Dwp examination

The great ESA swindle

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For the last few months Joe and I have been looking at the processes ATOS are using to select their victims. There are 3 catagories;

A face to face assessment (F2F)

The Work Related Activity Group of ESA (WRAG)

The Support Group of ESA (SG)

When you ESA50 lands on the desk of the HCP carrying out the postal reviews you will be placed in one of these groups, this is what we think happens.

Face to face assessment

If you have no previous record with ATOS you will be called in for a face to face assessment. They do not know you and thus do not trust you regardless of the evidence of sickness/disability you provide. They can not afford to miss a trick and so will likely as not call you in. After your F2F the HCP will decide your destination by awarding a number of points, 15 means you get to keep your benefits. Any less means you are considered fit for work, though they are careful not to use these words.

The Work Related Activity Group (WRAG)

The WRAG has 2 sections they are

Contributions based

If you have previous with ATOS and they know you will appeal they may choose to place you straight into the WRAG without a F2F. The decision to put you in the Contributions based WRAG means your ESA will be time limited to 12 months, that means if you have been in receipt of ESA 3 months prior to the decision to place you in the WRAG being made, you have only 9 months of ESA left before you lose your entitlement and someone else i.e your partner has to keep you because they are earning more than £149.00 per week.

You will also be required to attend 5 back to work reviews where you will be advised of the help available to assist you back to work. You may be required to attend training programmes at the whim of your advisor.

Income based

This is similar to income support. Long story short, your needs and those of your partner if you have one are compared with your resources, such as your income and savings, and the income-related allowance worked out from this comparison.

You cannot get income-related ESA if your capital or savings (or you and your partner’s capital or savings) is above an upper savings limit of £16,000.

Your benefit will also be affected if your capital or savings (or you and your partner’s capital or savings) is above a lower savings limit of £6,000. If you are permanently in a care home this lower limit is £10,000.

If you need extra money to look after a child, you should claim child tax credit.

The Support Group

If it is decided that you have a limited capability for work-related activity, you will be placed in the support group. If you are placed in this group, you will not have to undertake work-related activities (though you can volunteer to do so if you want).

Time limiting of contribution based ESA (CESA)

From April 2012, if you are in the work related activity group (WRAG) you can only get contribution based ESA for one year. This time limit includes any time you were getting contribution based ESA before April 2012.

Depending upon your family income and/or capital levels, it is possible that when your contribution based ESA ends, you will become entitled to one or more means tested benefits such as income related ESA, housing benefit or council tax benefit.

So how does the scam work?

ATOS and the DWP collude to ensure those who are more likely to lose their entitlement to ESA under time limiting are placed in the WRAG.

At the end of 12 months (including any period of time before the rule was brought in April 2012) entitlement to ESA ends. This has several beneficial effects for ATOS and the DWP

Waiting lists and for ATOS are reduced.
Recurring assessments are no longer necessary reducing the backlog further.
The DWP have a legal reason to suspend benefits at the end of the 12 month time limiting period.
The numbers in receipt of sickness benefits falls

Presto chango all of a sudden all is well for the Government, we suffer as a result of this dreadful con.

What can we do?

We can at least ensure ATOS and the DWP work hard if they are going to deny our benefits. If you find yourself in the unfortunate position of being placed in the WRAG Contributory ESA and you believe you should be in the Support group Contributory ESA, contact the DWP and ask for the ESA 85 report, the score sheet and a GL 24 appeal form and appeal to be placed in the Support group immediately.


  1. i was in wrag group and am under appeal it isfunny after so called medical they said i was fit to work and yet get letter stating all money stops 30th april can’t be in wrag because my injuries mean i can’t work but your medical says i can so i stated what if i win appeal oh erm you may go in surrport group and you must still give us sick notes and may still have to attend medicals all the same rules without any money i have always stated at back to work interviews you get the nhs to repair me i will gladly go back to work oh no it does’nt work like that stalemate all the time and as you can see they make the rules up to suit the occasion

    Comment by head56 — April 22, 2012 @ 10:38 am

  2. I have just rec my medical assesment and scored 0 ,i had a total knee replacement nov 2011 and have had a slow recovery and am now waiting for letter with date for 2nd total knee replacement as surgeon has advised my 2nd knee needs doing asap, i am in constant pain and walking is very painful and i am tired all the time from lack of sleep, i only go out to hopsital or doctors appointments as i am not stable on my legs, iam putting a lot of pressure on my knee replacement. I am going to appeal as i have always worked and went back to work straight after my 2 daughters were born. I have to take this period of time to get my two new knees and from surgery, this is all so stressfull, i am going through these operations to get rid of pain and be able to walk and get my life back and get back to work! The assesment was not a true assesment of the medical, she lied and entered information that was not discussed and did not enter the answers i gave. I am so distressed and scared of having to appeal,but i have always worked and feel wronged as must all other claimants.

    Comment by sue — June 8, 2012 @ 2:40 pm

  3. That’s what they are trying to do, force us all to appeal, some will not appeal even though they should and would win, they just can’t be bothered with the hassle and so decide to live on their savings, of course there comes a time when the savings run out, and then what are they going to do ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 8, 2012 @ 7:29 pm

  4. I have been ‘fighting’ the system for the last 2 years (had my neurosurgery 1 week ago) and with the help of my MP I received a startling phone call from DWP a couple of weeks ago. Out of the blue they phoned me and said I was being placed in the ESA group for 2 years thus releasing me from the WRAG group and my MP also received a letter to this effect.

    I feel no victory as such but just want to let people know to NEVER give up the cause and keep going with their case no matter how despondent they may feel and to take the knock-backs and respond accordingly. They may still come after me again I know but I am in a much stronger position now and will carry on the fight as long as I have the strength to do so…

    Comment by Gail — July 14, 2012 @ 7:11 pm

  5. I had been receiving contributory based ESA Work Related for over a year and therefore it ceased on 30 April as they threatened. I have a Personality Disorder which cannot be cured; just managed the best I can with help from my local MH hospital. My husband ran up debts having to ‘keep’ me when the benefit stopped. I was told by my jobcentre to apply for JSA but I told them I couldn’t as was not well enough to deal with the application, never mind having to tell lies that I had been applying for jobs. I too had written to my MP but got a standard response, not sympathetic at all. Out of the blue, a letter appeared telling me that there had been a change and I am now placed in the Support Group. Therefore my benefit has started again. I have no idea how and why this happened, although it has been a total miracle. All I can think is that maybe they do reassess the paperwork? Wanted to share my story to give a glimmer of hope to others who no doubt are suffering as badly as me and my husband were until we received this latest news.

    Comment by Anonymous — August 9, 2012 @ 7:54 pm

  6. Hello Anonymous.

    I believe it’s because you refused to sign on, and that has made them realise you are not joking and mean what you say.
    Good luck and take care, just remember they will assess you in the future so be ready for them, and if they take you of the support group you can appeal, this concession from them will help any possible appeals in the future.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 9, 2012 @ 9:39 pm

  7. hi,i’m currently receiving contribution based esa,which is due to end in dec.ive been placed in a wrag group.i suffer a incurable condition of my nervous system which most days has me house bound.if i appeal to be put in a support group ( which i think i should be in ) will i keep my money after december.my partner works full time.i’ve also worked full time up until last june when i was diagnosed.even with my esa and dla our income has taken a big hit,and i’m worried about how we’ll manage as a family.

    Comment by joanne — September 1, 2012 @ 4:20 pm

  8. Yes Joanne…if you appeal to get in the support group and win then you will stay on ESA at least until the next time you are assessed.
    So you have nothing to lose by appealing and winning, so get started immediately, contact CAB or your local welfare rights and don’t forget to go here for help as well http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 1, 2012 @ 5:51 pm

  9. thank you for putting my mind at ease.all i have to do now is win the appeal lol.i will keep you updated on the progress

    Comment by Anonymous — September 2, 2012 @ 6:49 pm

  10. I have just received the letter stating that i too failed medical and scored 0 points, although atos has even said that i have to go up and downstairs on my bum because of pain in knees, I was terminated from my job in february as i was no longer fit to do the driving and lifting required, I am already appealing dla decision now i have to appeal esa too, sick to the back teeth of this nonsense, have worked all my life and paid my contributions but cant get any help from dwp,

    Comment by Hayley Lindsay — October 17, 2012 @ 9:46 pm

  11. Hayley.

    The DWP are out to take not give, forget anything they say, it’s all bull, just go ahead and appeal and win.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 17, 2012 @ 11:10 pm

  12. I was on ESA WRAG due to mental heath grounds and had medical in April. I was due to start a work trial in July through Shaw Trust. The job would only be viable (due to travelling distance) if I was eligible for Back to Work Credit. DWP then sent me a letter saying I had been awarded 0 points and backdated the decision to June so I wouldn’t get back to Work Credit. They then delayed my claim for JSA (after it was processed the only “help” I was offered by the jobcentre were threats to stop JSA if I did not do everything they asked) and the stress pushed me to the edge of a breakdown. I got another fit note and was referred to the Mental Health Crisis Team. Sick note was faxed and emailed to processing centre by local jobcentre (and acknowledgement of receipt received) as well as posted. After waiting 3 weeks with no money my claim was refused as they claimed not to have received fit note. I was pushed to the edge and attempted suicide rather than starve. They then decided to accept my claim but put me back to the assessment rate. I completed the ESA50 and in a phone call with ATOS today I was told “good news for you, we have asked for and received further info from your GP and we do not require you to attend assessment”. Apparently they have now sent forms to Decision Maker. I am still worried as I have heard of these people saying “Good News” and “Congratulations” when you fail the assessment as they seem to think that 0 points means they have cured you of your condition.

    Comment by David — October 19, 2012 @ 8:13 pm

  13. Hello David.

    Don’t worry about things that are outside your control, let’s see what the so called decision maker says, and then we can take it from there.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 20, 2012 @ 8:47 am

  14. went to jc today to put in appeal about esa having been stopped female just came out asked if husband in full time employment all i got was no it’s the law and just kept walking on this mon 5th is my month up to appeal

    Comment by ANNE — November 2, 2012 @ 6:08 pm

  15. Anne…I’m sorry but I’m not being funny, but I simply can’t read your post, no human being could understand it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 2, 2012 @ 8:46 pm

  16. im confused i passed my medical been told i am unfit for work due to a mental health illness but im in the wrag group can someone explain what this means plze

    Comment by sarah richards — November 5, 2012 @ 7:25 pm

  17. Hello Sarah.

    Once you have been granted ESA, there are two types, the first group, the group you have been placed is the WRAG, this means Work related activity group, and anyone in that group is expected to accept help from the DWP to get back in to work, this can take the form of interviews, or in some cases a compulsory course to help you on your way, nonsense stuff like learning how to compose a CV, or being forced to work in Tesco etc.
    The other group of ESA is the Support group, this group are not expected to find work, but according to the DWP can get help to return to work if they so wish, the choice is theirs, you need to be in a real bad way indeed to be granted the support group.

    If you feel you should be in the Support group of ESA rather than the WRAG, then you can appeal, take advice from the CAB or Welfare rights if you decide to do this.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 5, 2012 @ 9:17 pm

  18. thanku very much for getting back to me.

    Comment by sarah richards — November 5, 2012 @ 9:22 pm

  19. Hi – Stephen here. Am a 54 yr old single disabled parent, with an 11yr old girl. I have been fighting for my ESA for more than 4 yrs now, and its always the same thing. ATAS find you fit for work, (latest scam is “If you can lift a small empty cardboard box in both hands you are fit for work”). THATS the one that failed me this last time.
    My doctor was told not to issue anymore sick notes FOR THE SAME CONDITION regardless of whether sick with that condition or not. But the appeal board told me that I was legally entitled to do so, “But I never told you this” she said.
    So I re-claim every time and I am turned down by ATAS everytime.
    I am appealing yet again and expect no less than the same treatment this time.
    As is said above, DO NOT GIVE IN! – It is for the purpose of lowering the unemployment figures, to make the government look like they are actually doing something to right the unemployment in this country, (Partly due to the taking in of hundreds of thousands of immigrants, in a time of high unemployment), and to make the Prime Minister look like he actually has a brain inside that spoiled brat with a slapped face look head – he runs around with!

    Comment by Stephen Rooke — November 6, 2012 @ 12:54 pm

  20. Hi Stephen.

    As you already know, it’s got absolutely nothing to do with how ill you are, and everything to do with figure manipulation and withholding money to give to Cameron’s rich corporate friends, those same people who were all banging tables and screaming their heads of when the result of the last election was announced.
    They say, every dog has it’s day, well one day Stephen we are going to have our day when these scumbags and their Lib-dem traitor friends get thrown out on their ass/s, when that day comes, I for one will bang my table like there’s no tomorrow.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 7, 2012 @ 7:35 am

  21. I too have been finished on contributory based esa 30/10/12 attended atos 29/6/12 assessment gave me 12 points. Said fit for work. Suffer with spinal stenosis and on waiting list for operation, experience back and leg pain when walking, standing and sitting still dwp say fit for work.I have appealed and appealed the appeal but getting knowhere fast,any ideas where going wrong. Cheers

    Comment by Anthony Gregg — November 7, 2012 @ 3:25 pm

  22. Anthony again, what I cant understand is u are assessed in the first 13weeks for esa, I left my job because of ongoing pain, had back and leg pain in the 90s,due to heavy manual labour. Left job 30/10/11 signed on sick issued docs note ,had f2f assessment with atos nurse horrible lady she was missing the SS badge,on the 29/12/12 I thought it had tobe carried out within the 13 weeks. Were atos and dwp coluding. I did appeal last year and had a tribunal date but never attended because of a fresh claim in esa cont based, I regret not attending but will attend next case.

    Comment by Anthony Gregg — November 7, 2012 @ 4:02 pm

  23. You were assessed by an ATOS nurse on the 29 December 2012 ? I’m not getting you Anthony.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 7, 2012 @ 11:43 pm

  24. Morning, sorry should of been 29th june 2012.Also I filled in esa50 form and ticked no in the moving around for 50mtrs cannot do, the Hcp nurse written can move 200 mtrs, I did say to her find it difficult at 20mtrs. The Dwp DM wrote I can walk 100 mtrs. I should of been awarded 15 points. The same applies to sitting and standing I picked up 6 points, instead of 9 . Should of pickedup 24 points but given 12 because of false information being fabricated isthis fraudulent activities on there part.

    Comment by Anthony Gregg — November 8, 2012 @ 8:03 am

  25. Re my previous comments (post 12). I know the jobcentre have ES85A from ATOS because they told me I have been placed in support group. They also said the papers were still with the decision maker (what is to be decided if they have already made the decision?) and I have not yet received any money. Last week I was told claim would be processed by the end of that week or beginning of this week. I am now told it could be another 4-6 weeks. I know I am fortunate to be in the support group but I cannot understand the delay in payments or what they are deciding on now.

    Comment by David — November 8, 2012 @ 10:18 am

  26. i have been refused contribution based esa due to my boss not paying my NI AND TAX i have put in for income based due to having no income whatsoever……this has went on for 7weeks now..how long do the take to sort the matter out and if refused income based do you know of any other benefits that i should put in for…….

    Comment by stewart — November 8, 2012 @ 3:28 pm

  27. Anthony.

    The ESA 65 is a watered down variation of the ESA 85, ESA 65 is what the DWP decision maker sends you, hoping you will not ask for the ESA 85, so get on it and get the ESA 85 and see all the lies the HCP said about you.

    Yes it’s fraud, but they can do as they please.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 8, 2012 @ 4:08 pm

  28. Thanks for reply,but will my evidence stack up in a court of law.

    Comment by Anthony Gregg — November 8, 2012 @ 4:10 pm

  29. David.

    The delay in payments is nothing unusual, they pay you when they feel like it, it’s a nightmare, once I waited nearly four months for money owed.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 8, 2012 @ 4:16 pm

  30. Stewart.

    If you can’t get income related then all there is left is Job seekers allowance.
    It’s a shambles, an absolute shambles, all I can say is it must be absolute bedlam every day in a DWP office.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 8, 2012 @ 4:18 pm

  31. thank you for your reply i cant get jsa as i am still employed and only on the sick at the minute…you are right the place and the system is one laughing stock…..thanks again….

    Comment by stewart — November 8, 2012 @ 4:47 pm

  32. Of course it will Anthony, especially when you have all the members on our sister site ready willing and able to come to your aid with their cases as further proof. http://www.dwpexamination.org
    It’s just that you won’t get any financial help from the Government, they’re not going to help you take them to court, so have you say 2 or 3 hundred thousand pounds to pay lawyers to assist you in winning your case ?.
    And even if you have, at the first sign of any legal problems from you or anyone, one would find a letter from ATOS saying they were sorry and your case has been investigated etc, found in your favour and an offer of a few paltry pounds as compensation, plus of course a reinstatement of all your benefits which they would admit you were entitled too.
    Your lawyer would then advise you that this is a great deal, and you should best take it, because tangling with the Government in a court of law is a long weary road etc.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 8, 2012 @ 7:06 pm

  33. Hello Stewart.

    The world of benefits is a tricky business, you should be entitled to something if you are in trouble, I can suggest contacting the CAB or your local welfare rights office for advice, they have experts who know all the tricks the Department of work and pensions resort too, and can help you legally thread your way through a potential minefield.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 8, 2012 @ 7:24 pm

  34. ive just been knocked off contributionary esa as my partner is working and they have stopped my payments now ,and are crediting me with national insurance stamp,we get child benefit and working tax credit and child tax credits.they have told me to live on my husbands wages and jobcentre are not helping trying to send me to volunteer courses and not paying me anything theyve told me im not in the wrag a\nymore ,i dont know what to do know as im not fit 4 work and havent been since my car accident in 2008 which has left me witth nerve and mobility problems anyone know what im supposed to ?thanks sandra

    Comment by sandra harrison — November 9, 2012 @ 1:39 pm

  35. Hello Sandra.

    We have been warning everyone for the last three years what they’re plans are, very few listened, and now we’re in this dreadful mess with little hope.
    When they say live of your husbands wages ? that’s what they mean, they have no mercy Sandra, they take the view if you want money then sign on or starve. It’s cruel, but that’s what they are doing and getting away with, it’s only a matter of time before someone gets very very upset and decides to take the law in to their own hands, I can see it coming.

    Think up a username and log in here http://www.dwpexamination.org they can give the best help, it’s a free forum and we don’t charge anyone a penny for any help we give.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 9, 2012 @ 2:14 pm

  36. I got 15pts for ‘consciousness’ at my ESA medical. Shouldn’t this put me in the Support Group? I thought if you scored 15 pts on any one test it was automatically Support Group.

    Comment by Judy — November 9, 2012 @ 2:31 pm

  37. Yesterday morning (see post 25 for previous history) I was also told that, as I had been placed in the Support Group, I no longer needed to send Fit Notes. Yesterday afternoon I got a letter saying my Fit Note expires on 12/11 and I need a new one from 13/11. As this letter is dated 5/11, I initially thought that yesterday’s telephone advice would supersede it. However, after worrying all night I decided to phone again this morning. This time I was told that I am not going in the Support Group until 21/11 and need a Fit Note to cover me until then. If I had gone by yesterday’s call then my claim would have been closed (and the DWP would have saved money) and I would have been left with no income whatsoever.

    Comment by David — November 9, 2012 @ 3:57 pm

  38. You can get in to the support group with zero points, you see…it’s all baloney, that’s right, people have been granted the support group – some without even being assessed face to face – and when they asked how many points they got at their assessment, the answer was none.

    So get this idea out of your head that you need points to get the support group, if you have been placed in the WRAG and your not happy then you the option of appealing.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 9, 2012 @ 5:42 pm

  39. David.

    Every time you talk to these bozos on the phone, don’t take their word for anything, insist you get it in writing.
    The people you talk to on the phone are of the lowest calibre of retard, and couldn’t care less, some of them actually make things up just to fob you off.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 9, 2012 @ 5:53 pm

  40. Thank you. Yes, I was placed in WRAG 20 months ago (from Support Group) and told could work within 6 months. Guess what – I haven’t been able to work in all that time and now they’ve put me in WRAG again saying I should be able to work within 6 months! Yes, I am appealing.

    Comment by Judy — November 9, 2012 @ 6:32 pm

  41. Judy.

    Get advice from the CAB or welfare rights before you appeal, there’s a couple of pitfalls you need to be aware of if you are appealing to get from the WRAG into the Support group.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 10, 2012 @ 2:02 am

  42. What are the pifalls to appealing from wrag to support group, and what will cab and welfare do to support individual to appeal. What is there success rate in wimning appeals. The only reason im saying this is that I too have appealed against the system andtheir failure to recognise us as human beings and eroding our human rights when all we want is stress free support, they know who is abusing the system but they make us suffer, like you said looks good for goverment and all political parties who side with steal from the poor, we live in a democratic society but still treated in a edwardian way by classes and this will never change unless we are counted and respected for who we are not second rate citizens.

    Comment by Anthony Gregg — November 10, 2012 @ 8:47 am

  43. Hello Anthony.

    When you apply to get from the WRAG in to the support group you will find that the DWP will force you to go forward to an appeal panel who will hear your case, and one of the pitfalls is that these appeal panels have the power to take as well as give, incredible isn’t it, they can actually take away your ESA and find you fit for work if they so wish, that’s why you need to be careful and appeal because you really should be in the support group, and get some help.
    There are other pitfalls as well which demands that you seek help from Professionals, such as sometimes the DWP do not send the appeal panels all of your appeal and evidence, so you could be under the impression that the appeal panel are reading of the same page as you, when in fact they are on another page because they don’t have the same information as you, and was planned deliberately by the DWP to attempt to weaken your chance of winning an appeal.
    The CAB or welfare rights can check your paperwork for you, sometimes they can help to write your appeal in the best way, and even represent you for free at an appeal.
    The success rates figures for these appeals, or any appeals for that matter are in the hands of the DWP themselves and since these bastards are nothing but compulsive liars, and have no morals or qualms in fabricating figures to suit themselves then the truth is no one knows what the true figures are.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 10, 2012 @ 9:58 am

  44. Thanks. Will do.

    Comment by Judy — November 10, 2012 @ 10:22 am

  45. I received a letter today stating I am in the Support Group from 21/11. The letter does not say when I will be reviewed. Also, Last week I requested a copy of the medical report and was told it would be with me by the end of the week. Since the letter I received today was dated after my request for the report I assume they haven’t sent the report yet. Can they refuse to send the report and do they have to tell me how long I have been placed in the Support Group for. They have already tried to con me into closing my claim (see my previous post.

    Comment by David — November 10, 2012 @ 12:26 pm

  46. Is this legal – i was receiving contribution based esa because my employee dismissed me for ill health (fibromyalgia) when the 12 months ended i lost it.I wrote to DWP and said I was even worse and should be in support group so they said they would re-assess me and sent me for an atos medical (again) they place me in the WRAG despite the doctor saying i has severe disability in upper and lower limbs and would not expect even if i could work not be able to for at least 2 years – so i appealed i have waited 6 months all the time being told they were waiting for the health care ;professional to see if the decision could be reversed in my favor
    .I called them to day to find out was going on and they have told me i cannot go to appeal and have to have another medical

    Comment by steve — November 13, 2012 @ 6:02 pm

  47. Steve.

    They put you in the WRAG and they say you cannot go to appeal for the support group ? but have to go for another assessment instead ?.
    You should be getting professional help on this, contact the Citizens advice or Welfare rights as soon as possible.
    What they say over the phone can mean nothing or can mean everything, the phone is just not reliable enough, they can and do deny they say certain things on the phone.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 13, 2012 @ 6:23 pm

  48. Yes i have asked them what this medical is supposed to achieve seeing as i had one in may and it is the decision following that medical (putting me back in the WRAG) THAT i AM APPEALING AGAINST i think this is just a ploy if they reverse the decision they will have to back pay me from may, if they give me another medical and put me in the support group they will only have to pay from the day that decision was made. I am an army veteran so the RBL was going to represent me at a tribunal but it is this that they seem to be refusing me.

    Comment by steve — November 13, 2012 @ 6:35 pm

  49. Steve…You’ve hit the nail on the head, it’s a scam and a ploy to stop you from any type of gain, well at least your under no illusions.
    I can’t see how they can deny you that appeal, I can see them telling you that, but getting away with it ?.
    I think it’s all a bluff on their part, keep hammering away at them and you will win

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 14, 2012 @ 8:43 am

  50. Royal British legion contacted them today and was told this was an error and i would not be due a medical until 2014 but said he would have to get a supervisor to look at it ..still await a reply so fingers crossed

    Comment by steve — November 14, 2012 @ 12:50 pm

  51. Steve.

    You need it in writing, he says etc is unacceptable, in writing is what you want.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 14, 2012 @ 1:49 pm

  52. hi i wenttribuneral score 30 points put in wrag now they tell me money stopping i should be in support group 15 points for bowels 6 points walking 9points coping with change i just dont understand

    Comment by ann — November 14, 2012 @ 2:20 pm

  53. indeed hoping for a letter either reversing original decision or tribunal date

    Comment by steve — November 14, 2012 @ 2:32 pm

  54. Hello ann.

    The tribunal put you in the WRAG ? but you feel you should have been put in the support group ? then you will have to discuss it with your representative and see if you can appeal to get in the support group. And the first thing they will do is ask for a statement of reasons from the panel on why they didn’t grant the support group.

    Your money is stopping presumably because you are on Contributory ESA (WRAG) which ends after 365 days, and is retrospective.

    If you had been granted the support group of ESA by the tribunal instead of the WRAG then it does not end after 365 days, but continues until your next fixed assessment by ATOS.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 14, 2012 @ 2:47 pm

  55. Hello,
    I am very confused here, I am like many here, I passed the ATOS examination, got the 15 points or more?, then now they put me into the WRAG.
    I called them to know why and they told me:
    “its not that we say that you are fit to work, but that you need to attend the JC course(s) ?”
    The mind boggle… I said but if you see I am not fit to work, why do you put me into the WRAG? The reply was that this is the government new criteria and that to be put into the support group, its really hard. Near Dead I reckon…
    Now, I will be appealing this with CAB, they are great people, caring and professional.
    I requested all the medical examination and the reason why I was on the WRAG. Waiting on all of this to start the appeal.
    Now, what are the ESA 85 report and the score sheet? Are they the medical report?
    As I am in the WRAG, am I in this category below:
    Your money is stopping presumably because you are on Contributory ESA (WRAG) which ends after 365 days, and is retrospective.
    Would my payment stopped after a year?

    Confused and dazed here???

    Thank you :)

    Comment by Anonymous — November 14, 2012 @ 3:30 pm

  56. im sure if tribunal has put you in WRAG then you can only appeal to the upper tier but the original tribunal does not have to accept their findings dont quote me on this but im sure that’s the way it works

    Comment by steve — November 14, 2012 @ 3:42 pm

  57. It wasn’t a tribunal, it was a DWP agent that made the decision. I got a call yesteray from one of them and he was a bit wondering why I was in the WRAG and told me to contact the office that had made the decision to know why. They call me back today saying its the way it is and I need to appeal, then go to a tribunal now.
    Cheers :)

    Comment by Anonymous — November 14, 2012 @ 4:04 pm

  58. Anonymous.

    The DWP have come to the conclusion that you should be in the Work related group of ESA, and since you are not happy then you can if you wish appeal to the first tier tribunal.
    If I were you I would take advice first as soon as possible from say the CAB or welfare rights, meanwhile don’t delay, get the GL24 appeal form and the ESA85 assessment report and all your other documents together then see what an independent adviser has to say on your chances of winning.

    Appealing to get in to the support group is not as simple as it seems, because the first tier tribunal have the power to reverse even the DWPs original decision against you, in other words they have the power if they so wish to deny you even the WRAG of ESA, crazy but true, so don’t go it alone here, get advice first, see what your chances are then make a decision on whether you want to go the whole hog and get in to the support group.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 14, 2012 @ 6:01 pm

  59. Thank you.
    First its not the DWP that come to this decision, its an agent, a person, someone working there that make this personal decision. The DWP is too vague. One person from the DWP was a bit putting back of this decision as he hint me to call the department that made the decision to talk to the person who made it and ask why.
    I am waiting on all the paperwork as posted above, GL24 included, and the CAB will be with me at the appeal as they help me filling the form as I cannot.
    Again, what is the ESA 85 report? Is that the medical report? Thank you.
    If the first tier tribunal reverse the original decision with my atos medical report in hand, there would be something seriously wrong there… I indeed should be in the support group not the WRAG, but as I was told by the DWP, the government criteria have changed, if you can get up of bed, dress yourself and sometimes cook a meal( a toast?), you are in the WRAG as the government find you fit to work… Truly, what the hell is that?
    Its like the documentary on dispach, the ATOS doctor trainee saying:
    Even If you got only 1 finger left and you can press a button, you are manually able to work…
    What is wrong with those people… And they ( all law maker, MPs etc…) fiddle expenses for themselves at the government for 1000s of pounds and get away with it…

    Comment by Anonymous — November 14, 2012 @ 6:22 pm

  60. Hello Anonymous.

    The DWP don’t make the decision ? it’s someone working there that’s not employed by the DWP ? Mmmmm ok, have you got any evidence of this ? actual evidence ?, not hearsay, because I’ve never heard of that before, and would be very interested in learning more.

    Yes the ESA85 is the functional assessment report that ATOS send to the DWP about you and is what the decision maker basis there decision on whether your work fit or not.

    You are entitled to a copy, you need to see it because you might not know what your appealing against if you don’t see it.

    But the problem is the DWP know that looking at the assessment report will help you to win your appeal because the majority of it will be lies, so they delay it for as long as possible, and since you only have a month to appeal then it makes things more tricky.

