, because if you are on contributory ESA they knew if you don’t appeal straight away to get in to the support group then how can you appeal in the future and justify it.

    The point is, if you appeal now when your year is up, it looks to the world that the only reason you are appealing is to avoid the time limiting.

    Obviously if you appeal now then you will be asked why did you not appeal before ? well you have a reason, which you have just explained in your post, you are suffering from Post traumatic stress disorder, and on top of that the various upheavals you have went through left you in no condition mentally to even begin to understand what an appeal was or what it meant, I believe the special circumstances rule 35(2)(b) under (non functional descriptors) should have applied in your case.

    So In my opinion the best course is to contact your nearest welfare rights or legal aid office that deals with benefits (They are all in the phone book) and explain the situation, also explain to them your health issues because it’s important that you have a reason for appealing to get in the support group now.

    Let me recap, for anyone out there who is in receipt of Contributory ESA and have either been for the functional assessment and been granted ESA work related, or just as importantly been told they are entitled to ESA work related without a face to face assessment, then beware, they are not giving you ESA for nothing because there is a trade off, which is, Contributory work related ESA is time limited to a year and it is retrospective.
    A lot of people just can’t grasp this and understand what it means.
    So their idea then is to grant you ESA, but not the support group but the WRAG because if you get the support group your ESA is not time limited to a year, but the WRAG ESA is time limited to a year, of course a person who is seriously ill and receives the WRAG ESA may be just glad they are getting something, and decide that appealing to get in the support group is just to much hassle, that’s what happened to Sandra, but didn’t realise how important getting in to the support group really is, but the truth is as you can see now it’s a TRAP.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 6, 2012 @ 10:44 am

  171. Thank you for your reply, that’s really helpful. I understand now why they were so nice! I only ever had one work related interview, 2 weeks after the assessment. The lady told me not to bother applying for jobs as my health was so bad and advised me to try for DLA. To be honest, at the time, I just couldn’t face any more stress. I lived off my savings for the first year of unemployment to avoid having to ask for benefits, stupid I know.
    Anyway, thanks for your help and I hope this will highlight the problem for someone else and they can avoid the trap
    sandra

    Comment by sandra — April 6, 2012 @ 11:46 am

  172. Hi.

    we have just scored nil points on an atos medical- the question asked were not the same -The health care professional that hel saw on the 24/02/12 – Was to say the least robotic and did not really interact with him well –I personally had to ask her to refrain from saying –I understand after the 30th time of hearing it became patronising to say the least, I felt because we were of reasonable intelligence and queried some questions that we were seen as troublesome.My partner has had wrist fusion on his right hand and now has really nasty arthritis in both and hands and shoulder. he has difficulty doing any tasks without pain -takes lots of tablets and sleeping pills. We noticed that no questions relate to pain caused by doing any of the tasks – again any repetion on moving the empty box would result in pain. what next ?

    Comment by jmk27 — April 6, 2012 @ 7:31 pm

  173. Hello jmk27.

    It’s not unusual to get zero points at an ATOS functional assessment that’s bog standard, people hobbling in on crutches have had zero points, so don’t worry about that.
    By the way didn’t you know we are not supposed to ask awkward questions ?, we are supposed to be real dumb and act real slow and just take what’s coming to us ? of course you wont because you are going to appeal, take the assessment rate (It’s the same deal as job seekers allowance) and win that appeal and get all your money they owe you backdated.
    You can start by asking the DWP to send you on the ESA 85 assessment report, the GL 24 appeal form as well as the score sheet, study the ESA 85 and get that appeal in, they give you a month, also ask for the assessment rate, if you don’t ask they don’t give.
    Don’t forget to contact welfare rights or the CAB and get the best professional advice out there, they may even represent you at the appeal.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 6, 2012 @ 8:44 pm

  174. I am kinda hoping they will catch my friend out, It makes me sick cos i suffer badly with bipolar and i have refused sick pay…however there are those out there who literaly cannot work but myself i feel working makes life more bareable. Anyways my friend every 3 months goes to the doctors gets his antidepressants claims he cannot do anything then goes home with his sick note in hand. I go up there and notice he dont take his meds wich he admits to and he is always online talking to people wether on facebook or online games (he told dwp he cannot talk to people as he would get violent so avoids it) then he is in his garden gardening (he has told dwp he cannot even do small chores himself and his garden is a big garden) and then he goes out drinking and to gigs socialising(again this goes against the whole talking to people because he would get violent and also he told dwp he rarely goes out because he would kill people). Well anyways this gets me mad and reading all the above had made me realise some of the lies he must be telling ontop of what i have catched onto. He does not know i know the extent of his lies b ut other people eg my boyfriend have noticed it without me having to say a word. I am currently trying to get him to go to job interviews but a grown 39 man…throws a tantrum and says no. Fair play but im 24 and i am in full time work and i am more ill than he is even making out. He aint ill at all….he aint taking his meds and he goes out like a normal person…Any ideas how i can get him to actualy come off the sick? I just dnt think its fair people who really cannot work like some people i know are being forced too because of people like my friend faking it.

    Comment by claire — April 7, 2012 @ 11:36 am

  175. That’s simple; Report him to the benefit fraud line (link below) and if he continues to get away with it, it proves the extent of lies he’s prepared to go to or it proves you don’t actually know exactly what’s wrong with him.

    Also, I take it your friend is still receiving I,B, which has went unchecked for to many years, this is why there’s so many unhappy people, they’ve got away with it for to long and now that’s being cracked down.

    On the other side of the coin, because medicals for ESA is so stringent many genuine people are getting caught in the trap and losing benefits, plus people who have always worked and paid into the system are only entitled to contributions based ESA for 12 mth and the 13 week plus assessment phase is counted in those 52 wks. Totally unfair to people who have worked all their lives and now find themselves sick/disabled.

    Link removed by dwpexamination management

    Comment by Beth — April 7, 2012 @ 12:06 pm

  176. We have a neighbour just like that…gets her partner to push her around in a wheelchair…she claims she cant walk or use her arms.yet ive seen her scale a 6ft fence.bounce on a trampoline.clean her windows.run about the back garden.she also claims for her kids.claiming they cant do nothing for themselves…they can manage to play on all the play equipment they have.paid for by the tax pauer.they survive on a mesly £600+ a week….amazing..yet i was turned down

    Comment by rachael — April 7, 2012 @ 12:18 pm

  177. I think we all know people like that. Yet for some reason we don’t report them and as it’s confidential I wonder why we don’t?

    Comment by Beth — April 7, 2012 @ 12:28 pm

  178. Hi Beth, Whilst I can appreciate your anger and concern that someone may be defrauding the system I have removed the link you posted for the following reasons

    1 We are not psychic and do not have X-Ray vision and because of this it would be unfair to report anyone on suspicion alone.

    2 If we do make a report it affects the person we are reporting immediately and may cause further stress leading to self harm or worse.

    3 The Government have their own methods of investigating fraud and we should leave it to them after all they are the experts.

    4 This blog and our sister forum dwpexamination.org are here to support the sick and disabled and as such will not be assisting the Government to fight fraud when they are already doing their best to tar everyone with the same brush.

    So Beth, please try to understand why I have taken the liberty of removing your link. You hit the nail on the head when you said ” medicals for ESA is so stringent many genuine people are getting caught in the trap and losing benefits”, lets not add to that total prematurely. I also ask you to remember one day you may find yourself disabled and wondering which one of your neighbours shopped you! especially if you felt you were genuinely ill.

    The war we are in affects us all and here at dwpexamination we want everyone to be given a fair test, we have never denied that and we also want to see those who commit benefit fraud punished to the enth degree and all the money tay took paid back. So we are not condoning benefit fraud, but are equally against jumping the gun

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 7, 2012 @ 12:46 pm

  179. Hi Rachael, I take it you are a victim of the present system? tell me which benefit did you apply for and why were you denied it? I am concerned because you are quickly condemning your neighbour and her children and if what you are saying is true how come she and her kids got past the all seeing eye of ATOS Healthcare or the walking talking medical dictionaries the DWP use to deny DLA. I ask you to think and if you can answer my questions before you continue to condemn your neighbour and her offspring. Remember this Government is relying upon people like yourself to denounce their neighbours, they want you to do this so they can remove any further chance you have of benefits further down the line. All I ask is you think carefully before you fall into the trap of the Daily Mail readers of this world and start believing the propaganda the con dems spout, after all, its you they want to rob and by doing their bidding you are cutting your nose off to spite your face.

    Cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 7, 2012 @ 12:52 pm

  180. Well Beth, its simple. Its because we are Human beings and have empathy with our fellow creatures. We are aware that the person we are about to condemn a scrounger may well have an illness we cant see or understand. We don’t do it because there is a small voice way back in our minds yelling “it could be you” but being drowned out by the mist and noise of anger. Lets just take a step back and think what we would do if it was us or one of our children? would we be so quick to make that call or visit that link on the web? I think not

    Cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 7, 2012 @ 12:56 pm

  181. Hi Claire, you are doing the right thing by not reporting him. I know it seem counter intuitive but you dont know what mental illness or disability he has. This Government is the worst Government Britain has had in centuries, they are attacking the sick and disabled daily and it will not stop untill we stop them. They are passing changes to the NHS and Welfare systems which only affect those who need the help of either most. They are about to condemn you and your children to a life of hell if they get the chance and will do so if we let them. This is why you should not report your friend, annoying it may be but untill you have absolute proof this matter must be left to the Government who have their own experts in fraud.

    We are not Doctors or mental health specialists so it would be grossly unfair of us to report someone for something we are not even qualified to do? Leave it to the experts Im sure they will get around to stopping his benefits soon, after all no one seems to be passing the ATOS test since the “improvements”

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 7, 2012 @ 1:03 pm

  182. For information I am disabled and have been through the system, I was awarded 15+ points at assessment medical and placed in the WRAG, reassessed after 8 mths and placed in the support group without a medical so my contributions based ESA continues. Yes I was lucky or am I sick/disabled with poor quality of life?
    I’ve also worked despite disability for DWP and seen first hand the fraud that goes on, sadly without information from the public or expensive investigations (at tax payers expense) these people continue to get away with it to the detriment of the genuine….. and yes I am very angry at this.

    Comment by Beth — April 7, 2012 @ 2:36 pm

  183. Hi Beth, We have spoken a long time ago and you have made your point. The reason this platform and our sister forum exists is to give those who are victims of the underhanded tactics ATOS and their DWP paymasters have adopted and are applying to those of us, like you who have legitimate reason to claim welfare benefits.

    Our war is with these two perpetrators of legalized fraud who appear to be unaccountable to no one. I can take your view on board and understand how you feel, however, I am not going to condone shopping a neighbour. The reasons are simple, first this is what the Government want us to do and secondly because I can not personally say I know of one person who is illegally claiming benefits. That does not mean they arent, I just do not have sufficient evidence to support doing that.

    So rather than shopping my neighbour I just prefer to let the Government do their own dirty work.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 7, 2012 @ 4:14 pm

  184. I’ve just been kicked of ESA after being on it a year and failing to attend three of these ATOS meetings.

    I simply refuse to attend as they’re not qualified medical practitioners or even trained in mental health; that being being my issue – I’ve most likely got bi-polarity, ADHD and OCD. I’m awaiting the results of an initial mental health evaluation but put it this way I’m not fit for work as I’m likely to snap the neck of the first person to bother me, I’ll probably want to hug them after when I feel guilty but I don’t manage things as well as I did for most of my life. I’ve always been like this but till a year ago I’ve always supported myself and been in control.

    My moods are insane, I can go from feeling amazingly creative and spending hours on the piano making stuff up then other times I’m feeling like I want to destroy the world and I’m breaking inanimate objects. It’s not good and I wouldn’t employ myself in this current state; that said I’ve been an employer, ran a business, paid staff, managed them and myself as PAYE, NI contributions from an employers side and even corporation tax when we were making a profit, not to mention VAT every quarter, always on time too.

    I love my creative side and hate my dark side, the Dr wants to put me on stuff based on fluoride which is a no-no to me as I know that would dumb down my creativity and I’d rather die than lose that. I’m not taking Prozac or anything that’s based on fluoride.

    So, for me right now they’ve left me with nothing except a little council paid rent (and a deficit), all because I point blank refuse to see someone who isn’t a Dr about my condition as it’s akin to taking your car for it’s MOT at the hairdressers and getting a hair cut down the garage. Whilst we’re at it let’s take our cat to the bakers and see if there’s any nice cream cakes down the vets. It’s a stupid situation.

    I’m angry that I’ve paid so much into the system, contributed over a million pounds to our economy and am left with nothing.

    I’ve appealed their decision to sack me from ESA, that could take nine months I’ve been told. I’ve reapplied for it this morning and have been told I’ll need to see ATOS before they pay me. Not happening when I know with all certainty they’ll fail me. My only option right now is to take out a crisis loan, so I’ve got no cash and it isn’t looking like there’s going to be any coming in soon and now they want me to borrow fiat currency that doesn’t exist, isn’t backed by anything and can’t ever be paid back. Not by me and not by the way the financial system works. I just want some of the tax money I paid back till I’m back on my feet and firing on all 8 cylinders again.

    I might have no option but to mug a weed dealer for their stock, take over their turf and make cash by being part of the black market. There’s a higher morale ground doing that than working for ATOS and other than selling my anal virginity I can’t think of any other way to make ends meet. I don’t want to but they’re forcing my arm and taking away all my other options.

    I’m really not well, my moods and energy are all over the place, I try to do too many things at once like juggling ten balls and end up dropping everything. It isn’t that I don’t want to work, hell I do, I miss having a £4,000 take home each month, I miss having the esteem of knowing I made that myself, I miss my pride in work and miss the social aspect of working too. Shit, I even miss being able to moan about paying corporation tax and VAT plus look down my nose at those on benefits (d’oh. pride, fall, karma) but I’m just not fit to get out of bed sometimes, can’t sleep due to high energy levels many nights, get anxious, stressed and have such negative thoughts of self-loathing.

    Thank you Government for looking after me as well as you have done. You’ve honestly inspired me to think about being a career criminal through dealing weed. I’d rather be back on my feet contributing to the white economy but if they’re going to kick me whilst I’m down and offer me no help at all now I’ll take my focus to the dark side and make sure they never get another penny of income tax from me as long as I live.

    PS if you run this site the JavaScript resizing of this text area can best be described as fucking annoying!

    Comment by Angry former contributor to the economy — April 10, 2012 @ 11:47 am

  185. Hello and welcome to the blog Angry former contributor to the economy. Most of the good folks here are just like you Angry former contributor to the economy. We were angry 3 and a half years ago when we started this fight with the DWP. we are sick to death of this Government and ATOS and it is our goal to put both out of business at the earliest possible opportunity. We have been here a long time and know the system well, we like people to come here and vent their spleen, comment or just visit. Hell we hope they all join our forum too and continue to help us with the good fight over at http://www.dwpexamination.org so I would just like to welcome you in a civilized manner and to inform you that your use of Java script to read our blog is not my fucking fault OK!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 10, 2012 @ 4:24 pm

  186. Hahaha well said DWP. On a serious note, is everyone that has too fill in the ESA50 form called up for an assesment?

    Thanks

    Comment by Anonymous — April 11, 2012 @ 2:01 pm

  187. Not everyone but most is what we are experiencing, I would give the most possible information on how your disability affects your functionality at work on the ESA50 and back that up with solid evidence from your medical expert. The more evidence you provide the more difficult it is for them (ATOS) to deny you sufficient points to retain your benefits.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 11, 2012 @ 6:08 pm

  188. Bloody dictators, stop giving benefits to asylum seekers etc and giving methadone to drug addicts, when cancer victims are denied medication due to funding, now disabled people are victimised, do they think I enjoy crippling pain every second that’s made me attemp to take my life, great Britain is a joke I want to work yet my spine is in operable at 40 years old if fixed I’d go and work and have a life again!

    Comment by Magpie — April 12, 2012 @ 12:12 am

  189. I have now been kicked off Housing Benefit and sent a bill for over £1,700 demanding I pay back rent of they take me to court.

    I am not well enough to work, have been told my appeal has been rejected as I failed to attend a medical examination by someone who’s not a fully trained GP. I am not seeing anyone about my health who is not fully trained, anything but is stupid.

    I am fucking livid and this is having a seriously retrograde and detrimental effect on my mental well being.

    They’ll give money to immigrants, I didn’t care about them before but I do now, smack heads get money, fucking foreigners get money, work shy fucks who don’t deserve shit get fucking money.

    Where’s mine? C^^ts.

    Comment by Angry former contributor to the economy — April 17, 2012 @ 11:44 am

  190. Just a little update after having come off the phone to my GP, a real proper, fully trained GP not like the soulless bastards ATOS employ and he’s referring me to a specialist now as my psych nurse suspects I’ve hypo-mania, bi-polarity and ADHD.

    There you go folks, if you lose your ability to work you get shat on from a great height and get NO HELP AT ALL.

    Mental health issues, ahh get back to work or just die will you – that’s how I feel the Government is treating me.

    Comment by Angry former contributor to the economy — April 17, 2012 @ 12:44 pm

  191. please stop the c…t word appearing on blogs we are all upset and rightly so but there is no need for it thanks

    Comment by steve d — April 17, 2012 @ 12:51 pm

  192. just updateing you nearly 8mths gone still no action from dwp about which group i gpt to go into even after they contacted doctors and hospital about me.

    Comment by steve d — April 17, 2012 @ 12:56 pm

  193. I understand you are angry, Angry former contributor to the economy we all are and can express ourselves wqually well if we try to self moderate. Please feel free to vent your spleen that why we are here but please remember we have a couple of younger readers. I cant be any more fair than that my friend.

    I edited the c word by the way, first time ever I think. Could be wrongthough because we have been fighting ATOS and the DWP for nearly 4 years now and are making headway.

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 17, 2012 @ 3:22 pm

  194. I know and its difficult but you must remember this is not personal, they treat every one of us in the same dreadful way. Once you grasp this concept you begin to realise it is all a big game and ATOS are simply using every tool available to them to get 1 million off sickness benefits by end of 2012. They admit themselves they can not meet the parameters of their contract with the DWP yet our Governmant continue to pay them 100 million quid a year. Its a disgrace and we are fighting them every inch of the way.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 17, 2012 @ 3:30 pm

  195. OK Steve we are all a little uptight too and it can take time to get used to self moderation. We do our best though so bear with us.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 17, 2012 @ 3:31 pm

  196. This is becoming more common, you could consider contacting your jobcentreplus to see why you havnt had a decision?

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 17, 2012 @ 3:32 pm

  197. thanks for your time you always give us your best.

    Comment by steve d — April 17, 2012 @ 6:03 pm

  198. I av they just told me to wait they also said there is no time limit and will let me no when ready.

    Comment by steve d — April 17, 2012 @ 6:05 pm

  199. hi folks,got a phone call from ESA saying i had no points after my ATOS medical, and would have to come off esa ,and would have to sign on…I have neurological nerve probs ,and am in pain most of time,knees arms tingling fingers ect.i explained to the HCP that i have an op to take a disk out of my neck and the recovery time is about 6 wks.to no avail..i have worked for 37 yrs and paid all my NI ??? WHAT A PLACE THE UK IS.better off being a waster!!

    Comment by Colin — April 17, 2012 @ 6:59 pm

  200. Hi Colin and welcome to the blog, it would be great if you could give us a bit more information ie time line of events etc so we can help. To begin with though based in what you have told us. You dont have to sign on for JSA at all, if you appeal the atossers decision which I hope you do you can call your local jobcentre, ask for a GL24 form tell them you are appealing the decision and request to be put on the assessment rate. This is the same as JSA and you get to keep any rent or council tax rebates you may be getting. Did you get the name of the person who said you had to sign on for JSA because he or she need to be reported for maladministration, they are lying.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 17, 2012 @ 8:42 pm

  201. wow, all that was very eye opening. I have just had to fill in another DLA1A and have been ‘told’ I shall have to attend a medical. On my form I would like to put down that I do comp’ work for local youth group rather than sitting doing nothing, but, if I do will they then say I am ok for work? I do this in my own time and it is never for any length of time.
    Some of the ailments I have are to embarassing to discuss and I am dreading having to tell them and write it down. Help please.

    GrannyB

    Comment by Sandra Brown — April 18, 2012 @ 1:29 am

  202. Hello Sandra.

    Well when you appeal you will need to tell the appeal panel your ailments so better to get it over with at the ATOS assessment because if you don’t tell them straight they will use it against you by omitting it from the assessment report, they use everything against you by the way, the very fact that you can walk there on your own initiative they will and always do use that against you.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 18, 2012 @ 7:58 am

  203. just sat here reading all the questions …. its like a questionaire joke book’ yes i experienced it , was a real interigation 1hr 10 min i was in there for, my mum came in with me and we tried to tell the woman/nurse whatever she was about past events when we were told with a dissmisive hand gesture ( she put her hand infront of mums face and said STOP!! i only want to know what hapopened in the last 6 weeks anything else prior to that is irrelivant … she said !! ive stated this in my appeal letter as ive been sick for 20yrs not just 6 damn weeks ) ) talk about rude. now my mum is a strong woman unlike myself even she felt belittled , after going through the usual q’s she then started asking me what music i liked to listen to …… what the hell is it to do with them what music i enjoy ? it was a total invasion of my privacy and im so angry i have been to a few over the 20 yrs of been unable to work usually only takes 15 min then out , she seemed nice at the begining …. trust nobody is my moto now especially the gov …. nosey b******s … rant over :)

    Comment by steffi mae — April 19, 2012 @ 8:31 am

  204. My IB50 form was completed and sent in before the closing date in nov 2011, didn’t get asked to do a medical (as yet) because of my condition..still had no word of decision…it’s a very stressful time, you feel quite powerless.

    Regarding comments above about benfit fraudsters, I know of someone who is taking the P out of the system, having got away twice with fraud because of hotshot legal aid lawyer is still lying and claiming IB and DLA I know this for a fact because they boast about it. They get much more money than me, have a better quality of life than most people working and struggling to make ends meet..It’s partially because of people like this why genuine claimants are being hauled over the coals and subjected to the Spanish Inquisition!

    Comment by Eponoymous — April 19, 2012 @ 2:14 pm

  205. @Nelson, Apologies for my post requiring an edit.

    I’m not being assessed by ATOS as they’re not fully qualified general or psychiatric practitioners, therefore they’ve cut everything off. Appealing takes months, I’m not reapplying either. If they’re going to treat me like this then I’m vowing to get back on track and reinvent myself.

    I feel fortunate that I have a valued skill set I can sell, I just need to get my focus and energy levels balanced which with hypo-mania is always a challenge and the problem in the first place……

    Good luck folks.

    Comment by Angry — April 19, 2012 @ 2:58 pm

  206. Received my requested esa85 medical form.
    It says Prognosis. I advise that a return to work could be considered within 3 months.

    If the DM agrees with atos does that mean my benefit will stop when DWP inform me of their decision or in 3 months?

    The atos nurse said I have occasional thoughts of suicide. I did not and have never said this in any circumstance. I would like to have the record corrected. Is this feasible?

    There are other untruths in the report which I shall address at my appeal. I’m assuming the DM is going to withdraw benefit.

    Comment by DeCam — April 19, 2012 @ 3:04 pm

  207. Don’t worry, all that means is they will review you again in 3mths. If the DM place’s you in the WRAG and you feel you should be in the support group you can appeal that decision.

    The medicals reports of almost everyone are full of untruths and assumptions, this is why so many people are winning their case at appeal.

    Comment by Beth — April 19, 2012 @ 3:11 pm

  208. Thanks Beth. Does that mean I would need another medical in 3 months or that I MIGHT be put in the WRAG? So there is some hope I haven’t lost benefit?
    I haven’t got the points awarded yet so was assuming I got no points. If I indeed got no points would it have said can return to work immediately?

    Comment by DeCam — April 19, 2012 @ 3:47 pm

  209. Thats OK, just keep posting we are all willing to help and support you through this.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 19, 2012 @ 3:56 pm

  210. This is quite serious and must be taken up with the manager of the centre you attended. Saying someone has suicidal thoughts without supporting evidence is dangerous and this person should be suspended from practicing now. Please complain immediately.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 19, 2012 @ 3:58 pm

  211. Also said I had thoughts of self harm, I don’t and never have.

    Is it the manager of the centre or atos itself I should contact?

    Is there one overall manager of the centre? Don’t want to write to the wrong person.

    Should I tell CAB or my MP?

    What might I realistically expect to happen if I complain, can they amend my report? Do they film the medical to back up my complaint can he just say well he did say it?

    Comment by DeCam — April 19, 2012 @ 4:25 pm

  212. Is it the manager of the centre or atos itself I should contact?

    You should write a letter of complaint to the manager of the ATOS centre you visited, you do not need his name simply address your letter as private and confidential, the centre manager then the address

    Is there one overall manager of the centre? Don’t want to write to the wrong person.

    Yes there is

    Should I tell CAB or my MP?

    Lets deal with one person at a time that way life is a little easier

    What might I realistically expect to happen if I complain, can they amend my report? Do they film the medical to back up my complaint can he just say well he did say it?

    ATOS should investigate and send their findings to you, if the answer is not what you expected dont be surprised tell us and we will advise on the next stage of the complaint. Either he did or didnt say it, if ATOS have covertly recorded your assessment and provide this as evidence it simply means wer can do likewise and covertly record for our selves and use it as evidence the sword is double edged

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 19, 2012 @ 5:34 pm

  213. Dwpexamination thanks for your advice.

    I have just found an atos comments complaints booklet I picked up from the centre and it outlines atos complaints procedure. There is a form at the back of the leaflet and it says to send it to customer relations manager atos Otley road lawns wood Leeds.

    So my question is to send my complaint there, Leeds OR as you said before to the manager at my local assessment centre?

    Not trying to be difficult but want to make them take my complaint seriously.

    Comment by DeCam — April 20, 2012 @ 11:57 am

  214. OK one more time, I am suggesting you write to the manager of the centre you were assessed at because he is the person responsible for the actions of his staff, not some unknown pen-pusher 300 miles away. The reasoning behind this is to have the maximum effect upon the person who allegedly assessed you. Your complaint is about them and you want them to know you have complained and the only way they are going to find out you have complained is because their manager will have to interview them and thus tell them a complaint has been made. The object of this exercise is to make the life of the liar you saw an absolute misery, you want this bozo to fell sick to the stomach every time he crosses the threshold of ATOS offices. They have put you under intense stress and pressure, lied about you and your state of health and you should;d have justice, let them see what its like to have the worry and stress you have suffered. If you do decide to follow the directions in the ATOS guide then the likelihood of the alleged HCP ever knowing you have complained is limited because it will probably disappear along with other critical mail. Hope this helps and good luck with your complaint, keep us posted.

    Cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 20, 2012 @ 12:47 pm

  215. Ok thanks I needed to know the reasoning and now I will write the manager of the office I attended.

    I’m not normal I have to get things as straight as I can before I do anything.

    Comment by DeCam — April 20, 2012 @ 1:56 pm

  216. Youre welcome

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 20, 2012 @ 4:26 pm

  217. Hi, sent my form away today. I am confused as to what they can put me on if i have to attend an interview. Is IB done away with now?