    So to get round this you can still appeal on the GL24 form anyway and meet their monthly deadline, and mention when you finally receive the ESA85 assessment report, then the rest of the appeal will follow after you have studied it in great detail.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 14, 2012 @ 7:03 pm

  61. Thank you for the explanation on the 85 form,
    I was not saying the DWP is not making the decision, I was saying a person at the DWP is making that decision, as I said before, one of the DWP person I spoke too seems to be taking aback on the decision “someone” “a person” at the DWP made. I was just saying its all about one person making the decision, regardless of any feelings, or athos report. If you have 15 points over, this person cannot put you lower then the WRAG ( maybe there is some self interest there, bonuses?) then put you in the WRAG, even if you qualify for the Support group.
    Now, previously we had Atos that was conducting the medical assessment, you have the point you pass, this was stressful enough, my first assessment and got 0 points, the person doing it was totally biased on its report, a sad bastard ( who is making 1000s/ month in salary on the back of poor people), went to the appeal and won. Now I got another ATOS assessment, got the points, and I need to go to the work related group. Trully, What the hell is that. ATOS already killed a lot of people denying them their right to be sick/ hill, but now this is not enough, even if you pass, you need to attend WRAG… Trully. This is so wrong…

    I hope I am making sense…
    Daze and confused…

    Comment by Anonymous — November 14, 2012 @ 7:38 pm

  62. Has anybody actally been on these 6 work related activity group?

    Comment by bakingmad2 — November 15, 2012 @ 6:17 pm


    Comment by steve — November 15, 2012 @ 7:39 pm

  64. You will be okay with atos then, roll up in a coffin they will find u fit for work.

    Comment by Anthony Gregg — November 15, 2012 @ 8:02 pm

  65. I had a medical with ATOS 15th October. I felt ashamed of things,and my condition, which is alcohol addiciton, and mental health issues. I ended up saying I was coping better than I am. I got a letter a couple of weeks ago, that said I’d be ESA with top-up for disabilty, and in WRAG group. I’m going to show willing, and go for interviews when asked. I can always say how I felt so ashamed, and could not say fully how bad things were, when I go.

    Comment by ellie — November 16, 2012 @ 1:34 pm

  66. I’m sure the best you would have got anyway would have been the WRAG of ESA, the interviews aren’t that bad actually, they just ask questions like what you worked at before and we can offer certain help and GRANTS IF YOU FIND WORK ETC..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 16, 2012 @ 1:50 pm

  67. i am currently in wrag group,and have asked to have my claim looked at again to be put in support group.my money is due to stop on the 6th of december and havent heard of a decision yet.if they still disagree,can i appeal after my money has been stopped.( currently receiving contribution based esa).find it all so confusing unfair and disgusting!!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by jojo — November 19, 2012 @ 12:31 pm

  68. jojo.

    Yes if you are placed in the WRAG and they do not re-consider in your favour then you can appeal to get into the support group.
    Take advice from experienced professionals like the CAB or Welfare rights, they will show you the best way forward that suits you..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 19, 2012 @ 2:23 pm

  69. I am doing the same i put my appeal in after my medical in may its taken them 6 months to come to the desicion that they want me to go for another medical which i am refusing to do

    Comment by steve — November 19, 2012 @ 5:14 pm

  70. good on you! i will be ding the same if they ask me aswell.i will keep you all updated if i ever hear from them!

    Comment by Anonymous — November 19, 2012 @ 6:39 pm

  71. hi left a message before think message 54 after tribuneral put me in wrag my esa finished nowcan i put in new claim

    Comment by ann — November 20, 2012 @ 6:35 pm


    Comment by steve — November 20, 2012 @ 6:42 pm

  73. you say i carnt put in new claim 2 weeks ago i put disc out spine carnt bend or dress on myown thils would be different claim for newillness

    Comment by ann — November 20, 2012 @ 7:25 pm

  74. My personal advice is appeal at first instance you dont put a fresh claim in for a ongoing condition that u are receiving fit notes and treatment for the condition I suspect. That info u read was bad advice.

    Comment by Anthony Gregg — November 20, 2012 @ 7:35 pm

  75. sorry dont understand i have not put in claim for my back as i only did it twoweeks ago. i have sent 2 gl24 forms in no one has replyed tome the last one was 3 weeks ago. i would liketo no if i can make new claimwith my back condistion.

    Comment by ann — November 20, 2012 @ 7:41 pm

  76. if since your last appeal or medical your condition has worsened you can ask to be assessed to be placed in the support group you need to ask for a “super session” you will have to provide supporting documentation from your GP or hospital you will then most likely get a form known as the work related activity form and you may well get called for another medical they may then reverse their decision in your favor

    Comment by steve — November 20, 2012 @ 7:41 pm

  77. thank you what about the gl24 formi have sent in. and if all that fails do i put in new claim back

    Comment by ann — November 20, 2012 @ 7:49 pm

  78. sorry im confused your comments in item 71 you say a tribunal put you in the WRAG that means a decision has been made the fact you have recently injured your back is immaterial to that decision you are still in the WRAG your only option is to appeal that decision and asked to be put in the support group and your ground for this is your condition worsening due to your back but unless this a permanent injury and not something that can be fixed you will not succeed

    Comment by steve — November 20, 2012 @ 7:50 pm

  79. Well the GL24 is the appeal form so i presume you are appealing against being put in the WRAG is this correct

    Comment by steve — November 20, 2012 @ 8:05 pm

  80. yes this is correct have i done the right thing i sent it back nearly three weeks ago and have heard nothing i am sorry to keep asking dont get all this iwas sixty sept should have been getting mypension

    Comment by ann — November 20, 2012 @ 8:40 pm

  81. IT takes ages to hear anything rom DWP be patient

    Comment by steve — November 20, 2012 @ 9:19 pm

  82. thank you once again for your messages yesterday ann

    Comment by ann — November 21, 2012 @ 6:11 pm

  83. I have just won ESA APpeal and today recieved letter to advise on WRAG. I have had two Total knee replacements in 9 months, Ibs and urinary incontinence since 2nd knee op and waiting to see urologist. The stress of coping with all this is unbearable and having to go through ESA appeal few weeks after surgery has left me exhausted. I have worked all my life and am really disappointed at how all these people have been treated when genuine illness causes people to claim. I am lucky because somewhere down the line my problems will be improved and eventually I will be “Back in the rat race” and treated with self respect and not the disdain I have experienced at my Medical, where she commented on my hair and painted nails!

    Comment by Sue — November 22, 2012 @ 1:10 am

  84. What did you appeal against ?

    Comment by steve — November 22, 2012 @ 1:41 am

  85. I am at the end of my tether with the whole process. I “passed” my medical and was placed in the work related support group. I go into hospital every 12 weeks for 5 days and am unwell up to a month afterwards. After this my condition is up and down and totally unpredictable. I had my Atos medical on 19/9/12 and today I have been sent the forms again and told I will need to attend another medical after Christmas! I complained as I thought this was a nonsense and was told by the DWP that I needed to be seen again as I had stated that I would appeal!! I am treated at a specialist neurological hospital in London and see a specialist doctor who states I am disabled but as far as Atos and DWP are concerned I am fit for work – please tell me who would employ someone who has minimum 4 months a year off just for treatment without taking into consideration the other days when I am totally incapacitated. It seems that the sick and vunerable are easy targets for the DWP. I know of someone who has a girlfriend who is pregnant with their second child who has been given a brand new four bedroom house. He has stopped work as he can get £1600 in benefits a month which is more than his wages – he has no health issues! Surely these are the people that should be got back to work! Any ideas how I can stop from losing my mind???

    Comment by Steph — November 22, 2012 @ 6:33 pm

  86. Hang in there as unfortunately this is the shit system we have to put up with they want another medical is a good sign as they are considering reversing the decision in your favor

    Comment by steve — November 22, 2012 @ 9:01 pm

  87. I feel your pain!!! I suffer from autonomic system failiure which effects 8 different parts of my body.and am waiting to start treatment in london.i am also in wrag group and waiting on decision about support group.i know i’m never going to get better.probably worse as the years go by.am 35 with 2 children and have always worked.it only hit me yesterday that my prescription charges will be over £100 a month.an this realisation has depressed me even further.this is one lady who is not proud to be british!!!!

    Comment by jojo — November 22, 2012 @ 9:07 pm

  88. Have you tryed getting an exemption card I suffer from ME but also diabetic and i get a prescription charge exemption card

    Comment by steve — November 22, 2012 @ 11:23 pm

  89. No.i didnt know there was one.how do i apply for one.thanks for letting me know.that would be a big relief knowing i wouldnt have to find the money for my medication.its all new to me.up until last year the only benefit i ever claimed was child benefit.

    Comment by jojo — November 23, 2012 @ 12:27 am

  90. Ask your GP, there are certain categorys which are exempt charges ,yours may be one of them no harm in asking saves me about £300 a month

    Comment by steve — November 23, 2012 @ 1:46 am

  91. My mum is ill she suffers from very bad Osteoarthritis in her legs and hips and degenerative lumbar spinal discs, she also suffers with depression and panic attacks, she in constant chronic pain due to having both illnesses together, she cannot walk much and not unaided but when she does walk she is very slow and stops many times due the the pain and discomfort, she cannot stand unaided and for long as the pain is bad and she is weak on her legs, she has problems sitting, when she does finally manage to sit its not long before she is in so much pain, she cannot bend, dress or have a bath on her own as she cannnot do it etc.. she struggles day to day, Her Dr and Hospital consultant have both said that there is no cure and she will not get rid of these illness and they will get worse, she use to work but due to her illnesses/disabilties she cannot anymore and that was said by her GP and Hospital Consultant. She had a work assessment for ESA and got told she fit for work, even though she could not do the things they asked her, she screamed in pain, the assesor must of been blind, she help hold my mum, but the report was so made up and so many lies and conradictions it was unbelieveable , she appealed, she been waiting along time to hear when it be then she got a letter in october saying the hearing s in novemeber

    Well she had her appeal hearing on monday, it went well, she was awared enough points to pass the limited capabltiy for work and put in the support group . the appeal hearing was not a bad as we thought it be, they were friendly and listened and didnt judge, we were only in the actual hearing about just over 10 mintues, they said that they already sort of came to the decsion before hand just reading all the evidence and medical documentation that we and the CAB sent in and that they just wanted to clarify some things. so just to let people know not to give up.

    can anyone tell me how long have they waited for their money to go back up to what it should of been and for the back pay, we been told different things, and with christmas coming up, my mum could do with having her money increase to what it should be. Before ESA my mum was on income support with a sickness element on top, she then got told she be moved to esa and thats when she had her assessment in july 2011 but she didnt hear from that untill 14th october 2011 when they said she failed it, she been getting the bacis rate noe since then so thats 13 months so can anyone say when they would pay the back pay from.

    also another question, we was advised that she could be called back up for another assessment in about 3 months, but could be longer can anyone who won their appeal and then got assesed again few months later tell me if that happens can we send copy of the appeal and a letter stateing that their no change it health and that it was only a few months that appeal was won. i heard that some people say they been put in the support group for two years but thats when they passed the medical, can anyone tell me if it happens when someone wins their appeal and put in he support group, its cause my mum so much stress, she worried now that she been called up again, or will they write to say she in suppot group for 2/3 years and what date would this be from?

    sorry to be abit long

    Comment by Ange — November 23, 2012 @ 10:32 am

  92. Ange.

    I’ve always waited around seven weeks for back pay after winning an appeal.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 23, 2012 @ 1:30 pm

  93. Hi, well this is all disturbing reading.. i think i’ve just about lost faith in everything.

    I had an esa appointment coming soon, the first one.. now they’ve resent the same appt. letter saying it will be a phone interview.. what does that mean i wonder?

    Now apparently a whole hour interview is going to be done over the phone, and taking into consideration the oh so attentive help, support and direction that is coming my way according to the details on the back of the letter.
    I must admit i was laying some hope on this but it seems then it’s all just a means to get people out/off the system.
    Have i been that naive…

    I have been coming to the conclusion that there’s no help at all, not really.. just lots of promises and talk, lots of letters/correspondence back and forth to everyone just confirming to their seniors and themselves that they are ‘doing their jobs’
    When it comes down to it the real help disappears out of sight in a ‘i’m just doing my job, i’m not responsible for anything’ type attitude.

    Is there any answer left, i have no fight in me to battle against games and tricks, procedures with hidden agendas.
    I feel damaged and degraded just reading about it.

    Thanks everyone

    Comment by Anonymous — November 25, 2012 @ 9:35 am

  94. Hello Ned.

    You feel damaged and degraded ? is that not reason enough to summon up every piece of your last energy to fight these people, fight them with everything you have left, look at me, when they stuffed me over 3 years ago, I decided to muster every last ounce of willpower I had left to take these bastards with me to the grave.

    I will never give up until these pieces of scum are destroyed, join us, learn your rights, go to our forum http://www.dwpexamination.org
    where intelligence on these people is reported immediately to help us get rid of them, they so hated our forum an attempt was made to ban us from the internet by threatening the server host with a law suit.

    So we relocated our server to ICELAND where they have free speech on the internet, the British Government and their lackeys have no influence over the good folks in ICELAND because they will just tell them to go F*** themselves.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 25, 2012 @ 11:13 am

  95. Ned dont lose heart we have and all are in the same boat unfortunately dont matter what the disability or illness the cards are stacked against us but despite that many people have overcome and beat these bureaucratic arsoles who think of nothing but making money.My advise is treat them at the same game lie and put the ball in their court and say prove it.keep fighting many have and many have won.

    Comment by steve — November 25, 2012 @ 11:27 am

  96. i was placed in wrag group and have appealed(july)not heard yet,but attended jobcentre interveiw 2 weeks later and was told i didnt need to go back and would be left alone for 2yrs,aprox,he seemed to decide this after reading notes on computer.i took advice on here(thanks)and asked for esa85a as i didnt have to attend a medical.
    the above says not fit for work in the longer term,signifitent disability and then on the back in the medium term.
    it then has a list of problems not affecting me ,this has left me very confused.
    is it possible that a reconsideration could go in my favour without need for an appeal.
    i sent a recent doctors letter to join my appeal file,and have been told on phone my case hasnt been looked at yet,but still dont know how many points i scored although it also said my form is consistent with evidence.
    my husband seems to think i have little to worry about,but i feel very disheartened and feel overwelmed .
    i have been in touch with welfare rights and they said they will only help if i have a good chance of winning as they are unindated,
    i receive high dla and care,and esa ,which up to now has been paid without a break even though it changed from icapacity to esa in august.
    thanks for any advise,and sincere good luck to all in the middle of this madness.

    Comment by lindibobs — November 26, 2012 @ 1:05 am

  97. Thanks for the replies and encouragement,

    If there’s a fundamental problem it seems one has to realise that explanations, honesty and truth is going to count for very little..and that you have to play a cunning game just to avoid being cut off, and still leaving the actual provision of help/support in the balance.

    That’s where it falls apart for me, i mean to have to work against deception in order to progress, dehumanizing yourself to operate in a system of hidden faces, for me that is a quite horrible debilitating feeling.

    I don’t think i want to win as such, just to be treated fairly, openly and honestly for better or worse but these days.. it’s way too much to ask is my faith battered conclusion.

    Regards to all

    Comment by Anonymous — November 26, 2012 @ 8:05 am


    It’s possible for the DWP to reconsider in your favour, but it’s been our experience that to get in to the support group they usually force the claimant to appeal, so wait and see what happens first then make the decision.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 26, 2012 @ 9:01 am

  99. thanks for the reply,the wording confused me in the esa85a,i thought because in the longer term was mentioned ,that maybe i was being put in support group ,and dwp just had not got to my file yet to let me know.
    why do they need to make people who are ill go through all this.
    a friend told me about this site,otherwise i would not have a clue,someone in power must be able to stop this crazy mess.
    why cant real doctors,therapists and other respected nhs workers do medicals that are fair and decent and let them decide if and when a person needs to be re assesed,
    i understand somethings need to change,but we are going to have more crime and begging on the street,has david cameron no commen sense,and for that matter no understanding of what he has done,stupid man

    Comment by lindibobs — November 26, 2012 @ 1:27 pm

  100. lindibobs.

    David Cameron couldn’t give a toss about you or anyone else, so just look after yourself and do what you have to do to survive.
    Don’t forget our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org log in there and get as much help as you need.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 26, 2012 @ 2:00 pm

  101. one thing you forgot david cameron gets his DLA ok

    Comment by steve — November 26, 2012 @ 2:11 pm

  102. Hi, My wife has been placed in a WRAG by a tribunal, after original ATOS assessment gave her 0 points. after several appeals etc the tribunal has given her 15 points and placed her in the WRAG. Now this whole appeal process has taken over a year, so her money has stopped. She does not qualify for income based ESA as I work full time. I believe the only income available to her is now JSA for 6 months only.

    Now the nature of her problem means it is going to get worse (awaitjng hip replacement) is there anything to say we can’t re -apply for ESA further down the line? based on the fact her hip is worse. I take it the fact she was awarded 15 points by the tribunal means she was not fit work when the ATOS assement was made. Therefore any re application for ESA based on her hip being worse would mean she would be put in WRAG ? does this entitle her to another 12 months ESA?

    any help much appreciated

    Comment by David — November 26, 2012 @ 3:03 pm

  103. Hello David.

    If shes only entitled to contributory ESA because of your income then it ends after 365 days as you now know. I can appreciate that signing on for work is not a viable option.

    But she may be able to appeal against the tribunals decision to only grant the WRAG of ESA, if she can successfully appeal to get the support group then she will still receive ESA, because ESA on the support group does not end after 365 days but continues as before.

    Take advice from a professional organisation like welfare rights, they will tell you if they believe she has a chance, and if so they will help with an application for a statement of reasons from the appeal service, after looking at the statement of reasons they need to find an error in law, that’s the difficult part, if they can find one then they can appeal on your behalf, an appeal to the second tribunal has to be done in the correct manner, any mistakes can make it even more difficult.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 26, 2012 @ 4:46 pm

  104. I believe the tribunal decision to reverse the ATOS decision in april 12 when they said she was fit to work, to a decision to where she should have been on WRAG was correct. We don’t feel she should have been put on the support group. However since then her condition has worsened and will continue to deteriorate over time. Is it possible therefore to re apply for ESA in 6 months time and get another 12 months of ESA WRAG ? or hopefully Support group based on an examination on her condition in 6 months?

    many thanks for the help, this forum is invaluable to people in this situation. amazed to see so many people in the same boat.

    Comment by David — November 26, 2012 @ 5:36 pm

  105. Yes she can reapply for the support group provided her condition has worsened or she has a new health condition.
    So nothing to lose by having a go, pity she couldn’t challenge the last decision.

    We have a sister site David if you would like to log in there, the help you can get is free and invaluable, we are not in the business of taking money from those who don’t have it.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 26, 2012 @ 8:04 pm

  106. My recent assessment at the
    Bristol branch of ATOS meant I had to walk across two car parks fro my cab as ‘only blue badge holders’ are allowed to park outside. Although I am not on the High rate of mobility allowance my mobility is severely compromised by a deteriorated hip and compressed cartilege pressing on nerves in my spine. I then had to do it again to wait for my cab and lean against a wall in the rain. Consequently my hip flared up and I was laid up for several days, missing essential appointments etc… I have complained but doubt anything will de done. Only recently become disabled I really feel like a third class citizen and the medical added to my feeling of my pain being dismissed. Kind regards. Love the site.

    Comment by Jacky Glasgow — November 27, 2012 @ 8:22 am

  107. Hi Jacky.

    You might think nothing will be done, but every complaint that goes to ATOS is recorded, and will come back to haunt them in the future when it all builds up.
    A Dr or Nurse who works for ATOS can only have so many complaints against them before they are carpeted and talked down too, you must do better, that kind of thing etc etc.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 27, 2012 @ 10:23 am

  108. I wonder can anyone confirm if you appeal and although I was well over the time for hearing an appeal because when I was put in ESA work related I asked could I appeal they said no everyone in incapacity was bring moved over to this new benefit so there was nothing to appeal against. I believed them and it was 10 months on that I found out yes I should have appealed as there was another side to it the support side. So they told me to send the papers in I did in June this year as my benefit was due to end 1st September this year but hadn’t heard so I rang in August they insisted they hadn’t got my letter from June so asked me to send it all in again. I did recirded delivery rang them a couple of days later but they said they hadn’t got that either. I said I would ring again in a few days and I did they still said not got it but then she said hang on my colleague has just found it in a draw. It is out of appeal time but they are still going to consider it thus will take about 50days. Then the letter came through the door weeks later saying sorry you haven’t won the appeal but it was going to tribuneral. As I was looking through all my evidence they sent me I stopped in shock the letter I sent in June that they insisted they had never got they did I know because it was there stamped by them on the 16th June 2012 I was really mad about that but then I noticed the consultants letter stating I was incontinant was missing now and after ringing the tribuneral office to find they didn’t have it either I rang the DWP who said well done good spot how rude is that. I said my worry is you looked at my appeal without this she said no we didn’t and we will send it on to the appeal board that day. However I spoke to the tribuneral office now 5 weeks on and they still haven’t sent it to them so my appeal there would have been heard without it and it is obviously a major part of my appeal. But also on the web I saw that if you was having an appeal heard they have to continue to pay your benefit even if its at a reduced rate. I got nothing and since then my medical time has come round again in the claim I sent copies of everything I sent for my appeal lol which was in yhe same building and within days I got a letter to say they had put me in the right benefit ESA but now the support group. So niw I need to fight my appeal to say why have I now been put on the right benefit I’m sure they will find some stupid excuse for me being on the work related but as well came 1/9/2012 so no appeal heard and my benefit stopped . Does anyone know if you can claim compensation for the distress they cause and the hardship they caused as my benefit just stopped regardless of my appeal being heard . I would be grateful for any feedback.

    Comment by Shirley — November 28, 2012 @ 10:40 pm

  109. Shirley.

    Dear o dear, why are you listening to these bozos ? your going to have to get your act together, these people want to hurt you, they are not your friend/s, they are out to hurt you and hurt you real bad.

    You need to ask the DWP for the assessment rate, they don’t tell you that you are entitled to it by law as long as you provide them with a sicknote, you are dealing with compulsive liars and criminals here, so phone them up and remind them of that phone call way back asking for the assessment rate ? ask why it’s taken so long to be paid (Wink wink).

    Never ever, I will repeat, because you have learned a valuable lesson, NEVER EVER send these incompetent fools any original documents, they will deliberately lose them, and never ever put any trust in them again either.
    And anything they claim or say on the phone you ask for in writing as a confirmation.

    Get in touch with the CAB or your local welfare rights as soon as possible and they will help you, you can also get a wealth of help here at our sister forum http://www.dwpexamination.org they will advise where to complain for instance, because half of them on our sister site have already done it, so they know the ropes.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 29, 2012 @ 9:29 am

  110. My brother got a letter a couple of weeks ago telling him he was in wrag and would be sent a letter about going for an interview at future date.He got his eas85a report yesterday,it states he meets criteria for having limited capability for work and that work is unlikely within 2 years.Then it states FME does not indicate support group,however,is likely to meet threshold if called for exam.First,if he is unlikely to work for 2 years,why send him for interviews.Second,when it states if he was called for an exam,does that mean he would get put on support group.I cant work this out for him.M.

    Comment by k.hamilton — November 29, 2012 @ 12:47 pm

  111. Because your either in the support group or your not, if not then it’s the WRAG, and everyone in the WRAG has to attend interviews, if called by a work focused advisor, to help get them back in to work.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 29, 2012 @ 9:17 pm

  112. Hi there, great site thanks. Nice political analysis too. Can you help me? I am due to go for a total knee replacement in a weeks time and have no idea of what I can claim to support me through this period. Many thanks. Jules.

    Comment by Jules — December 1, 2012 @ 12:47 pm

  113. You can claim for Employment and support allowance Jules. Just get the form from the DWP and apply.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 2, 2012 @ 1:33 am

  114. I had my assesment in Nov 2011 where I was awarded the obligatory zero points. This was after being on IB
    I appealed and in May 2012 I won but it took until July before they started paying the WRAG.
    Last month I returned my medical questionaire because my WRAG was running out in which I pulled no punches and told them exactly what I thought of the system.
    I have now been placed in the support group at the rate of £105.05 per week but according to my local housing benefit they list Enhanced
    disability premium at the rate of £14.80 per week making a total of £119.85
    who is right. Thanks for any help you can provide.

    £119.85 per week.

    Comment by Mr.Kris Burrows — December 2, 2012 @ 9:53 am

  115. If you are in the Support Group and receive Income Based ESA you will get the extra £14.80 Enhanced Disability Premium. You will not get it if you receive Contribution Based ESA.

    Comment by David — December 2, 2012 @ 10:05 am

  116. Dear David.

    Thanks for your reply
    Good luck for the future and Merry Christmas.

    Comment by Mr.Kris Burrows — December 2, 2012 @ 10:26 am

  117. Your sister forum doesnt seem to be working today have tried all day to access it

    Comment by angiep — December 2, 2012 @ 6:38 pm

  118. Hi Angie.

    We are in the process of a transfer to a bigger server Angie, I can’t get on either, so we need to have some patience..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 2, 2012 @ 6:54 pm

  119. Hi.
    As I stated in earlier enquiry I was placed in the Support group as of 14 Nov 2012.
    All the letter says is that I must report any changes in cicumstances.
    Any idea what may happen next?
    I’m 57 years old.
    Thanks for your help, it’s been invaluable.

    Comment by Mr.Kris Burrows — December 3, 2012 @ 9:17 am

  120. You should be back paid rom when your claim started then paid monthly and should leave you alone for at least 2 years when you may be reviewed again

    Comment by steve — December 3, 2012 @ 9:30 am

  121. Hello Kris.

    Report a change of circumstances is self explanatory so do you mean can they call you for an assessment anytime ? the answer is yes, you can receive a letter from ATOS anytime they wish to assess your fitness to work.
    The DWP used to write letters saying you are on such and such a benefit for LIFE, they don’t write that anymore, they substituted the word LIFE for INDEFINITE which can mean anything, it can mean next week or five years, whatever they decide it means.

    There’s a lot of deluded people out there waving bits of paper around saying I’m on sickness benefit for life they can’t touch me !!
    Those people are getting called in one by one, and it must be one hell of a shock to be told a week or two after their assessment that they have been miraculously cured and are now fit for work..

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 3, 2012 @ 9:30 am

  122. I had brain hem in march 2012 and got ssp then had to leave work cause I had to recover its been an uphill battle mentally and phically since as I only worked part time and never payed enough in ni I couldn’t get dole and my wife had to keep me. My doctor then put me off sick again due to brain hem as I wasn’t doing good and I put in for esa now my wife brings home £950 per month now we have to pay morgage and other bills out of that and I’m waiting to see if I can get esa with my wifes 21 hours per week job hope they give me something

    Comment by barry — December 3, 2012 @ 4:05 pm

  123. Should be entitled to ESA barry, even if it’s contributory related ESA which lasts for 365 days.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 3, 2012 @ 4:41 pm

  124. As you have not paid enough NI its unlikely you will get contributory based ESA so it will probabley
    be income based you may be able to get this for 365 days only but it does depend on the household income good luck

    Comment by steve — December 3, 2012 @ 5:03 pm

  125. So guys after a four month wait on decision to be referred from wrag group to support group, suprise suprise i now have to attend another medical.my contribution based esa ends on the 6th of this month.boxin gloves at the ready because i’m not going down without a fight!!!.will keep u updated with how i get on.wish me luck : /

    Comment by jojo — December 3, 2012 @ 7:21 pm

  126. Had a call today from ingus im on wr esa told them the first time i dont leave the house due to anxity problems i have first thing IT said was i know you dont go out but i ned you to atend a interview i reminded IT what IT said to me dont know what to do i was told i would only have phone interveiws at first any help please

    Comment by rh — December 3, 2012 @ 9:01 pm

  127. I had my WCA on 5th November 2012. I rang the DWP today, as it is 4 weeks and I’ve not heard a thing. My papers were posted on the 24th November 2012 so they say, but as I haven’t received them they are sending it all out again today with an appeal form I requested. I have passed the medical and now placed in the WRAG again. I was put in this December 2011 when I won my ESA appeal. I will be appealing against this decision as I feel I should be in the support group. I have already won an ESA and DLA tribunal in the past year. I suffer with ME, anxiety and depression. Can anybody tell me what to put on the appeal form for my best chances of being placed in the support group? Thank you!

    Comment by Lulu — December 3, 2012 @ 9:25 pm

  128. Good luck jojo…He He.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 4, 2012 @ 12:25 am

  129. Hi – I am a 57 year old woman who has just been diagnosed with osteoporosis due to a fall 1 year ago when I broke my leg. I have had chronic back problems for the last 14 years (now we know why) I was on Incapacity benefit because of my pain and also my depression which at the moment is quite bad. I went for an assessment in September to change me from IB to ESA but unfortunately I got the dreaded letter saying that I had to go back to work. I was assessed that I was fit to go back to work despite being on 2 crutches and being unable to pick anything from the floor or get up on the medical couch. I have appealed this decision and am waiting the result. Meanwhile my GP has said that he will keep giving me sick notes for as long as I need them. I also applied for DLA and got knocked back with that too. When reading their report I found out that they had gone to the assessor for my ESA and taken their decision to make up their minds. I don’t know what to do next I am beginning to feel very anxious and feel that my depression is coming back.
    Can you give me any advice?

    Comment by cat — December 4, 2012 @ 12:11 pm

  130. Hello Cat.

    Your doing the right thing, you are appealing, judging by the health problems you’ve described you are going to win the appeal, also appeal for DLA, don’t let the DWP away with anything, show no weakness and show no quarter, because they will show you none believe me.
    And don’t forget to ask for the assessment rate while you wait for the appeal to be heard, don’t ask ? you don’t get.


    Comment by dwpexamination — December 4, 2012 @ 2:09 pm

  131. hi I don’t understand what the assessment rate is and I really could do with the extra money as my money has been cut from £105 to £72 a week

    Comment by cat — December 4, 2012 @ 3:28 pm

  132. You are receiving the assessment rate then, it’s £71 a week.
    The assessment rate is ESA without the working component part, when you win your appeal you will get all that back in to your account.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 4, 2012 @ 8:20 pm

  133. In April my esa was stopped because I had received it for a year. I admit I was an idiot for not apealling at the time,but my thought process is not always optimal.At the the time I was told by dwp the only benefit I could apply for. after a phone call.was jobseekers. I decided a couple of months ago to lie about my health and apply for this.I have since been tol by my GP, my Councellor and at the jobcentre that I should be getting esa Looking at the form for esa it seems that I cannot apply for income based because my wife works 30 hours a week and am not entitled to contributary based because I have already received it for a year.Is there any way I can now claim it considering the month allowed for appeal is long gone.