    Comment by Anonymous — April 20, 2012 @ 5:02 pm

  218. Hello Anonymous.

    Not sure what you mean ? what form do you mean ?, do you mean the ESA 50 Questionnaire ? or the GL 24 appeal form ?.
    Yes IB is being done away with, everyone is being assessed for ESA now.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 20, 2012 @ 5:25 pm

  219. I had my medical today in Exeter, it was as great as I thought it would be. I have suffered with depression/anxiety and panic attacks since my teens (I am now 34) due to childhood abuse and later in my life, rape and an attempt on my life by an abusive partner. I am also diabetic and suffer with sciatica. I only started getting treatment for my mental health illnesses in my late 20′s and I now have doctors saying I am schizophrenic or have borderline personality disorder – they are currently treating me for the former as I exhibit more signs of it but at present they are unsure which I am afflicted with. I went along for my medical today, after an awful night involving vomitting through fear and a nasty bout of self harming. I had nobody that was able to go with me to the assessment and as per ATOS’ instructions, I took a bus there, which took all of my strength and I actually was sick again on my way to the bus stop. When I got to the centre, I was a wreck, shaking all over and sweating buckets. The receptionist was really nice and polite and I was seen very quickly. I was taken into the room with the ‘healthcare professional’ where I was asked about all of my meds (this took a long time as I take a lot of them). He then asked me all the questions he felt relevent to my illnesses, including a short physical to see how my back pain restricts my movements. I explained that the sciatica comes and goes and yet he wanted to poke and prod at me, which I refused as I cannot bear the thought of being touched by men. He was quite happy to accept this. The questions about my lifestyle had me in tears, rocking back and forth, pulling at my hair, hurting myself with my nails to deal with the questions he kept firing at me. I am dreading, seriously dreading the results. I am grateful for all of the information posted here as I know I can appeal if I don’t get enough points but the stress of all of this is putting me so close to the edge, I am scared I will go over and try to kill myself again.I have an 11 year old son who is my carer, he is registered with a young carers group locally, that offer support to children that care for ill parents and though I can’t bear the thought of leaving him alone, but this whole debaucle of an assessment has really knocked me sideways. I have no support from my family as they all live too far away, we are on our own here. Just thinking of having to go through appeals is making me rip my hair out literally. I feel so sorry for all of the people who have genuine illnesses that are knocked back by ATOS – the guy I saw today couldn’t have been more robotic if he tried. He upset me so much that at one point I started shouting at him and thought I was going to hit him. I don’t have any idea how this is all going to pan out now but I forsee a battle. I just hope I am strong enough to fight it. Thank you for all of the information you have posted here, it’s really helpful. Good luck to everyone with their assessments xx

    Comment by Jesse Bear — April 20, 2012 @ 8:44 pm

  220. Hello Jesse.

    If the worst comes to the worst then make sure you get help from your nearest welfare rights office or CAB, have you contacted MIND they can help as well, you can also get lots of help here as well http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 20, 2012 @ 8:49 pm

  221. Hi there, I have not contacted MIND, i wasn’t aware that they could help that way, thank you for letting me know. I have a good team of people on my side that I think could help me if I need to appeal, social worker, psychiatrist, GP etc. Thank you very much for the advice, I really appreciate it and will have a look x

    Comment by Jesse Bear — April 20, 2012 @ 8:53 pm

  222. hi ive just came across this site,i ont understand much about this,,i have been on esa,for i think near 3 yrs i didnt have an assesment but was unaware that i had 2.i have been to the job centre interviews at the begining,i still send in medical cert,still to date,i dont understand whats happening with me,i suffer from psorasis and arthiritis,depression an anxiety,i didnt no there was differnet groups,maybe i havent been placed on a group yet,but there is something i think i read,in a letter about work related,i dont understand so if anyone can help me no where,i am at this stage i wud greatly appreciate

    Comment by rose — April 20, 2012 @ 11:51 pm

  223. There are a few more physically orintated trick questions posted here you might like to add to your list.
    http://tia-junior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/wca-underhand-questions-be-on-your.html
    The first one appears in the WCA Handbook, the others are not so formally documented and DWP will not confirm or deny their use. Worrying is that Decision Makers are encouraged to be “proactive” (sic) and develop their own decision making criteria, which simply adds inconsistency to all of the other flaws.

    There is also the matter of the “hypothetical wheelchair” that is beyond belief – see http://tia-junior.blogspot.co.uk/2012/03/more-wca-dishonesty-foi-confession-from.html. This is deemed a perfectly legitimate approach by Atos, sanctioned by DWP – it too appears in the official WCA Handbook.

    It seems however that neither Atos nor DWP use Voice Risk Analysis (“Lie Detection”) software on their phone systems.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 21, 2012 @ 6:09 am

  224. Hello tiajunior.

    Thanks for letting us all aware of another DWP dirty trick, I’ve copied and pasted it here because a lot of people don’t look at links (Even though they bloody well should) I have to tell you that on our forum http://www.dwpexamination.org a member called Bert has just won an appeal, he doesn’t use a wheelchair but was asked if he did have a wheelchair then did he think he could propel it ? and how far did he think he could propel it ?, so you can see the tribunals might have seen the injustice and have been issued guidance but all the same are in on this scam, they have been told to ask this question and if the claimant doesn’t answer it in the correct manner they will not be eligible for ESA.

    More WCA dishonesty – FoI confession from DWP

    When assessing mobility within a WCA, Atos HCPs are allowed to recommend the use of a wheelchair to improve mobility (if they think it will do this) for someone who does not normally use one. They can do this without any specific discussion with the claimant or their GP. They are not however allowed to recommend treatment – make sense of this if you can, but as unbelievable as it is, it is true. Decision Makers are allowed to do the same thing, without specifically declaring it to claimants – all the claimant is told is that for mobility, they have scored (say) zero points.

    This methodology was introduced in March 2011, presumably with the approval of Professor Harrington and is dishonest to say the least, as the claimant is not made aware of this trick before, during or after their WCA.

    Through appeals, the courts have seen the injustice and dangers of DWP’s approach and have issued guidance. From this FoI request, it appears that DWP thinks it is outside of the law and can ignore the advice.

    http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wheelchairs_assignment_by_dms_no

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2012 @ 7:56 am

  225. Hello again tiajunior.

    There’s a lot of great information on your Blog and with your permission I would like to put some of it on our forum http://www.dwpexamination.org, it will be credited to you and your Bog of course and your link will be available beside everything.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2012 @ 8:05 am

  226. Hi. Thanks foir asking, but feel free, that’s what it’s there for. I don’t have the patience or the expertise to set up or maintain the brilliant websites that you guys do. If it helps, when I add something I usually tweet it too (https://twitter.com/#!/Tiajunior). I often have more than I post, so always happy to clarify/expand if helpful.

    Also occasional pieces at
    http://helpmeinvestigate.com/welfare/the-work-capability-assessment-audio-recording
    http://helpmeinvestigate.com/welfare/why-doesnt-the-dwp-collect-data-on-the-accuracy-of-decision-making

    I have used FoI extensively and have just about learnt the knack of making DWP squirm a bit. I think it is invaluable on the basis that an admission from them is a lot more powerful than an opinion from me. Sooner or later they will hang themselves.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 21, 2012 @ 11:20 am

  227. hi has anyone any thoughts on my question number 223 thanks

    Comment by rose — April 21, 2012 @ 11:42 am

  228. Yes, I have experienced firsthand the deception of what I now call the “hypothetical wheelchair”, which is given “legitimacy” in the WCA Handbook. My scenario was even more underhand. There was absolutely no mention of it during the WCA, but I did notice an unexpected, rather random comment on the ESA85 about my ability to use one, but thought little of it. Then I was awarded the inevitable zero points and ended up on the phone with a senior Decision Maker ironically called Mr Wright! It was only after repeatedly pressing on his mobility assessment, that he explained how he had arrived at it. It was one of the few occasions in my life that I have been literally speechless.
    Worse still, once I had gathered my composure, I asked him how he had reflected this on the 2-step question on the ESA50, which I had said I could just about manage on foot, but would be a bit more difficult in my new wheelchair. He insisted that he could rely on my answer, so not a problem. I then took him through the practical scenario – wheelchair to the top of the stairs, jump out to get down the stairs and continue with my journey. But hang on; the wheelchair is stuck at the top of the stairs so now I am stranded. Believe it or not, he could not see the nonsense with this and held his ground that he had acted completely in line with DWP requirements.
    I have a number of FoI requests in and around this subject to expose how contradictory, dishonest and unrealistic their approach is and will summarise in due course. I cannot imagine Prof Harrington would support deception, but do not know if he is even aware of it. I am working on a route through the barriers to him to make sure he is.
    Some descriptors were “updated” at the same time, notably the removal of any reference to bending & kneeling. This was justified on the basis of it no longer being a feature of the modern workplace. I have more on this for another time perhaps.
    Making DWP look foolish and vindictive is becoming increasingly easy, but we haven’t yet reached the threshold that will make them substantially change direction.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 21, 2012 @ 11:45 am

  229. Q223: Too much to cover here. Suggest you get to your local CAB, who are well up on ESA and have a good track record

    Comment by tiajunior — April 21, 2012 @ 11:49 am

  230. PS The really cynical view is that if you can get to a WCA, you must be fit enough to work!

    Comment by tiajunior — April 21, 2012 @ 11:52 am

  231. did you get my reply to 226 earlier – it doesn’t seem to be here?

    Comment by tiajunior — April 21, 2012 @ 11:54 am

  232. i dont understand to much to cover do u mean on this site or,,my question is to much??

    Comment by rose — April 21, 2012 @ 12:08 pm

  233. Hello Rose.

    It sounds to me that you have been placed on ESA the work related group, you could have been placed in the support group but you have to be in a really really bad way to be put in the support group Rose.

    Are you getting the full rate of ESA £95 odds a week ?. If so then I don’t really see the point in worrying until you are called for an assessment, you need to explain by giving more information Rose because we don’t know anything about your health issues.

    For instance you could be house bound and cannot get out ? you could be having an operation soon etc, you could be on Contributory ESA as opposed to Income related ESA, yes it can make a difference to your future depending which one you are on, if you tell me which one you are on then I can explain the difference.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2012 @ 1:25 pm

  234. tiajunior.

    Ok thanks for that, will stick your link beside them, if everyone was like you then maybe we wouldn’t be in this mess, there’s far to many people who can help a little but sit around doing nothing, they just go to various Blogs and forums and suck up all the information that’s on them and their attitude is thanks for the help BUT I’M ALRIGHT JACK NOW.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2012 @ 1:29 pm

  235. Hello tiajunior.

    Yes got it, 227.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2012 @ 1:38 pm

  236. hi thanks for your reply,,about 3yr ago,i was on IS,they said my youngest child turn 14,i has to aplly for esa,i did, they said i had to go 2 interviews,i did,,i was getting 65 odds a week,for the 3yrs,till about few weeks ago now i am getting 95 odds it went up,,it give me a big letter telling all my payments from 2010 i dint unerstand it,,i didnt go to any assesment at all..my disabilites are depression anxiety psoratic arthiritis and psorasis,thanks

    Comment by rose — April 21, 2012 @ 1:46 pm

  237. If you have a pulse then according to ATOS twat care you are fit for work..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2012 @ 1:47 pm

  238. ps i still have tto supply med notes from my doctor the last note was dec 2011 for 6 months,,

    Comment by rose — April 21, 2012 @ 1:49 pm

  239. Hi Rose. Re: 233 – Both really – there are quite a few alternatives based on all sorts of details, but dwpexamination has started you down the right path. Contacting CAB will give you the benefit of a face to face discussion with someone local, but there are plenty of people here who can still help with anything you might want to check out.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 21, 2012 @ 1:50 pm

  240. Hello Rose.

    I think they have forgotten about you Rose, you are the only person in Britain on ESA who hasn’t been asked to attend an ATOS examination, if I were you I would keep quite about it, if you start talking about in the local tavern, you might just start giving them ideas and next thing you know you will find a white ATOS envelope on your doormat one morning.
    In other words, just carry on living and let them worry if they have or haven’t called you for an examination, provided you are still getting your money that is.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2012 @ 2:38 pm

  241. Extremely good advice!

    Comment by tiajunior — April 21, 2012 @ 3:09 pm

  242. thanks v much for reply,appreciate it,its very confusing,ill say nothing ,do u think they must think i went for it,,because my has went up to 95,,iam disabled,and rarely go out,,and just to say good luck to othersfor there assesment,ill keep watch thisve to site,becuz if they have forgot am sure,one day theyll realise,especially if i have to keep sending med notes in.my money got stopped in dec past i phoned them ,and they said it was becus my med note wasnt in.and i told them i didnt no it was due,and i told them i dint get a letter to say it was due,and the guy on the phone said am meant to keep track of them myself,which i thought was very rude of him,but got it sorted,,

    Comment by rose — April 21, 2012 @ 3:19 pm

  243. Hello Rose.

    Probably what’s happened is way back then they looked at your case file and made a decision to grant you benefits without you needing to go for a face to face, they do have a lot to get through these days so it’s possible you are at the bottom of the heap and just haven’t got round to you yet, long may that continue because believe me you don’t want to go for one of their fixed assessments, it’s heartbreaking when you get the brown letter saying you are fit for work etc.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2012 @ 3:53 pm

  244. ano,,last nite i was reading comment for hrs,,and itd scary some stories and its despicable how they can treat people,like this,but its a great wee blog for people to rant,and people can share ,good luck all,

    Comment by rose — April 21, 2012 @ 4:07 pm

  245. Rose, I suggest you make an appointment at CAB and ask them to read the letter and explain it properly for you.

    It sound’s like you were put in the work related group without the need for a medical, having to go for interviews early on certainly suggests that. But, if you were only getting £65 and that’s went up to £95 a week and you have a 14 yr old son there’s something very wrong, there’s also disability premiums you may be entitled to.

    Also, you don’t need to send sick notes (fit notes) if you’ve been assessed, you need to show the letter to someone who can explain it properly to you.

    Good luck

    Comment by Beth — April 22, 2012 @ 12:14 pm

  246. hi beth thanks fo rur reply,,the letter was sent out few mths ago,telling about my income from 2010 upword,,i must of threw it out,,,my son isnt 14 now,he is almost 17,the reason why they said i had to go to esa becuz he turn 14 so that was sept 2009 so am receiving esa from then,its was i65 or so,now its 95,th eletter only showed different rates of money,,it didnt say anything like i am pleased to inform u etc.ithe sick notes i have been giving them frm the begiining they said at the beginning,i need to send those,in ,they always sent me letters telling me they nearly expire,and if i dont said them my money wud be stopped,

    Comment by rose — April 22, 2012 @ 1:30 pm

  247. Hi again Rose I appreciate you won’t want to rock the boat (so to speak) but I still feel there’s something wrong with this and you need a benefits check from someone experienced in benefits at CAB.

    It sound’s like someone’s told you to come off Income support and claim ESA 3 yr ago, if that is the case you should have been getting the higher rate of £95 ages ago and would have been entitled to benefit for your son while he was in education. In my opinion someone has gave you very bad advice and you need to check this out.

    If I’m correct in my way of thinking, DWP may in fact owe you quite a lot of money. I’ll happily apologise if I’m wrong.

    Comment by Beth — April 22, 2012 @ 1:56 pm

  248. i think,,ill go to CAB,,but again,i have no letter maybe they can phone,,i feel very stupid,not knowing what am claiming for,thanks beth much appreciate ur help

    Comment by rose — April 22, 2012 @ 2:59 pm

  249. It doesn’t matter about the letter, if you know how much money your getting put into the bank, they’ll be able to do a benefits check to see if your getting everything your entitled to. Or like you say they can ring on your behalf and check.

    Once again, please do go and check and good luck.

    Comment by Beth — April 22, 2012 @ 4:39 pm

  250. I am due to to have my ATOS medical assesement in severall days ,and i am very cross that after reading this forum it seems that the disabled who really need help ,are being punished for fat sods who play golf and claim thousands when they are ok .
    Iam a 40s man married who worked for 22 years as a scaffolder and who through my own fault and not taking the right responsible choices ,didnt wear stafety gear , i fell and severd my leg ,after 12 operations and over 165 stitches ,i have to get my wife or eldest son to put my shoes on ,even help me on and off the toilet ,and iam a proud man who is a shadow of my former self ,but the one thing i have always had no one will ever ever get the better of me ,after 4 1/2 years iam very close to getting my law degree which i have done through hard work and lots and lots of help .
    I will go to my ATOS assesement with a digital reacorder and my wife ,i will ask them 2 questions to every one they ask me , i will before i go in prepare myself ,as i would ask any so called medical person to spend 6-8 hours with me when my moods swing in ,when i sulk,when i lash out ,when i need some pain relif for my leg at 3 in the morning ,or when iam alone in the house .
    Reading about ATOS has made mre angry and i think we have taken to much

    Comment by Antoias Fuccilio — April 24, 2012 @ 10:39 am

  251. Antoias, whatever you do, do not lose your temper. You might like to ask your Healthcare Professional precisely what type of work it is that they are assessing you to perform – it always stumps them.

    If you tell the HCP that you intend to record, it is difficult to predict the reaction you might get – they have the right not to participate, so your appointment might be rearranged. Atos themselves can provide a recording facility if they have enough notice – give them a call and tell them this is what you want. If they need more than a few days notice, they should have warned you and might have to delay the date.

    Recording secretly is not (as DWP sometimes hints) illegal as long as it is for your own private purposes. Personally, I’d try first to get them to record – they cannot refuse.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 24, 2012 @ 10:58 am

  252. I undestand what you are saying ,but unlike most people i would love to work ,and you no what i will but i will not collect supermarket trolleys ,or pick litter .As i have said i am an educated man who will not take the crap or the wool pulled over my eyes ,why cant a disabled person be angry, do i have to get my wife or my health care worker fight my battles no way .
    As i have said look at the fat people who have abused the system playing golf doing work on the side they have done it to the system working in bars in spain whilst claming benefits yes its true .
    Iam going to be really blunt if its a bit strong ok ,iam not going to go in there and be fXXXXD up my arse ,i have to much respect for myself to take it .

    Comment by Antoias Fuccilio — April 24, 2012 @ 12:24 pm

  253. Disabled people have the right to be as angry as anyone else, but just bear in mind it will not help your case.

    So you are aware, you will be assessed against the vague idea of “general work” i.e. completely non specific and they are not interested in your profession, whatever it might be.

    You need not worry over your final point. Examinations are often very superficial and do not usually include a prostate check.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 24, 2012 @ 12:32 pm

  254. Iam sorry if i come across as an angry person ,and have a very good realationship with my doctor and my physio who both talk to me as a person,its just having freinds who i have got to no through disabled groups locally all seemed upset and sadly very put on ,its just my genes ,i hate bullies and dislike any one questioning my honesty ,maybe its being at home to long and doing a law degree which at times has taken over my life .

    Comment by Antoias Fuccilio — April 24, 2012 @ 12:44 pm

  255. Hi Antoias,i would ask for your interview to be recorded…i recently had my second atos checkup.when i recieved the report back,it was full of lies, contradictions and complete rubbish…she stated i had refused the medical examination,when in fact she had told me she wasnt going to do one as she could she i was in pain…the list went on and on…i of course made a full complaint to them,just got a letter back,basically saying i was a liar and a full investigation had taken place and it was my word against hers….im in the process of appealing for ESA (again)…these people are paid by the government to fail you…end of – good luck to all..we all gonna need it :) ))

    Comment by rachael — April 24, 2012 @ 12:56 pm

  256. Being born deaf i have a lovely top of the range digital recorder which will be on the momment i enter the room ,its so small it could be a wallet ,i am doing this to protect myself ,and help everybody after me ,the digital recorder was mentioned to me by my own doctor , and after reading this foroum it makes me more determined .
    The one thing i will do is afterwards through my daughters facebook page load all the recording ,
    my freinds thinks its a bit james bond ,its just a shame no newspaer wants to help us

    Comment by Antoias Fuccilio — April 24, 2012 @ 1:11 pm

  257. Antonias…
    Most genuine disabled people who are able to, have been demonstrating in London and other areas outside of ATOS offices. Sadly there appears to be a news blackout and very little if any information about the demonstrations are shown on TV or even picked up by mainstream media publication.

    As has already been stated, ATOS assessors are not interested in you medical condition/disability, they’re assessing how that disability affects your daily life and whether you would be able to (if given support) do some type of paid work. An example would be: Someone who’s in a wheelchair could potentially do data entry in an adapted office, therefore fit for some work, or working on the paydesk in a shop/supermarket. Someone who’s deaf could for example pick up shopping trollies or rubbish in a supermarket carpark, therefore fit for some work with assistance. This is the basis of ATOS medicals and Health Care Assessors are trained in disability only and NOT in the various conditions in fact even GP’s are not trained in all illness’s/disabilities they just have a basic understanding of said conditions.

    I understand everyone’s anger at ATOS but it is in fact, the government who have pushed ahead with this, even though the computer program used is NOT FIT for PURPOSE and they’re pushing ahead with changing DLA to PIP (personal independence payments) with the same type of system!

    Comment by Beth — April 24, 2012 @ 3:44 pm

  258. ok beth i understand what you are saying and 20 people from a group of disabled freinds are in london ,including 2 blesma guys from recent conflicts in iraq, look out for them with a large banner ,
    Look i would love a job ,and when i have my law degree i will end up helping in cab unpaid but its problebly the only job i will get .
    I had a part time job at m&s last christmas i loved it ,but i felt it made them look good ,and when a disabled person came in the store i was called to help them

    Comment by Antoias Fuccilio — April 24, 2012 @ 4:48 pm

  259. Beth, I agree with you that prime accountability sits with DWP and in a sense criticism of Atos is misplaced as they are just fulfilling their contractual obligations. However, this is no excuse for poorly performed WCAs, insensitivity and a culture that is incapable of identifying its own process failures as well as playing lip service to customer service.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 24, 2012 @ 5:38 pm

  260. Well after really giving me 24hrs of me time ,and careful reflection ,ithink i will go in exremly calm ,polite and answer the questions given ,but sadly its in me to ask why iam being asked such a question .
    I have nothing personal against ATOS and if we as disabled are honest to many people who are nothing more than scum have made it hard for genuine disabled people

    Comment by Antoias Fuccilio — April 25, 2012 @ 10:46 am

  261. Morning Antoias, Great to read you’ve calmed down and reflected on the situation, I do agree with your sentiment of lashing out at the person in front of you. Sadly these people have been trained in using an inappropriate computer programme and medical assessment, my feeling is if they were honest they’d probably agree the medical is absolutely a waste of time. Also as you say it’s NOT getting the people it’s meant to off benefits, it’s a system penalising the genuine disabled/chronic sick community. It’s those people I really feel sorry for, the stress of these changes/medicals is in fact affecting many peoples already chronic health condition. I know the stress made me a lot worse and increased my pain much more than what I normally have.

    Comment by Beth — April 25, 2012 @ 10:57 am

  262. Do you no i have never ever suffered from stress ,i went through my working life with out regard for anyone bar myself ,and now with a leg that looks like a shark had a feeding frenzy i only get cross with things i should be doing ,not the the things i have done ,does that make sense .
    You no i went to a pain and stress club run by local nhs and made some real 100% freinds people if iam honest years ago i would not have given the time of day ,maybe doing my uni course has made me less stress full about my leg and somehow given my brain other thoughts .
    I have always been an agreesive person and i hate to say it even in a chair i wouldnt back off ,
    But its god to talk do you agree

    Comment by Antoias Fuccilio — April 25, 2012 @ 12:28 pm

  263. Hi again Antoias, it is good to talk and realise you’re not alone in this fight. I’ve worked in health and social care for over 20yrs (very stressful) but never encountered the kind of stress and hardship the current system is creating. While working with many disabled people who genuinely fought tooth and nail for everything, while others who were trying it on who, I refuse to work with yet they were the people who seemed to get away with benefit fraud.

    This is why I feel it’s essential our own GP’s/consultants should be the one’s who have the final say, after all we’re all different and the various conditions affect us all differently, while one person in say your’s or my situation may NOT be able to work another might relish the challenge of work with the right level of support. But which employer is going to recruit a person with a variable condition when there’s so many able bodied people out of work…. Unless, like you say it’s a tick box exercise?

    Do take your recorder to the interview and check the recording against your medical report… you’ll soon see why so many people are up in arms about these so called medicals and, perhaps your law degree will become useful in giving genuine disabled people the legal advice the desperately need.

    Comment by Beth — April 25, 2012 @ 4:03 pm

  264. after nearly 9mths of waitting DWP av put me in esa support group with out any medical i belive its because i got CAB involved they made phone calls for me and questioned why it had taken so long after myself sending all my medical history to them.

    Comment by steve d — April 26, 2012 @ 6:43 pm

  265. Hello Steve.

    Yes in all probability it’s because you got the CAB involved because if you hadn’t and just went on alone they would have thrown you to the lions.
    Anyway good work and remember sooner or later they will be back, so get ready to thwart their next attempt to deny you your rights.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 26, 2012 @ 8:32 pm

  266. Well done Steve and welcome to the world of the support group!

    Comment by Beth — April 26, 2012 @ 8:37 pm

  267. suffer a prolapsed disc , i have done for 7 years now, ive beenon esa for over two years , i had a recent medical and i felt she never examined me correctly, i took my diazepam before my examine, ive had a letter back saying expected change i advise that a return to work could be considered in 3 months in the shorter term….my condition hasnt changed im still in agony in my foot everyday and need to lay down…..do i need to appeal this? my dr has my report …thankyou

    Comment by lyn pearce — April 26, 2012 @ 9:23 pm

    Comment by lyn pearce — April 26, 2012 @ 9:31 pm

  268. Hello Lyn.

    What else did it say on the letter ? did the DWP inform you that you were fit for work ?.
    And your DR has what report ?, do you mean the ATOS ESA 85 report ?. If so I assume you gave him it ? and if so then you must have read it so what did the ATOS HCP say on there about your fitness to work other than a return to work could be considered in 3 months.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 26, 2012 @ 9:47 pm

  269. thankyou for getting babk to me, ive had this condition 7 years or more now, i sent in medical evidence mri scan , and drs letters 2 years ago, i was put in the wrag, i hadshaw trust visit me in the beginning, no i havnt been found fit for work just say considered, i am a little worried a i am in pain everyday with my l4 l5 disc prolapsed which radiates to my leg, the lady from atos healthcare made a few mistakes on my medical form which i have my dr photocopied…its a nightmare my condotion, i take diazepam to relax me with this problem, and i feel they stress me about all thism the system is so unfair, i receive lower rate disability too for my condition, do you think i need to go to cab about this ?? please get back thankyou lynette pearce

    Comment by lyn pearce — April 26, 2012 @ 9:55 pm

  270. i have to lay down every day as the pressure also builds up in my foot, i wont have an operation as im scareed and when i had a baby i had a dural tap, which put me off hospitals, ive broken my foot a few years back too, also defornmed my finger having a fall, overall my health is not good, and i feel pain in my foot everyday …atos healthcare need to look a bit closer at people not just assume thankyou lyn pearce

    Comment by lyn pearce — April 26, 2012 @ 9:59 pm

  271. im just looking one minuite..yes esa 85….its says may return to work in the shorter term….i dont understand this medical stuff but will see what i understand…prominent features she has a lumberprolapse shown mri a few years ago, l4 l5…..the pain radiates downthe right leg to the foot… epidurals,help by medicine, etc it just goes on…….when i was in the room having medical i had the pain in my foot and wasagainst the wall, because of the pain, whats going on???? last time i was sighned off for 12 months? thanks please get back lynette pearce

    Comment by lyn pearce — April 26, 2012 @ 10:10 pm

  272. nothing else was said just considered….and alot of stuff about my hand she said i fractured my hand when it was my foot these people do no lisen to disabled people its disgusting

    Comment by lyn pearce — April 26, 2012 @ 10:17 pm

  273. Hello Lyn.

    It looks as if the decision maker after looking at the evidence has decided to continue ESA at least for the moment, the fact that it says can be considered a return to work in so many months is normal because the ATOS HCP has to give an opinion on when that person may be considered ready for work and it’s normal because 3 months is the standard opinion, but the whole world knows that’s garbage, they even say people with terminal lung cancer can be considered for work in three months.
    So you don’t have to appeal against that (As long as you are not being found fit for work) because for the moment it seems you have a couple of months breathing space, but expect a white coloured envelope to fall on your doormat some day in the future for another medical and then it’s a wait to see if the decision maker is going to find you fit or unfit for work, if this is worrying you then a talk with a CAB expert can help, and that is what you should do.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 27, 2012 @ 6:42 am

  274. hello and thankyou very much for your reply i have been to my dr with a very strong letter reguarding all this because i am partially disabled and as i type still in pain , sometimes i get very cross that the fact i feel im disbelieved by these people, and my dr sees me and provides my medication all the time, the system is terrible i think putting disabled people like myself through this stress , its enough coping with my medical condition without this, this was my 4th medical…they can see me as many times as they like but i wish the same lady would see me instead of different medical people….thankyou for your help, lynette pearce

    Comment by Anonymous — April 27, 2012 @ 8:33 am

  275. yes i quite agree ill give it six mths but all your info helps.