    Comment by paul hurrell — December 5, 2012 @ 5:18 pm

  134. i take it your esa was stopped after 365 days was contributory based as you say you cannot claim income based be3cuase i presume your wife works more than 24 hrs a week the same will apply for job seekers allowance so you have been misinformed you cannot claim that the only benefit you may get is your wife claiming tax credit this will depend again on hours worked and income received as it based on min wage and if she works more than 24 hrs this is also unlikely.the only way around this is to inform DWP that your condition has worsened and you now wish to be placed in the support group be prepared for a long wait and a long drawn out battle good luck

    Comment by stevenlumley5915 — December 5, 2012 @ 5:31 pm

  135. Hi everyone,
    I suffer from severe chronic back pain. I’ve had 3 lots of major surgery and am now on crutches and can barely do anything. I worked all the way from 1987-2010 when I was finally told its unlikely I will get any better and any more surgery is pointless. I claimed IB and then was put on ESA and placed in WRAG. I don’t have a clue about benefits. When my ESA was stopped in April for the new 365 day rule I was already in the appeal process as advised by my Consultant. Anyway won my appeal on 4th October this year. Made several calls and a complaint but there’s no record of a complaint only that I rang for update. Today I actually broke down as I’ve been told there’s no record of me winning the appeal even though I’ve got the letters to prove it and they are referring me back to medical services which I’m presuming is ATOS.Despite many calls today they are not willing to see me face to face or accept the letters at job centre plus and want them posted. I have done this before and they said they have never received it. I honestly don’t know who to complain to as no one seems to take responsibility everytime I ring I get through to a call centre and passed on from 1 person the next. I’d really be grateful if someone can advise me on how to complain and to who. I was so glad when my appeal was allowed and that was only the beginning of a nightmare which will not end happily.

    Comment by Ash — December 5, 2012 @ 6:25 pm

  136. I would go to CAB with this one and use one of there solicitors if you have paperwork winning an appeal as they are now breaking the law

    Comment by stevenlumley5915 — December 5, 2012 @ 7:29 pm

  137. I wouldn’t send these jokers the original letters either, send copies, originals seem to disappear on the way to the DWP office.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 5, 2012 @ 7:34 pm

  138. The only problem with CAB is they can’t see me till after Xmas . Hoping to see my MP tomorrow if that approach doesn’t work will have to think of something else. What annoys me is if you’ve worked all your life and your limited to 365 days just doesn’t make sense.

    Comment by Ash — December 5, 2012 @ 7:50 pm

  139. Hello Ash.

    It makes perfect sense once you understand they want to take and take and take, and so any excuse to limit your money is the view they take, some people have said they would never vote Tory again, well fat lot of good that is isn’t it ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 6, 2012 @ 7:23 am

  140. I’ve never voted for them and never will. Rang again today and was asked to bring papers to Jobcentre, surprise surprise was asked to ring ESA help line in the free phone at the centre. Explained to them have tried that route you can see how much difficulty I’m in. Was told need to make appointment. I just walked back out. It’s a joke. I can honestly say if I ever got a chance I’d slap Cameron and clegg in the face. Amazes me the idiots get a salary then all expenses paid for like many more people like myself that are no longer able to work anymore due to disability. I seriously wonder why I ever worked

    Comment by Ash — December 6, 2012 @ 11:18 am

  141. Hi, I have been put into The Work Programme which i guess must be a work related support group for ESA, i had an interview at the job centre on tuesday and was told that there was no pressure for me to go back to work. This was for 2 years. When i asked what happens at the end of the 2 years they said they didn’t know as the scheme hasn’t run that far yet.
    I had a breakdown due to pressure and stress from working a 70+ hour week in my job. I’ve since then gone into a deep depression. I have 500mg of anti-depressants a day. Which means i can’t drive far or operate machinery. I can’t deal with loud noises, people raising their voices or even the phone ringing. I’m not sure what sort of job they think they are going to get me as soon as i start to get stressed my hands shake so badly that i can’t hold anything.
    My point for posting is after reading people’s posts about 1 year, did the job centre lie to me? (as if they would!!!!!!!! )
    Any idea if this work programme is the same as a work related support group?
    Also just had a letter stating that if i dont’ turn up for any of the appointments they will deduct £14 a week from my benefits. Which dropped when i got moved on to ESA from Incapitity benefit. My income support is a joke as i get 10p a week.
    Sorry if i rambled on a bit.

    Comment by Lyn — December 6, 2012 @ 3:54 pm

  142. i claim e s a (wrag group) i have ptsd, Psychosis, also Symphysis Pubis Dysfunction i appeled to get in the support group because my claim did not take in to account the mental health problems i have well my case went to tribunal but was aburned for menical evidence so now i am still waiting the out come of my claim im still claiming esa but on the wrag group rate why do they make it so hard for people with mental health

    Comment by kaide — December 6, 2012 @ 5:42 pm

  143. Sounds like your on the work related activity group Lyn, which requires compulsory attendance at any work focused interviews the DWP demand you attend.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 6, 2012 @ 6:59 pm

  144. I don’t know Kaide, they make it hard for everyone, even the dying.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 6, 2012 @ 7:06 pm

  145. These weasel’s in expensive suit’s(Tories, lib and labour),have given the green light to these Nazi’s at A.T.O.S to systematically dispose of you and your family,and ensure that benifets will be non existant in a couple of generations.They will show no mercy to the poor working classes.
    I suppose “they might let us eat cake”?.

    Comment by Maxi — December 7, 2012 @ 2:19 am

  146. Sorry benefits.

    Comment by Maxi — December 7, 2012 @ 2:21 am

  147. They had the green light years ago Maxi, I was one of the first people in the whole of Britain that saw that green light, I couldn’t believe what I was seeing, but the evidence was as clear as day, and I had to take the veil from my eyes and stop deluding myself and come to the only conclusion that it was really true.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 7, 2012 @ 8:40 am

  148. Could anyone please advise me…….I have been in the support group for ESA due to having cancer and recently had a medical assessment which the results have returned a verdict of being able to return to work as It was noted I was able to take off and put on my coat without much difficulty! I am currently waiting to see specialists regarding having lymphodema in my chest and armpit area and also find fatigue horrendous as I am not sleeping due to pain and have very little stamina. They have told me that I received 0 points and the ESA has now ceased. Should I not be placed into the WRAG at least instead of been dismissed completely…….should I appeal and if so who would be able to help me with the appeal process.

    Comment by Sue — December 9, 2012 @ 7:58 pm

  149. Sue you can and should appeal, it’s all a con to force you to appeal, so you might as well get started as soon as possible.
    All information you need to appeal can be found here at our sister site, just think up a username and log in to http://www.dwpexamination.org

    It’s a free site, totally secure and is based in Iceland where free speech is practiced. ATOS know about it and would love to shut it down, they tried but can’t touch it…lol.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 10, 2012 @ 12:09 am

  150. Im so glad that Im not alone in this, I thought it was just me who they are taking the p1ss out of :-(
    Can anyone tell me what happens if I don attend the work related interviews? As I am too ill to attend I have told them but they just keep sending me letter! They said my beenfits will be affected, I said well that is what will have to happen as Im too ill to go! Will they take them all away or just a bit of it?
    I have a appeal going on now! The people I have spoke to including my doctors & hospital have said they are digusted and sickened by what has happened and that they are just trying to make anyone work no matter how ill they are :-(

    Comment by meg — December 10, 2012 @ 7:08 pm

  151. Hello Meg.

    If you refuse to attend a work focused interview the DWP have the power to sanction part of your benefits.
    You in turn can appeal their decision.
    Log in to our sister site Meg http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 10, 2012 @ 9:03 pm

  152. hya i had my medical in september and ive heard nothing is this bad news im confused

    Comment by carrie — December 11, 2012 @ 5:36 pm

  153. had mine in may my friend and still waiting 12 months wait is not uncommon

    Comment by stevenlumley5915 — December 11, 2012 @ 5:59 pm

  154. So I was put into WRAG and the woman was so horrible I broke down into tears outside the office, told them I felt suicidal and put in a complaint. I was put in to the other group (SG) and really relieved that they had decided I was unfit for work. Depression, arthritis, incontinence, lots of other issues that go with these. Then I recieved a questionnaire Work Capability Assessment, like a fool I filled it in thinking well I have already been signed to SG this is just routine. Then I went for a medical you guessed it, she lied, s he didn’t listen they probably thought I exaggerated. I got 0 points I went from a Incapacity Benefit to WRAG to SG and now nothing. I am completely fit for work, the doctor/ATOS must have waved a magic wand and cured me. Strange I am in as much pain and discomfort and still depressed. Perhaps its all in my head, hmmm but I am perfectly sane. I can walk, move “even in a wheelchair the form said” well I don’t have a wheelchair.
    So I contacted the DSS DWP and they said well your not entitled to any benefit you can apply for a crisis loan. I have written a letter of reconsideration and asked them for appeal papers. We shall see what we shall see.
    Wish I had never filled in that form should have stuck to the letter like glue. If someone sends you a letter saying you have been moved from WRAG to SG and then you get forms and medical requests, ask them, remind them about the letter they sent you.

    Not sure what to do now, the wait is on to see if I get paid on Monday, does ramen only come in plain?

    Comment by rowanessque — December 12, 2012 @ 4:57 pm

  155. rowanesque.

    Were you on income related ESA ? or Contributory ESA ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 12, 2012 @ 9:34 pm

  156. my wife had been on incapacity benefit since1996, went for atos assessment sept 2011 placed on wrag later went for interview at job centre was told she had diagnosed severe case [mental prob] and would not be required to attend any more interviews, heard nothing for a year did not realise money would cease, when this happened realised she should have been put in [s g] been told by decision maker [after sending recent evidence of her claim and letter etc] that because a change in her condition [which there has not been] she must fill in atos form for another medical which was sent off 06/11/12, we have been told to wait when phoning atos to enquire if they have recieved form, surely this wrag was a mistake since we were told she was a severe case and we heard nothing from j c for a year never understood that money would stop, should i ask for esa85 report or is it to late for that i work full time but still struggling without her benefit. thanks.

    Comment by haze — December 17, 2012 @ 1:14 pm

  157. Hello Haze.

    Your wife was on contributory ESA and it stops after 365 days if she was on the work related group, and that’s the reason they placed here in the WRAG, it doesn’t apply if she was in the support group, so she should have appealed against their decision to place her in the work related at the time.
    This Government don’t exactly advertise to all and sundry what they are up too, that’s why Blogs like this and our sister forum http://www.dwpexamination.org were set up to try and inform people of their rights, people think the DWP will take care of that for them…not so, the DWP are your/our enemy, they are not your/our friend/s, they want to hurt you and get you of benefits to improve their figures and don’t care about the consequences.
    So she isn’t receiving any money now because of the 365 day rule, and has to go for another assessment to be eligible for national insurance contributions ? what a joke that is eh..?.
    Or depending on how much you earn and how much you have saved will determine whether she can claim for income related ESA, so get that checked out with the local welfare rights or the CAB and see if she is eligible for income related ESA.
    If you earn £149 or more or have 16,000 pounds in the bank then she will not be eligible for income related ESA.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 17, 2012 @ 1:38 pm

  158. is she still eligible for support group, should i ask for esa 85 report done in sept 2011 and then query why she was not put in support group then.thanks for your reply.

    Comment by haze — December 17, 2012 @ 2:00 pm

  159. Haze.

    Sept 2011 to Sept 2012 is a year, and since her money has stopped and she hasn’t appealed then it looks as if she’s far to late.
    That’s why I am saying she should try and see if she is eligible for income related ESA, there is certain criteria, and I don’t know your/her financial circumstances so that is why I am suggesting she contacts welfare rights or the CAB with the relevant paperwork, they will be able to advise if she can claim income related ESA after having a look at her personal situation.
    And also advise if it’s possible to still apply for the support group after the next assessment, I believe she could, but it will almost certainly be an appeal.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 17, 2012 @ 3:20 pm

  160. thank you very much for your help in this matter much appreciated.

    Comment by haze — December 17, 2012 @ 3:40 pm

  161. well guys had my medical today,as ive appealled to be moved from wrag to support group.even though since my last medical,i now have zero mobility,use a walking stick,have to have help catherterising to go the toilet and also have a full time carer.and plus being sent from liverpool ( were i live ) to london for specialist treatment,wasnt surprised at all to be treated like a no good scrounger.the questions i was asked were ridiculous. ” what do you do all day”.” what television programmes do you watch”.i sat opened mouthed then proceeded to burst out laughing an asked what the hell that had to do with my health.no doubt the doctor will get his knickers in a twist and declare me fit for work! seriously thinking about starting a petition,and knocking at number 10.i was sat in a room full of people smelling of booze and shaking.an thought what the hell am i doing here.i’ve paid my taxes all my working life,i didnt get ill through self infliction,i cant be cured.if you went in these places with your head hanging off they would still declare you fit for work.rant over!!!! feel much better for getting that off my chest.will keep you updated on decision.

    Comment by Anonymous — December 18, 2012 @ 5:14 pm

  162. Hello Anonymous.

    The questions are just unbelievable and have no relevance to whether you are ill or fit for work or what.
    Please keep us updated on their decision, fingers crossed and hope it’s good luck..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 18, 2012 @ 5:41 pm

  163. Hi – I have been awarded ESA and placed in the support group. Trouble is, I haven’ a clue what type of ESA I’m receiving, This is the position – I receive a note attached to the booklet ESA3 confirming that I have been placed in ESA Support Group, and suggests that I may qualify for Income Related ESA. I fill this in and return it. I then receive a letter saying my benefit is changing to ESA and replaces my Incapacity benefit. This letter confirms that I am entitled to contribution-based ESA, which brings me up to date. Then I receive a booklet suggesting that I could be entitled to help towards my housing cost – mortgage interest. I fill this in and return it to my lender, who then completes their part and returns it back to DWP. A couple of weeks later I receive another letter confirming that a change in my ESA rate payable. The only addition to how it had been worked out is extra money towards housing costs. It doesn’t say when this will be paid to my lender, but I presume at some point it wil?. Since I have received such an award, does this mean that I am on Income-Related ESA or not. I don’t have any savings above the £6,000 allowed. They never seem to tell you anything in plain english. I get some help towards my Council Tax, but I would have thought that I shouldn’t be paying any rates if I’m on income-relates ESA. So I must presume that I am receiving contibution based ESA, but receive help towards my housing costs.So bloody confusing it all is and when you are ill it just makes matters much wosre.

    Comment by Bob Martin — December 19, 2012 @ 1:49 pm

  164. Hi Bob.

    Your right it is confusing, and income related is where you want to be, because contributory ESA can end at the next assessment.
    There’s one sure fire way of finding out, you can write the DWP a letter and ask them point blank, can you confirm whether I’m in receipt of income related ESA or not ?.
    And wait and see what they say..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 19, 2012 @ 3:13 pm

  165. hi, i really concerned now having read the total of comments that have been added, i had a heart attack in 2005, which caused significant damage to the left side of my heart, also i have now been diagnosed with degenerative arthritis in my right foot, atos did send out a medical form which i sent back, following this they said they did not need to see me for a medical and my case was sent of to a decision maker. Today i was informed that i have been placed in the wrag category and will be reassessed in Jan 2014, any suggestions as this is causing major anxiety problems as i have no idea how to follow up on this decision, Thankyou

    Comment by anonymous — December 19, 2012 @ 6:56 pm

  166. Hello Anonymous.

    You can only decide if you think you should be in the support group or not ? if yes then you would have to appeal against their decision to place you in the work related activity group.
    If you decide to appeal then you can get help here http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 20, 2012 @ 12:07 am

  167. After my post on the 6th of Dec, i’ve been given a date to go to start my work related stuff which is in Jan. Today i get a new form from Atos to fill out. This is a limited capability for work questionaire. Will filling this out cause my benefits to be stopped or some of the money stopped? I’m totally confused as to why i have to fill this out. the letter that came with it reads as if i haven’t filled a form out yet and explains that my incapacity benefit will be transfered to ESA. I’ve already been changed to ESA.

    Comment by Lyn — December 20, 2012 @ 9:43 pm

  168. Hello Lyn.

    They want to see if they can reassess you again, so fill it in as if it was your worst day.
    It’s the same deal every time we fill in an ESA50 Questionnaire. And it’s an ever ending merry go round.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 21, 2012 @ 8:11 am

  169. Thank you, i will do and i’ll keep you updated.

    Comment by lyn — December 21, 2012 @ 1:31 pm

  170. Cheers Lyn.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 21, 2012 @ 4:10 pm

  171. Hello there

    I really need someone help I filled out the esa50 form a requested on it that atos and the dwp must not call me as I suffer from extreme anxiety,Depression,ocd,unstable personally disorder,Paranoid and everything was to be carried out via letter .I also had supporting medical evidence from my gp and mental health team to request for a home visit because of going out as I am an agoraphobic.Atos keep calling me on witheld or unknown phone numbers and they are putting me in a state of pure panic not because I have done anything wrong but because they are actually making me worse,I have tried to commit suicide a few times but I have my carer with me 24/7 and he constantly watches over me.

    I remember crying in my back garden as they have given me no choice but to hang myself.My partner was holding me very closely at the time saying to me this is not the way to do it SOLVE IT. HE WAS KEEPING ME CALM AS i WAS hysterical.Because they have put so much stress on us.

    My partner is extremely angry as they keep hounding me I have made the choice now not to pick up to witheld numbers because i know it will be them and I cannot be doing with the panic attacks and fits of crying on the phone my blood pressure is extremely high and caused me to have a nose bleed on the phone when they announced it was them calling .

    I have written to my local Mp the prime minster,Nick Clegg and Ed Milband as a last resort but naughty Atos ARE being very sly and say they have spoken to them all when I have written proof that they have made no contact with them.

    I have also written complaint letters to Income support and Atos themselves.I was wondering could I be doing anything else I really would just like them off my backs as life is very stressful as it is

    and could anyone give me any pointers or advice on what to expect next atos have comfrimed they received my questionnaire at the start of the month .

    I am determined to break this form of mental and physical torture .Even if it Kills me

    Comment by Raymond — December 22, 2012 @ 9:32 am

  172. Hello Raymond.

    The purpose of the ESA50 Questionnaire – as you will know – is to see if in their opinion you should have a functional assessment to assess your entitlement to benefits.
    And the reason for the phone calls from ATOS is to offer an assessment date, if they can’t arrange this by phone then they will write to you with a confirmation date, sometimes they write to explain you do not have to attend an assessment at this time, but more often than not it’s an assessment date.

    If you get an assessment date then you can request a home visit due to your illness, but you will need to persuade either the hospital or your GP to confirm this in writing, usually a fax sent to ATOS.

    You can also request a recording of your assessment, and this will delay the assessment date for a few weeks until they can arrange it, other than that there’s not a lot else we can do.

    You can go to our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org and on their you will find a template (amongst other things) on how to ask ATOS for a recorded assessment.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 22, 2012 @ 10:03 am

  173. Hello there Dwp examination

    Thank you for your response Its very stressful and to make matters worse Christmas is upon us and everything is closed its making me very worried indeed.I have filled in the esa 50 sent it to atos with support evidence and to copies to income support(I have kept copies too).

    The phone calls are making me very ill and I have asked the mobile phone company I am with to block all the calls from them I have also submitted to ofcom the manner in which the calls are as they are often held on withheld numbers or unknown.I do not like giving out information to people that I cannot identify.

    I have already submitted by request in my esa50 by my gp of home vist and my mental health team have too .I have asked everyone my mental health team included to keep copies of there letters in case Atos LOSE the letters .

    I have visited your sister site and I am just finishing up letters of requesting a recording to be done.Is there any information or laws as I feel clearly this is a breach on humans rights.

    I am currently in talks with cab,the prime minster (I am not holding my breathe)Nick Clegg and ed Milband.As well as my local mp at the nature of Atos’s witch hunt

    If anyone has anything to add I would be very interested to here any stories etc.I am also considering taking my story to the papers -As i am sick of there bully tactics of late life is very stressful to sick people and to get anything in life I feel its a constant battle.

    I hope you can all excuse the typos but I have been reading all the stories of peoples struggle with atos and they are making me very angry indeed.

    Comment by Raymond — December 22, 2012 @ 12:21 pm

  174. Hello Raymond.

    The phone calls usually stop after you receive the written confirmation regarding your assessment date, bar one call, usually to ask if you have received it and are you going to attend etc.
    The reason they give that last call is because they have found in the past that people have been telling them they didn’t receive a written confirmation date and therefore didn’t turn up to keep the appointment.
    Whether ATOS sent one or didn’t send one is basically irrelevant, but ATOS employ people who are numbed to any kind of pain they inflict to sit all day phoning folk and cheekily – in some cases – demand they attend or else.
    An attendance for an assessment – either to them or from them – is mandatory to receive sickness benefits, there’s no way round that one for us, sooner or later we will all be assessed, I’ve had five assessments personally since February 2009, and as soon as I win an appeal and they give me written notice that I’m entitled to ESA, I’ve found the whole rigmarole starts again immediately. even if the tribunal panel recommend that I’ve not to be assessed for two years, they don’t take a blind bit of notice, they still assess me.

    So you can see, ATOS follow no laws, no rules, no regulations, where ATOS rides hell follows, so as far as I’m concerned the kid gloves have came of years ago, and every dirty trick in the book is fair game as far as I’m concerned.
    I will follow no rules, laws regulations either, whatever suits me is how I will play it, remember I didn’t start this nonsense, – I played by the rules back then, like the original MR nice guy – they started it, so one day I woke up and decided…no more MR nice guy..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 22, 2012 @ 1:38 pm

  175. could not agree more they made the rules but dont want to abide by them so when they say can you do this …. the answer in NO and now down to you to prove that i can

    Comment by steve — December 22, 2012 @ 6:10 pm

  176. Hi, i was previously on Incapacity from 1997 until January of this year where i was informed i had been put on the ESA WRAG contribution based. I found out that it is due to end on January 5th 2013, i have had no letter informing me of this, i found out by chance about the 365 days. I attended 2 appointments with my Personal Adviser but the rest were done over the phone as she considered me to be too ill to attend. On my last appointment with her she showed me her computer screen which showed all my illnesses then showed me the screen of the DWP, it was totally different, all theirs showed was that i suffered depression, i just cannot believe this as i was originally put on Incapacity because i have widespread osteoarthritis, Cervical Sponylosis, chronic depression, and have attended numerous medicals with them. My personal adviser agreed she thinks that im not fit for work but i was told she cant do anything about it i have to contact DWP, what a stupid process as she said the DWP can see her screen and she can see theirs. My health has deteriorated, i have obtained copies of recent x rays have a letter from mental Health team detailing my illness and also stating i am at serious chance of having a major mental breakdown if i am requested to find work. I am now not sure what to do as i am unfit for work, also told i cant apply for JSA as i have used my pot of money, i wouldnt do that anyway as im too ill, i rarely leave the house these days, can anyone please advise me as to what i can do, many thanks Donna

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — December 23, 2012 @ 12:58 pm

  177. Dear all.
    The 1% increase in benefits announced by that strange man earlier this month, does the same apply to the support group.

    Comment by Mr.Kris Burrows — December 23, 2012 @ 2:10 pm

  178. Hi Kris.

    Yes..all benefits.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 23, 2012 @ 2:29 pm

  179. Hello Donna.

    I’m surprised that no one has told you about the 365 days rule, and even more surprised that no one has told you to appeal to get in to the support group of ESA because on the support group the 365 days rule does not apply.
    So contact your local welfare rights or CAB ask for help and appeal as soon as possible.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 23, 2012 @ 2:33 pm

  180. hi chris here. i have had my income based esa stopped by a tribunal here in shropshire. i was told by letter the friday before christmas. i suffer from chronic back pain daily, chronic lymphodema and reaccuring infection in my right leg and also pain in both knees. i have had this condition for some time, and was the basic reason why i was dismissed from my last job. i am very upset and suffering from stress and depression as a result of the long term effects of my illness, and also struggeling on £71 a week, which was paid fortnightly. this was the esa payment the dwp and tribunal stopped. i am in pieces over this as the timing was very bad, being told just before christmas. i have a house with a local housing trust, its a bungalow. i have all the bills to take care of, and i cannot pay any of them. i also have no money for food. they have effectivly taken away my income, in ignorance of my severe medical condition. the dwp have regular doctors notes from me for 3 month periods detailing my medical condition. they know what i suffer from, yet the atos assesment back in march 2012 results were used against me for the tribunal in december 2012. my medical has gotten worse and the situation is drastic and i have no idea what benefits i am entitled to or what money i can get until this rotten mess is sorted out. does anyone have any idea what i can do ? i am aware of the waiting period for re applying for esa, i jsut dont know what to do. please help. thank you.

    Comment by chris whitney — December 26, 2012 @ 2:56 pm

  181. Hello there you could apply for a crisis loan food food or a discretionary payment to help cover the costs of housing benefit.There may also be a local food bank close to you you would need to contact you local social services for this however

    Comment by Raymond — December 26, 2012 @ 4:44 pm

  182. Its a terrible feeling and i bet you feel so helpless with the decisions of these nameless and faceless Nazi helpers. Just remember what happened to the “let them eat cake brigade in France” and be assured that all who are taking part in this cleansing of the poor and sick in this country will be held to task over their actions, and i can assure you that the”i was only following orders” is not going to be accepted.We will have our day/s.

    Comment by Maxi — December 26, 2012 @ 7:43 pm

  183. Hello Chris.

    As you know you can re-apply for ESA because more than six months have passed since the date the decision maker informed you that you were fit for work, and since you meet the other requirement which is your health condition has worsened then actually re-applying is not going to be a problem.
    So to re-apply for ESA you need to contact the DWP and tell them you wish to apply for ESA, they will send the necessary forms then you fill them in and the whole rigmarole starts again.
    Meanwhile for money ? as far as I can see the only option available is to apply for a loan until they grant you ESA again.

    What people don’t understand is that the DWP use this period as your moment of weakness, this is the time when if the claimant is going to crack then it will be now, and they want you to crack believe me, they love it when people come to them on their hands and knees begging for help, and they can sit back on their chair/s like some kind of Gestapo officer and grind their finger nails with a nail sharpener blow the dross off and say well you should have done what we told you and just signed on, why are you being difficult ? we know you are fit for work, all this pain can stop immediately so why dont you just accept we are right and you are wrong ?.
    But their persecution is only temporary though, and once it’s over and ESA is granted that period of weakness has expired.

    So somehow you have to find a way to get through it, everyone has there own way to cope, my way was to see it coming and be prepared, other people borrow from a friend and pay it back, others just starve until they get through it, but one thing is clear though, once you do get through it you will learn and understand what your future is, and take action before and not after the event.
    Getting help from welfare rights or the CAB would be in your own best interests too.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 27, 2012 @ 11:36 am

  184. i am waiting for a date for a tribunal i have been put in the work related activity group even though i got through my atos assessment i have mental health problems and agrophobia i wont go out on my own anywere or travel on public transport because of travel sickness problems but noone believes me a man in a car has watched me near my village for three months as if i am a liar

    Comment by janice foster — December 30, 2012 @ 4:35 pm

  185. Hi Janice.

    If you can’t go out on your own then this man in the car has a long long wait for nothing..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 30, 2012 @ 9:40 pm

  186. I am 16 years years old and know of this scam. My father was unknowingly put in the wrag group after an assessment he didn’t know he had! My dad was NOT told he was being assessed, was NOT told he was in the work related group and was NOT told he would only get paid for 12 months so it was a very nasty shock when we had that letter through the door saying we would not get our £400 a month, we are a very low income family and are barely able to pay bills and eat. Now obviously because we were not even informed about the wrag decision, our case has to go before a judge to decide whether we can even appeal! Despite our gp and my dads psychologist both saying he is unfit for any work. This has torn my family apart, my mum now has crippling anxiety and depression which has resulted in physical illnesses as well so she cant work for now either. Meaning at 16 years old I have to go to school and try and get my alevels plus go out to work and contribute all my wages to keep us in a house. My dad is unable to work and we relied on that money, dwp clearly don’t care about wrecking families.

    Comment by Josie Phillips — December 31, 2012 @ 3:26 am

  187. Hello Josie.

    I’m very sorry to hear that your having these troubles, it’s an absolute disgrace what this Government are doing, aided and abetted by their partners in crime the DWP and ATOS, it’s just downright criminal, I’ve tried my best over the last three years to warn everyone what is happening and what will happen.

    Sometimes I feel like giving up.

    And it’s probably all because your mum earns (or did earn) over £149 per week, that’s our Governments incentive to get people back in to work, not increase wages or help people in any way, but take what money they have away from them to force them in to work or starve, and it’s not just your Dad this is happening to, this is happening all over Britain.

    I hope your dad is getting some kind of help from the local welfare rights or CAB, it may be possible to apply for income related ESA especially now that your Mum is not working through illness, and they can advise your Dad.

    To be eligible for income related ESA, the family income has to be below a certain level, then your Dad can qualify, check it out Josie with the CAB or Welfare rights as quick as you can on behalf of your Dad.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 31, 2012 @ 11:36 am

  188. I can feel your pain, i was also put in WRAG group, i just thought it was a group where they keep an eye on you, to ensure you are too ill to go to work, how wrong i was. I too was never told about the 365 day clause, and although my benefit is due to stop on 5th January i have never had a letter telling me this, i found out quite by chance. I really dont know what planet these people are on, by removing my benefit they are pushing us into financial hardship. Over the years i have seen numerous doctors employed by them, and each one has declared i am unfit for work, so according to these idiots i have had a miraculous recovery!! I fell top to bottom of stairs in 1991 and the result of this is chronic oseoarthritis, chronic depression and various other problems, i have been under the care of chronic pain clinic on and off for years, also orthopaedic consultant, and mental health unit, so how the hell do they come to the conclusion i am fit for work. Im not sure where to turn now, as in my previous post the DWP have based all this on incomplete evidence, they have based it all on me having depression. when infact its the arthritis that has been my main illness, all the forms they have sent me have full details of my arthritis and consultants letters etc, but they have conveniently left all this off.
    Try and stay strong, i know how hard it is as i spend hours crying, but we have to fight them somehow. What i would like to know is can i lodge a complaint as they have failed to score me on the osteoarthritis, it isnt even on their screen???

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — December 31, 2012 @ 12:09 pm

  189. Hello Donna.

    You certainly can complain, send your letter of complaint to the DWP and your own Member of Parliament should receive a copy as well.
    Let them know you are not happy with their scoring system, as it did not take in to account your osteoarthritis is one of the main health conditions which precludes you from working.
    Send a letter of complaint to ATOS too. they are supposed to advise the DWP on which conditions prevent you from working, since the DWP haven’t acted on their (Alleged) advice then ATOS should have a revue on what advice they are actually giving the DWP decision makers regarding your ability to work.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 31, 2012 @ 1:01 pm

  190. I’ve just had a fairly long conversation with the lady who deals with ESA at my local jobcentre plau who assures me that it is a 2 year scheme and no-one should be having their money stopped after a year. I questioned her on this a number of times after reading all these stories of people who have had it stopped after 12 months. i rang her after filling out this ESA50 form as it isn’t related to my illness at all. I can do all the physical things it asks as my problem is stress related and depression after a breakdown. Going on this form i would be classed fit to work. She has made an appointment for me to see someone who deals with these forms but told me there are a lot of people getting sent the wrong forms. My appointment is on wednesday so i will update after, if this is the case this may help a lot of people who are waiting on appeals just because they have been sent the wrong form.

    Comment by lyn — December 31, 2012 @ 2:34 pm

  191. Thank you very much for your reply, and thank goodness for people like you, i didnt know where to turn to, but will now follow your advice and put a complaint in, thank you so much, ive got quite choked up knowing there are people out there like yourself helping people like me. Wishing you the very best for the New Year and please keep up your good work xx

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — December 31, 2012 @ 3:49 pm

  192. Cheers Donna…Don’t forget to visit our sister site too, they have templates for these kind of letters to ATOS and the DWP.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 31, 2012 @ 4:51 pm

  193. She’s talking absolute rubbish Lyn, take it from me, anyone on contributory ESA will lose it after 365 days provided they are on the work related activity group version of ESA (WRAG), however it doesn’t apply if you are on the support group of ESA.

    That’s the reason why the DWP are conceding the WRAG version of ESA without telling the claimant that it ends after 365 days, the DWP just hope the claimant doesn’t know it ends if you are on the WRAG, and therefore the claimant doesn’t bother to appeal to get in to the support group of ESA.

    There’s a saying ” BEWARE OF FALSE PROPHETS” especially the DWP type. This person who told you that it ends after two years is either totally incompetent or nothing but a liar..!! I suspect the latter.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 31, 2012 @ 4:59 pm

  194. I have just read the paperwork i was given at the job centre, WP01M12/12 and in that it states it’s a 2year programme, I’m not really confused about all this now

    Comment by lyn — December 31, 2012 @ 8:32 pm

  195. A two year programme ? what type of ESA you get has nothing to do with programmes.
    Maybe they mean work programme. So what’s she on about no one gets their money stopped after a year ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — December 31, 2012 @ 11:30 pm

  196. I don’t know, i’m totally confused now.

    Comment by Anonymous — December 31, 2012 @ 11:33 pm

  197. Sorry that was my post for some reason it didn’t post my details

    Comment by lyn — December 31, 2012 @ 11:35 pm

  198. Well you’ll soon find out what she means, she probably doesn’t even know herself…LOL.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 1, 2013 @ 12:44 am

  199. I had my f2f assessment at the end of Nov and heard a couple of weeks later that I was being put into the WRAG. i phoned the DWP for all the info that they had considered and have now received it . I gave some incorrert answers re: how far I can walk, how can I put this right?

    Comment by Liz Rees — January 1, 2013 @ 3:12 pm

  200. Hello Liz.

    Difficult to see a way round it, that’s why every time you fill in one of these questionnaires we have to get it across that you answer their functional questions as if it was your worst day.
    I suppose you can say you answered them all as if it was your best day, and you feel your worst days weren’t taken in to account.

    When you fill in an ESA50 Questionnaire remember…There’s no going back, you need to get it right, because in the future they use everything they can against you.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 1, 2013 @ 5:22 pm

  201. Forget all the nonsense, if you are in the wrag group your money WILL stop after 365 days….No mistake. You have to appeal AFTER! you ask them to look at your claim again (pure stalling tactic) dont forget its after you ask them to look at it again.You must do it this way as they have been given permission to lie to you and have your Gp lie to you,why do you think the Gp’s have been given two large wage increases in the last two years.They have been told they can lie to their patients who ask if they have been contacted by an Atos Hcp.

    Comment by Maxi — January 1, 2013 @ 5:23 pm

  202. I am appealing at the moment, was told that they are 5 months behind, the place that I am meant to go to monthly as letting me do my ‘work’ interview by phone as I do not leave my house and cant go due to illness, all of them have said that I need to be in the support group. not the work related group.

    Does anyone know what happens if I fail my appeal? I feel like killing myself and have already started cutting up my body, ripping out my hair eyelashes and eyebrown, Im now going bald, I cannnot cope with this anymore :-(

    I have doctors and hospital records going back 19years, yet when I had my ‘interview’ over the phone as Im too ill to go in, the questions asked of my were really stupid, nothing about my illness, one of them was ‘can you pick up a envolope if its on a table and move in a few inches’?????
    Even though I told them I cant make it to the loo, she said that its not a condition so she wont put it down.?

    Then she said ‘you are in the work group its for 2years and I dont know what happens after 2 years as no one has ever been reffered back to me after that time’!!?? But I didnt know that ESA has been around for 2hears??

    Ive spoke to about 15 different people, no one knows phone numbers or where to contact, addresses, forms, they jsut say that they ‘dont know’ How does that help me?

    Im going to the doctors and psychritrist this week to ask them to write me a letter and going to call them next week to make sure they recieved my appeal letter as for some reason everytime I send them a letter, it goes missing.

    How can they do this to us? :-(

    Comment by meg — January 1, 2013 @ 6:08 pm

  203. Oh I meant to put this in my other post, I recieved a letter saying ‘extra money as you are in the support group’ Does thta mean work group or has it been changed to support group without me knowing?

    Comment by meg — January 1, 2013 @ 6:15 pm

  204. i dont know what happens after the two years i dont think any one does, the staff at the job centre are all w….ers lol i have my wfi tomorrow and my tribunal is on the 17th after they said they wanted to see my medical records for prove of mental health whih i have proof of but i think i will fail getting to the support gtoup we are all in this fight alone and the satff at the job centre are trying to bring us down even more than we are

    Comment by Anonymous — January 1, 2013 @ 6:15 pm

  205. Hello Meg.

    I can only be the Work related group of ESA or the Support group of ESA, it cannot be both, so if it says the Support group of ESA then you can draw your own conclusion.
    Believe it…but check it, preferably with someone who can see it in black and white.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 1, 2013 @ 7:50 pm

  206. Hi thanks yes I thought it was weird it says that when Im meant to be in the work related? I thought maybe my appeal came through so they sent me that, it was detailing my money how much I get etc, the government says we can live on £70 a week, why dont they live on that then?
    However I dont leave my house so I cant check it with anyone so Ill have to *TRY* and call them with the lovely helpful people that they are….!!!!

    Comment by meg — January 1, 2013 @ 8:28 pm

  207. Just called them I am in the supprt group now being reviewed again in 6 months! I wonder why my letter didnt say that when I got it a few weeks ago, my christmas would have been alot happier if I had known, I also wouldnt of ended up in hosiptal from cutting myself. at least I have 6 months now, the relief is imense

    Comment by meg — January 2, 2013 @ 4:15 pm

  208. Well ive been told that my ESA finishes on 5th January on the telephone as my previous post, but as of today still no letter telling me this, but today I’ve been awarded Disability Allowance for both mobility and care but only on the lowest rate, it’s better than nothing but they have totally ignored some of my comments, seems most employees at DWP don’t know what they are doing. I will file a complaint regarding my ESA on Monday but I expect a long hard fight .

    Comment by Donna — January 2, 2013 @ 5:25 pm

  209. Donna.

    Just because your contributory ESA ends after 365 days doesn’t mean you can’t apply for income related ESA.
    Whether you are eligible for income related ESA or not depends on obviously your income, so if you haven’t much in the bank and your partners income is low then you can qualify, take advise on that though, you will probably need to show paperwork like bank statements and partners wage slips etc.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 2, 2013 @ 6:58 pm

  210. Unfortunately I wouldn’t qualify for that, have no savings whatsoever but husbands earning are over the DWP threshold. We have a mortgage and may loose our home but they just don’t care x

    Comment by Donna — January 2, 2013 @ 7:13 pm

  211. It’s a disgrace Donna, your partner is supposed to keep you, can see a lot of couples splitting up to save money, how will that help the housing situation ? what an idiotic Government.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 2, 2013 @ 8:36 pm

  212. Like most on here they will never get my vote again, they wii only be happy when a few of us are dead and buried, if I were younger and in good health I would be out of this country in a flash, I never ever thought I would feel this way x

    Comment by Donna — January 2, 2013 @ 9:40 pm

  213. Labour will do it you as soon as they get into power as well.Try to REMEMBER this is noting to do with disability or illness,These government Nazi’s in expensive suits have given Atos the green light to dispose of you and your loved ones.Agenda 21 has started and the poor and sick are in the UK are in serious peril.?

    Comment by Maxi — January 3, 2013 @ 9:12 am

  214. Im on conbribrution based esa in wrag group which ends soon,i suffer with mental problems high anxiety due to flash backs of violent incidents that feel like their happening now.Nearly lost my live i never have a good nights sleep ever due to nightmares of violence,also had an operation that affects my mobility.Will I be transferred to income based esa after 12 months as i have no savings an no other income.All I got from some women on the phone was dont worry.Had that before an three times I sent sick notes in before they run out an never got paid.One time waited three weeks lost 2 stone in weight due to the stress an not eating.They refused to email my note an treated me like dirt,then was told dont send any more notes in.When you have been lied too so much dont believe them.Due to the medication I have to take i dont drink or smoke.During that three weeks I considered taking my life which ive tried before.My doctor wrote a letter saying due to my stress an anxiety plus shoulder operation I wasnt able to work.

    Comment by david — January 3, 2013 @ 11:42 am

  215. Hello David.

    It’s been our experience that the DWP never tell you what you are entitled too, you have to find out for yourself, the situation you have described in my opinion makes you eligible for income related ESA.
    So just before your contributory runs out contact the DWP and inform them that you wish to be placed on income related ESA and therefore please send me the necessary application form.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 3, 2013 @ 2:50 pm

  216. David again the women on the phone told me I was ok while april but i make it tomorrow my conbribution based runs out think she lied through her teeth like when I first applied it took weeks without money an was told same as this time no to worry.How can they sleep at night this people sleep at night.Got assessment rate from january 4 last year then may was put in wrag.Im getting confused an upset here as its 4th of january tomorrow an got last payment 31 december my last payment day is 4th january.Cant leave it while 15 january when my next payment is due as before ive been due payments an not recieved them.The excuses given in past for no payment include no information on system no sick note on system.That was after 2 staff told me to not send them in an citizens advise told me to keep sending them in which I have.The next one runs out in mid february please help me.

    Comment by david — January 3, 2013 @ 5:15 pm

  217. David…you can just call the DWP and ask for the form to apply for income related ESA, you don’t need to mention your contributory ESA is running out, any money they owe regarding your contributory ESA will be forwarded to your bank account when they decide to get round to giving you it.
    And anything the citizens advice tell you then keep doing it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 3, 2013 @ 7:50 pm

  218. Thank you for your help having looked at the paperwork from october when I was again placed in wrag with no medical only filled in esa 50 form the paperwork came back with esa 72.The paperwork says I get both its worded giving a total income amount is such an such then below it says im entitled to contribution based how confusing im looking forward to getting fobbed off again tomorrow on the phone an one fifteenth of january receiving three days to 4th of january.I do thank you for your help but id read some where where they know you live alone in that it will be transfered over to income based.Im now even more stressed anxious than i was before what a nightmare.Some people who live fortnightly pay their bills an have very little left to live on after that an cant wait for up to three weeks to receive benefit,wish id known all this before an about this forum.It seems like im going to go through it all again.but thanks any way.

    Comment by david — January 3, 2013 @ 10:08 pm

  219. David…Go to our sister site and find out the latest anti ATOS/DWP news

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 3, 2013 @ 11:12 pm

  220. I have put in an appeal casr next month. I have had 2 medicals one gave me 15 points the second 28. coment by HCP condition likley to deterorate over time. WRAG for 2 years. Peresumably a mirical will happen and I will be fit for work in 2 years. I feel like I have lost my vote or something, not counted as ill, not counted as unemployed, not counted as a benefit claimant. and all because I paid full stamp ( not Married womens) for 40 years before becoming ill. I could have claimed my OAP this year but guess what, they have stolen that too until I am 64.5 years old.

    Comment by Annken — January 4, 2013 @ 12:50 pm

  221. I thought being put in WRAG meant you only got payment for 365 days, although they will often still pay your N.I stamp. I have been on it for 365 days and it stops tomorrow but they are paying my NI until May when it will be reviewed. Good luck, I will be launching a complaint to both ASOS and DWP X

    Comment by Donna Owens — January 4, 2013 @ 1:41 pm

  222. hi to all i have been reading on internet that what cameron has done with esa is illegal and he is been put in front of a court himself because these rulings are not law hope he falls flat onhis face

    Comment by Anonymous — January 4, 2013 @ 2:30 pm

  223. Now wouldn’t that be nice, I’m still in shock at what has happened to me x

    Comment by Donna Owens — January 4, 2013 @ 3:00 pm

  224. Annken.

    You’ll be lucky if they assess you in two years, as soon as one wins an appeal it’s almost immediately the envelope arrives for a new assessment..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 4, 2013 @ 11:06 pm

  225. Hi Anonymous.

    Interesting…have you got a link to that?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 4, 2013 @ 11:08 pm

  226. I’ve been in permanent shock since the beginning of 2009, when I saw my first ESA85..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 4, 2013 @ 11:13 pm

  227. been on esa since march 2011 through my illness diabetes they put one wedks money in my account 88.56 does yhis mean my esa is stopped as not had letter telling me

    Comment by Henry Mullen — January 5, 2013 @ 12:48 am

  228. hi my names tony and i have my atos assessment next friday 11th January 2013. I had a knee reconstruction last June and have waited 7 months for an assessment think of all the money the government is saving not doing these assessments on time? let alone failing people!

    Anyway if they had have assessed me in the 13 weeks I would have been on crutches and been placed in the support group as I would have hardly have made it to the place. 7 months on and im still struggling around but based on everyone else’s comments doubt I will pass as can lift and move things and probably walk 50 meters.

    I am due a further surgery within the next month putting me back on crutches for a time and then another major surgery in June. I have stated this on my paperwork but is any of this taken into account for the assessment? Can you honestly see any employer taking someone on that has 2 surgeries due within the next 3-4 months?
    If you fail the assessment when do they stop the benefit straight away? what is the rough timescale on appealing?

    Any advice you can provide I would be most grateful.



    Comment by tony — January 5, 2013 @ 10:20 am

  229. Hello Henry.

    Tell us a little bit more, for instance have you had an assessment by ATOS healthcare yet ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 5, 2013 @ 11:50 am

  230. Hello Tony.

    I don’t know what makes you think you would be in the support group or even passed an ATOS assessment for ESA inside the 13 weeks.
    According to ATOS you are fit for work – take it from me mate – of course if you know anything different and the fixed fabricated assessment doesn’t apply to you then I would love to hear about it.

    So go to our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org and learn your rights, because this April there will be no help from anyone, there will be no assessment rate if and when you appeal an unfair decision, there will be no legal aid to help us either.

    So at the moment if you are found fit for work your sickness benefit stops immediately, there’s no ifs no buts, there’s no compassion either, if you call the DWP and ask what you can do for money to live on, they will not tell you that you can appeal and it’s your right, instead they will tell you to go and sign on for work, the person telling you this knows it’s all bull, they know you have certain rights but doesn’t tell you of those rights.

    By the way if you want to appeal an unfair DWP decision it can take around nine months to be heard at an appeal hearing, so EVERYBODY wise up and get with it, the DWP and ATOS are out to remove you/us from sickness benefits, that is their remit, that is what the Government have told them they want and that is what the Government require as quickly as possible.

    Nothing is to stand in their way, tell any lie, break any law, fabricate any ESA85 assessment report, tell lies on the phone, deliberately lose sicknotes, deliberately lose important documents that can help anyone win an appeal, hold back any information from the appeal service that can help you win an appeal, hold back money that’s owed, demand sicknotes even though there is no requirement to send a sicknote - for instance if you win an appeal – deliberately inform the housing department that you are fit for work – even if you are at deaths door – so that you lose your housing benefit, in fact the list of horror is almost endless.

    This is war, they have declared war on you/us, so learn your rights and help us beat them.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 5, 2013 @ 1:02 pm

  231. I’m about to make a claim for ESA and hope to be placed on the support group as I have recently been diagnosed (finally) with Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder – Impulsive type, as well as Social Anxiety Disorder (which I knew I had). I Have never worked and the idea scares the life out of me, Does anyone know how hard it is to claim with my condition. P.s I have an awesome doctor who is doing his best to try and help me as with stress over money and my emotion completly out of wack I’m worried I may be refused altogether. I’m 18, 19 on the 28th of this month.

    Comment by Measach — January 8, 2013 @ 6:06 am

  232. Hello Measach.

    It hard to claim with any condition, but your condition isn’t harder to claim than any other.
    It all boils down to whether you are a danger to yourself or others in a workplace, that’s one of the things you should be concentrating on to get ESA.
    See the CAB or your local welfare rights for advice when you receive the form to apply for ESA.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 8, 2013 @ 6:21 am

  233. Thank you for your advice, I am a danger to myself in a working enviroment, As I was in college as I found it incredible hard to deal with social situations unless I have a trusted friend with me the whole time, the only problem is that I tried my hardest to hide my problems from people im around and this just makes my anxiety worse. I’m being assigned my own social worker soon so they should be able to help me as I cant deal with seeing new face often.

    Comment by Measach — January 8, 2013 @ 7:32 am

  234. I was put in the support group due to mental health following the questionnaire sent last February. I wasn’t asked to attend a medical and jc confirmed I was in the support group receiving ESA based on my contribututions. On 18 Dec 2012t ATOS issued a letter which is the same as the first one they sent last February, saying my Incapacity benefit was listed among those others that would be changing to ESA and enclosed another form with Limited Capability on it so does that mean I am now in WRAG? I didn’t think if I am in support group I would be filling in another form so soon. I suffered harrassment and discrimination at work in 2007 which susequently added to my symptoms and has made me worse and caused Post Traumatic Stress from working. I won the tribunal and since then in 2010 my psychiatrist has written a statement which says I am not fit for any work unitl I reach 65 which means since that is retirement age (and I was then eligible for ill health retirement pension). This is to prevent the same situation affecting me again.

    I had already sent the jobcentre that report which included the pyschiatric report and details of my mental illness. I rang the jc next day and was told they would ask ATOS to contact me that day to tell me why they wanted me to complete it again. I had to phone on Christmas Eve because I was becoming over anxious and didn’t want to spend Christmas at A and E trying to get support with my anxiety/ depression. The same woman I had spoken to cut me off so I found my local jc number for the ESA team on google and got through quite quickly – this tip might hlep someone else.. The nice guy I spoke to there told me the jc had requested a 12 month review which even he thought is odd when I have been signed off from work for ever. He gave me the phone number for ATOS and suggested I contact them which I did and a kind adviser listened to what I said and suggested I still fill the form in and attach a copy of the medical report tot he front of the form so it is the first thing the reviewer sees. I know the last form insisted I sent supporting written evidence to the jobcentre and not to AtOS so maybe this will clarify it Ibut don’t trust them.Can you let me know your thoughts on this. I had kept a copy of last years claim form so used that to complete this latest form so nothing has changed except I am now 50.

    Any feedback would be appreciated.


    Comment by Lynne — January 8, 2013 @ 2:15 pm

  235. Hello Lynne.

    If ATOS send a form to fill in it’s really best to fill it in, there’s nothing to be gained by refusing, the suggestion that you send a full letter of explanation along with a COPY of that medical report is as far as I can see the best way forward, you can await and see what they say, and if you don’t like the look of anything they say then you can take action.
    If you have any doubts whatsoever then contact the CAB or Welfare rights and seek their advice.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 8, 2013 @ 5:06 pm

  236. Help…if anyone can. My husband has been on ESA for a year or so, with his second ATOS assessment done last January but in May he lost the award. We appealed as my husband has spondylosis in his neck, with periods where nerves get trapped and he loses feeling in one or both arms temporarily. He also has been diagnosed with arthritis in his knees, shoulders and spine and has osteophytes which are spurs aggravating the condition. He has had three MRI scans confirming all of this, had an operation to remove part of his shoulder bone due to calcification and has lost a lot of his physical strength with all of this,
    He was taken to hospital about a month ago in the middle of the night due to tremendous head pain which is believed to have been caused by the trigeminal nerve trapped in his neck.
    In May 2012 we appealed against A-Toss. (don’t give a ) as my husband is no longer in the position to do his work anymore and cannot lift safely and in pain most of the time. He is on 8 Tramadol and 8 paracetamol a day (Tramadol are opiates which hooks people, but we were not told that!!!), and obviously on these you can be quite gaga!
    For the past six months though, he has had to go to interviews with a company contracted out to do work related interviews called Lifeskills. Up to May2012 before he went into appeal he was getting £28.15 for being in the work related activity group and then they cut it out! However, he has continued to do exactly as he did before that, attending these monthly interviews otherwise he was threatened his benefits would stop, even though he gets medical certificated to say he is unable to work indefintely, and he is £28.15 per week worse off but still doing the same thing!!
    he has had conflicting information form DWP saying whilst in appeal he is not in ANY ESA group but still noted as getting ESA! If he isn’t in a group then how can he be in ESA??? Then he speaks to someone else and they say ‘MMmm. That can’t be right’ and then he got a phone call this morning to say that he is not entitled to the £28.15 as he is NOT in any group.
    We have a tribunal tomoorw and have all the medical evidence we need for the panel, but is there anyone out there who offer adivce or help or tips on one or all of the above. Thank you for your time. This has been getting us curly headed for the past few months and we feel like we are hitting our heads against a brick wall.

    Comment by Angela McC — January 9, 2013 @ 10:29 am

  237. Hello Angela.

    Do not and I will repeat do not listen to anything the DWP tell you ever, if you want to know anything regarding benefits then book an appointment with either the CAB or your local welfare rights, you can also get help here if you need it quickly http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Your husband is on ESA, but it’s called the assessment rate (At least he should be) and he should be getting something every week to live on, a single person gets £71 a week for instance.

    So what is the assessment rate then ? well the assessment rate is ESA without the working component.

    But your/his main concern at the moment is to win this appeal tomorrow, and to do that he will be asked questions on his ability to work.
    So what kind of questions will they ask ? well they will ask how long he can stand or sit for, he will be asked how far he can walk as well, they will ask if he got the bus there ? if not then how did he get to the appeal service building etc, and they ask a question that is stumping people, they ask ”How far could you propel a wheelchair ?” yes it’s true they ask that even if you have never even been on a wheelchair.

    Most people haven’t a clue how to answer a question like that because they have never been on a wheelchair so naturally wouldn’t have a clue.

    I wasn’t asked personally at the tribunal, and all I can suggest if asked is to tell the truth ” Well I’ve never been on a wheelchair before, but I imagine I would have serious difficulties in conjuring up any kind of strength to propel it any kind of distance due to the osteophytes all through my back and arms etc” this will give him the best chance of scoring points on the walking descriptors, same again for the sitting and standing descriptors ”He cannot sit and stand due to severe discomfort and has to move around etc”

    Answer the questions right and he will get points, and all these points add up, answer them wrong and he will get jack shit.

    So compare your ESA50 he filled in because the tribunal will compare the answers he gave back then to the answers he gives now, be ready for them, stay calm at the tribunal and in six weeks or so the DWP will be forced by law to put all the money they owe him backdated in to his bank account.

    So get cracking today and this evening and good luck and let us know how he gets on.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 9, 2013 @ 2:41 pm

  238. Hi there, Thank you so much for the pointers!! We will be studying that form tonight, as we have all the paperwork ready to go. I truly appreciate your help in this area, and no! We do not ever believe a word they say. From one advisor to the next we always get conflicting answers!!! I certainly will drop in tomorrow evening and let you know how we got on. Thank you for this site. This is a life saver one way or the other. We have been hearing some horror stories about tribunals!! Cheers.

    Comment by Angela McC — January 9, 2013 @ 3:24 pm

  239. oh by the way, have any of you been paid half the usual ESA rate this week, when all of it should be due next week? Is this some sort of ploy before going to a tribunal?? We had half the payment that is due next Tuesday today!!

    Comment by Angela McC — January 9, 2013 @ 3:26 pm

  240. Angela…No human being can understand the way the DWP work, I suspect they don’t even know themselves.
    And I can give you just one of the many examples from my own experience.

    A couple of years ago I won an appeal and within a couple of weeks I received a letter saying I must supply their office with a sickline (Medical certificate) so I phoned them and said I don’t have to supply a sicknote because my recent appeal hearing was allowed.
    The reply was ” Oh yes you do Sir take it from me ” I replied ”No you take it from me, I do not have to supply your office with a sicknote” I will just check that with my supervisor then Sir, and he came back with Yes it’s been confirmed Sir ”You need to supply a sicknote” by this time I was fed up listening to his irritaing voice so I said ”No I will not be supplying one OK ?” and hung up.

    Next time I heard from them a couple of weeks later they said ”Since your appeal was allowed on such and such a date you will no longer require to provide us with a medical certificate..

    Jeeeeeeeeez, haven’t got a clue…LOL.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 9, 2013 @ 4:10 pm

  241. I was on esa for 2 years in the wrag, I took my self off as I thought I could find work, after 12 months jsa I got a job, out of my 1 year contract I worked about 4, short time in hospital. The rest just to ill to work. I have a personality disorder with bad anxiety and depression. When my contract officially ended I was all ready signed off. Put my claim for ESA in with help from CAB. The day after I had my award letter I got the work capability questionare. Filled that in and sent with it, mental health assessment, mental health care plan, letter off my doctor, and a letter off my employment support worker I see through Shaw trust ( I’m available to access this charity as I’m in mental health care)spent 3 months worrying about the atos assessment.last time I had it I got 0 points, appealed it then won. So I was very shocked when today I received a letter saying I have been placed in the support group for 2 years, without another atos assessment!! I think it’s best to send as much supporting info as possible!!!!

    Comment by annon — January 9, 2013 @ 8:43 pm

  242. My hubby is tired of all of this nonsense i.e appeals, tribunals, medical assessments, etc when he is a genuine sufferer. I would agree that I don’t think DWP they know themselves what is what, as there are so many different versions when he phones up the DWP. However, I do agree that to keep sending in as much supporting evidence of the reasons you cannot work etc is very important. They then cannot turn around and say you have not supported you case and file with genuine information.
    As I said, my hubby is ready to give up, but I keep pushing him as this is exactly what DWP and ATOS want the claimant to do…give up!! It helps their statistics, makes out genuine folk to be liars and keeps those in power with a smirk on their face and that highly irritating statement ‘I told you so!’ on their lips. I for one will fight on and on, as I believe in justice where justice is due. I am glad there are folk on here in similar circumstances to ours, that still have fight left in them, no matter what they have gone through! Keep fighting.

    Comment by Angela McC — January 9, 2013 @ 8:56 pm

  243. 4 months out of the year I meant..I was first on ESA in 2010

    Comment by annon — January 9, 2013 @ 9:01 pm

  244. hi can anyone tell me if you can keep appealing i have just been put off esa and already appealed once

    Comment by Anonymous — January 9, 2013 @ 10:05 pm

  245. Not an expert but if you have been put off ESA after putting in an appeal, you can choose to make it go to a tribunal. Usually DWP put little booklets in with their decision that will give you all that information. You have ‘x’ amount of days to put in your form. That is what we did when my husband’s appeal was denied.

    Comment by Angela McC — January 9, 2013 @ 10:43 pm

  246. Anonymous..It certainly helps to give them as much information as possible..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 9, 2013 @ 11:10 pm

  247. Angela..We need more people like you with your spirit.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 9, 2013 @ 11:10 pm

  248. Hello Anonymous.

    Yes you can appeal again, I’ve appealed five times, make sure you apply for the assessment rate when you appeal, they will not tell you about that.
    So if you are thrown of ESA by the DWP then appeal, if you win they assess you again throw you off then you just appeal again, if you were unfortunate and lost an appeal then as long as six months have passed since the decision maker deemed you fit for work then you can apply for ESA again as long as your illness has got worse or you have a new illness..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 9, 2013 @ 11:15 pm

  249. i made my claim for esa on 2/7/12 and am still on the assessment phase. i finally got a date for a f2f interview with atos on 22/12/12 which they cancelled, they sent a letter rearranging the appt for 5/1/13 yet received a call an hour before the allotted time to say this again had been cancelled. extremely irate i called their appointments line and told them to get their house in order and they managed to get me an appt the following day. i am signed off with mental health issues so stupidly thought i would have seen a specialist when i arrived. i was interviewed by a woman whos name badge clearly stated she was a physiotherapist. im appalled at the lack of cohesion and care that is shown by these muppets so far and am not looking forward to whatever result this ‘qualified specialist’ deems appropriate in my case

    Comment by steve — January 10, 2013 @ 2:00 am

  250. Hi Steve.

    The assessment phase is supposed to last no more than 13 weeks then a transfer to full ESA should have taken place, it’s not your fault they can’t arrange an assessment for a face to face assessment inside the 13 weeks so in my humble opinion the DWP owe you extra money starting from the 13th week.