    Comment by steve d — April 27, 2012 @ 8:52 am

  276. They must know how the atmos medical azsesment is not in any way relevant of geared towards anyone suffering wigh drhg or alcohol addicion. Just as the nhs now being my drug dealer apposed to oth uers. I know thst little or no thohght was given to assessing my addiction before agfeejng on what to supply me with every 2 weeks. I get a huge scrip and its rdmajndd thd same for years. Im also now addicted to dexamphtamjne which i wasnt before sms took over being my dealer

    Comment by Mark pugh — April 27, 2012 @ 12:46 pm

  277. Since being on esa and a maintenance script from nhs, sms depts, i am trapped in a cycle of poverty and drug taking. My life in effect is over and all i have for the futurebto look forward to is dieing

    Comment by Mark pugh — April 27, 2012 @ 12:50 pm

  278. Hello Mark.

    I hope you are going to appeal, because your chances of winning are high, you can get help here http://www.dwpexamination.org you can also get help from your local welfare rights office or CAB, these organisations are great, although busy at the moment so you need to be patient, but they can even represent you at an appeal, the main thing is Mark don’t give up, that’s what they want you to do.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 27, 2012 @ 2:14 pm

  279. are any of these so called psychiatrist who work for the dwp, a member of the (royal collage of psychiatrist)…i bet its no…the
    government i dont trust them one little bit…what are they like they still pulling the same old dirtys tricks again..there perfetic!! messing up people lives for votes…cretins

    Comment by james — April 27, 2012 @ 5:25 pm

  280. Hello James.

    They have been caught out before, calling themselves DRs and Nurses etc, now they call themselves disability annalysts. Remarkable eh ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 27, 2012 @ 5:59 pm

  281. Hi, I have got a ESA Medical Assessment coming up soon. I am very scared and terrified, this will be my first ESA Medical Assessment. I have got a disability where It’s very noticeable in public and people stare me at constantly, because of this I suffer from Depression/Self Esteem/Self conscious and Anxiety.I have also got a speech Impediment, as I was born with a Cleft Palate. I’ve read some awful stories on the internet about ATOS Medical, I am dreading it so much, what questions will they ask me? I requested for my medical to be recorded, as I was recommended to do so. My mum is coming with me for moral support and I don’t go to places on my own I do not know.

    Another thing My counsellor had discharged me last week, as she feel that she cannot help me anymore and see how I go for a few months. (I have been going for over a year now) Then I have to go back to my GP and asks to be referred to see a CBT Therapist, I have been going for over a year now, I am worry now that this will effect my ESA, my counsellor did write a letter for my supporting evidence along with ESA50 Forum. What shall I say at the Medical, If they ask me am I still continue with my counselling sessions etc. Thanks.

    Comment by ryan80 — April 28, 2012 @ 3:23 pm

  282. Hello Ryan.

    At the assessment they will ask you how your health problems affect your ability to work, they will also ask questions like how did you arrive there was it by car, bus, motorbike or did you walk etc.
    They will ask if you have hobbies, watch television, can you do your own cooking and other stuff like do you have you a dog.
    Now you may wonder for instance, what in gods name has owning a dog got to do with my functional ability to work ? the answer is if you have a dog this means you must take it for walks and means you are mobile, therefore fit for work, if you have a hobby say for instance building toy airplanes then you can work in a factory building toy airplanes.
    Every question asked is geared to your ability to work, no matter how innocent it seems to you, all answers are typed into a computer and when you leave the health care professional sends it by computer to the DWP, the DWP decision maker then is supposed to decide based on the report if you are fit for work or not.
    I am assuming you are mobile so the exceptional circumstances rule may apply in your case, I don’t know because I don’t know you, but get help from the welfare rights office or the Citizens advice they will look at your case file and give you the best advice.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 28, 2012 @ 5:39 pm

  283. A quick question. What if you told them you lie in bed all day doing nothing?

    Comment by Anonymous — April 29, 2012 @ 5:58 pm

  284. Hello Anonymous.

    I suppose they would think you were a lazy good for nothing..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 29, 2012 @ 7:00 pm

  285. I think they will understandably want to establish if it is true and why. If the impairment is so severe, I guess they will have to make a home visit, which can be arranged with Atos if necessary.

    The only aim is to ensure WCAs are conducted fairly. If there is any attempt to deceive on our part it will undoubtedly backfire and further fuel the benefit scrounger philosophy.

    Comment by tiajunior — April 29, 2012 @ 7:11 pm

  286. Q284 was a serious question. I just wondered what they would do. I’ve not even got an assessment coming up. Sorry.

    Comment by Anonymous — April 29, 2012 @ 8:08 pm

  287. If you wrote on the form that’s all you do due to ill health, they’d do a home visit and expect you to be like that for a medical. If your not and you don’t have a chronic condition you’d be deemed a liar and found fit for work and all benefits stopped immediately. Also, they’d question you about your ability to feed yourself and toileting/bathing needs and how you manage these tasks if your health dictates you lay in bed all day!

    Comment by Beth — April 29, 2012 @ 8:26 pm

  288. people who lay in bed like myself lazy and good for nothing………its to keep the pain away……….cheeky b……….ds

    Comment by Anonymous — May 1, 2012 @ 9:02 am

  289. Many of us have chronic pain from various conditions but we don’t lay in bed all day, any doctor would advise against that anyway. (You have to keep mobile to maintain mobility). The advice given is all good advice!

    Comment by Beth — May 1, 2012 @ 9:28 am

  290. Anonymous…You asked (A quick question. What if you told them you lie in bed all day doing nothing?) and I answered honestly, that’s what (If you told them) they would think if you told them you lay in bed all day doing nothing.

    You mentioned nothing in your comment about pain and that was the reason you lay in your bed all day, we are not psychic, so in future if you would like a question answered to suit you, then could you please at least try and stretch your hand over to the keyboard and express yourself better…cheeky b…..d.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 1, 2012 @ 10:35 am

  291. Q284 & 287 are from me. Not Q289. That is someone else.

    Comment by Anonymous — May 1, 2012 @ 12:12 pm

  292. Well my answer covers both of you, if you lie in your bed all day then people will naturally – rightly or wrongly – come to the conclusion that you are bone idle, it’s not rocket science..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 1, 2012 @ 1:15 pm

  293. I don’t wish to sound patronising, but I have to congratulate the host here for their patience & dedication.

    Comment by tiajunior — May 1, 2012 @ 1:16 pm

  294. I got 0 points from my dont give atoss medical and I got the appeal form today.

    Does anyone know if chances of success at appeal are drastically or significantly improved IF one gets help from CAB to prepare the appeal and to represent me at appeal? I’m thinking as its a bullying process that if you attend alone they think they can intimidate you?

    Also I will need to get ‘fit/sick’ notes from my doctor in order to claim the assessment rate of ESA whilst waiting for an appeal date. Presumably if a doctor thinks you are fit for work you can’t get the ESA ? I am not fit to work but I don’t know if my Gp will agree.

    Any idea the current times before appeals are being heard?

    Thanks.

    Comment by DeCam — May 1, 2012 @ 7:40 pm

  295. Hi DeCam.

    Yes the chances are massively improved if you get help from the CAB or the nearest welfare rights office, the statistics are saying if represented 70% are winning their appeals, so get in there.
    As for a sickline, yes it’s true if you want the assessment rate then you need to furnish the DWP with them until the appeal is heard, that could be at least 6 months or more.

    If your GP refuses and believes you are fit for work and you still disagree and would like to carry on with the appeal then the alternative is to sign on, this will not affect your appeal if you sign on, remember when you attend the appeal they will want to know about your fitness for work at the time you were informed by the DWP that your capacity for work was not limited.

    Plenty of people have signed on went to the appeal 9 months later and won, and therefore were fully entitled to ESA.
    If you think your GP is messing you around by refusing to give you a sickline for some other partial reason like he’s a staunch Tory or he is bitter and twisted and doesn’t like you for some other reason like you drink, smoke, take drugs it doesn’t really matter, you can leave the practice go to another GP and ask the reception if they will take you on as a patient, you do not have to explain to them the reason.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 1, 2012 @ 9:18 pm

  296. Thanks for your usefull reply dwpexamination.

    PS I have sent my complaint letter to the manager about the atoss false claims about suicidal thoughts and self harm in my murdical report and am awaiting a response.

    Comment by DeCam — May 1, 2012 @ 9:44 pm

  297. i went to cab and got put on esa support group with out a medical because i belive the cab made a big difference because they av the power of influance, use everything you can to fight the nomads who treat us like dirt with the cab they give it to them what the law is on benefits not what they think it is good look every one keep up the fight.

    Comment by steve d — May 2, 2012 @ 7:57 am

  298. Hello Steve.

    That’s why we always advocate contacting either the CAB or Welfare rights for help and hopefully representation at an appeal, even though they are busy they still make an effort to try and cater for all.
    We on this Blog are victims as well, we have been where you and the others are and we don’t want you to fall into the same traps as us, we learned the hard way (School of hard knocks) and can guide everyone on the right road, that alone can save a lot of time and heartache and eventually money.
    Remember Steve just because they have conceded the support group now doesn’t mean they will forget about you, eventually they will be back and it might mean a face to face assessment and then told you are fit for work, so it’s in your own best interests to understand and study what these people are trying to do, that way when the time comes you will know exactly what action to take and what to do instantly without any need to crawl around in the dark.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 2, 2012 @ 8:49 am

  299. Just wondering……..

    If found ‘fit for work’ after an atos assessment does that mean able to work a full week say 37 hours or does it mean could work say a couple of hours a week that might increase?

    Comment by DeCam — May 2, 2012 @ 9:03 pm

  300. Hello DeCam.

    It means a full week, that’s the full week, the whole week and nothing but the week..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 2, 2012 @ 9:11 pm

  301. This is one of the major flaws in the whole process in that there is no definition of what “work” means.
    DWP’s criteria is not this precise I’m afraid – they are vague and non-committal about what type of work, hours of work etc. – they just refer to “some form of general work”. They leave you to sort out the “details” of what you can and can’t do at your local Job Centre as part of looking for a job.

    Comment by tiajunior — May 2, 2012 @ 9:18 pm

  302. Hello tiajunior.

    They know what work means all right, they only know one version and that’s work for NOTHING, they are so desperate to start the big society that Cameron is always banging on about that hey will try any trick or dirty deed, and one of them is the withdrawal of benefits if you appeal a fit for work decision http://unemploymentmovement.com/forum/benefit/2434-changes-to-appeal-system-for-esa-as-of-april-2013 it’s beyond unbelievable, but true.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 3, 2012 @ 5:28 am

  303. I am aware of both of these changes, but did not think this was what the question was about.

    Comment by tiajunior — May 3, 2012 @ 6:26 am

  304. I’ve already answered the question, a whole week, and that leads us on to the reason for the DWPs (Government) telling us we can work while disabled or ill, which is the big society and Camerons vision of what the big society means, which is work full time for nothing, and that leads us to why they would withdraw your benefits if you decide to appeal a fit for work decision you see how everything flows naturally, but some people don’t understand that, maybe you and I were aware of these changes tiajunior, but it’s not just about you and me, there are other people who are not aware of these changes, I just think it would be a good idea to tell them about it, JUST IN CASE THEY ARE NOT AS WELL CLUED UP AS YOU AND ARE NOT AWARE OF THESE CHANGES.
    GOT ME ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 3, 2012 @ 6:45 am

  305. I was not aware of the above proposed change to ESA appeal money. Clearly the gov are determined to corall as many people as possible who are on ESA and are reassessed as fit for work through the Job Seekers Funnel if they want to get any money while waiting for an appeal at which point their appeals are undermined by the fact that the disenfranchised ESA claimant has now SIGNED UP voluntarily to be available to work 40 hours a week EVEN THOUGH they are ALSO claiming in parallel that they are NOT fit to work to get ESA !!

    Add to that the stalling mechanism of having to wait for a DM reconsideration that could take months before an appeal is made and it becomes clear that the gov wants to wage a war of attrition against the ESA claimant to virtually kill them off before they reach the final hurdle of winning at appeal as so many do.

    THEN after winning at appeal the grim reaper in the form of the Atos medical assessor reappears to start the whole process off again and it is clear that the gov are fixing the odds and destroying the spirits and bodies of the sick and disabled ( how long before we are called the ENABLED because we are still alive and they haven’t killed us off yet).

    Picking on the sick isn’t that what bullies do? This gov is using our money to persecute us for claiming benefits that you are only ELIGABLE for if you have paid National Insurance whilst working, denying those benefits and wasting lots of money in the staffing and implementation of this denial of entitlement.

    Comment by DeCam — May 3, 2012 @ 8:03 am

  306. Hello DeCam.

    Don’t forget that some people have signed on while they wait for their appeal to be heard, either through ignorance or just can’t wait for the assessment rate because they need money now, not when the decision maker decides to get his finger out.

    What’s to stop these overzealous DWP penpushers from denying you the only means of subsistence which is to sign on ? by saying sorry but you are to ill to work, well then we have the ridiculous situation where a person cannot get any money to live on while they wait for the appeal to be heard because they are ill, and cannot sign on for Job seekers either because they are ill.

    Is this Iain Duncan Smiths idea then of making work pay ? is this what he meant and planned all along, work or starve then die ?.

    This must be the most cruel and harshest British Government of all time.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 3, 2012 @ 8:57 am

  307. Ok Cheerio..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 3, 2012 @ 9:20 am

  308. Hmmm all sounds very bitter and twisted in places.. having worked for DWP I was never a pen pusher and worked very hard during my stressful 37 hr week. I’ve had to sit at my desk (with a disability and in pain) watching person after person came in claiming their giro hadn’t arrived and needing an emergency payment. Then heading off up to the post office and onto the nearest pub. Or the guy jumping out a van up the road with ladders on top, coming in to sign saying he’s never been working. All very sickening when I’m working with a chronic painful condition.

    Almost everyone I know is fiddling in one form or another and it’s absolutely disgraceful, these people are the one’s keeping very quiet when the genuine disabled and chronic sick being persecuted.

    Just for the record DWP…. deem more than 16hrs full time employment, and some people claiming IB/ESA have never worked in their life therefore, HAVE NEVER contributed and are not claiming what they’ve paid into the system, it’s because of some of these people, working people are now only entitled to claim contributions based ESA for a year if their in the WRAG.