    You really should contact the welfare rights or the CAB Steve and get advice on this because not being able to provide an assessment inside the 13 weeks and deliberately not paying people seems to be the norm these days.

    The reason the DWP are getting away with it is because people don’t realise that the assessment phase is over after 13 weeks and either they arrange an assessment on your ability to work or a smooth transfer to full ESA while they arrange an assessment on your ability to work outside the 13 weeks.

    As for physiotherapists carrying out assessments, well they have an answer for that as well Steve, the DWP and ATOS claim it’s not a medical assessment but a functional assessment, this means any old tom dick and harry can conduct an assessment, basically because it’s just tapping keys on a computer, then the computer (LIMA system) decides how many points you get.

    It’s a joke and no matter how you tried you couldn’t make it up, but they can make it up when it suits them !!.

    Consider that LIMA means LOGIC INTEGRATED MEDICAL ASSESSMENT the medical assessment that’s not really a medical, just a kid on medical but really an assessment to allow the tea lady to carry out one in case they are short staffed on any particular day.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 10, 2013 @ 7:39 am

  251. dwpwxamination….I have been spitting and hissing and trying not to blow gaskets for months now, and have decided if someone has medical proof from GP’s and consultants to corroborate that the person ill or disabled is genuine – then justice needs to be met. It isn’t a matter of laziness, scrounging, sponging; it is down to conditions that cannot be rectified and which have robbed you of what you were once able to do. Anyone with any sense does not want to be on benefits, but there are circumstances that make that decision for you, and it’s accepting you have to be on them.
    My husband would much rather work, but his physical strength and stamina is found wanting because his body is now riddled with arthritis (from doing hard work!!) and makes him really depressed with it. After all, from being really strong and being able to lift really heavy gear and work all day without a twinge to this, is a hard pill to swallow (pardon the pun.)
    I will fight.
    We should not be victims over decisions from white collar workers who do not have the medical degrees that our GP’s & consultants have laboured for. I believe that the Government needs to put their own house in order and look after the genuine, honest and honourable folk of this country who have paid their dues and now are in unfortunate circumstances through ill-health, disablement or unemployment.
    Will we see that?? I do not know. It’s such a shambles. But one thing I do know and that is, with everything I have I will do my best to bring about justice for my husband.
    Corruption is rife wherever you look, not least in those who take our lives into their hands and make decisions such as there are at present. There are too many ‘prominent’ people in their ivory towers taking care of themselves and not enough compassion and caring ‘prominent’ people to genuinely help those who are in genuine need and make a stand…and STAY standing!!
    If the Government will not be honourable towards us, then we need to fight for the justice that we are due.
    Your site has given me renewed hope and is a valuable source of information. It’s good to know that we are not all succumbing to the tremendous pressure being put on folk to concede to their corrupt ways and means that should not be in force in the first place!! And to those who feel like giving up ( which I can truly understand as we have been close to throwing in the towel ourselves), don’t quit. Please, don’t quit! Just read this site and see how many other folk are fighting too. You are not alone! :)

    Comment by Angela McC — January 10, 2013 @ 10:22 am

  252. Angela.

    Stop spitting and hissing and instead win your battles with them, treat it as a game they play, a game you didn’t start but a game you are going to win, if you can’t win with their rules (because they’ve made it impossible) then play by your rules and win.

    And you can win by winning any appeals (That really hurts them believe me, that makes them look bad) and you can win by helping and guiding people in the right direction to where there best interests can be found, which is the welfare rights and the CAB and our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org

    If a person needs help then give them that help, it’s not for us to judge if they are entitled to it or not, we are not the DWP police.

    You can win by writing letters to your MP complaining about the whole system, you can begin a letter by saying that before we start you do not wish to see the same old template return letters saying that they’re trying to help people in to work and don’t want to see them languishing on benefits, you are sick fed up listening to that old chestnut and do not wish to ever hear it again etc.
    You would like an explanation instead why this Government encourages corruption, for instance why are ATOS fabricating thousands of assessment reports ? why is nothing being done, why is this country descending in to the law of the jungle where it’s every man for himself.

    And if the MP even dares to ask for proof that ATOS aided and abetted by the DWP decision makers are fabricating functional assessments (And he/she wont because they all know it’s true) then pointing them to the following web sites will get all the proof they need, sites like Black triangle, benefits and work, dwpexaminationwordpress, dwpexamination.org, missbenefit, whywaitforever where they will find people who will trip over themselves for the chance to prove their assessment was nothing but a pack of lies and a complete fabrication.

    For instance at my last appeal hearing I informed the panel that I wasn’t happy with the whole system and I’m ready to explode and someone is going to get hurt, I got points for wait for it ” Not able to identify with people and society ” and I explained it cogently according to them. An oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one.

    So it seems if you are not happy being taken away on a train to Auschwitz and complain about it to these muppets then according to them you can’t relate to society and can’t relate to people, that’s actually what they are saying.


    Comment by dwpexamination — January 10, 2013 @ 11:54 am

  253. I like many of these other people got a letter last year to say i was being put on esa and not ib anymore i didnt really understand what it meant so just thought as did my partner that they had changed the name of the benefit. I went along for interviews with job centre .But told them i was to ill to work it wasnt till now iv just been told that my money is coming to an end.I had a brain haemorage nine years ago it left me with epilepsy i also have COPD and now a gynacology complaint admitately only just been diagnosed with that i am 59 this year and will have to wait till im almost 66 to get my pension .Im not going to stop having epilepsy over night magicly now im deppressed because dont know how were going to manage just feel more ill than ever. Do you think theres anything i can do now to overturn the decision although my money is due to end at the end of the month .

    Comment by shelley radford — January 10, 2013 @ 1:34 pm

  254. Hello Shelley.

    If you want to appeal to get into the support group of ESA where the 365 rule doesn’t apply then please take advice as soon as possible from welfare rights or the CAB. I suspect you may be too late, but check anyway, check all your options.
    An alternative is to try and claim income related ESA, but to be eligible one must not have any more than £16,000 in a bank account and income to the home of £149 or more per week.
    Again take advice because it can be complicated and all depends on you and your husbands joint income etc.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 10, 2013 @ 4:37 pm

  255. Just to give you a quick update on my progress, i went and spoke to the lady at the job centre and she checked my limited cap form. She admmitted there really wasn’t anything in the form for people with mental problems. she said the reason i had been sent the form was because the computer stated it was my 6 month checkup. Althou she said it’s only been 4 months. She said the lady i had seen before was getting mixed up with the ESA and the work programme time. Today i have been for my first work support group meeting, every form the man had was to do with people who had been on long term JSA, he didnt’ know what to do with me as he had no forms for me, But he did tell me that i am entitled to more money as i’m in a wsg. He is going to get someone to ring me about that. I suppose as the limited cap form didn’t really cover mental health i will be classed fit to work.

    Comment by lyn — January 10, 2013 @ 4:52 pm

  256. You may be deemed fit for work but they can’t stop you from appealing, the DWP don’t take mental health problems into account but the appeal service do.
    Are you aware that a letter from your GP stating your illness and quoting regs 29 and or 35 could possibly secure you Employment and support allowance ?.


    Google ESA regulations 29 and 35.
    Where you may be a substantial risk to either yourself or others in a workplace.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 10, 2013 @ 6:35 pm

  257. Thank you for that, i’ll make an appointment with my doctor next week and get him to do the letter. I’ll have it read then for the appeal as i have a feeling i’m going to need to do one.
    This website has been a godsend to me, thank you.

    Comment by lyn — January 10, 2013 @ 6:43 pm

  258. Ok. Update on the tribunal my husband was at today. We sat and waited quietly. There was one other person before us and then a lady walked into the hall and was having a chat with another gentleman. In the meantime, another came in and introduced himself and explained what would happen at the tribunal. There would be a judge, and a doctor! (A psychiatrist apparently!! Errrr? Weird.) Anyway, I was going along to support my husband even though we had not included CAB advisor as a rep.
    i was told I would not be able to speak, unless I was asked.! Now, that is almost impossible for me, believe me. The biting my tongue has never been so exercised!
    Once the guy left, the lady who had been talking to this other gentleman came up introduced herself and asked if my husband would like her to be a rep for him . She was CAB!
    Well, I must admit to great relief, but she had to go and speak to the panel because this was sort of unusual, as all this is normally sorted out when the forms are filled out a few weeks before.
    She came back and said yes they agreed that she could represent my husband but he had to go in and plead why he had not brought a representative with him. On the papers they send out, although it does say a trained adviser is proper representation and that without one it can bring about poor prospects, it does NOT say that you cannot use someone else. So on that basis I thought I could still give being a rep for husband a try.
    Warning: follow the rules to the letter!
    However, because there was further medical evidence that came in at the end of last week and too late to post them on for them to get there in time, my husband had phoned up the Tribunals Service about this on Monday and that ‘yes, we could bring them along for the panel as long as it was not too many pages’ for them to consider looking at.
    Well, slap my wrists!! That wasn’t suitable even though HMS Tribunals office said it was ok. Anyway, with this in mind and because we didn’t have a ‘proper’ rep but there was someone who would willingly help us, and for ‘justice’ the Chair said, the tribunal was adjourned!!
    it looks like it will be another three months or so before a date is set with the CAB advisor attending at REP, so the basic ESA rate will continue to be paid.
    A couple of points though.
    1) The tribunal service gut who came out to meet my husband and I and explain the procedure said it would be informal Reality: It is NOT! It;s like being in court. I had to keep my mouth shut and so did my husband unless spoken to and only reply to the question asked. We were spoken to like we were in the dock!
    2)We were told that even though my hudband had been updating DWP with the progress of his disability as one should do, that the tribunal is not based on what has happened since the loss of appeal in May but on the appeal and medical results of that. So in effect, you could have lost two legs or any limb in between, or any other condition could have reared it’s ugly head and gotten worse, but they won’t recognise that. So you are back to square one and if they reject the award, you have to start all over again for the conditions that supercede the last appeal papers!!

    I am so in fight mode. Poor hubby is going through such mental trauma at the mo. He feels so degraded, I cannot console him really.
    However, I do think that the tribunal being adjourned today was the best thing for this moment.
    What do others think or is there anyone who has experienced an adjournment and if so what were the final results?

    Comment by Angela McC — January 10, 2013 @ 7:09 pm

  259. Hello Angela.

    It’s not to your husbands disadvantage that the appeal has been adjourned, because this will give you and him time to not only contact your new representative but for your husband to study the descriptors in great detail and have more time to compare what was written on the ESA50 Questionnaire and how he’s going to formulate his answers so that they match the descriptors.

    Yes it’s true, they will not consider any new evidence that applies after the DWP found him fit for work, because the decision maker didn’t make the decision on that new evidence but the evidence at the time.

    It’s confusing because people are found fit for work and go and see their GP who gives him/her a written report which the claimant uses in their future tribunal hearing, I know because I have done it and the tribunal looked at it and allowed my appeal.
    So it depends on what the new medical evidence is then, so it has to relate to any illness that ATOS has assessed the claimant on and not a worsening of your present condition or a new health condition.

    If one has a heart attack the day after the DWP decision maker made the decision then that evidence will not be allowed because it happened after the decision, one could argue though that the stress of all this ATOS nonsense and the DWPs idiotic decision has induced the heart attack etc, but if some kind of heart problem isn’t mentioned somewhere that ATOS and therefore later the DWP could see at the time, like a medical report one showed them then they will discount it.

    Also if your husband took a magic pill and became 100 % fit overnight the day before the appeal hearing then they cannot according to the law consider that and hold it against him either because as I said they can only hear about his health and how it relates to his ability to work at the time the decision maker made the decision that he was work fit.

    But the paradox is the worse a claimant looks health wise when attending the appeal hearing the better (To get ESA), and so a person with serious arthritis holding on to the table for support suggests to the panel that that person has problems sitting, but just sitting smiling and laughing without needing to hold on to the table will not help the claimant get points.

    Again, walking in to the appeal hearing bent over like a 98 year old man suggests to the panel that the claimant isn’t very healthy looking as opposed to someone who bounces in the room and performs some exercises like an Olympic gymnast in front of the panel before the hearing.

    Because even though the panel have to ensure they make their appeal decision on the health of the claimant at the time the decision maker made the decision, how a person acts at the time of the appeal hearing does psychologically influence their decision believe me, because panels are only human.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 10, 2013 @ 10:25 pm

  260. Oh my god they do not care do they, I recieved a letter saying that my housing benefit was stopped as Im no longer on esa!? I AM on it!! They told them this last october, yet I won my appeal in decemeber and they sent the letter in jan, so it gives me 3weeks to sort it out or My rent wont come out or bills or council tax! Ill be homeless, for god sake can we make a petition or write to the government about this??????????

    Comment by meg — January 11, 2013 @ 1:30 pm

  261. After my post yesterday, this morning i recieved a letter from ATOS stating that if my form wasn’t returned by the 18th i my benefit would be effected. having handed it in at the job centre on the 2nd i was a bit confused about this. So rang the job centre to find it was sent to totally the wrong place and took a week to get there. It took a week to travel to an office 5 miles away!!! But i’m told they have now sent it via Royal Mail on to ATOS, My only hope is that it arrives in time. So a warning to anyone who thinks about handing something in at the jobcentre, think again and post it yourself.

    Comment by lyn — January 11, 2013 @ 1:31 pm

  262. Meg, we can start a petition and it needs 100,000 signatures before they have to consider it in the house of commons. I’ve done a search and there was 1 petition about ESA along the lines of the problems we are all having but it was rejected because it wasn’t worded clearly enough.

    Comment by lyn — January 11, 2013 @ 1:39 pm

  263. No, youre right they dont care at all. My fight has started this morning. I have telephoned ATOS with a complaint of them failing to give the DWP full medical information (see my earlier posts). They failed to notify DWP that i had chronic widespread Osteoarthritis plus other things,infact this morning i have had two letters from my GP to attend the surgery as things have shown up on my recent X rays and tests. their Doctors informed DWP that i only have Depression and i was put on WRAG contribution based. I only found out about this in December when my personal adviser told me. Today i asked ATOS how long they have been doing the medicals for the DWP, they told me from 1998, that means that all the medicals i attended in the past where i was deemed unfit for work because of Arthritis were done by them at Southend On Sea medical center, but now they seem to have conveniently missed all of this when they sent their findings to DWP, funny that!!! I have contacted the DWP this morning with my complaint also and they are sending appeal forms out, plus i have written letters of complaint to both DWP and ATOS, and a copy is going to my MP. This has got to stop, i hardly leave my home because of the pain and effects of the controlled drugs i am on, and spend most days in tears. Im just so thankful for this site and the advice it gives, i will keep you up to date as to what is going on.

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — January 11, 2013 @ 1:51 pm

  264. A little bit of advice to anyone sending back information get it photo copied

    Comment by Anonymous — January 11, 2013 @ 2:16 pm

  265. Couple of things re above posts.
    1) re the petition rejected, because it wasn’t worded clearly enough. is there any advice that can be taken regarding ensuring it IS worded right and we start again?? I’ll sign it!
    2) regarding passing anything on to Jobcentreplus….. forget it!! If, as was later stated, you can find the address for a letter or even an application form needing to be sent or forwarded on, do it direct!! I have had bad experiences with this department too.,
    The stress and pressure people are being put under with all this ATOS, DWP, tribunal stuff is immense. We barely sleep at night for tossing and turning as to what tomorrow will bring, whether w can meet the bills, or if our home will be taken from us! It HAS to stop!
    Of course, the point my husband made recently was, once the Government, DWP and ATOS have ruled everyone fit for work (medically proven or not) many of those that sit in these offices and those with contracts with ATOS will end up finding themselves in our predicament!! They won’t have a job either! Poetic justice?
    So any ideas about the 1st point??

    Comment by Angela McC — January 11, 2013 @ 2:57 pm

  266. You need to be as cagey as dwp and atos go on dwp site and download discriptors to the assessment and point scoring. Download information what they use the decision maker,get into there way of thinking, know there system and beat them at it.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 11, 2013 @ 3:11 pm

  267. My husband, like so many others, has been placed in the WRAG group based on inaccurate, misleading and contradictory information within the Medical Report. We have requested that this is amended and that he is reassessed for the Support Group using the correct information. A copy of this letter was sent to our MP. We received a reply from him today stating ” I cannot get involved. Members of Parliament are prevented from interfering directly in the judicial process by the long established constitutional principle known as “the separation of powers”. This states that those who make the law – Parliamentarians – must remain separate from those who apply the law – the judiciary””. He has also stated that as only three percent of ESA claimants are placed in the Support Group he thinks it is unlikely that my husband will qualify for this group as he can drink and chew!! As our MP we were under the impression that our elected representative stood up for our interests – apparently we were wrong!

    Comment by Elaine — January 11, 2013 @ 5:24 pm

  268. that’s rubbish i have written to my mp as dwp kept trying to send me for medicals despite recently having one done ,he wrote to the ceo in charge of atos and they cancelled my medicals so he can get involved

    Comment by steve — January 11, 2013 @ 5:35 pm

  269. I guess we’re unlucky to live in a town who voted in a Conservative MP!

    Comment by Elaine — January 11, 2013 @ 5:48 pm

  270. can we start up one now? send it out to as many people as possible, this is affecting millions so we should be able to get those sigs!?? Can someone word it? Im not good with words!!

    Comment by meg — January 11, 2013 @ 5:54 pm

  271. Ok, so i want to ask a question. i have not read everything here as i feel there is way to much information. at least for today,

    my esa was assessed and i was put into the work related activity group, after coming off of incapacity benefit. which i had been in receipt of for 6 or so years previously. due to a neurological disorder, and associated difficulty’s after a brain injury.

    i am currently on this so called work program, which i was advised was the best thing for me by the dwp lady. when i had an interview, originally i was optimistic and willing to see where it could go. as although i suffer from a neurological disorder, ( which i will forever ) i was at the time i filled in the from and saw the lady at the dwp interview doing better. and i would like to work if i could.

    my problem and i need to ask for some advice. is i am doing the work program, I’ve managed to do some of the interviews and workshops the’ve run, and even tho i found it completely pointless I’ve been going along like a happy little drone whenever they have asked. the problem is since November into December, my condition has been getting steadily worse. and I’ve had to go back and forward to my neurologist who’s trying to help although there is not much he can do.

    so at the end of November i tried to call the dwp to inform them that my condition was getting worse, bare in mind please that i suffer from problems with my memory but I’m sure the call went something along the line i told them i have got worse they said so what… i said I’m on the work program and finding it difficult to do what i was asked, i got warned about sanctions and that they were going to start taking my money away.( sorry but i cant live without money ) i asked if there was anything i could do as I’m getting worse, and the only reply was you need to appeal, i was really confused because then although i probably wasn’t well enough to be put in the work related activity group. from the things i have read hear. i was i haven’t had a medical assessment with this atos people keep talking about. and i was at that time capable of attending the work program workshops.

    however NOW since my condition has got a lot worse I’m not well enough to attend and am spending most days in and out of hospital having mri scans and eeg’s, and i know that i am supposed to see them the work program people this Monday and that they are just going to start shouting at me. and telling me I’m getting nowhere and that I’m useless. which is a common thing i have had from my adviser at the work program. my neurologist said where possible try to limit stress, apparently it causes to many erratic electrical discharges in my brain. which doesn’t help.

    i really don’t understand what’s going on or my route out. do i need to appeal or should just telling them be sufficient. there not very helpful people on the phone, as i just don’t understand half of what there saying they send letters that make no sense. i guess at the moment i just need to be able to stop the work program. can someone tell me what i should do? i cant find any information on the Internet.

    i hope someone can advise me where i can go or where i can get help.


    Comment by Carl — January 11, 2013 @ 11:03 pm

  272. Hello Carl.

    Here’s what I can tell you, first…never ever take advice from the DWP, they are not interested in decent people like yourself who want to do the right thing and get help back in to work, sorry but there’s no sensitive way to tell you that.

    So you have cognitive problems and you should contact an organisation called ” MIND ” I’ve heard from people on this Blog that they are very good and can help you through this, you can explain to them what’s happening, just look up their number and contact them.

    It’s best to get help because the DWP are ruthless and will have no mercy when it comes to sanctions, I’m not telling you this to frighten you or anyone out there that reads this, I just want you to get help with this problem, don’t mess around, first thing on Monday get on it.

    You can also get useful information right now, even phone numbers on our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org just think up a username and log in, go to the general discussion page and explain your problem, they can help too.

    Good luck and let us know how you get on..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 11, 2013 @ 11:32 pm

  273. Hi Steve.

    Congratulations in getting your MP involved leading to a great result.
    But if your MP is a Conservative then I’m a China man.
    Don’t tell me he is because I’ll die of shock ?. LOL.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 12, 2013 @ 12:00 am

  274. Can anyone on this site please advise if my MP, who is a Tory backbencher, is correct in what he informed my husband in my comment above. Thanks a lot.

    Comment by Elaine — January 12, 2013 @ 12:21 am

  275. There’s plenty of anti-ATOS and anti-Government petitions on our sister site meg. http://www.dwpexamination.org
    Just log in and look at the useful links page, there’s one right now on the general discussion page demanding Cameron be removed and a new election called etc.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 12, 2013 @ 12:21 am

  276. Donna…It looks like you’ve got them there, not informing the DWP is sheer incompetence, perhaps deliberate hoping you wouldn’t find out, well the cats out the bag now and involving your MP is a good move, also those letters of complaints to the DWP and ATOS is also a good idea because I know they pay attention to legitimate complaints.

    Let us know the result Donna.
    And don’t forget to log in to our sister site for great information http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 12, 2013 @ 12:28 am

  277. There is a purge on you and your families as there was in Nazi Germany in the thirties and forties..Please dont think these rich men in suits are different from those evil tyrant’s of world war 2. Their methods are differant but the result will be the same, we must stop them or they will dispose of all of us given time????

    Comment by maxi — January 12, 2013 @ 9:24 am

  278. Elaine.

    This separation of powers rule is being used here as a cop out and they use it all the time but only when it suits them, they also use it to refuse to sign early day motions they don’t like the look of.

    You are not asking him to interfere in a judicial matter you are asking your MP who represents you to get involved in a human rights issue.

    Your husbands human rights are being violated by ATOS healthcare who forwarded inaccurate misleading and contradictory information to the DWP, it is not for your MP to suggest who should or should not be be in the support group, he should be alarmed that one of his constituents has made an allegation that a complete fabrication of a medical report in the form of an ESA85 was sent to the DWP, and he should be writing to you and asking for the proof, whether that report leads or doesn’t lead to the support group is neither here nor there, it doesn’t change the fact that one of his constituents has made a serious allegation against a member of the medical profession, and that should be cause for alarm and therefore seriously investigated.

    If he found out or was in possession of information of or a member of his constituency made an allegation that a member of the Labour party was fiddling his/her expenses or was meeting up with rent boys in Hampstead heath then he would be investigating it with great gusto.

    Your MP is in my opinion a self seeking charlatan who cares nothing for human rights, unless it’s his own human rights of course.

    Of course you can ask him if he’s not interested in his constituents human rights and therefore their interests and well being then why is he in parliament and what motivated him to be there in the first place.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 12, 2013 @ 10:29 am

  279. Maxi…I for one will refuse to get on any trains to Belsen Buchenwald.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 12, 2013 @ 10:33 am

  280. Thank you dwpexamination for your response. I have found your website invaluable and am going to try the Section 35 route now, fortunately my husband’s GP is a sympathetic human being. As a Registered Nurse with over 35 years acute NHS experience I have been appalled by the way the sick and disabled are being so unfairly treated and really cannot believe the number of people whose Medical Reports are falsely and fraudulently completed. The assessment process is farcical and only measures what they want it to, anything that may affect the individual’s ability to work is conveniently ignored. I really feel for those people without access to the internet or who are unable to speak out for themselves. Well done and thank you for this very informative site.

    Comment by Elaine — January 12, 2013 @ 11:04 am

  281. I have to agree with Elaine that this site is invaluable to so many. If nothing else it helps to make a stand for justice, and to share that we are not alone in this,and even (if we possibly can) take comfort that there are others who are prepared to bring this corruptive farce of a system from hell, to the fore. I check in daily now, to see if there is anything that pertains to our problem or indeed, if there is something I can pass on from our experiences to help others. Hard may we fight…..and often may we win, and long may we have a voice till someone REALLY listens up and acts on our behalf, to prove that victimisation of sick and disabled does exist and IS happening.

    Comment by Angela McC — January 12, 2013 @ 1:36 pm

  282. Well said Angela Mc! I really have the bit between my teeth now! I don’t know if anyone else is having a problem but I’m unable to download the cover letters from the Black Triangle site?

    Comment by Elaine — January 12, 2013 @ 3:48 pm

  283. Hi, As you said it is better to fill in the form and send it to ATOS. I need to know why I am or was told in May 2012 I was in the support group where I wasn’t under the 12 month review and now when I spoke to someone at the Jobcentre they said on my records they request a 12 month review. I thought that if I am in the supporrt group that they would not need to contact me. I haven’t received anything to say they have moved me into the wrag group and the letter ATOS sent me was identical to the first theysent last year stating my incapacity benefit was being changed to ESA. I have had ESA since March and it took until May for DWP decide if the £2 increase in my ill health retirement pension affected my benefit which it didn’t because the increase failed to go anywhere near the limit.

    What I need to know is why the jobcentre are insisting on the 12 month review when I am in the support group.

    Comment by Lynne — January 12, 2013 @ 5:01 pm

  284. The DWP can review you/us anytime they feel like it Lynne, they are a law unto themselves, in fact they break the law every day and nothing ever gets done about it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 12, 2013 @ 5:44 pm

  285. Hi I have been on income support for the last 4 years due too anxiety severe panic attacks and serious depression (suicidal). I now have found out that I have hypomobillity it affects my spine, hips, knees shoulders, elbows, wrists and ankles just b4 christmas I went for THE medical and was scored 0. All this was after telling them I can’t walk without crutches can’t stand for more than 10 minutes without being in pain the joint pain get so bad I get migraines from it an start to feel sick then I’m laid up in bed the next day. My partner can’t work because he’s home looking after me nearly 24 hours a day can’t leave the home on my own without having a panic attack I served my country for 3 years b4 I was medically discharged for being deaf in 1 ear and didn’t meet the requirements worked since I was 15! I really don’t understand the new system and don’t understand why I’ve been scored 0 there’s evidence missing out of the notes taken at the medical most of all the major stuff we don’t have any savings to fall back and don’t know what to do some info would be gratefully appreciated
    Cheers xx

    Comment by Shelly D — January 12, 2013 @ 10:23 pm

  286. Hello Shelly.

    This is all designed to force you to appeal, and that is what you must do, so you need a GL24 form and if you don’t already have it you need the ESA85 assessment report, you need the assessment report so you know what the health care professional has written about you, and therefore know exactly you are appealing against.
    You will also be required to provide the DWP with a medical certificate before you can get the assessment rate, it’s important that you ask to be paid the assessment rate because if you don’t ask they will not tell you about it and advise that you need to sign on instead to get money.
    Try and get in contact with the local CAB to help you compose the appeal, you can also visit our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org for help if you are stuck.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 13, 2013 @ 1:09 am

  287. There is a purge on you and your families as there was in Nazi Germany in the thirties and forties..Please dont think these rich men in suits are different from those evil tyrant’s of world war 2. Their methods are differant but the result will be the same, we must stop them or they will dispose of you and your family,

    Comment by maxi — January 13, 2013 @ 11:30 am

  288. Thank you for your great response to my post No.276, i have started the complaint procedure and have managed to find the personal email of the CEO of ATOS and have already sent a complaint direct to him, not sure it will get me anywhere but worth a try. Ive informed the DWP that ATOS have failed to inform them of my Arthritis and other medical problems, they have said they will send an appeal form which i must return with all medical evidence that i have, thankfully i have a great new GP who has supplied me with copies of all my x rays, MRIs etc and a very detailed letter from the Mental Health Unit i am under. My question is, they have said its an Appeal form they are sending, but can i still appeal as my ESA has just stopped after the 365 days, i thought you could only appeal if it was in 30 days of their original decision to put you in WRAG, i suppose i could go down the Super session route as i have deteriorated but really want them to admit they have cocked up and i want them to re review me.

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — January 13, 2013 @ 11:48 am

  289. Hello Donna.

    You have two issues here, both are related but paradoxically are separate, you wish to appeal to gain entry to the support group, and you wish to complain that the information that ATOS supplied to the DWP decision maker was totally misleading.

    So to appeal to gain entry to the support group is what the ESA24 is for and you can state on there the various reasons why you should be in the support group, you could also mention on the ESA24 (So that the panel can see it, because the DWP will not tell them for you) that the holding back of information from ATOS to the decision maker has resulted in the wrong decision being made, after all how can the decision maker come to the correct conclusion do so without the relevant information.
    This will help because the decision maker will not want the blame for something that ATOS are responsible for, and I would imagine there will be a phone call from the DWP to ATOS demanding nicely that they get their finger out.

    At the same time you will be complaining separately to ATOS and the DWP and your member of Parliament that the information forwarded to the DWP was worse than inaccurate it was non existent and you would like a cogent explanation and investigation in to not only why that was allowed to happen but why that can possible happen.

    Also mentioning on your complaint that your MP is now involved and who just might start asking awkward questions will spur the DWP – after taking further correct advice from ATOS – on to hopefully granting the support group rather than forwarding your appeal to the appeal service.

    By the way, when anyone complains to their MP a message flashes on their screen anytime in the future saying ” MP INVOLVED ”. The DWP have all these little messages they leave each other, little code words for instance the letters ” PV ” means ” claimant is potentially violent ”.

    You have everything to gain by complaining and nothing to lose because if the DWP allow your appeal to go forward after basing their decision on the wrong information then that doesn’t make them look good (Not that making themselves look like incompetent jackasses ever bothered them anyway) so can only help you at a possible hearing if the DWP in their madness decide to force your appeal through to an appeal hearing.