    Comment by Beth — May 3, 2012 @ 9:38 am

  309. Heading of to the nearest pub ? you are sitting in there and you can see them all heading for the nearest pub ?
    And almost everyone you know is fiddling in one form or another ? well why haven’t you reported them ?.

    The DWP do not deem 16 hours as full time employment, don’t be ridiculous. You might have all those little Daily mail readers fooled, but you don’t fool me or the readers who have been stitched up by the DWP coming away with crap like that.

    Just for the record, if you worked for the DWP then you were a penpusher, anyway why aren’t you back working with the DWP then instead of whining about how you had it bad and it was all the fault of the guy with the van with the ladders on top who (since you are in a building up the road from him) you cannot possibly see, and if you did see could have reported him and that would be the end of the guy with the van ?.

    It’s rants like yours that do disabled people no good at all, please find another Blog or forum to spout on…I will bid you goodbye, thank you.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 3, 2012 @ 12:53 pm

  310. I have my medical on wednesday and having read the comments on here don’t hold out much hope of a pass, I am wondering why it it the assessment does not take into account what support (if any) a person has to carry out these task ie: shop, walk, cook, manage finances etc..I live on my own, have nobody to do these tasks for me, I have to plan and balance these tasks so my illnesss does not get worse. How do you put this point over in the medical?

    Comment by tmir — May 4, 2012 @ 12:23 pm

  311. Hi tmir.

    They will ask you all those questions at the assessment, and you will have an opportunity to get what you want to say over, just don’t expect what you say to correspond with what they write on your ESA 85 assessment report, that’s why it’s vitally important that you request that report so you can study it before you compose your appeal.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 4, 2012 @ 12:38 pm

  312. What I find somewhat convenient is the fact that when given a context for some of the questions, they use examples such as going to the shops, the pub, or the cinema (the last two I haven’t done for years).
    If these questions are to establish whether you are fit to work, why then are none of them given in the context of the workplace.

    If your condition is, like mine, stress related and tends to manifest itself in obsessive behavior which can become all consuming for days. If you have a problem a in a shop, a pub, or a cinema. Unlike the workplace, you’re under no obligation to go back the next day and cumulatively face the problem again.

    I’m under no illusion of being unique in having this type of mental health problem – but they seem to specifically avoid raising the question of whether the workplace itself maybe the cause of many peoples mental health problems.

    Comment by Anonymous — May 5, 2012 @ 11:54 pm

  313. Hello Anonymous.

    I suppose their twisted logic runs like this, if you are fit enough to visit the pub or cinema then you are mobile and therefore fit for work, of course as you are hinting they do not take fluctuating conditions of a persons illness in to account, that is left to the appeal panel to ask.

    As for the workplace itself as the cause of mental health problems then you are correct again, in today’s humdrum workplace with people doing the same mind-numbing repetitive boring work day in day out then to be bored then eventually as time goes by then depressed then a breakdown in mental health is easy to understand, but for the person who has a varied job that is challenging then in my opinion a breakdown in mental health is rare, especially if the job is well paid.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 6, 2012 @ 4:33 am

  314. thanks dwpexamination for replying, I am hoping someone will be accompanying me so at least I will have a witness to what is being said just in case it goes to appeal and the report is inaccurate, which going from what people have said here will probably be the case

    Comment by tmir — May 6, 2012 @ 11:29 am

  315. I am on IB. After the examination, what can they put me on IF i am deemed unfit for work?

    Comment by Jim T — May 6, 2012 @ 2:23 pm

  316. Hello Jim.

    If you are found unfit for work by ATOS then you will be transferred to Employment and support allowance because Incapacity benefit is being phased out. If you are on contributory rather than income related then beware if they find you unfit for work and put you in the Work related group of ESA rather than the support group because the Work related is retrospectively time limited to one year.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 6, 2012 @ 2:57 pm

  317. Thanks for the info. dwpexamination

    Comment by Jim T — May 6, 2012 @ 3:49 pm

  318. In the last month mt IB payments have went £199.70, £204.15 & now £210.10. Can someone explain? (not complaining).

    Comment by Alan — May 6, 2012 @ 8:31 pm

  319. Hello Alan.

    There was a rise recently, you will need to wait and see how it pans out, sometimes the DWP give money they owe in drips and drabs.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 6, 2012 @ 9:59 pm

  320. Re post 317 i believe that the 365 day retrospective time limit in the WRAG for contribution based ESA applies to when ESA started but a period on Incapacity Benefit does not count so it is only after migration to ESA that the 365 day time limit begins ticking?

    Of course I could be wrong but that’s how I read it when I looked into it!

    Comment by DeCam — May 7, 2012 @ 10:19 pm

  321. No I think your right DeCam..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 7, 2012 @ 11:02 pm

  322. After making an appeal against refusal to award ESA what is the best way to request the Assessment Rate?

    Can I put a written request in with the appeal form?

    Is there a new form to fill in for assessment rate or if granted does esa just carry on at the lower rate?

    Comment by DeCam — May 8, 2012 @ 8:15 am

  323. Hello DeCam.

    A good question, no there is no separate form for asking for the assessment rate for the simple reason they hope you don’t know about it and therefore can’t ask for it, which leaves you with the only option which is to do as they say and sign on, or starve of course.
    But you do know about it and will be asking for it and you are going to get it by writing at the bottom of the box on the GL24 appeal form that whilst waiting for your appeal to be heard you wish to be paid at the assessment rate.

    So then, you use the box to introduce your appeal as in
    Dear Sir/Madam.

    I wish to appeal against your decision to find me fit for work, I believe my fitness for work is seriously limited, I have provided prove orally and by physical examination at the assessment centre, I have also provided prove by showing my GPs examination report both to ATOS and your office as well as my ESA 50 Questionnaire, since there is a serious lack of space on the GL24 then I will carry on with the rest of the appeal and show the descriptors I’m contending on separate A4 paper please find attached.
    Whilst I wait for the appeal to be heard I wish to be paid the assessment rate.

    That’s just roughly what I write, you can phrase it in your own way if you like everyone is different, but the main point is to get that wishing to be paid the assessment rate on the GL24 form somewhere, because as I said they will not pay you it until they receive the appeal and don’t forget the little matter of the sicknote.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 8, 2012 @ 9:10 am

  324. Thanks dwpexamination !

    At the JC they told me to press button B on their phone to ask for assessment rate even though they had just given me the E65 appeal form! I thought that can’t be right, they might ‘forget’ I had contacted them. How would I know who I had talked to etc. they also said I could claim jsa if I wanted instead, well they would wouldn’t they. You really have to do your homework with these people don’t you! That’s why this is a great resource.

    Comment by DeCam — May 8, 2012 @ 9:35 am

  325. DeCam.

    Press button B ? they obviously think it’s one of the buttons that button up the back of our heads.
    Everything you ask for, or any dealings whatsoever you have with these people, make sure it’s in writing and keep a copy, not that everything you write is guaranteed, but at least you have proof.
    As for your homework, you can ease the pain of that homework by picking a username and logging in to the forum http://www.dwpexamination.org there you will find people in the same boat as yourself united in a common cause.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 8, 2012 @ 9:48 am

  326. What is the general conscientious about having your interview recorded?

    Comment by Karen — May 8, 2012 @ 6:04 pm

  327. Hello Karen.

    The general consensus is we can now have our assessment recorded if we wish, ATOS will supply the recording equipment and give you a copy of the recording.
    You must tell them up front, in other words when you receive the ESA 50 Questionnaire and you fill it in, then that is the time to compose a basic letter and attache it to the ESA 50, saying that you would like your assessment recorded.
    Someone sent an FOI request in to the DWP inquiring how many recording devices does ATOS healthcare have ? the answer came back eleven.
    That’s right only eleven for the whole of the Country, so asking for your assessment to be recorded has other benefits, like your possible assessment will be delayed even more for a few weeks enabling you to stay on ESA until they arrange a recording device to be set up for your assessment.
    At the moment most people are unaware they can even get their assessment recorded overtly by ATOS, and have taken to recording the assessment themselves without telling ATOS, if caught then the assessment will stop on the spot you will be sent home and a letter will drop on your doormat in a few days informing you that your benefits have stopped for noncompliance etc.
    Once everyone does catch on though and start demanding they record their assessment then ATOS are going to have to get themselves a hell of a lot of machines to carry out their contract properly.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 8, 2012 @ 7:52 pm

  328. Get your assessment recorded because ATOSS are lying motherf*ckers and what you think you said wont tally with what they do say on their Medical Report and which you then have to contradict when you appeal.

    As you are likely to fail the assessment think of it as a stepping stone to the appeal and the recorded info will hopefully put you in a good position to overturn the decision.

    Might even help in evidence to shame ATOSS and how they go about their work.

    Comment by DeCam — May 8, 2012 @ 10:05 pm

  329. Re appeal, is the hcp represented on the tribunal panel always the one that did your original assessment?

    Does the tribunal use the points system to make any award so one would need at least 15 points?

    Or is the tribunal empowered to use mitigating evidence, medical reports etc so that the complete picture originally presented by completing the ES50 gains more weight than the ATOS medical and score?

    Thanks.

    Comment by DeCam — May 9, 2012 @ 11:42 am

  330. Hello DeCam.

    The health care professional is not represented on the appeal panel, the DR on the panel is supposed to be impartial, sometimes they stick an ATOS DR in there, if you get one then you have every right to mention this and ask for another panel, on no account should you proceed, if you are asked to waive your right and allow an ATOS HCP on the panel then you reply NO I DO NOT WISH TO WAIVE MY RIGHT, I would prefer someone who doesn’t or didn’t work for ATOS. Waiving that right is asking for it in my opinion.
    And yes the panel use the points system, your goal is to get at least the minimum of 15 points by contending the descriptors that are relevant to you, again yes the panel must take into account mitigating evidence, this could be in the form GPs or Consultants medical reports, X rays and scans etc as well as oral evidence from you along with their observations of you. Whether it gains more weight or not is for them to decide, and outside our control.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 9, 2012 @ 1:05 pm

  331. Hi all i have just had the dreaded phone call about pip and to find out my forms on the way,i know i will then have to go for the medical,I have Mutiple Sclerosis,RA,Ptosis (eye probs)and psoriosis but because i make the best of it and can walk although i need to rest!!There are days when i dont leave the house i just dont have the energy.I am on regular treatments and have regular hospital appointments.I just know i will be deemed fit for work i just pity the employer if i then find one who has to pay me to be off more than i work.What an earth are we all supposed to do!!!

    Comment by Lucy — May 9, 2012 @ 4:33 pm

  332. Hi Lucy.

    If you are found fit for work then you are supposed to appeal, that’s the whole idea, find you fit for work and force you to appeal.
    It’s easy to appeal, you can get help here at the forum http://www.dwpexamination.org step by step if you need it, and your nearest welfare rights or CAB can help as well.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 9, 2012 @ 6:23 pm

  333. This may sound silly, but has anyone ever got over the 15pts & qualify?

    Comment by Nicola — May 9, 2012 @ 7:38 pm

  334. Hello Nicola.

    The minimum you require to qualify for Employment and support allowance from ATOS/DWP is 15 points, if you receive under 15 points you are found fit for work, they will tell you the reason is you did not score enough points to be eligible for ESA SO then if you don’t agree then you have to appeal, again the minimum you require from the appeal panel is 15 points. You can get over 15 points from an appeal panel, but since you only need 15 then the other points you may be awarded are basically superfluous.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 9, 2012 @ 8:08 pm

  335. i av gone on to esa support group and they told me that it will be looked at in to years time does that meen pip will still go ahead with me soon.

    Comment by Anonymous — May 10, 2012 @ 6:32 am

  336. Do you get Disability allowance ? if you do then you will be transferred to PIP.

    Everyone will eventually be transferred to Employment and support allowance then again on to Universal credit, if a person is on contributory ESA then as far as I know that will be separate but run in parallel to income related. I don’t even know if the Government themselves know, they certainly don’t know how it’s all going to pan out.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 10, 2012 @ 7:54 am

  337. hi there dwpexamination , my name john, i am also shiting myself,,i have had a assessment 14 month ago only got 3 points so i appeald won my appeal about 4 months ago and yesterday may 9th got a phone call to tell me they want me in for a assessment on may 30th….I told them i have only just won my appeal,,but they told me they can call u up for a assessment after just 3 month,,,,,,is this right????

    Comment by jonty — May 10, 2012 @ 11:49 am

  338. Hello John.

    Yes they can unfortunately, but you can delay it for a few weeks by asking for your assessment to be recorded, they may huff and haw but they have to comply, they will supply the recording equipment and will give you a copy.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 10, 2012 @ 2:29 pm

  339. good look jonty get some one to represnt you that will scare em i did and won

    Comment by Anonymous — May 10, 2012 @ 4:56 pm

  340. Regarding Answer 328. I have already filled in my form & did not ask for the interview to be recorded. If/when i get a letter saying i need to attend an ‘interview’, can i then ask for it to be recorded?

    Thank You

    Comment by Karen — May 11, 2012 @ 1:44 am

  341. Karen.

    How likely is it that you will be assessed ? if you think it’s very likely then a good idea would be to send ATOS a short letter in the style of

    ”Further to the ESA 50 questionnaire I completed on such and such a date, In the future if you decide to assess me then I would like to exercise my right to have my assessment recorded, I understand you will supply the recording equipment and you will be responsible for setting it up and calibrating the twin recording, I also understand I will be supplied a copy of the recording immediately.
    I will forward the Department of work and pensions a copy of this letter for their records.

    Mentioning you will send the DWP a copy of your letter will ensure they don’t try and pull a fast one and say they never received your letter etc.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 11, 2012 @ 7:18 am

  342. Hi i No its wrong to name and shame ATOS medical interagation centres
    but i would like to no if anybody on this site has been to the Atos in newport isle of wight
    please /lets not reply with our real names
    as i went this week
    and was shocked

    Comment by Charles Bartowski — May 11, 2012 @ 10:34 am

  343. I have got the CAB involved in my ESA appeal and they filled in the small box on the GL24 stating some reasons for the appeal.

    Is that enough for now and get the appeal in on time and then prepare the point by point going through of the atos medical report for later submission to the tribunal or do I need to get all the evidence in with the appeal initially?

    CAB seemed happy with just the short bit of info on GL 24 and said contact CAB when the appeal papers are sent to me by DWP and they will help phrase and write the info.