    By the way if you win the appeal either by the DWP granting the support group or the appeal service granting the support group then the 365 rule does not apply, because that rule only applies to the WRAG variation of contributory ESA, that is the real reason why they do not want to grant the support group.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 13, 2013 @ 12:58 pm

  290. Hi, just wondered if anyone can en-lighten me. I won my appeal earlier last year and put in the dreaded WRAG group. I have been suffering with my back (had a previous operation), I now need further surgery in a few weeks. I have attended meetings with my advisor, who said “I don’t know why you are here”, she has a chat for less than 5 mins and sends me home. I am on morphine at the moment pending my operation. I have informed the jobcentre and my advisor that I will be unable to attend my next 2 appointments because I will be in hospital and recovering, will this affect my benefit in any way?

    I have also received a “standard” letter from the job centre saying they are cutting my benefit by £23 due to a change in circumstances, it also stated that my benefit before this deduction was higher than I have been receiving. I realised that they haven’t been paying me the work related activity component since my appeal last year. I have sent a letter to them pointing this out and also asking what the change in circumstance is, and it would be helpful if they explained this. I phoned the jobcentre, to try and get an explanation, I waited ages on the phone only to be told by the woman on the other end that she had no idea why!!! Hello…. on benefit phoning a premium rate number, holding on for ages, only to be told “no idea”…. why is the government employing these people??

    Can anyone tell me if I am due back payment of the work related activity element from the date I won my tribunal.

    Great site and very informative.

    Many thanks

    Comment by fedupn46 — January 13, 2013 @ 1:20 pm

  291. Than you so much for this advice, i know i have been treated extremely unfairly and just didnt know how to go forward and not nowing what forms i needed was my biggest worry. Thank you so much again xx

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — January 13, 2013 @ 2:10 pm

  292. Hello fedup.

    Long before you attended your appeal hearing, you should have received a letter from the DWP informing you that you are on the assessment rate minus the work component, the assessment rate as you probably know is £71 a week, and since you won your appeal then all money they owe you (Work component) all the way back to the date the DWP decision maker informed you that you were fit for work should be paid into your account, that’s provided you are in receipt of income related ESA.

    Things get more complicated if you are/were on contributory ESA because the WRAG version of contributory ESA ends after a year and is retrospective (the so called 365 day rule) and could clash somewhere.

    So you need to establish what you were/are receiving and take it from there, as I said it’s complicated because of this rule, so get a CAB advisor or welfare rights to go over it with you and see exactly where you stand and proceed from there, do not rely on the DWP to tell you anything because they make mistakes all the time and will not tell you if they do, you need to figure everything out for yourself – with a lot of independent help – of course.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 13, 2013 @ 2:20 pm

  293. Have read all of the above (in stages) and am horrified. I started claiming ESA contribution based at the end of October. I am still employed but no longer getting SSP so work told me to claim ESA. I was called for an ATOS assessment on the 24th Dec in the middle of a shopping centre, I cancelled and rearranged as my husband could not get time off work on that date. I now have to go on Tuesday 15th January, I cannot understand why I have been called so quickly will they just say I am fit for work and stop my money. I have never been out of work am now 56 years old and never claimed anything, yes I know how lucky I am, especially as I have to fill in forms for my sister with learning diffficulties, she is in the process of being moved to ESA. Does anyone know what will happen as I am still employed, I also have a meeting with work this week, doctor has signed me off again last week as there is no way I am fit for work. Would appreciate any advice but it seems to me that they just want me to have the medical and stop my money.

    Comment by Elaine Nelson — January 13, 2013 @ 3:44 pm

  294. Hello Elaine.

    You will probably find that ATOS will advise the DWP that you are fit for work and stop your benefits.
    In order for you to get the assessment rate you will have to appeal against their decision to find you fit for work, and you will have to still send the DWP medical certificates.
    If you are found fit for work and you are still unable to get back into your job because of ill health then appealing and getting help from the CAB or your local Welfare rights is the only resource.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 13, 2013 @ 5:20 pm

  295. Well well, some news for you, After sending a private email OF COMPLAINT to the CEO of ATOS I was pleasantly surprised to receive one back today to say they are now investigating it, I shall keep you updated.

    Comment by Donna Owens — January 14, 2013 @ 10:00 pm

  296. Thank you for replying
    Sent from my BlackBerry smartphone from Virgin Media

    Comment by nelsonelaine5@gmail.com — January 14, 2013 @ 10:28 pm

  297. how did you get email address thought that was something they would have kept hidden

    Comment by stevenlumley5915 — January 14, 2013 @ 10:29 pm

  298. Thank you very much for your advice. Yes I did receive back payment from them after my appeal, but then I was placed in the WRAG by the Judge. I have checked and I am on income-related esa, so does this mean they haven’t been paying me that element since my appeal?

    I will certainly keep on at them, they have put me through hell, sending me for ATOS medicals, which I know is the procedure, but everything the ATOS examiner wrote down was all lies, and when I tried to speak she wouldn’t listen. Fortunately I did win my appeal, but that was only down to the support from my Mum. If I’d have been on my own I wouldn’t have known which way to turn, and I really feel for those in that position.

    It was very daunting going to the appeal, my name was on the door, as though I was a criminal! I would give anything to be in a position to work. My marriage failed, and I am a single Mum of two, not even scraping by on benefits, getting into more debt day by day, and on morphine every day. No one chooses to be like this!

    My advice is complain, complain, and complain some more. Write endless letters to the jobcentre when you receive one of their stupid standard un-informative letters. Don’t phone them, you won’t get anywhere, and if you do you will have been on hold for half an hour at least! if you can, involve your MP, and copy all your correspondence you send to the jobcentre showing that you are “cc Joe Bloggs MP”.

    Good luck to all, it’s great to have this site, because some times you feel very alone in your war for justice. x

    Comment by fedupn46 — January 14, 2013 @ 11:26 pm

  299. They will investigate Donna, but how deeply is anyone’s guess, let’s see what they say first then you can decide what to do next.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 15, 2013 @ 1:22 am

  300. Hello fedup.

    The backpayment you received after the appeal should have been the work component rate, all the way back when you were informed by the DWP that you were fit for work, then you will be on full ESA which is the assessment rate plus the work component rate. I don’t know your dates and paperwork so just to be on the safe side you should get it checked by the CAB, I’t wouldn’t be the first time the DWP have swindled someone, not saying they have, but checking just to make sure is a good idea just case.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 15, 2013 @ 1:30 am

  301. I’m a bit confused as i am now recieving less money than i was on incap benefit yet i’m in a WSG. I’m getting £203 a fortnight. Is this correct does anyone know before i ring the DWP .

    Comment by lyn — January 15, 2013 @ 7:31 am

  302. A friend got me the email address, it seems he often changes it, and I wonder why that is

    Comment by Donna Owens — January 15, 2013 @ 9:05 am

  303. Hello lyn.

    Nothing is un-confusing when it comes to dealing with the DWP, nothing is simple and everything is torture and doing things the hard way.
    So I assume you are in the support group, because I don’t know what WSG means, and if you are in the support group of ESA then every fortnight you should be paid £210.10.

    The WRAG of ESA is £198.30 per fortnight.

    So you are short of £7.10. every fortnight as far as I can see, so is it possible you were granted a loan from the DWP in the past ? and they are deducting money from you every fortnight ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 15, 2013 @ 9:10 am

  304. i am so much worring for my son who as learning difeculties he is age 38 years old lives in his own house he does not cook for him self he his terified he will set the house on fire he all so as no consept of time my self and his brothers try to look afder himas much as we can we love him so much he as not moved on to this new benifit yet i am as his mother so worried he will have his monys taken off him and lose his only idependance he did not go to main stream shcool i do sort his bills out i worry so much for whot will he do when im not here hope some one can help aworried mother

    Comment by dorothy holt — January 15, 2013 @ 9:31 am

  305. Thank you very much for your advice. I have sent the DWP a letter, asking them to check, but meanwhile I will check with the Citizens Advice.

    Comment by fedupn46 — January 15, 2013 @ 9:58 am

  306. Hello Dorothy.

    Let’s hope he get’s moved on to the new benefit smoothly and without difficulties, no one can predict what ATOS and the DWP will do next.

    But events can be seamless if we are on the ball, if a Questionnaire from ATOS ever appears then we deal with it as soon as possible, we can do that by giving them as much information as possible to persuade them to make the right decision, health reports etc, if any benefits are stopped then again we deal with it as soon as possible, there are certain procedures to go through and we take them one by one.

    The very worst that can happen financially is his money will be cut (Temporarily) not stopped, his money will not be stopped for any length of time to really matter, but as I said the very worst is his money being cut until they do come to the correct decision.

    And remember any money owed will be reimbursed in the long run anyway.

    So there’s no point in worrying, as I said we can take each step at a time and get him through it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 15, 2013 @ 12:07 pm

  307. Thank you for your reply. I’m in a WRAG althou the man i saw had no idea what to do with me as he had only ever dealt with people who were on long term JSA. So i’m being over paid by the look of it. Best i speak to them otherwise they will one week totally stop my money because of it.

    Comment by lyn — January 15, 2013 @ 12:08 pm

  308. Some are scrounging some need help..myself I was given 2 years to live in 2010. All my benefits are being screwed up.i pay 30 a week towards my rent.yes im in arrears housing benefit was reduced .the way its going im going to ask my parents to undertake my daughters welfare long before they need too..for once in my life im scared

    Comment by Amanda — January 18, 2013 @ 1:59 am

  309. Amanda…the DWP are not automatically going to sort this problem out for you, so you need help with this, no way you should be paying £30 a week towards your rent leaving you without enough to live on.
    Contact your local welfare rights or CAB and get help with this as soon as possible.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 18, 2013 @ 10:34 am

  310. Thank you for input but most of all listening it means a lot . I have cancer .. anklyosing spondylitis. Fibromialgia.reynauds phenomenon..p.t.s.d..severe depression..a lung complaint .excema psoriasis. Degeneritive disks .arthritis . osteoporosis.danger of self harm suicidal tendencies..but im fit for work …

    Comment by Amanda — January 18, 2013 @ 3:19 pm

  311. It’s all a con Amanda to force us to appeal..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 18, 2013 @ 5:23 pm

  312. Just wanted to update you, and hopefully give some hope to some of you! Comment 267 – after we received my husband’s Medical Report I sent back an 8 page A4 response pointing out all the inaccuracies, contradictions and incorrect facts contained within and requested a reassessment using the correct information. I sent copies to my local MP (Conservative & most unhelpful), my husband’s GP and our Solicitor. Yesterday my husband received a telephone call from the Decision Maker to inform him that following the requested reassessment he has been placed in the Support Group of ESA. So don’t give up, put everything in writing and copy in as many people as you can! Good luck and thank you to this website.

    Comment by Elaine — January 22, 2013 @ 11:03 am

  313. hey folks just wandering if someone could help me please i had went for a work capability assessment on the 31/10/2012 and was examined by a health care professional as they had stated i got a letter on 7th january 2013 stateing (as a result mr george thompson is no longer assessed as having limited capability for work therefore limited capability for work is not accepted from including 11/12/12and is not entitled to employment and support allowance from that date 1: why did i receive this letter on 8th january 2013 and not before hand to say about my benefits and entitlement…..
    i am currnetly on treatment at the LHACH (Lanarkshire HIV AIDS and hepatites centre) from june 2012 i am currently on medication for depression and sleeping tablets because im not getting enough sleep i have lymph nodes swollen up on my left and right rib cage under my arm pits around my neck and down my groin i have to change my clothes every 2 hrs because of sweating alot i have had the lymph nodes for year now and still not find anything else wrong with me as of yet for lymph nodes on december 2012 i have been diagnosed with latent TB(tuberculosis) i have been admitted in hospital few times because my immune system isnt functioning like it used to be also january 2013 i am going through tests for carcinoma cancer my breathing is really bad i am currently on waiting list for support group also on waiting list for blood borne virus psychology service .
    after i cam out with hiv and other symptoms i have no family left because my family have disowned me due to this and now im on my own
    i had put in appeal for this and asked for help from CAB they have stated that i have no grounds at all and wont win my appeal i got a letter on january 22nd 2013 i made an appeal against a decision about finding you fir for work issued to me on 11th dec 2012 ( remeber i never got this letter until 7th january 2013)
    they said they have looked again at the facts and evidence we used to make our decision and looked at the points you have raised.. However, we have not changed our original decision.
    what happens now my appeal will now be sent to an idependent appeal tribuanl who will lokk at the decision again

    i would like to state that they never asked me about anything about my condition

    now i have only had 53.00 from the job centre and still not recieved any money at all i have phone a few times at job centre and got told a payment will be in my back account well three days later i had no electricity no gas (i need these things because i need to keep the heating on all the time) i am doing lots of washing now becauase my condition is getting a bit worse i have had letters from my consultant and doctor that i sent with my appeal i got told i would get a wrag rate and payments would be payed as normal two weeks later i had phoned back and got told i have been getting paid clerical and that im not on the systems for employment support allowance on 17th january i had phoned up and got told i am back on systems and i will recieve my full money on 25/01/2013 well fingers crossed that i do get a payment

    but please please help me with this and so sorry that its to long but hwta grounds do i have x

    Comment by george — January 22, 2013 @ 5:07 pm

  314. Hello George.

    Now that you are appealing and the appeal is being forwarded to the appeal service, you should receive the assessment rate dated back to the date the DWP decision maker informed you that you were fit for work, you need to supply the DWP with a medical certificate from your GP or hospital in order to be paid the assessment rate, the ESA assessment rate is the same as Job seekers allowance, which is £71 a week.
    You need to ask for the assessment rate because the DWP don’t want to tell you that you are entitled to it, they hope you will not hear about it or know about it, and go and sign on for JSA instead.

    I hope this helps George, get help from the CAB or the local Welfare rights, don’t keep fighting these crooks alone.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 22, 2013 @ 7:18 pm

  315. I have just recieved an appointment for my fifth ATOS interview regarding my ESA. On all but the first one i was passed as fit to work and had to appeal. I lost my appeal following my second ATOS interview because the judge and the doctor had clearly colluded about my case and made their mind up loing before i arrived. I reclaimed and was awarded ESA again, the last two times the decision was overturned by the decision makers at the DWP. Can you tell me if the contract ATOS has with the DWP stipulates that interviews should be carried out by a doctor?

    Comment by Peter Bowden — January 22, 2013 @ 7:58 pm

  316. for my question againas i said cab said i have no grounds on this i have been handing in sick notes every 90 days and since november the doc and hospital gave me a sicknote and it doesnt end till may this year

    Comment by george — January 22, 2013 @ 8:27 pm

  317. Well you might not win your appeal, unless you made it crystal sparkling clear to the tribunal panel that you are sick to the back teeth with life and you have a strong urge to spit blood all over people. Special circumstances 29 or 35 ESA Regs.

    I hope you can grasp what I’m saying George, I don’t know the state of your mental health, only you can know that, but since you are appealing whether the CAB says you can win or not is totally irrelevant, I can tell you that you are appealing, have provided a medical certificate and therefore entitled to the ASSESSMENT RATE, because you need money to live, you can’t live on fresh air.

    Now for the CAB and Welfare rights, I can also tell you that both these organisations do a great job and it’s difficult to fault them, but there are some Tory supporters working for the CAB and Welfare rights, what you might call fifth columnists (Google General Mola, fifth column) who work for these organisations but are not your friends, I don’t need to spell the rest to you, I’m sure you’ve figured it out for yourself now.

    Just because the CAB said something, or me, or anyone for that matter, it doesn’t mean it’s true, so just like in all walks of life ask for advice twice, three times, four times, as many times as it takes, believe it BUT CHECK IT.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 22, 2013 @ 9:08 pm

  318. Hi Peter.

    I presume you mean assessments carried out by a Doctor ? well the answer is no according to the DWP and ATOS, and the way they justify it is that they don’t call the assessment a medical, they call it a functional assessment on your ability to work, give these monkeys a week or so training and call them HEALTH CARE PROFESSIONALS HCPs (Stop laughing Peter, these people are serious) you just couldn’t make it up could you ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 22, 2013 @ 9:21 pm

  319. I was so relieved to see a woman from CAB approach us at my husband’s tribunal requesting whether we would like her to represent us, so we fought to live another day as his tribunal was adjourned. However, two weeks have passed and two meetings with her have been cancelled. First one was because she hit black ice on the road although she did not crash her car. The latest postponement is due to her being sick. Since that cancellation, we have heard nothing. So, I am beginning to wonder whether she is a Tory supporter!!!

    Comment by Angela McC — January 22, 2013 @ 9:22 pm

  320. ty so much for your help and i understand what i need to do thnaks very much

    Comment by george — January 22, 2013 @ 9:23 pm

  321. Well give her the benefit of the doubt Angela, she may well be telling the truth.
    On the other hand ? so there’s nothing to lose by staying cool and seeing how it goes, I can tell you the CAB are swamped with people needing help with appeals for benefits, especially ESA.
    One TV programme showed the CAB at work and one of their officers had four hundred cases on ESA appeals on his desk alone to deal with, and more pouring in every day.
    Even at that they don’t complain because they see the injustices every day and want to help, some of them are volunteers who don’t get paid a penny.
    So perhaps this woman who offered to help has her own personal serious problems to deal with, I for one wouldn’t be able to cope with hundreds of appeals lying on my desk.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 23, 2013 @ 4:56 am

  322. That’s true. We are a very rural location though, and she had mentioned she was losing cases all the time, which didn’t exactly boost much confidence in ourselves. But yes, we are trying to give her the benefit of the doubt.

    Comment by Angela McC — January 23, 2013 @ 9:15 am

  323. just a quick question, I have been on the assessment rate of ESA since November I have recently seen about the new rules which are coming in in April about not getting the assessment rate while waiting for your appeal. will this affect me?

    Comment by Anonymous — January 23, 2013 @ 10:18 am

  324. Hello Anonymous.

    If you are assessed by ATOS and the DWP find you fit for work based on their recommendation, then if you wish to appeal after April 2013 you will not receive the assessment rate, but you can sign on for work if you wish, well that’s what they’re saying, dreadful isn’t it ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 23, 2013 @ 3:17 pm

  325. just a quick question sorry again i phoned up today to see if i was getting a payment out on friday 25th january i spoke to a girl called lynn who looked at my claim and said payment was issued but had been cancelled she said there no comments for why my payment was declined she said someone would call in 24hrs to me but i wont be able to get the calls because im getting admitted into hospital for 9 months treatment for latent TB i tried phoneing back today but gave up because i was on phone for 1hr at 4pm and no one had picked up the phone could you help thanks

    Comment by george — January 23, 2013 @ 6:32 pm

  326. George.

    It looks like you have no option but to send them a letter, and ask for explanations.
    Can I ask why you haven’t got a social worker who may be able to help you with this, because this is ridiculous, your going to hospital and these clowns are messing you around, no I can tell you it wouldn’t be me, I’d be on them like a ton of bricks morning noon and night until they got it sorted out..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 23, 2013 @ 6:47 pm

  327. i have asked for help and been put on waiting lists i have also asked the socail work services for help and they had said they cant help me i had tried to put in for support worker but again on waiting lists, i am also on waiting list for pyscology as well i had asked my consultant about a letter to help with my claim he said unfortunate that the dwp/appeal folk have to wirite to him to rquest information i have been at the docs every day because last monday he said he would type out a letter but unfortunate he hasnt finished it yet im just going round in circles

    Comment by george — January 23, 2013 @ 8:35 pm

  328. We are all in the same boat George, the medical profession and welfare rights are in chaos because of the strain ATOS and the DWP are putting on them.
    Write the DWP a letter anyway, it’s always best to give written confirmation on everything, they don’t respond very well to phone calls unless it’s just basic stuff.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 24, 2013 @ 4:43 am

  329. I have Crohns, arthritis,asthma and psoriasis.Had medical 10/12/12. Awarded 6points and thrown off ESA. Can you help? Is am 58 yrs old and my partner and I have lived on savings for thr last 3yrs.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 24, 2013 @ 12:33 pm

  330. Hello Anonymous.

    It’s not unusual to be thrown of ESA when you deserve to be on it, so you must appeal, and to do this you must write the DWP a letter, and state that you would like to appeal against their decision to find you fit for work, therefore please send me a GL24 form and my ESA85 assessment report.
    When the GL24 form arrives then start your appeal as soon as possible, the DWP have been holding the ESA85 assessment report back deliberately so that you do not know what you are appealing against, but you can get on with it anyway, because you have a month to appeal, if you are over the months deadline they can cause you problems you don’t need, and the DWP will not accept the excuse that they failed to send you the ESA85.
    You can state on the GL24 appeal form that the rest of the appeal will follow on A4 paper when they decide to forward the ESA85 assessment report.

    Meanwhile on the GL24 form mention that you have attached a medical certificate and would like to be paid the assessment report while you wait the appeal hearing, if you don’t ask for the assessment rate they will not tell you about it but insist you sign on for work (Now that you are supposedly cured) instead.

    You will almost certainly find that the DWP will send you a letter saying that your appeal has failed, that’s not true, what they don’t tell you is that your reconsideration has failed, if you get this type of nonsense letter from these crooks then immediately send them a letter back saying you still wish the appeal to be forwarded to the appeal service for an oral hearing.

    You can also contact welfare rights or the CAB for further help in the future, and go to our sister site for help too http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 24, 2013 @ 3:11 pm

  331. I received a letter on 11.1.13 saying that my appeal has gone in my favour and had been placed in the Support Group. Then i received a letter from DWP with a breakdown of my benefits saying that i was in the work related group. Could they have made a mistake

    Comment by Maureen Furness — January 26, 2013 @ 9:57 pm

  332. Hello all I injured my lower back and right elbow and claimed ESA, I explained that I was unable to walk very far including using public transport without my condition worsening that if I did so I would be laid up in bed unable to move for several hours, although I am in constant pain in both areas. Because of this requested a home visit, now even though I presented them with a letter from my Doctor explaining this they refused, but said that if I apply for my travel to the assessment they may pay for this, I waited for the medical assessment at ATOS to have my assessment on a Saturday for it to be cancelled and to wait for a further assessment date to be sent to me.

    I waited for at least 4 weeks only to be sent a letter by Works and Pensions to explain why I didnt attend the ATOS assessment on the 16th of June 2012, I replied to this letter explaining that I hadnt received any such letter from ATOS any appointment since my last appointment was cancelled.

    They sent me notification which read due to my non attendance of the appointment I will get no further money from my claim and it is now cancelled from the 16th June 2012.

    I contacted the W and P who said that the ony thing I could do was appeal of which I did straight away and filled in the forms they sent me to appeal.

    I sent my appeal papers in with proof that my mail is in a bad area for delivery and got sufficient proof to strengthen my appeal.

    While I waited for the appeal to progress I was informed that should my condition worsen or I have a different medical problem from that first claim which has now stopped I should put in a new claim which I did, has I also injured my right shoulder of which I am unable to move at this time I claimed for ESA with this new medical condition with also explaining that I wanted the original medical problems of my back and right elbow injuries to be taken into account has they were worsening too.

    I was awarded my new claim because of this and did attend a medical assessment at ATOS in September 2012, I was put in the WRAG group of which I had to attend an appointment at my job centre with an advisor that I had been given.

    On my appointment it was obvious that I was unable to return to the construction industry has a plasterer were I received my injuries and mentioned an HT course at my local college, I wasnt really in the best of health for that with the travelling, sat on a seat working at a computer for 3 hours, a total time putting extra pressure on my severly injured back and having to use my left hand has I cant use my right arm/hand for too long before the pain and stress increases until it is overbearing and have to stop using it.

    I mentioned that I wasnt happy to have to do this has I have just been assessed has not being fit for work but it says that the assessor thinks that I will be fit for work withoin 12 months, no thats wrong has far as I am aware of myself and the physio I have received that both injuries and any improvement in both will not be improving any further and I have to acccept that has fact.

    I was told by my advisor at the job centre that I have to comply with any work related activity that he thinks shouild be suitable for me and said that I will try the course but will be appealling to be put in the support group, his reply was yes you can appeal but untill you do you will have to carry ouit what and attend college.

    He kept repeating just give it a try and see what happens, so thats the position I am in, I have asked for the appeal papers to be sent on 2 seperate occassions and didnt get them, and although I have just received them I think I am past the 1 month dead line to appeal, I a;lso have mentioned on the phone while asking for the appeal papers that I also wanted to apply for a reassessment propr to my appeal only to be told that I have to appeal first how confused are they tyring to put me at.

    Now after all that I attended my appeal for having my ESA stopped for non attendance of my ATOS medical assesment od which I have been sent a letter from the tribunal that I have won my appeal and the decision by W and P has been set aside, I dont know what happens now but will have to wait and see what letters I get from W and P.

    When I was put in the WRAG group I later on received extra cash of £28.15 back dated to the 17th of June the start of my claim for ESA because the first was stopped due to my non attendance which was not my fauly at all.

    I need to know if they will back date it further bach to the day I started my first appeal which has now run into my second appeal because I won my appeal stopping my first ESA payments.

    The date is in September 2011 through to June 16th, I have receivfed the extra £28 covering this ESA from the 17th June up to now, it is the cash from the September 2011 to 16th of June 2012 I am not too sure about and if I shoiuld try to get that paid also due to it wasnt my fault that my ESA was stopped in June and shoul;d I have received the appointment I would have had the cash back dated to September 2011.

    Thanks and I await any reply



    Comment by Graham — January 27, 2013 @ 7:53 am

  333. Hello Graham.

    Yes Graham, any money the DWP have docked from you for non attendance provided you have won that appeal will be backdated to September, they will not rush to pay you, but they will pay it eventually, I’ve found a normal time to wait is around six weeks.

    I can add Graham, never ever listen to the DWP, THEY ARE NOT INTERESTED IN HELPING YOU, everything they do is to help them improve their figures and to save them money, their eventual goal is to present to Iain Duncan Smith a set of figures that he has ordered the DWP to produce to him yearly, these figures will be a reduction in the claiming of IB/ESA figures etc, and Iain Ducan Smith will stand in Parliament and wave a piece of paper exclaiming LOOK…OUR NEW WELFARE REFORMS AND THE CONTRACT FOR ATOS CAN BE JUSTIFIED BECAUSE I HAVE THE FIGURES HERE, WE HAVE REMOVED SO MANY HUNDRED, THOUSAND, OR MILLION BENEFIT SCROUNGERS (As many as he can get) and I urge the right honourable Ladies and Gentleman to admit their policies of leaving the sick and disabled to languish on benefits was wrong, it’s only right that we should fook them around instead by fabricating medical assessment reports, lie and cheat on the phone by giving them the wrong advice, hold back vital information from the appeal tribunals to lessen their chances of winning, sending them on meaningless courses etc, find them part time work for their benefits (or else) and include them on the figures.

    Don’t help this bastard mess us around, throw a spammer in the works whenever you can and give Iain Duncan Smith the one fingered salute.

    He is nothing but a failed ex Tory leader who fabricated (By his own admission) his own CV to get a job, a liar and a cheat as well as a criminal bastard, we will not lift a finger to help him, please join us Graham, look after yourself and to hell with Iain Duncan Smith and his unmandated, unwanted, me myself and I welfare reforms.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 27, 2013 @ 8:44 am

  334. Hello Maureen.

    I take it you received a letter on the 11-1-2013 from the appeal service saying you have won your appeal and they say you should be in the support group ? and the DWP are claiming it’s the WRAG you should be in.

    Well yes the DWP do make mistakes, they make mistakes continually, but in your case I think they are trying it on because they are desperate to stop as many people gaining the support group as possible (By fair means or foul).

    So send them a letter, and say on there that you don’t quite catch their drift, ask them, can you please confirm and with a full written explanation why you have took it upon yourself to go against the tribunals decision to grant me the support group, if you can confirm in writing to me that this is your decision then please send me an appeal form at the first opportunity.

    Also, if they do not concede on their next letter to you, then seek help from your representative immediately and get that help’

    What a bunch of chancers..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 27, 2013 @ 9:10 am

  335. My partner and I are both very disabled by severe OCD and Social Anxiety, she can’t even leave the house and I can just about go to the local shop and drive in the car, we both just manage to have some kind of life and any setback or stress makes our symptoms worse. We are also looking after her intelligent 12 year old. I was called in to my ATOS interview and was totally stitched up, the doctor kept repeatedly talking over me every time I tried to answer the questions and did not treat me as if I had a mental problem at all (physical tests etc) I am physically fit and well but my problem lies in my head and constant worrying about every thought or action. Anyway, I claimed for all of us (me, my partner and her daughter) on income support but they gave ME 0 points and just said they were stopping our benefits. I don’t get it and my partner is disraught, why are her benefits being stopped as well with no word from DWP? She wasnt even tested, why if I fail does her benefits get stopped too? I am appealing but only after a very depressed Christmas. I really considered ending it all because just getting to the assessment and the worry of failing was too much for me to take.

    Comment by Anonymous — January 27, 2013 @ 5:02 pm

  336. Hello Anonymous.

    There’s no reason that I can think of why her benefits should stop, it’s totally incomprehensible to me.
    I see you are appealing ? that’s good, get help from the CAB or welfare rights, they will really help, they might also help with your partners benefits too, don’t go it alone, and try and get written support from your GP or Hospital.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 27, 2013 @ 5:26 pm

  337. Thanks for answering so quickly, I have got ‘support’ from my local CAB although it is a bit shaky, I ahd to find out about sending in a sick note myself, they are busy at this CAB but that didn’t fill me with confidence. That’s why I’ve turned to writing on this excellent blog and why I’m off to register on the sister site/forum. I can only just manage to fill in a form with help from my partner because I find it so stressful, I thank you very much for setting up this site, you have my respect and I will be needing it, I live in an extremely rural area around the Highlands of Scotland and there is no local mental health advocacy service. I am an intelligent optomistic person but I’ve got enough on my plate keeping my OCD in check and looking after my girlfriend (she helps me too) so what I really need is for some expert adviser to sort it all out for me. But anyway, we had our last payment recently and I have sent in sick notes so we will be due ‘appeal rate ESA’ whatever that is. But I really don’t know what is happening about my partner’s ‘portion’ of the benefits, it hasn’t been mentioned, we aren’t claiming seperately because we decided to be honest and take the incomprehensible cut in benefits due to suddenly costing less to run now that we are a couple.
    With regards to getting support off the GP, that’s in the bag but I really haven’t bothered to explain much about my problems to the GP because I’ve already been through the mental health system and found it wasn’t doing me any good at all so I decided to go it alone. I am going to try to write about my problems soon so that the Dr has some information before they write a supporting letter, the problem is that I am used to hiding my problem from anyone and going to great lengths to appear ‘normal’, plus I spend enough time thinking about and fighting my condition, I try and forget it’s there as much as possible, actually sitting down and talking about it as in an assesment with ATOS (not that they listen) or trying to explain my difficulties to someone is extremely difficult. I find it hard to explain to myself so I end up waffling on and on………. and feeling like I get nowhere:).
    I think I’d better take this on over to the forum, give someone else a chance!