    Comment by DeCam — May 11, 2012 @ 3:53 pm

  344. Hello DeCam.

    Do exactly what they say.
    Have you got the ESA 85 assessment report by the way ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 11, 2012 @ 4:15 pm

  345. Hi yes I have the ESA 85.

    I have got my fitsicknote too. Should I take a photocopy and send in the original or vice versa depending on what they accept?
    On the reverse of the sick note there’s a declaration for social security benefit claimants only to sign, is ESA a ss benefit? Do I have to agree with it and sign, says DWP can contact my Gp for info to do with claim. Just wonder what they do if you don’t sign!

    As an aside are there any statistics that say the proportion of people on ESA in the Support Group versus the WRAG?

    Thanks.

    Comment by DeCam — May 11, 2012 @ 5:08 pm

  346. Hi ihad my assessment this week and took my wife with me ,i really didnt no what to expect as i honestly hoped to be treated ok , as someone who has kept up with how atos have been subjecting people to reallly harsh interagation ,i answed all the questions and even asked a few which i asked for an honest answer back , i asked the atos medical doctor what she wrote ,she seemed really shocked and told me in her report i was not deemed able to work ,but it was down to the dwp ,so i asked if i should start my appeal ,which she didnt answer and said the assessment was over .
    The trouble is i felt every question needed real thought and i fully understand why people could become flusted and upset ,one question as iam a person with no movement in 1 leg with very limted movement ,i was asked if i wanted to move from 1 chair to another how would i do that ,
    My answer was why would i want to move from 1 chair to another if i new it would give me pain spasms ,she looked puzzeled ,
    Another question how do i get upstairs bymself , a chair lift fitted by local council with paper work i suppled ,she looked puzzeled again .
    from my point i think if you answer the questions whilst remmbering previous answers ,you should be ok , i will be going up again to accompy a freind who dosnt have anyone to go with .

    Comment by Circus Tony — May 11, 2012 @ 5:17 pm

  347. Hello DeCam.

    Yes the sicknote should be sent as soon as possible along with the GL24 appeal that’s why the CAB have got the appeal started they know that you can send in the rest later, the main thing is to get the GL24 and sickline in to get paid, you can photocopy it but do not send the copy, you need to send the original (One of the few exceptions) and you have to sign the back and the details and that you are receiving ESA etc.

    If you are interested in these statistics and others then you should visit the forum http://www.dwpexamination.org they are on there.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 11, 2012 @ 6:42 pm

  348. Hello Tony.

    It’s looking good for you, do expect the worst though to avoid disappointment, if you get a result then great if not well that’s what you expected, the good news is you are going to win the appeal with absolutely no problems whatsoever.
    She probably looked puzzled because she wants answers that she can put in her wonder machine, answers that suit her and your fitness to work, your answers make you look as if you are not fit to work, she can hardly put in there that you have a stair lift if she wants to find you fit for work, but it looks like she has no choice.
    As I said it’s finger licking looking good for you..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 11, 2012 @ 6:49 pm

  349. This may sound stupid, but, if they are asking questions about my personal life, can i ask them about there’s? If it is recorded & they have lied could i call it not admissable & request another hearing & the person to be dismissed from there position?

    Thanks,

    Karen T

    Comment by Karen T — May 13, 2012 @ 1:11 am

  350. Hello Karen.

    Ask them any questions you like, but as long as you want to stay on Employment and support allowance just (At least for now) do as the nice health care professional says.
    If it’s recorded and they have lied on the ESA 85 report then it doesn’t look good for the HCP if you mention on your appeal that you have audio proof that he/she lied, remember you have a right to demand that ATOS record your assessment now.
    But (beware) if you record it yourself, then they have a defence, they can say that you interfered with the recording, and therefore since you didn’t tell them it was recorded then it is not admissible at a tribunal etc, and if you do say you would like to record it yourself then you will find the HCP will just abandon the assessment inform the DWP that your benefits should stop and blame you.

    So insist they record it and except no excuses, and if the HCP speaks in a low (That’s what they are doing) voice then demand (politely) that he/she speaks louder because your ears are clogged with wax and a bit deaf at the moment.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 13, 2012 @ 9:39 am

  351. Hello Circus Tony
    which sounds like a great name ,i think the dwp /and atos have a set agenda concerning how many per an area they have to deem fit for work , i went to an assesment severall months ago ,and lo and behold am deemed fit for work ,lovely i thought they will get me a lovely job , no chance i have appealed against my atos report and am now just waiting .
    It seems the health carer medical adviser you had was reading from her computer .
    and not really looking at you .
    I go to 2 disabled groups locally ,and i live in quite a large city and out of say 30 people 26 have got appeals going on which is very high .

    Comment by Helen — May 14, 2012 @ 2:31 pm

  352. if found unfit for work and put on esa support group do you go on to pip automatic or do you have to be reaset again and go all through the as

    Comment by Anonymous — May 14, 2012 @ 4:45 pm

  353. Some will some wont, whether one will or wont just depends on some whimsical ATOS Dr.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 14, 2012 @ 4:51 pm

  354. Do you agree or disagree that the disabled are bearing the brunt ?.
    Click on the link below and cast your vote.

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/9263453/500000-to-lose-disability-benefit.html#pd_a_6225639

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 14, 2012 @ 7:45 pm

  355. Interesting.
    Thank you for voting!
    Yes – claimant numbers have soared and the system is abused 56.81% (5,360 votes)

    No – the Government is making the vulnerable bear the brunt of cuts 43.19% (4,075 votes)

    Total Votes: 9,435
    Return To PollShare This

    Comment by Beth — May 14, 2012 @ 7:56 pm

  356. What is ‘interesting’?

    “Almost 80% of claimants have been reassessed to be fit for work” says the Telegraph reporter.

    Nothing about the number of successful appeals being made or even ATOS discusting treatment of the sick and vulnerable, or do they treat the deserving 20% better?

    Comment by DeCam — May 14, 2012 @ 10:31 pm

  357. Interesting the results of the poll. 56.81% of voters believe the governments hype.
    It appears the governments and media’s belittling and name calling of disability claimants appears to be the view of many members of the public too.
    And the media continue reporting inaccurate figures without doing their own research!

    Comment by Beth — May 15, 2012 @ 5:34 am

  358. 56.81%of Daily Telegraph readers believe the governments hype, they have a leaning towards the right don’t they? Not representative of the GBP.

    Benefit bashing is the new sport encouraged by the present government. Of course it would be good if the cheats lose their benefits if not entitled but the not fit for purpose atos DWP assessments seem to be having a better success at making the genuine claimants lose their benefits?

    Comment by DeCam — May 15, 2012 @ 1:54 pm

  359. this is all a massive stitch up to stop as many peoples benefit as possible and you still have to attend their medicals despite having your benefit withdrawn my wife works 25 hrs a week and now weve been well and truely stitched up, well were all in this togeather i suppose dave arnt we? how about the bankers who caused this bieing sorted out a bit ?

    Comment by pete5222 — May 17, 2012 @ 4:31 pm

  360. Hi Pete.

    I suppose if you could spare the two quid you could buy a NI stamp at the post office to save you going for another assessment.
    But even two quid is a hard stretch when you don’t have anything..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 17, 2012 @ 8:55 pm

  361. I went for a medical at atos this week, i was only in the examination room for 17 mins, i feel examiner didnt ask relavent questions about my disabilty. I was in a state the week running up to my appointment. I had to cancell the first appointment that they sent me as my mother was unable to attend with me and they brought my appointment forward by a week. I suffer with depression and am battle alcoholism which i have done for the past 10 years, i have abstained since march this year after doing a home detox at my mums. I am waiting for my decission.

    superman

    Comment by Anonymous — May 19, 2012 @ 7:42 am

  362. Hello Anonymous.

    Let us know what they decide ? if it’s bad news we can maybe help.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 19, 2012 @ 11:58 am

  363. Can i take more than 1 person into the interview with me?

    Comment by Carrie P — May 20, 2012 @ 12:24 am

  364. Hello Carrie.

    I think you’ll find that the ATOS Dr will take fright and give you a lecture on his/her rights and then tell you only one person is allowed to accompany you in the interview room.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 20, 2012 @ 7:43 am

  365. Hi
    There i no what iam going to say will make a few people cross ,but iam sick an tierd of people moaning about Anxiety ,and being Agoraphic ,really i have no legs and still got my atos medical intergation ,i think the medical budget woould not spirraled out of control if the doctors had just told these people its not a disabilty , really i have never suffered from stress or fear of going out ,i think the govt is 100% right to withdraw benefit from these scroungers ,and then the real disabled peole wouldnt have to go through these degrading examinations .

    Comment by Jeff Holmes — May 21, 2012 @ 1:14 pm

  366. i have just read the post by jeff homes ,i think he is right and wrong .Alot of people have hidden disabilties and just because they are not in wheel chair .that dosnt make them less disabled .
    But it sounds like jeff works for Atos or the benefits agencets .

    Comment by Helen — May 21, 2012 @ 1:17 pm

  367. Lol….we jeff..just because you have no legs doesnt stop you working either…..as atos states…use of a wheelchair is quite sufficant to make you capable for work..until you have had a mental illness.dont comment

    Comment by rachael — May 21, 2012 @ 2:52 pm

  368. Many people with physical disabilities also experience mental health issues the two tend to go hand in hand. Being disabled is not about a condition it’s how that condition affects your daily life!
    Oh….. and we are all capable of some degree of work with the right environment/support, sadly that environment or level of support is not available in today’s cut throat world of industry/business. Which is the point the ConDem government are refusing to see or listen to.

    Comment by Beth — May 21, 2012 @ 3:01 pm

  369. Hi Jeff.

    Something makes me think that you haven’t had a letter from the DWP yet, wait until you get one saying your fit for work, in other words you are now in the WRAG of ESA and that means what it says on the tin ”FIT FOR WORK”, then I want you to get out there and get a job, because quite frankly Iain Duncan Smith is sick of scroungers like you.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 21, 2012 @ 6:59 pm

  370. Yes i had a letter ,and i work part time for my local council not because iam disabled ,but for work

    Comment by Jeff Holmes — May 22, 2012 @ 12:39 pm

  371. Hi Jeff, I’m interested in what you have to say about “these scroungers”? Can you tell me exactly who you are referring to, how you know they are scroungers and your qualifications in mental health diagnosis and treatment please? I’m not being facetious, I’m just interested in how you arrived at the conclusion people with mental health issues are scroungers? Dont you think people with issues like agoraphobia, anxiety and stress are as disabled as you are only mentally?

    Cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 22, 2012 @ 4:10 pm

  372. Oh my people who shout the loudest are normally the worst , if you read through my post i dont put scrounger anywhere , i work in housing repairs ,and work in and around people everyday ,from people with disabilties that make me want to do everything i can to help them ,to people who think 4 cans and never doing a days work makes them disabled , i have been to pain clinics and had a guy ask me how much DLA and do get a car , so iam not anexpert in mental health but spent 5 years at uni and am one very few disabled housing officers who work in the uk ,and work with everyone from mind to blesma ,and am very lucky that i have not let the 2 legs i lost in iraq get in my way ,and being around people so upset and distressed they have never wanted to venture outside a hospital , a bad back is not disabled ,being scared of going outside is not disabled .
    Why should someone who uses cans or drugs be on a same level as an ms sufferer ,explain that one , i could stay and argue my case but i wont today as iam due back to WORK in 10 minutes .

    Comment by Jeff Holmes — May 22, 2012 @ 4:30 pm

  373. I think i no who Jeff is and not using youre real name is abit strange as you have told everyone almost everything about youre job . Jeff is a decent guy who works really hard ,but i honestly think he is just a bitter man who works with people everyday who sort of brain wash him i have dealt with him through saffa and he really does everything he can , he is doing a job which i think is great for a disabled person .But why are you so anti disabled jeff ,what has made you so cross

    Comment by Maggi — May 22, 2012 @ 5:00 pm

  374. Jeff well now we no thats not youre real name i think Maggi really hit the nail on the head why are you so cross about disabled people .As someone who is in a wheel chair and who works closely with disabled people do you think you are in the right job ,maybe ATOS should employ you ,you sound like a quisling .A traitor within ,maybe a bit harsh but thats how i think you sound to me .

    Comment by Big Ollie — May 22, 2012 @ 5:04 pm

  375. Oh well I’m a traitor too, I support Jeff 100%. If there is no medical evidence to support severe mental health or physical disability there’s NO reason why a person can’t work. They simply choose not to and that mentality has to stop.
    And before I get slated again, yes I’ve been through the system (in the support group) and I work in public sector to, front line seeing the abusers on a daily basis, which is where I get my outrage at people fiddling the system from.

    Comment by Beth — May 22, 2012 @ 5:27 pm

  376. Yeah the world is perfect & there are no disabled people. In your eyes Stephen Hawkings is NOT disabled, just pull his tongue out & you could use him as a stamp licker! Get a grip Jeff & Beth !!!

    Comment by Alan T — May 22, 2012 @ 5:45 pm

  377. Hi Jeff, sorry to contradict you but you clearly use the term scroungers in your previous post on 21/05/2012 where you wrote “I think the govt is 100% right to withdraw benefit from these scroungers, and then the real disabled peole wouldnt have to go through these degrading examinations”. Now then either you know for certain these people are scroungers by some psychic ability or you are making an assumption, which is it to be? Certainly your comments are not based upon any evidence of substance otherwise you would have informed the necessary powers of the “scroungers” and their full details. Its clear you can recognize disability when you see it but you also choose to discriminate where there is no visible external signs of disability? I am pleased to read you are working and I take my hat off to you for that, not many of us are capable of physical labour. I note you don’t say precisely what your job is, though I must say I am interested to find out exactly what it is you do? Can you tell me what your degree is in?

    I note you say you lost your legs in Iraq? are you an ex squaddie? I have a couple of mates who have told me some horror stories from their days in the Army. I dont envy Soldiers their lot, it cant be easy by any stretch of the imagination. As for a bad back, well it depends how good your x-ray vision is when dealing with back pain sufferers. I have seen many cases of severe back pain in my life, they were a very regular occurrence in the construction, heavy engineering and mining industries prevalent in the North of England. Since you need you back to do most jobs it is a likely point for disability to take root, I hope you never experience a “bad back”, it can wear you out.