    Comment by Anonymous — January 27, 2013 @ 6:05 pm

  338. Anonymous.

    The whole ATOS nonsense is all designed to force us to appeal, it’s not just you, there’s thousands upon thousands of us, most people don’t even realise there’s help out there, and think they have to go it alone, god help them.
    So hang in there and take each problem as they come one at a time, if you do it that way I’ve found it’s not so stressful.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 27, 2013 @ 7:15 pm

  339. Hi everyone.my contribution based ESA ended on the 8th of dec 2012. I had already appealed to be put in support group 4 months before my money stopped. I would of appealed sooner if I had done my research properly an realised I could appeal at all.anyway I had another medical on the 21st of dec and I am still waiting for a decision. Legally do they have a time frame to give you there decision,and if I lose the appeal can I do it all over again.keep fighting everyone.an maybe one day we will be looking down on the scum who put us through all this stress and worry.instead of them looking down on us like they’ve trodden in some dog mess!

    Comment by Jojo — January 27, 2013 @ 8:40 pm

  340. Hi there, I am sorry for all those in here genuinely poorly but could I just say I recently had to attend the Norwich centre for an ATOS medical and was absolutely disgusted at the behaviour of those in the waiting room and not at the behaviour of the ATOS staff. I was petrified of going, had heard so much about ATOS and really scared myself, but as it was it was the waiting room that scared me. Never in my life have I sat in any waiting room and been shaken by the verbal abuse and violence I witnessed. Let me share my experience. My partner and I entered the building by the rear car park door as there was a ramp and sliding door, if there was close circuit TV then we didn`t see it, perhaps it was hidden ? There was a double door to the lift that took us to the second floor and another double door into the corridor leading to the reception/waiting room. As we entered there was an independent company there, boarding over what had been a glass panel leading from the watiing room to the medical room, it had earlier that day been smashed with a fist by a claimant ! We entered the waiting room and sat down, as there was already another claimant seated at the chair provided by the receptionist`s window. The chairs had arms and were quite comfortable. So, as we waited for my turn to go to the reception, the femaile and her companion opposite us were being derogatory about the whole benefit system and ATOS they were swearing in the most vile manner and clearly wanted to be overheard by all. So, a female doctor came through the door and called out the name, she appeared to be quite pleasant, was smiling, apologised to the claimant and her companion for running slightly late, held the door open for them. Okay I thought she didn`t seem to bad ? Then, ten minutes later I heard a scuffle and loud voices behind the door where the claimant and her companion had gone off with the doctor – the door then burst open the claimant came barging out, screaming back racist comments at the doctor, the claimant was shouting, waving her arms and picked up a chair as if to throw – I felt afraid of the claimant and not the ATOS doctor ! So, the claimant who had great difficulty getting up out of her chair with the use of her stick on the way in ten minutes earlier didn`t seem that poorly on the way out to be behaving in this manner. Okay, it calmed down, then a middle aged woman came out from the medical rooms, laughing her head off, she was with her daughter I guess and small child, she came into the waiting area to say that the doctor (another one, the male one) had refused to continue her medical because she told him ATOS was a load of F ************ C*************P. Some of the others in the waiting room, again claimants, not all I might add but some, thought this was funny and encouraged this woman, joining in with swear words and claiming that when they were called in they would say the same thing, they`d tell the doctor that he/she was a load of F****** C********. So, by the time it was my turn I was actually quite nervous, to be sitting in a waiting room and experiencing what I had experienced. The ATOS doctor (it had Dr. on his desk tag) came out, he called out my name, seemed quite pleasant, smiled, held the door open for me, apologised for all the earlier commotion (the behaviours of the claimants I guess he was referring to). He held the door of his office open for me, explained that he would have to type and hoped this did not make me feel awkward, he asked me much the same questions that had been on the form I had filled in, nothing new. Then, he said he wanted to do some tests .. he said that I didn`t have to do anything that I didn`t want to do or would feel uncomfortable doing and that he wouldn`t make me do anything so I was not to worry, just say if I didn`t feel I could do the tests. Then, after about 20 minutes he said that he had all he needed, explained that I couldn`t have the decision there and then, would hear from them, he politely opened the door for us, shook both mine and my partner`s hands and said for us to have a safe journey home in the snow. Okay, now I haven`t had my decision yet, I don`t know if he was tricking me or not, I don`t knwo if he was a wolf in sheep clothing but what I do know is, on that day, the ATOS staff came out as very calm and professional considering the disgusting behaviour of *some* of the claimants .. if they are going to behave like that before they even get through the door, do they really expect to be seen unfit for work ? I am not saying ATOS are saints, reading all of the blogs here, they seem far from it in many cases, but there is absolutely no need for any person whether they are ATOS staff or not to be treated with such racist, verbal and physical abuse.

    Comment by Les — January 27, 2013 @ 10:48 pm

  341. Cheers dwpexamination, great to know people are banding together to fight this unbelievable fascist, elitist cr@p. I’ve been seeing this writing on the wall for a long time now, the likes of the tabloids and Jeremy f@@@ing Kyle have been slagging people on benefits down for decades, I’ve even had some family going on and on at me to get a job and slagging down anyone on the sick including me. I’ve felt that a large portion of society have been looking down on me for years, so much so that I catch myself wondering if I am a ‘benefit cheat’ because of all the guilt complex from being slagged down (I have to remind myself that I can’t do even pleasureable leisure activities when I want to without OCD ruling my every action) to my mind the only people who cheat benefits are the ones who are earning plenty of money and yet still claiming, or are claiming sickness benefits while at the same time working full time – not many! The people who ‘pay their taxes to keep people like me in booze and fags’ (I don’t smoke or drink and so what if I did) think that their taxes are all spent on benefits claimants and seem to forget about MPs wages, lunches, bar bills, cars, perks and more perks and the small matter of the hugely expensive conflicts they’ve got us into after following USA nose to A-hole. Those bits of metal being flung around the Middle East and Afghanistan don’t come cheap, not to mention the lads wages and the treatment for the unfortunate wounded and reparations for civilians killed and then the veterans come back with physical and mental problems and end up on benefits or homeless. I have worked briefly and paid taxes, to be honest I never really counted the taxes as part of my wages anyway, I wasn’t working to pay the taxes, the take home pay was what I was working for. Why anyone would aspire to ‘cheat’ the benefits system and live on the frankly poor amount of money is beyond me, the only way it would be worth it is if it is a supplement to a full time wage and even then the amount of s@@te you have to go through and the degredation of dealing with DWP is surely not worth the extra few quid? I’ve had my problems all my life and it’s only in the last ten years or so that I’ve truly recognised them and stopped making excuses and hiding my behaviour and dealing with people asking me why I don’t get a job etc. Sorry to rant but I’ve been wanting and trying to vent that for a long time. Oh and thanks JoJo, I agree with those comments 100% and wish you luck with your case, may your benefits that you are entitled to be given to you and you never be hassled and treated with suspicion and a total lack of respect ever again.

    Fight the power and for your right to party etc

    Comment by Anonymous — January 27, 2013 @ 11:17 pm

  342. Yes well there’s no need for that type of behaviour Les but god knows what they have been through, I’m not one to judge, and anyone who acts like that has serious problems, but let’s see how you feel when you see your ESA 65 followed by your ESA 85.

    Let us know what it says on your ESA 85 if you don’t mind Les.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 28, 2013 @ 1:22 am

  343. I suggest that everyone watches Panorama tonight on BBC1 at 8.30 as they are investigation the Government’s expensive welfare reforms that aim to get disabled people into work.

    Comment by lyn — January 28, 2013 @ 11:45 am

  344. Cheers Lyn, will do.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 28, 2013 @ 1:24 pm

  345. Hello Anon, It must be so frustrating for anyone to feel that family, friends and society as a whole are looking down on them/slagging them off for claiming benefits and this was most certainly not my intention, If I offended you then I apologise. As I said in my previous comment, it was not *all* the claimants in the waiting room but the *minority*. I do believe, as with anything else, it`s the publicly abusive behaviour of the *minority* who spoil the system for those genuinely ill and label us all as being benefit fraudsters and whatever else.

    Comment by Les — January 28, 2013 @ 10:36 pm

  346. Thank you dwp for your reply

    I have asked for the appeal papers to hopefully be put in the support group, I explained to the person from W and P that due to my job centre advisor who didnt send me the appeal papers when I asked, and who also repeated for me to give the HT course a go before I appeal on too many occasions to my liking, I expected the advisor to advice me on the best way foreward but seem to hjave taken a couple of steps back since I was handed this advisor, yes I am now getting into the fact that they are not going to give me the best advice and will if I let them keep me on the WRAG for as long as they can until I may have no right to appeal by following there instructions, it isnt just one person at the job centre because my advisor is on holiday and I spoke to another person there who just repeated what my advisor said.

    I will keep you posted on wether I do get the £28 back dated to September 2011 and what happens with my appeal papers.

    Bye and regards


    Comment by Graham — January 29, 2013 @ 6:35 am

  347. Hello jojo.

    There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme nor reason when it comes to dealing with the DWP, apparently they can inform you of important decisions when they wish and pay you when they wish, good luck in getting in to the support group, let us know how you get on..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 29, 2013 @ 8:44 am

  348. Hello Graham.

    There are two types of advisors, and that’s advising on your behalf and advising on behalf of the Government, welfare rights advisors are an example of advising on your behalf, DWP advisors are an example of advisors on behalf of the Government.
    The former have your best interests at heart, and the latter have the Governments best interests at heart.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 29, 2013 @ 8:49 am

  349. I have recently been swand have been placed itched to ESA (dec 2012) have completed the ATOS questionnaire and Medical and have been placed in WRAG and am about to start work related activities. I have today received another questionnaire from ATOS stating that if I don’t send the form back by Feb 27th my benefit will not be converted to ESA. Di I have to fill this questionnaire in as I have only just been awarded ESA ??

    Comment by Johnnyjon45 — January 29, 2013 @ 2:23 pm

  350. One of the lucky ones here. Having various medical problems I was called in for an ATOS medical to meet someone who is experienced in one of my health problems and he said I would have no problems and shouldn’t be called back for at least 2 years as I am clearly unable to function in day to day life never mind work. On being called into the Jobcentre for my round of interviews they said I had to get an email address despite already having asked if I had a computer or a friend who had one that I could use. I have neither. When I queried what would be the point of actually having an email address (basically even if I got one no-one could contact me as I wouldn’t know they had as I don’t have regular access to computers). They replied I would need it as the government wants everyone to go online to get their benefits. I said they may want that but there is no chance of me doing that. They then informed me I’d need an email address to look for work. (Their own medical people clearly stated I’m not fit for work within the next two years and probably no change in the foreseeable future after that.) The result of the interview is that unless I get an email address my benefits will be stopped and I am now expected to put in writing my reasons for refusing and it will go to an adjudicator (in my experience, a person who is there to rubber stamp the decision made by the person who said my benefits should be stopped). I saw this as forcing people to go online to get their benefits. I’ve since read exactly that in newspapers online and they seem to be starting to roll it out in the Northwest (my area) as a trial to see if it works or not. Will it work I wonder? Force everyone to go online and tell them their benefits will be stopped if they don’t.
    Q. To Jobcentres in the Northwest. How is the take-up of online benefits going? Yes we have 100% of people online in this area. What a surprise!

    Comment by steve — January 29, 2013 @ 5:00 pm

  351. I have recently been switched from Income Support And Incapacity benefit to ESA (Dec 2012) having completed the ATOS questionnaire and F2F Medical and have been placed in WRAG and am about to start work related activities. I have today received another questionnaire from ATOS stating that if I don’t send the form back by Feb 27th my benefit will not be converted to ESA. DoI have to fill this questionnaire in as I have only just been awarded ESA ??

    Comment by Johnnyjon45 — January 29, 2013 @ 6:22 pm

  352. Johnnyjon45 they did this to me as well. it’s because they are taking so long that your next assessment is coming up just as they get the 1st one sorted.

    Comment by lyn — January 29, 2013 @ 6:28 pm

  353. Thanks Lyn, I suppose i’d better fill it in then althogh it all seems pretty pointless to me !!

    Comment by Johnnyjon45 — January 29, 2013 @ 6:32 pm

  354. Steve.

    Tell the blighters that you will make up an e-mail address, but have to borrow a computer just now and then, which means you can’t have access whenever you want.

    Comment by dwpexamination — January 29, 2013 @ 11:14 pm

  355. After having my F2F on Christmas Eve, I finally got a letter today stating that they couldn’t pay me ESA from Jan 12th. Like someone said earlier, my problem is one of depression and anxiety – which the ATOS assessment hardly touches. After leaving a job last September, I returned to my JobCentre and my advisor basically said that although he’d be happy to work with me again, I obviously wasn’t fit to look for a job and should go on to ESA until my head was sorted – which I did at the beginning of October. At the beginning of Jan, my doctor doubled my dose of medication, signed me off until the end of March, and last week I started my course of counselling and CBT. The letter arriving today, has resulted in an anxiety attack, and I now feel worse than I have for weeks – as the mere thought of an appeal or interview of any kind sends me into a panic again. I WAS hoping that I’d be put into the WRAG because with my current situation, I saw the extra support coupled with my counselling as being the best way forward in rebuilding my confidence and reducing my anxiety and depression. The government are always banging on about everyone understanding mental health issues better – they need to explain that to ATOS.

    In the meantime, if I can calm down over the weekend, I’ll start the appeal process.

    Comment by Dan — February 1, 2013 @ 12:54 pm

  356. Hello Dan.

    We are all in the same boat, we are all being denied legitimate right to benefits deliberately, and we all have to appeal against these unfair decisions.
    Your doing the right thing by waiting until you feel a little better before you start the appeal process, you have a Month.

    If you need help then you can get help here at our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 1, 2013 @ 1:34 pm

  357. I have been put in the wrag after being of work fpr nearly two years. I only handed my notice in November and I was called in the job centre thrown a piece of paper and told to go on wrag. Little did I know they had down arthritis and I suffer from fibromyalgia. When I told the wrag they looked stunned
    They now want me to go in and do a cv how cruel are they as they dont recognise fibromyalgia
    I am writing to dss tomorrow and appealing thanks

    Comment by Cheryl Jones — February 3, 2013 @ 2:41 pm

  358. Appealing is all we have Cheryl…good luck.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 3, 2013 @ 3:51 pm

  359. Hi,please can anyone help and advise I have been put into the support group for two years,,after a long and very stressful time…no appeal no tribunal..I need to know what happens after those two years are up? what will happen to me? I don,t want to contact the dwp they frighten me..

    Comment by Angela — February 4, 2013 @ 3:32 pm

  360. They should leave you alone but you maybe re-assessed after 2 years

    Comment by steve — February 4, 2013 @ 7:17 pm

  361. thought id update you on my situation, after finding out that ATOS had witheld some of my medical records from the DWP decision maker i launched a complaint. I contacted the CEO of ATOS by email, the next morning i received an email from Brian Pepper National Customer Relations Officer UK promising to look into it. Two weeks later not heard a word, so today i fire off another not so nice email informing him that there are now a couple of London newspapers after people that can tell their story and also that i would be contacting 38 Degrees another company that are disgusted and want to compile info about this injustice, and guess what three minutes later an email from the elusive Mr Pepper informing me it is under investigation and he will be contacting me within the next few days, watch this space…… im not holding out much hope, but letters have also gone to ATOS HQ, and my MP and i have sent a letter of appeal to the DWP x

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — February 4, 2013 @ 7:46 pm

  362. Donna.

    Grass them up to the London papers and 38 degrees anyway Ha Ha.
    By the way, the DWP hold back vital information from the appeal panels too, so watch out for that trick in the future, tried that with me…dirty bar stewards.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 4, 2013 @ 9:29 pm

  363. Last year I had a major operation on my spinal cord to remove a tumor which had started to grow again. Whilst in hospital I was taken off IB/ESA, as a result my housing benefit was stopped and I was made homeless. Racked up a load of debt with my bank in returned direct debits, not to mention being unable to pay my bills. When fit enough I managed to appeal, though it was of great stress. Thankfully Macmillan took care of most of this.
    I found out I couldnt appeal but had to put in a new claim on the grounds my condition had worsened. While doing so I was without money for another 5 weeks because they kept losing forms and medical certificates (luckily Macmillan photocopied all the ones I’d sent). Had to apply for a crisis loan as Id borrowed all I could from friends and family. Because I was homeless (down to them) they could only give me £36 to last 15 days until my claim would be sorted, not only this but they required me to make a journey 10 miles which would have cost atleast £6-10 in travel as my local job centre didn’t give out crisis loans. I also had to be there within 40 minutes. This is quite an ask for someone who is physically disabled.
    I don’t know where they get off on making these rules, but by being homeless the cost of living is more. Its not like I could go down the local freezer shop and fill my backpack with food. I don’t think £36 for 15 days would be enough to feed a dog let alone a human.
    Recently had a load of bother with ESA again and spent quite a while on hold trying to contact them. I’m not fit enough to go to the job centre and use their phones every time I have a problem, or they have a problem for that matter. Anyways, just got my phone bill through for over £85 due to calling ESA. Looks like I’ll be going hungry next week, not that Mr Cameron or the DWP care as i’m just another leech on the system.

    Comment by Aaron — February 5, 2013 @ 3:05 am

  364. Aaron.

    The DWP are monsters, they have no soul, it’s not possible to work for the DWP and be a decent human being, as far as I’m concerned they are just scumbags.

    In the past I’ve had DWP workers coming on here trying to justify the horror they are inflicting, they all have a different excuse, one person said if he didn’t carry out orders from his boss he/she ? would get the sack, another one said that they do sterling work rooting out scroungers, another worked for a Sheffield job centre advising disabled clients and came on here giving people abuse – I found out some information on that asshole and threatened him, and also warned him not to come back here again – and another one had another flimsy excuse.

    I’m not interested in their excuses, they can go to hell as far as I’m concerned, they have asked for it and one day they are going to get it..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 5, 2013 @ 8:24 am

  365. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-21376915 interesting read from todays news.

    Comment by lyn — February 8, 2013 @ 7:55 am

  366. Was up early this morning and noticed that, the DWPs response is always the same, and it goes something like this ” The last Government left people languishing on benefits, but we have improved the WCA and made it fairer ”.

    We all know that second part at least is an outright lie, they have achieved the impossible and made the WCA even more unfair. If they are going to be in continual denial when confronted with the actual evidence then we have a long fight on our hands.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 8, 2013 @ 10:23 am

  367. I have appealled to go into the support group though i don’t hold out much hope of being put into it. I’m not sure if this is the right place to ask this question as its about the new law that is coming in April about houseing benefit, I have lived in my 3 bedroom house for 29 years and brought 3 children up in it they have all left home now and i am here on my own, Whats worrying me and i just dont seem to be able to get any answers i went to the CAB yesterday but they were no help as they just say the law has not come in yet. How am i going to afford to pay the extra money for the 2 rooms i do not use. I suffer with anxiety and panic attacks i don’t go anywhere unless i take diazpam or drink alchol and someone has to come with me. My housing group are no help as i have a dog and they will not let me keep him if i go into a flat and i could not give him up he keeps me sane. My housing group are already sending out letters saying that the law is changing and if we don’t pay our rent then they will evicts us thats making me more anxious as i only just about pay all my bills as it is let alone find the extra money for the rooms. I am on a swap site but no one wants to move from a one bedroom place to a 3 bedroom place so i am stuggling and if i’m honest just the thought of leaving here is terriying.

    Comment by peachy — February 8, 2013 @ 3:17 pm

  368. Hi there please help…
    I was previously on incapacity benifit for eight years due to a motorbike accident.
    Over year I had an Atos medical and was put on the work related group. Then had another questionnaire. I didn’t realize my contrubution based esa would end after 365 days, my wife works full time and has supported me while incurring debts. She earns too much for me now to claim income based, even thought our outgoings are crushing us. I stand to lose £432 a month.

    Is there anything I can do to avoid to potential disaster?

    Comment by Stefan — February 12, 2013 @ 4:36 pm

  369. Hello Stefan.

    As you can see this Government have tricked you, and tricked thousands upon thousands of others as well, stripping you of your benefits is supposed to get you back in to work and make work pay, what a joke eh ?.

    Well there’s only one avenue left as far as I can see which is to appeal to get into the support group of Contributory ESA, because the support group is not affected and continues indefinitely at least until your next fabricated assessment by ATOS.
    Your 365 days are not expired yet and you have another questionnaire to fill in which means one of two things will happen, the first thing to happen is the DWP send you a letter saying you do not need to be assessed and you are entitled to ESA, but it will be the WRAG and ends after your 365 days are up.

    Or ATOS assess you and either find you fit for work or find you unfit for work – probably the former – either which will lead to an appeal, and the appeal will be to get in to the support group, there is no other way round it.

    So then you need to get in to the support group at all costs, it’s unlikely the DWP will hand it to you on a plate which means you will have to fight for it, and that means an appeal, and whether you can get the support group will depend on how ill you are.

    You can get help on the best way to do this if you think up a username and log in to our sister site and just ask them http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 12, 2013 @ 7:40 pm

  370. It’s been a year since I failed my ATOS examination. I have appealed again and am waiting for a date. I have decided to change address and will be going to live in a different benefits office area. How will this affect my appeal? Thanks if anybody knows.

    Comment by Mark — February 13, 2013 @ 12:57 pm

  371. Hello Mark.

    Make sure you correspond with the DWP continually, they don’t know their ass from their elbow and are liable to send letters to your last address.
    This could potentially have disastrous constituencies for you if the DWP don’t get it right, you would think it would be a simple matter to note your new address and act accordingly, but the amount of people who come on here and our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org complaining they didn’t receive mail at their new address is colossal.
    Some people have actually physically visited their last address to be told by the new occupants that there is a pile of mail from the DWP and ATOS waiting for them.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 13, 2013 @ 3:31 pm

  372. Hi,

    Does anyone know how long it takes the DWP to process an application for Income based ESA? I discovered my contributions based ESA was ending only ONE week before it did! (and only then because I rang them about something else) I requested an application form which I completed and returned the day after I received it (21st January 2013) The DWP have confirmed (I rang them on the 7th of February) that they received it on the 25th of January and would “look at it as soon as they could”

    I have not had a payment since 23 January. I still have not heard anything from DWP, so it looks like I will not get anything on my next payment date (20 Feb) They have already missed the payment due on the 6th of February.

    I live alone and I do not have any savings. I have a small pension of about £40 pw and, thankfully, an overdraft facility, but i have already gone overdrawn and will have to resort to my credit card if they take much longer!

    I am due to be reassessed for ESA in March and have already completed my ESA50 and returned it to good old Atos. If I “fail” and have to appeal, as I did last time, it’s all going to get so mixed up!

    Also, I understood that one had to attend 5 work focussed interviews when in the WRAG, the lady at jobcentre plus has only sent me two appontments in over a year. I rang to make sure I had not missed any but was told all was ok? The WHOLE thing is a complete farce and I am sick to death of it, and we still have universal credit and council tax changes to look forward to!!!!!!

    thank you

    Comment by Norma Roberts — February 14, 2013 @ 7:30 pm

  373. Hello Norma.

    It can take around three or four weeks even longer for the DWP to get round to processing a claim for ESA, they are never in any hurry and they are not in the business of showing any kind of compassion either.

    People have been assessed by ATOS, and I mean seriously crippled people and in no time at all they have been informed by these monsters from the DWP that they are now fit for work and therefore under the law they are no longer entitled to sickness benefits.

    The people I’m talking about have three children or even more and are on their last legs and literally cannot work because it’s physically impossible, even they have been told in letters that they are no longer entitled to sickness benefits so here’s your P45 go and get a job.
    People who work for the DWP are in the main working class people, but they have become indoctrinated by Tory (NAZI ?) ideology and allowed themselves to be so brainwashed they can carry out dreadful orders like that with no compassion whatsoever.

    Well these people who work for the DWP can laugh for the moment, but one day their time will come, and they will not be laughing any longer.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 14, 2013 @ 10:26 pm

  374. I appealed against a decision that they would not pay any more ESA because I didnt attend a medical that was sent to me from Atos some time in May 2012, I was given an appeal date the 22nd of January 2013.
    I attended the appeal were all the information that I had for my defence had altready been given to the Judge from Liverpool Tribunal Services.

    I went into the hearing were many questions were asked by the Judge and answered by myself, he went through my defence papers that I had provided to act in my defence that I had not received the assessment letter from ATOS for an assessment into my claim for ESA.

    He was polite and explained that he would make his decision and would write to myself in the next couple of days with the decision.

    That was a Tuesday and I received the decision on the Thursday of that week that I had won my appeal and the decision to stop my ESA was struck out and I was to be paid ESA back dated to September 2012.

    I had while waiting for an appeal date been advised by the W&P department while speaking to them about why they had stopped my ESA and the only thing I could do was to claim for ESA with another medical condition, I explained that I still had the same condition and it had got worse, I thought that would be ok to carry on with my claim, to cut a very long and agumentative with W&P they said they wouldnt except it because it was the same medical condition that I claimed before my ESA was stopped, I did have another different medical condition that I had seen my doctor for whoile waiting for an assessmentand so he gave me a new medical certificate which stated my new medical condition and included the one that I had claimed for before making it a new claim but adding all my medical problems all together on the same medical note so has my I should be able to claim back payment to the previous September should I win my appeal, off which I did.

    I was awarded ESA and some 12 weeks later received an assessment date at ATOS which I attended were he said that I would be contacted by W&P who would decide which group they would be putting me into has he had already told me that I wasnt fit for work at that time.

    The W&P contacted me with the information that I had been put into the WRAG group of which I was not happy at that at all, I am unfit just to walk a couple of yards, he knew this because they had paid for my taxi to and from the assessment of which I told him so and the reason why.

    Now back to my appeal that I won, I contacted the W&P on the day that I received the letter that I had in fact won my appeal and it stated that a letter had also been sent out to the W&P telling them so.

    The guy from W&P who I was talking too said that I will have to wait about 10 days because it may take that long to reach them so I did wait 10 days.

    I rang them last Friday the 15/02/2013 wanting to know if they were going to back date my payments to September, the reply that I received was that they hadnt received any letter from the tribunal and would have to ask for another to be sent, I rang the tribunal stytraight away explaining this and they said that another would be sent by post and by fax to the addresses that they held for the Preston Branch of W&P dealing with my appeal.

    The guy I spoke to whop said he would ask for another letter from the tribunal would contact me when he received the tribunal letter and deal with any payment if it could be made, I didnt like that response at all because he probably meant that it wont be back dated to September 2012.

    I have had a backpayment of the £28 back dated until my new claim was awarded in June then put in the WRAg grouplater but because they didnt believe me that I didnt get the original date of my assessment and didnt go and I have proved that it wasnt my fault then I expect to have it back dated to September 2012, the start of my first claim.

    I will get back to you on this



    Comment by Graham Pye — February 17, 2013 @ 3:57 pm

  375. hi i wrote on youre page no52 cut along storey won my apeal put in wrag esa stopped november after 1year so i wote letter to tribuneral jan.and asked if they had made a mistake got letter back end jan to say they have put suppoert component on what happens now. does that mean it will be reinstated. and tthen will i be left alone for 2years. from this new date i wont have to go meetings with them or do i please help

    Comment by ann — February 17, 2013 @ 4:24 pm

  376. Hi all….. I’ve never commented on a site like this before but I feel so strongly about the shambles that is esa! I have just turned 40 and first diagnosed with cancer when I was 31 and then 2nd different cancer 5 years later…… Doctors even class me as not the norm and weren’t sure what to do with me. I’m on lots of medication to combat the reoccurrance of cancer aswell as after effects that have invaded my body! I’m lucky to still be breathing….. My doctors , specialists, nurses etc all say relax , don’t do too much, rest , look after yourself….. I’m now due to have long term physio for side effects of my operations and I scored nil points on my assessment! Was then told to go onto job seekers and get sick note off doctor to go on sick….. Errrrr what’s the difference! Difference being I have worked full time all my life up until this illness and so has my husband which means I can only claim for 6 months…!!! I have asked what employment I can do and who would actually employ me…… I’m disgusted with the system as immigrants come to this country and can claim everything! The worse part of the report was when the so called ‘ health professional said I was capable of looking after my son therefore capable of working!!! I would love to know who else was going to look after him!!!!! But of course if my husband had given up work we could have claimed everything but would have lost a lot of pride which is in short supply after having 2 bouts of cancer!!!! Rant over lol….. Good luck to you all x

    Comment by Andi — February 17, 2013 @ 5:10 pm

  377. You should get it backdated to Sept Graham, but it usually takes around six or seven weeks for the DWP to inform you with a confirmation letter if you win a tribunal.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 17, 2013 @ 5:23 pm

  378. Hello Ann…Well are you saying the DWP are not granting the support group ? if so then get it in writing as a confirmation, and appeal, you will win the appeal easily, so I suspect the DWP are chancing their arm hoping you haven’t got the will or the strength to fight, I believe as soon as you ask for that confirmation and an indication that you wish to appeal if they don’t grant you it then they will change their minds.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 17, 2013 @ 5:29 pm

  379. Hello Andi.

    Not sure what the DWP mean that you can sign on and at the same time have to send them a medical certificate, and also not sure what they mean you can only claim for six months, can you explain then ? do you mean claiming ESA or JSA ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 17, 2013 @ 5:37 pm

  380. Hi I’m Lin

    I have just been put on ESA in November of last year, I have been a carer to my partner for the last five years, that only meant watching over him, making sure he did not choke, looking after his medication and making phone calls and sorting out any problems over the phone. He was very poorly, we gave our house back to the Building Society and the Council gave us a bungalow. For five years my Partner slept on the sofa and me in a chair because he could not climb the stairs. We had not been in the bungalow two years and sadly I lost him in October. I new I was not well but never had time to go to the Doctors. When I did I found out the reason I was in so much pain and could not walk very well was because I have oestoarthritus of the spine and hands, I have diabetes and I have a left side bunch bundle block in my heart which makes me very short of breath and very tired I have still to be diagnosed for any further heart problems. My GP wrote and asked for a home assement because I cannot get to the centre to be assessed. It is too far for me on my own and I am too frightened of falling on my own because I have no balance. They are stil insisting I go to the centre and are ignoring my GP. I am frightened they will take the £71 off me I am already being threatened with Court because I cannot afford my water rates. I only have £30 a month left for food and housekeeping so I cannot afford taxis and I cannot walk to get to a bus does anyone have any advice to someone who is new to this vile and uncompationate system called the DWP.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 18, 2013 @ 1:20 am

  381. Hello Lin.

    They insist everyone goes to the centre, they don’t want to visit anyone because it costs them money.
    If your GP has gave you written support, then you are in your rights to stay put, but ATOS will keep insisting.
    There is no advice to give, you either stand up for yourself or not.