    Those people who are dependent upon drugs and alcohol are suffering from a recognized disability, one which can be seen as self inflicted by those not suffering. There are many external causes for both and not all are self inflicted.

    Those people with mental health issues are as disabled as you or I are and I think deep down inside you know it. I think you see your own disability as being a “real” disability and anything less is inconsequential on your own sliding scale. Tell me do you know anyone from the same walk of life you had prior to losing your legs who has mental health issues brought on by a similar trauma?

    I notice you say you would like to argue your case? I wonder why you see honest open debate as an argument? I would much rather discuss why you feel the way you do so I can grasp your definition and clear boundary of disability?

    I wish you well Jeff, I congratulate you on your efforts to live and work despite your disability its an admirable trait and one to which I subscribe to myself but my bad back prevents me walking upright and for any distance.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 22, 2012 @ 5:59 pm

  378. While there are people who abuse the system and gov should get tougher with these, and I think it’s wrong that alcoholics get money for drink (bring in vouchers to pay bills) and drug users get needles seems wrong..BUT people with genuine mental health problems struggle just as much as someone with a physical disability, having been agoraphobic for the last 20years and only claimed for it in the last year because my finances dried up, in other words I am not this way for the money!..It is a soul destroying exsistence..Jeff how is someone like me supposed to go to work when I can’t leave my home?..I consider having a job and a life where you have some control a luxury!

    Comment by Eponoymous — May 22, 2012 @ 6:02 pm

  379. Medical evidence is the crux of the matter here Beth, its not always apparent what a persons disability is especially if it is in the mind. I see your psychic ability is still in good order too! have you thought of taking up scrounger identification as a full time job? because if you can clearly 100% tell me and prove to me for definite, beyond any doubt you can see scroungers then you aught to be on TV with your mate the Dom righting wrong wherever you find it.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 22, 2012 @ 6:06 pm

  380. Sadly it’s something we learn very quickly working on the front line of public sector, you don’t need to be physic to spot these people. You can listen to a persons story and learn very quickly from the words and posture how true their statements are! Yes we do live in a sick society where instead of helping/support each other we judge and lay blame.
    As we’ve discussed before largely dependant on the area a person lives and what they see and hear on a daily basis.

    Comment by Beth — May 22, 2012 @ 6:18 pm

  381. Surely this is a serious breach of confidentiality then Maggi? Surely someone with experience of working with disabled people should know better.

    Cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 22, 2012 @ 6:25 pm

  382. I dont subscribe to the same school of thought Beth. I think we all need to look carefully before we jump to a conclusion, particularly where there is a disability even if it in not immediately visible. I still cant see how you and your DWP colleagues have this sixth sense and can tell what someone is or isnr at a single glance, it certainly doesn’t stand in Law.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 22, 2012 @ 6:37 pm

  383. Never mentioned a glance… I think I said “you can listen to a persons story” and come to an informed decision as to their credibility!

    Where there is medical evidence of chronic illness regardless of it being mental health, hidden or physical there shouldn’t be any need for further assessment by ATOS or anyone else. Unfortunately during the Thatcher era people were forced onto IB regardless of condition and left there to rot, it’s just sad the genuine have been caught up in this witch hunt for fraudulent claimants.

    I could name names and give examples but as you know we’re then looking at breach of confidentiality.

    Comment by Beth — May 22, 2012 @ 6:50 pm

  384. Thank you beth as it seems a few people who have now got to have real medical are worried ,as for my quilifications iam now a fully quil charterd sur and a RIBA member ,and yes i did suffer from stress and i did become a very very angry person ,but do you no what i didnt want someone looking at me as if i was andy from little britan ,i did something ,and i work very closely making sure social housing and schools and sports clubs are improved for disabled people .
    I have to talk to people every day from housing assocition to general landlords ,to disabled people who through ot need help and addaptions to there home ,i meet people who are to proud to ask four a closomat toilet or floor tiles in there kitchen .
    I work closely even as of last month with brand new houses that need to be able to comply with new disabled housing.
    Yes i look at people and size them up ,but every one does ,and losing my legs was the end of one thing and the start of a new me ,go to hedly court and talk to the young guys their and ask them if cant work through stress or the fear of going out ,iam sorry but the people who are making the most noise are the people so scared about losing their money.
    I hate any form of interagation concerning a persons disabilty ,but when you see fat sods playing golf and claming can get cross with that .

    Comment by Jeff Holmes — May 22, 2012 @ 9:03 pm

  385. Jeff you have contradicted yourself yet again, in a previous statement you said- “really i have never suffered from stress or fear of going out” now you state-”and yes i did suffer from stress and i did become a very very angry person ,but do you no what i didnt want someone looking at me as if i was andy from little britan” Make your mind up!

    Comment by Eponoymous — May 22, 2012 @ 9:23 pm

  386. Hi Jeff.

    Well I’ve sized you up, you are illiterate, you can’t spell, and you can’t string a meaningful sentence together, I don’t believe you are working (Your volunteering aren’t you ?) because there would be no need for you to go for an ATOS test unless your one of those benefit scroungers you mentioned on your first post.
    If you don’t have anything positive and uplifting to say, something that can actually help people in genuine need then could you please sling your hook somewhere else.
    By the way you talk about people making the most noise, it seems to me you do a lot of talking for one guy, are you sure your not a scrounger ? because you seem to be making a lot of noise for someone who has only posted a few times.

    Remember the saying Jeff…JUDGE NOT LEAST YEA BE JUDGED.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 22, 2012 @ 10:51 pm

  387. Again Beth, you have fallen into the trap of being judge, jury and executioner and are setting yourself above others by making decisions based upon what you hear. Doing so implies there is no evidence to support what you are hearing, in which case no accurate judgement can be made.

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 5:55 am

  388. As you well know all professionals working within health and social care make their decision based on what they see and hear (including advice workers). We have to work out a persons needs and what support we can offer based on their stories (and what we see) Without doing so we wouldn’t be able to do our jobs, After all, it is illegal to support a fraudulent claim for benefit and the advice worker could face prosecution which, is why some people are refused support with a claim for DLA..

    Comment by Beth — May 23, 2012 @ 7:01 am

  389. With all due respect Beth, there needs to be some evidence to support even your opinion. Yes you can and some do read body language but that is not an effective or recognized test of need which every benefit application is based upon, hence the long waiting lists outside the Tribunals service because of decisions made by people like you based upon their own blinkered opinion.

    Cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 7:55 am

  390. Hi Jeff, I see you chose to respond to some of my questions vicariously through your answer to Beth. Of course I may be wrong here but do you fear disability? You are also contradicting yourself again by admitting you became an angry person, there is nothing wrong with telling it like it is from the start rather than hiding behind the shield of disability hatred. You also say you hate any for of interrogation concerning a persons disability./ I dislike the system we have intensely and know it needs to be reformed but making it more draconian by raising the bar does not make it effective in weeding out those who openly abuse the system by making illegal claims. Your comment on fat lazy sods playing golf was interesting because these people who are caught committing fraud are completely fit and therefore nothing to do with the disabled community. This is a point the Daily Mail forget to make in their scrounger headlines, they prefer to sensationalize one of the benefit fraud because it sells papers. They have been taken to task over this n several occasions and forced to print retractions.

    It is necessary to test disability claims, we are all for a fair method of testing what we disagree with is people with cancer, brain tumors and yes amputees being denied the right to benefits at their time of need which is what most disabled people agreed to when they started paying income tax and NI. We too want a fair test which weeds out the physically fit who make fraudulent claims, these people are greedy and must be great actors because I dont know of one single person who has managed to get DLA without a fight.

    Tell me are you in full tome employment or are you on the work programme or a volunteer?

    cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 8:08 am

  391. I thought this message board was for people who have had , problems with atos .I seems that people like jeff /dwpexamination are now happy to argue why?

    Comment by Antonias — May 23, 2012 @ 12:08 pm

  392. Hello there i wonder if anyone can help me ,i had my examination 2 weeks ago with an atos person .
    What happens now ,do i wait or do i contact the dwp ,its just that my local cab ,are really swamped with people asking the same questions about atos.
    Any help i would really like.
    Iam not very good at asking questions

    Comment by Darryl — May 23, 2012 @ 12:40 pm

  393. Hi Darryl,
    You can just sit tight and wait for the decision letter, until they make a decision they will continue to pay you the assessment rate, Any backdated money (if any) will be paid after a decision has been sent to you,
    Or you can contact them and request a copy of the medical report, based on the information within there you’ll have a pretty good idea of which group they’re going to put you in.

    Comment by Beth — May 23, 2012 @ 1:20 pm

  394. Because as you say it’s for people who are having problems with ATOS not for people like Jeff who have no truck with ATOS.
    We have come to bury ATOS not to praise them..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 1:36 pm

  395. I have been on severall sites and they all seem to be going towards inner fighting .It seems 1 group of disabled people think they are more disabled than another,which is rubbish iam with out arms and i suffer from stress so what group would i be in?
    And i have a voice activated keyboard ,which if i sniff it types sssssssssssssn ,thats true honestly
    I think everybody needs to stop fighting on these sites ,and just start to talk like decent people .
    I think this Jeff guy if he is like me an ex serviceman has issues but is still a disabled person ,so before i sniff again can we please stop the fighting

    Comment by Darryl — May 23, 2012 @ 1:54 pm

  396. Why are you telling me Darryl ? see Jeff he’s the problem so tell him not me..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 3:15 pm

  397. If it wasn’t for the people on this site (The fighters) the likes of you Jeff would be taken to Auschwitz ages ago, probably smiling on the train like a gibbering idiot.
    Please don’t come back, this site isn’t for you, this site is for people who want to learn their rights and beat ATOS and stop their cruelty.

    Thanks in anticipation.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 5:24 pm

  398. Hi Antonias, I am not arguing with Jeff or Beth. I am debating the issues they have raised and I will continue to do so because you and all of our readers need to see what we are up against. Their opinions are the same as a huge number of able bodied people who have been misled by this Government into believing we are a burden to the state. Do you want to be thought of as a burden?

    Cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 5:43 pm

  399. Ta ta then Beth

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 6:55 pm

  400. Jeff I gave you your opportunity to justify your post, you chose not to respond to my offer and the whole issue has descended into a massive waste of our valuable time. Goodbye and good luck

    Cheers

    Nelson

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2012 @ 6:57 pm

  401. Im due for my assessment in 2nd week of June 2012. I had Male Cancer (Testicular) in May 2010 & have been having pain the the operation area gradually increasing since mid 2011. The Dr nor my specialists know what it is & so recently my Dr signed me off. I can do basic things like walk around, but can’t stand for very long nor lift heavy boxes. I also have trouble bending down. Now I’m beginning to become depressed over my condition as its constant irritation. I have no idea what’s going to happen at my assessment & other than showing them my missing ball & scar, along with all my letters, regular check ups etc, it’s gonna be quite hard to prove to them that I’m ill. Worried I won’t pass :-(

    Comment by Mikey — May 24, 2012 @ 12:05 am

  402. I suffer from back pain that an xray confirmed is due to a bone forcing onto my spine and had this for over 20 years. I used to work long distance for years but had to stop as pain was too much with sitting all day. Last time it went it lasted for 8 weeks in that i couldnt walk or move either to sit or stand or sleep was nearly non existant. Last time i went i passed the medical because i was in pain and doctor actually apologised to me for discomfort i was going through.
    Dont ever turn up clean shaven or with clean clothes as this is struck against you on the form, dont say you read magazines or watch tv or even go for messages as they twist everything you say.
    The only person who knows you is your own doctor not someone who doesnt know you and you might go there in a day you feel ok and not terrible, they will write you are fine to them.
    Think before you answer, they will kid on they are your friend, they are none of the sort! Dont be fooled for a min. I did the first time i went and got one point. I appealed and asked them if i got that for turning up! I won my appeal. I go for yet another medical on friday, last time they wanted me to wait for 90 mins due to some sort of backlog but i told them no way would i be able to stand or sit for that lengh of time so they rearranged it for this week.

    Comment by Anonscots — May 24, 2012 @ 1:57 am

  403. Hello Anonscots.

    Good advice, sometimes we learn the hard way though, but this time you are under no illusions.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 24, 2012 @ 6:00 am

  404. Does the ATOS interegrator have access to your medical file? I thought that only Doctors could view a persons records?

    Thanks

    Comment by Wilma H — May 24, 2012 @ 9:32 pm

  405. Hello Wilma.

    Why would ATOS be remotely interested in viewing your medical file ?. Could you or anyone give me one good reason why they would want to bother themselves looking at your medical file ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 24, 2012 @ 10:11 pm

  406. Wilma you would be lucky if the atos hcp even glances at the ES50 you spent ages filling in, there’s such a disconnect between the questions they put to you so insensitively and the information you have supplied on the form.

    Comment by DeCam — May 25, 2012 @ 7:15 am

  407. You are a blank slate as far as the atos hcp is concerned. I’m only surprised I wasn’t selected for the 2012 Olympics after my own assessment charade!

    Comment by DeCam — May 25, 2012 @ 7:18 am

  408. Anonscots if you turn up looking dishevelled and unshaven the atos hcp will still say you were well presented and dressed casually but smart. I know because I was the former and they made me into the latter on the report ………..because they lie, because they can………

    Comment by DeCam — May 25, 2012 @ 7:24 am

  409. Reading The Sun on Sunday today & they are trying to get the unemployed to work 30hrs/wk to get there £67.50 unemployment benefit. That works out @ £2.25/hr ! How can they try and do this when the minimum wage is approx. £6.00 ?

    Comment by Will. k — May 27, 2012 @ 3:06 pm

  410. Hello Will.

    I don’t know how they can justify it, because it’s against the law, but I suppose they can say that ‘work is good for your health” etc.
    well I suppose it is if you can do the job within your health limits and the wage is £65 thousand plus a year, but to be forced in to a mind numbing meaningless job that can only damage your health can only be counter productive in the end .

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 28, 2012 @ 6:07 am

  411. Hi Will,

    The govt can do anything and its probably another way to show that everyone on benefits is capable of some form of work particularly if given the choice of work or starve, of course you could also consider such an underhanded tactic as low paid slavery so maybe if its enforced perhaps the human rights activists could get involved!!

    Comment by tmir — May 28, 2012 @ 5:40 pm


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