    So how badly do you want to stand up for your rights ? there’s no one to complain to and get help now because no one is interested in helping us, I’ve been trying to get help over the last three years, (and MPs don’t want to know, the media doesn’t want to know), and have received very little support from anyone, in fact the people who take my help disappear as soon as they get the information they want, and barring just a few people I never hear from them again.

    On some of the pages on this Blog I even get abuse from people who don’t agree on who I even vote for. The complete lack of support is getting us all down.

    All I can say is if you stick to your guns ATOS will capitulate eventually, but that’s up to you, as I said how badly do you want to attain your rights ?.

    To be honest I just feel like giving up and looking after myself now..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 18, 2013 @ 8:36 am

  382. I also have difficulty with any mobility even around the house, my Doctor also sent a letter into them to support the point that I wish some one at ATOS or some one that I speak to from the W&P would hopefully listen too, but it is falling on deaf ears time after time apart from my Doctor who can see my mobility problem when I go and see him, my Doctors surgery is not more than 50 yards from my front door and I dont need any transport apart from my friend who will drop me off outside the surgery and wait to pick me up again, I seem to have shot myself in the foot by going to the surgery even such a short distance.

    Anyway after many chats on the phone with ATOS it was agreed that they would supply a taxi for me to take me to the assessment and back home, that will have been a total cost of some £60.00.

    Should you be at the end of getting an home visit the only thing is to do the same as I did and get the taxi fare paid by ATOS.

    GL on what ever you do next.


    Comment by Anonymous — February 18, 2013 @ 9:08 am

  383. Thank you dwpexamination (answer to post 372). It’s a minefield of lies, form filling, waiting, worrying, appealing, telephone calls etc etc etc. But, at the moment, that is all we can do: support each other on forums like this, jump through the hoops, try and remain strong and, most important of all, never ever give them the satisfaction of grinding you down.

    Comment by Norma Roberts — February 18, 2013 @ 3:07 pm

  384. I was medically retired on grounds of ill health in 2002 I worked for 17 years loved my job but could no longer do it, due to fibromyalgia, , I was receiving incapacity benifit long term, up until this stupid goverment decided to invent ESA, I was put on the WRAG group contribution payed, bearing in mind over the years my health has deteriorated , chronic asthma, emphasemia, fibromyalgia , Diabeties type 2′. Gout, mycrovascular disease , under active thyroid, and am now awaiting a gastro bypass, due to high weight gain by long term steroids and medications, I appealed in sept/oct 2012 as was advised by my job centre advisor against the WRAG, I received a letter dated jan 30th stating they will send me for a medical and my esa payment will not change until a new decision is made,……then on 5th feb 2013 I receive another letter saying my ESA will stop on 5 th Feb as your only allowed ESA for 365 days, I phone them up to explain and ask what else can I claim as not fit for work, and because my husband works full time NOTHING……..was the answer, …….if they had answered my appeal sooner and made sure my medical is done before the 5th when knowingly my benifit would stop I wouldn’t be in this situation ………anyone out there has any advice I’d be very grateful………

    Comment by Maryliz — February 19, 2013 @ 4:32 pm

  385. I forgot to say I’ve had a face to face assessment and 2 phone calls from the advisor at job centre whilst on ESA, who advised me to appeal!,,, This is all so stressful and making me feel ill…

    Comment by Maryliz — February 19, 2013 @ 4:40 pm

  386. unfortunately there is nothing you can do, mine ended on 5th January and i have now sent an appeal in to the DWP but havent heard yet, i have complained to ATOS who witheld vital medical evidence from the DWP, i have heard from them and i have been told that they have been unable to get a copy of my ESA50 report which i dont believe for one minute. I sent my appeal recorded about 9 days ago so know they have it, if i dont hear within the next couple of days i will be calling them. I have also complained to my MP so may be worth you giving that a go, good luck, i think we all need it xxx

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — February 19, 2013 @ 5:08 pm

  387. Hi,

    i received a letter on January 26th, stating that i would be placed in a work related activity group, but due to me not feeling too well at the time, i could not make heads nor tails of it, so i thought that i would wait for my medical assessment with ATOS,

    But, my daughter read of the letter a couple of days ago, and looked online for me, and discovered that i will have to go and have interviews at the job centre, which will be nigh on impossible for me, as i suffer from social phobia and chronic depression.

    The letter also states that i can telephone Wrexham and ask for them to look at their decision again, but after numerous telephone calls to various departments, i have been told that this is not an option, and i need to send a letter and appeal form to Wrexham by the 23rd of this month.

    The vexing thing about this, is one person in the Bangor call centre told me to send the letter and form to my local jobcentre plus (Cardiff) but when i telephoned them to confirm this, i was told that they do not deal with the appeals and to send the letter to Wrexham.

    It seems to me that nobody at the DWP call centres, knows or cares what happens to people put in this situation.

    Comment by Marc. — February 19, 2013 @ 5:45 pm

  388. It’s utterly disgusting, the thing is there picking on the disabled people who finds each day a struggle without having to put up with being spoken to and treated like a child, Don’t these people realise its going to make ALOT of people ILL with the extra stress it’s causing. How are they getting away with it, .??

    Comment by Maryliz — February 19, 2013 @ 7:34 pm

  389. I’m afraid to say Maryliz but that’s what they want!

    Comment by Elaine — February 19, 2013 @ 8:15 pm

  390. They put you in the work related activity group without a face to face assessment ? is that what your saying ?.

    If so then write a letter (To the decision maker, Wrexham ?) and ask for a GL24 appeal form, and also ask for a full explanation why they can make that decision without a face to face assessment and without a written ESA85 assessment report from ATOS.

    Also mention that if ATOS recommended you should be in the WRAG then they must have indeed written an ESA85 assessment report, if this is true then I wish to see it, therefore please forward it to me so that I can properly compose my appeal to get in to the support group.

    Either ATOS sent the DWP a written assessment report (ESA85) or they didn’t send them one, you want to know one way or the other.

    So if ATOS sent them one then you want to see it to help your appeal, and if they didn’t send them a written report then how can they make a decision without one.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 19, 2013 @ 10:01 pm

  391. They’re getting away with it because we are not standing together, far to many people are getting their ESA or winning their appeals then disappearing and leaving it to the likes of me and the good folk on our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org to deal with…I wish people would realise that ATOS are never going to leave you/us alone, this is what we are all going to be looking forward to for the rest of our lives if we don’t gather strength in numbers.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 19, 2013 @ 10:12 pm

  392. Hi please can someone advise or help me, I was put in the wrag group last year i eventually after a 3 year fight got my dla care component. After 5 years of fighting on and off I once again won my appeal for esa which i had been doing this for 5 years i win the appeal 4 months later atos take it away, well april last year i won my appeal got my esa back for the 5th time then i recieved a letter 1 stating u have won your appeal back pay so much regular pay x amount then 2 days later i recieved a letter stating 1 year is up uyou are no longer entitled so i lost my esa. well for nearly a year now my husband and i have struggled now an old injury to my husband has returned and he will be recieving statutory sick pay from his firm as from next month, i am being told that due to his earnings from 2012/13 we are not entitled to anything except possibly half of my esa back due to him earning to much last year i am confused worried and have no idea how my husband my 11 year old and i are going to live I hope this is understandable i know its complicated but i think i have explained it in a short version.

    Comment by Karen — February 20, 2013 @ 8:55 am

  393. Hello Karen.

    Your husband is now receiving sick pay which means your joint incomes will be almost certainly be below the criteria, but as you say it’s very complicated and not straightforward at all, a lot depends on that joint income and maybe even savings.
    So you need to contact either welfare rights or the CAB as soon as possible to get professional advice on this as soon as possible, don’t delay.
    One thing though, do not accept anything the DWP tell you or accept any of their advice, they are compulsive liars and will lead you up the garden path, an independent legal advice centre, the CAB or welfare rights is the way to go.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 20, 2013 @ 10:24 am

  394. This has been enlighting I am on crouches have been for 19 years. Ihave got anti losing spondililus also I have had 6 knee ops and can’t walk very far because I get out of breath.Went for medical and got 6 points just for walking I told them I can’t lift anything over about 5 pound it pulls on my back they never put anything down for that.But what is this thing about moving a empty box for that is stupid a 2 year old can move a empty box,because I’m on crutches they came out with if you sit down can you slide along the table,I said yes but then they that you are fit for work I can only sit for about 10-20 mins then I have to get up and walk around.Then they asked about about my breathlessness how does that happen and what causes it I told that I can’t get enough oxygen because I don’t breath from my chest I breath from my diafram sorry about spelling and they never said anything else

    Comment by Gambler — February 20, 2013 @ 11:45 am

  395. Gambler.

    They are deliberately forcing you to appeal, they know you are unfit for work, they just don’t care, all they care about is their figures for the day.
    Go to our sister site and you can get all the help you need to appeal etc.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 20, 2013 @ 12:31 pm

  396. I was medically discharged from the borough council medical examiners, in around 2002′ The dwp decide to want to send me for a medical in a letter I received dated 30th jan 2013. Bearing in mind my 365 days being on ESA WRAG ended on 5th Feb, although they said in the letter I received jan 30 th my esa payments will not be affected until ive been assessed by the medical services,…..BUT they have stopped the ESA…… They should of made sure I was seen BEFORE the 365 days limit, …..how disgusting is that……….they know how to work the system unfortunately. I’m just a ordinary person like many of you out there, unable to work due to ill health and no one cares it seems, Can’t sign on as not fit for work can’t claim any help as hubby works full time, what a load of. ****. Now there on about the obesity population, why don’t they realise there’s many out there unable to afford to buy fresh fruit veg etc ect Especially when they take our money away from you, unlike them whose born with a silver spoon in there big mouths… GGGRRRR! Sorry but I’m so angry……..

    Comment by Maryliz — February 20, 2013 @ 6:48 pm

  397. i went for my esa triunal twice they have abjourned it one because they wanted my medical records and the second they never got the righ doctors for my notes so i am still waiting to see if i can get in the support group i have ptsd and spd

    Comment by Anonymous — February 20, 2013 @ 6:56 pm

  398. Hello “dwpexamination” if message #390 was aimed at me?

    Yes, it seems that they have placed me in a work related activity group without a face to face with atos,

    my daughter got me a GL24 form yesterday afternoon, which i filled out, and she said she is willing to go to any appeal on my behalf and act as my representative.

    I also enclosed a letter with the form, asking if they could look at their decision once again, i managed to get it sent off this morning in time for the lunchtime pick up, so hopefully it will get to Wrexham benefit centre by Friday.

    I shall let you know the outcome as soon as I get a reply..

    Comment by Marc. — February 20, 2013 @ 8:23 pm

  399. Maryliz.

    They’ve got it all sewed up in their favour, the only option for you was to appeal to get in to the support group where the 365 day rule doesn’t apply.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 20, 2013 @ 9:28 pm

  400. Anonymous…Tribunal adjournments are quite common and for all different types of reasons, I’ve had three adjournments in the past.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 20, 2013 @ 9:30 pm

  401. Hi Marc.

    Yes that’s what to do, you must get on to it as soon as possible.
    Let us know what they say please..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 20, 2013 @ 9:31 pm

  402. Yes Thankyou for your reply, good luck everyone!

    Comment by Maryliz — February 20, 2013 @ 9:48 pm

  403. Hi I have been told i failed medical on the 2nd feb i got appeal form but no medical docuements. I phoned them today and they said it is becasue i changed address they have stopped all monies. I never moved address i did not tell them this but they have sent my personel medical report to a unknown (to me address). I have been told someone will ring me. As i find i difficult to leave me home were do i stand. Is this not a data protection act failure?
    Any advise would be welcome. Thanks Tony

    Comment by Tony K — February 22, 2013 @ 1:49 pm

  404. Tony.

    It sounds as if they have got you mixed up with someone else, better to get it sorted as soon as possible, if you do not take some kind of action then they will do nothing.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 22, 2013 @ 3:18 pm

  405. You need to complain straight away. If you need help, see CAB. This looks like a very serious mistake.

    Comment by Anonymous — February 22, 2013 @ 4:29 pm

  406. i attended medical at atos 5 weeks ago i was asked if anything has changed since i filled in the book they sent me last year i said yes my kidneys had now failed and i was now on dyalisis 3 times a week in that case youshouldnt be here as you are not expected to work went through a sort of medical as i also have other problems and today 22nd Feb 2013 i recieve letter from dwp stating that i have been put into wrag for 2 years . I rang explained everthing to the young man who said i would have to appeal so waiting on paperwork to come through but this afternoon dwp rang me saying they knew i am unable to work but i still have to attend work related interviews or risk losing my benefits i pointed out when was i expected to fit this in as up at 5am for pick up to hospital then not home till 2 30 in the afternoon and next day so tired which is common side effect after reading the comments on here worried i will end up losing benefits any advice welcome thank you

    Comment by Imelda Pullen — February 22, 2013 @ 7:39 pm

  407. Hello Imelda.

    The DWP big shots are forcing everyone who is in the WRAG to attend work focused interviews even if they are appealing to get into the support group, if we refuse to attend then they threaten a loss of benefits.

    We have found that the work focused interview is a formality and is rather benign if you are genuinely ill, doesn’t last long and is as I said a method of satisfying the Government that they are trying to get help to people to get into work.
    Of course the reason why it is harmless at the moment anyway is because there is no work, and they know that badgering and harassing people like yourself is counter productive.

    That’s why the interview is short, some questions are asked about your past work experience, and whether you have a driving license, you will be informed that if you accept a job in the future you will be available for certain benefits etc.

    Once you have made contact face to face (explain beforehand any hospital appointments etc) and the work focused advisor sees how ill you are then they generally don’t ask you back.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 23, 2013 @ 7:28 am

  408. hiya the first meeting i had with esa people i got stuck in the support group money went up to £150 a week got a back date payment off £1500 i have severe mentle health problems also getting dla middle rate carers and low rate mobility the women i saw was lovely and help full maybe it cause i get dla they stuck me on it but i heard they was horrible people but i guess i rather had a good person or cause of my dla good luck in the future people

    Comment by clive dunn — February 24, 2013 @ 1:02 am

  409. It’s rare for an ATOS HCP to be lovely to your face and also give the right result as regards to your benefits.
    Thanks for that Clive, take care..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 24, 2013 @ 6:15 am

  410. Hi All
    I appealed to the tribunal regarding being taken out of support group esa and being put in wrag esa today received my letter with the decision notice can any tell me have i won or lost my appeal to be put back in to the support group esa this is the letter

    1. the appeal is allowed

    2. the decision made on 06/12/12 is set aside

    3..mrs ** is entitled to esa with support component
    in applying the work capability assessment 18 points were scored from the activities and descriptors in schedule 2 of esareg 2008

    4. no descriptor from schedule 3 of esa reg 2008 was satisfied BUT regulation 35(2)(B) OF THE ESA REG 2008 APPLIED

    5. the tribunal reached a different conclusion having regard to physical factors,on substantially the same facts

    please can some one tell me have i won or lost my appeal

    im finding it difficult to understand the outcome

    If I have won anyone know how long it takes before I will be backdated payments had no money since Nov 2012

    will i get a letter from esa payment team ??

    Thank you in advance

    Comment by ang — February 26, 2013 @ 1:12 pm

  411. Hello Ang.

    That’s great news, the tribunal are telling you that your appeal is allowed, therefore you have won your appeal and they have granted the support group.

    What will happen next is the tribunal will send notice in writing quite quickly to the DWP that your appeal is allowed.

    The DWP will drag their feet (They claim they are busy, but not to busy though to inform you within a week if you lost the appeal) and send you notice by letter around six weeks from now, it will say that you are entitled to the support group of ESA and you will be credited all the backdate money they owe you in to your account.

    Good luck for the future.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 26, 2013 @ 2:45 pm

  412. Hello Joe
    Thank you very much for your info :)….i really didnt know what was happening….I hope they dont drag their feet too long not had any money off them since mid Nov :(

    Comment by ang — February 26, 2013 @ 2:51 pm

  413. you won takes about 6 weeks to get money

    Comment by steve — February 26, 2013 @ 4:16 pm

  414. Hi,

    I was just wondering if anyone knew the outcome of the Judicial Review of the work capability assessment which was heard on the 15th January this year? I keep scanning the internet but cannot find the information.

    Thank you

    Comment by Norma Roberts — February 28, 2013 @ 2:23 pm

  415. You’ll find it on our sister site Norma, any problems just ask someone on the general discussion page of the site.

    Comment by dwpexamination — February 28, 2013 @ 3:33 pm

  416. Hi, i worked for the DSS/DWP for 20 years was medically retired by them in 2008 after me struggling to work and reducing my hours over several years. with my esa50 i sent 3letters from 2 consultants and one doctor stating i was not likely to ever work again . i have just received info stating i am in WRG isn’t it ironic i am able to work just not for them!! Should i go to the papers?!

    Comment by Jozie — February 28, 2013 @ 6:05 pm

  417. Omg! How ironic, is that legal!
    To say someone who works for you is Medically unfit and let them go and then say they are fit for work under new ESA guide lines!!! Seriously, I would seek advice from CAB or get fixed fee visit with a solicitor.

    I wish you all the best in your endeavours with your situation.

    I have worked all my life and have only taken leave to have Both my daughters. I’ve had 2 Total knee replacements and am waiting for surgery on knee again and have been told I’m fit to work too. I appealed and won. I get my stamp paid and that’s it.
    I don’t have a meal every day and most days am hungry, can’t sleep because of the stress it’s causing.
    Good Luck with your situation and I hope it goes in your favour

    Comment by Sue — February 28, 2013 @ 6:22 pm

  418. Hi Jozie – I would definitely go to the papers if I were in your position. It’s disgraceful!

    Comment by Elaine — February 28, 2013 @ 6:28 pm

  419. Yes, go to the papers

    Comment by Anonymous — February 28, 2013 @ 7:09 pm

  420. Thanks for your support and comments, i will appeal and may even write to my MP who is conservative if i thought it would help them stop picking on the disabled and vunerable. it really upsets me and is so stressful filling in forms to justify your existence!!

    Comment by Jozie — February 28, 2013 @ 7:58 pm

  421. Jozie….Write to Sue pollard of the Daily mail, I know I know the Daily mail are dross, but she is an exception, she has a relative who has been stitched up by ATOS and the DWP and she can see through all this nonsense.
    The Scottish Daily record and the Daily mirror are both sympathetic, the more letters they receive concerning ATOS/DWP corruption the better.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 1, 2013 @ 7:45 am

  422. need some help went for a medical assessent july2012 iv never seen report what points i got anyway, got letter in august 2012 to say i had been put on esa contribiution based had operation in august then went in september to dwp saw a lady who said she didnt want to see me till march 2013 and why hadnt i appealed when being put into esa work related i said i didnt no i could do but she said it was to late and she would see me next year
    out of the blue received a text on my mobile to attend a work programme march 2013 which was so unexpected as was waiting to hear from dwp again , anyway phoned y so called advisor who basically told me i was on a work programme and i had to attend i i was not seeing her again i have been ill since 1995 and was on incapacity benefit i dont no what to do so ill at moment frightened about work programme what if i dont go what happens should i phone dwp lady again to see what to do can i appeal even though its been to long help

    Comment by stressed — March 6, 2013 @ 9:41 pm

  423. You should have appealed, and can still do so, it will be treated as late, but you have good reason you need to explain your stress anxiety depression operation, and that you were misinformed by dwp etc, best thing is to get help from a good advice centre/cab to explain. The dwp does not have many experienced staff anymore, so i would not ring them unless you have to, or get advice centre to do it for you, as they ask the right questions.
    Hope you can get the right help.

    Comment by Jozie — March 7, 2013 @ 8:42 pm

  424. I suffer from osteoarthritis in my neck, lower back,hands and knees,i also have duprytrens consticture which has put my toes on one footinto a claw this also affects 7 of my fingers i was on IB for 4 years had my medical with ATOS and scored 0 points the whole reports was a lie from start to finish ,i appealed and won scoring 21 points but put in WRAG but then for 5 months my Tribunal papers got lost no one would look for them in desperation i contacted my MP Dominic Greaves he was fantastic within 2 days of him writing my paperwork was found i had a letter of apology from DWP, compensation, a phone call from the CEO office and was told to apply for supprt related so i did, i was turn down flat then 27th Dec a letter to say they had stopped my ESA,I had by now been fighting for my rights for 18 months and was going to have to start all over again,i got to the point i just wanted to go somewhere quiet and pop all my pills ,i have now been put on antidepressants, the goverment and it rules have bought me to this,i have worked all my life i have 30yrs NI stamps i am not a benifits cheat i have paid in for the right to claim this help soon it will be the same for my DLA when it changes to PIP, the goverment ought to be ashamed that it has bought people like me and i am ssure i am not the only one to the point of suicide.NOBODY WANTS TO KNOW

    Comment by sue — March 8, 2013 @ 9:17 am

  425. They are forcing us all to fight Sue, it’s not a case of you and them, it’s us against them.
    It’s not to late to learn your rights and be ready to know what to do when the worst happens http://www.dwpexamination.org
    Of course if you would rather go it alone then that’s your prerogative, ME…I’d rather get all the help I can..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 8, 2013 @ 11:10 am

  426. Re comment 415 ,Thank you, I’ll have a look on your other site.


    Comment by Norma Roberts — March 8, 2013 @ 11:16 am

  427. Help! I’ve been put in the WRAG on ESA, but it’s too late for me to appeal as it’s been two months. I thought it would be okay but after my first interview I’ve become very suicidal. I suffer from social anxiety disorder and servere depression. I have to go to an induction soon and it’s making me even more suicidal I really would rather kill myself than have to go through the stress. What can I do, if anything? They don’t realise people like me with extreme depression and social anxiety can’t do these sort of things, they are making me do just what causes me problems, it’s like asking someone in a wheelchair to run, okay not that bad of course no offense intended but you see what I mean. I will just have to not go and they stop my benefit and just live on the streets or something, that seems somehow more bearable.

    Comment by Wayne — March 10, 2013 @ 4:29 am

  428. Hello Wayne.

    You can still appeal against being put into the WRAG, you can state extreme social anxiety as the reason for appealing late, you need to ask them for a GL24 appeal form so don’t delay, also get in contact with your local welfare rights or the CAB and get their help. You can also get help here Wayne at our sister site where there are people with your health problems.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 10, 2013 @ 5:05 am

  429. Hi folks. Do you know whether there is a problem with your sister site? Haven’t been able to access it today and had problems getting onto it on Friday …,was wondering if there is anything (deviously DWP related) stopping me as I have no problem with any other internet site. Am SO suspicious of DWP/Atos that I wouldn’t put anything past them! Cheers kate

    Comment by Kate — March 11, 2013 @ 9:01 pm

  430. Closed for some maintenance last night, back on today…Cheers.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 12, 2013 @ 8:40 am

  431. HI,had the dreaded medical with atos in october 2012 received decision feb 2013 awarded 9 points,sent appeal off, about 2 weeks later i recieved a telephone call from dwp and asked questions about my condition etc he said he would look at the decision again.Unfortunately i let rip and told him what i thought of atos and their so called hcp,anyway received letter yesterday informing me my appeal would not go ahead as i had been placed into the support group.What’s coming next i wonder?.

    Comment by RAY — March 12, 2013 @ 2:14 pm

  432. Well after contacting W&P some 3 weeks ago were they said they hadnt recieved the appeal decision that I had won and there decision was set aside she said that she would ask for some one to call me, no one did so I contacted them again on Monday this week, she said that the appeal decision was there but nothing else and she would get some one to call me, now this has been going on for over 2 months since my appeal was won, the tribunal had sent my appeal decision which I received only 2 days after the hearing and they also sent W&P the decision on the same day, it has taken W&P over 2 months for them to find the decision also after I contacted the tribunal explaining that W&P hadnt received the decision so they sent out another to them by post and one by fax, now this Monday I did get a call back from W&P, she went thro the info that she had and came to the conclussion in 2 minutes that I was owed from a date to another date and the money will be in my account within the next 3 days, jeez 2 months to get the decision and then 2 minutes to pay me what I am owed, yes its good now but 2 months to get it sorted.


    Comment by Anonymous — March 12, 2013 @ 3:49 pm

  433. Hi ray thats hat you want the support group i as placed in the wrag which means i am supposed to go for work placement

    Comment by sue — March 12, 2013 @ 6:49 pm

  434. mine took 6 months and only when my MP got involved did they find my paper work ,i will not give up i will fight to the bitter end

    Comment by sue — March 12, 2013 @ 6:52 pm

  435. Graham.

    If you ever get that problem again you can shorten the time they get back to you a little, if you write them a letter say three weeks after you get the decision from the tribunal.

    You can inform them that you have won your appeal on such and such a date, and the reference number is such and such, since I intend to visit my GP shortly could you please confirm what the law says with regard to supplying your office with future medical certificates if an appeal has been set aside.

    This forces them to inform you that you do not have to supply them with a medical certificate since you won your appeal, your intention is to provide them with the tribunal decision REFERENCE NUMBER and get their attention as soon as possible.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 12, 2013 @ 10:08 pm

  436. Ray.

    Let’s hope it’s not another one of those dreadful letters from ATOS..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 12, 2013 @ 10:11 pm

  437. I’ve just had a letter from ATOS asking me to attend a medical. I had one in August last year so not sure why i need another one. Anyone have any idea why i need another one?

    Comment by lyn — March 16, 2013 @ 2:28 pm

  438. Hi lyn,

    People are asked to attend assessments as often as the DWP wants them to. For some this could be in 3 months time for others after 6 months it varies., I think the maximum time between assessments that I’ve heard of was 2 years. Sometimes I think it is based on the prognosis that the HCP states on the medical report, but then again it is the DWP that calls the shots.

    Comment by Norma Roberts — March 16, 2013 @ 5:07 pm

  439. Thanks for the reply Norma. I am in a WRAG so not too sure if that has anything to do with it. they wrote to me to tell me that my ESA will come to an end in July but that was about it. The meetings i have had with the person from WRAG have been a complete waste of time and i wonder if that is why.

    Comment by lyn — March 16, 2013 @ 5:51 pm

  440. They did the same to me once i wrote to my mp and complained that this was just a stalling tactic and nothing has changed since my last medical they cancelled it

    Comment by steve — March 16, 2013 @ 8:33 pm

  441. The thing that really gets me is we are severely being victimise for being Ill if we didn’t bother to work we would get our stamp paid,free prescriptions,dental, and glasses being paid forplus get given money each week,and because I am ill even thought have worked all my life and have over 30years stamp paid I get nothing other than my stamp paid I could get more if my O/H packed up work to care for me where is my human rights I paid my own tax and NI why should it make any difference if hubby works

    Comment by Sue — March 17, 2013 @ 7:40 am

  442. It shouldn’t make any difference if your O/H works, but we under the control of a Nazi style Government at the moment, and that’s what the idiots who voted for them want..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 17, 2013 @ 12:50 pm

  443. Hi Les (comment 345 reply), no problem mate, I was letting off steam about unfair small-minded folk who think they are in some way better humans because they don’t have problems and clearly you are not one of those! :) I don’t know if you’ll read this but I thought I’d write it just in case you did so I could say that my comment was not aimed at you at all, I just jumped in with my comment after yours purely by coincidence. So, I’m sorry if it seemed like I was aiming my rant even slightly in your direction, I definately wasn’t, I only just read your comment actually. I have a lot of respect for people who care about other people’s feelings so I have a lot of respect for you. I really hope you’ve received your desision now and that it was favourable. I thought the ATOS doctor I saw was polite and well mannered and I was polite and well mannered to her (although nervous as I have bad social phobia), unfortunately she was an absolute snake underneath. She did not listen to me at all and just wrote me off as fit to work, she even used the fact that I was polite and answered her questions as proof that I could cope well in a social situation which I can’t, she said goodbye and thank you and smiled, she told me ” I would have to wait for the verdict off the DWP I’m afraid”. All the way through she was scribbling her report, she was so attentive to her report that she didn’t really listen to me at all about my problems and the polite act and snakeish behaviour were because from the start of the interview she was condemning me to purgatory like anyone else she thought she could stitch up for her blood money. I think those people in your assessment room should have had more respect for those around them but certainly not for the ATOS ‘Doctors’ as they call themselves, they are like the smiling Nazi sitting at his desk taking valuables off the line of people before him ‘for safe keeping’ while they take a shower, he’s also polite and efficient and seemingly benign for a good reason. Anyway, I really do hope your experience was better than mine and many others, it would be nice to know that there was at least one fair ATOS asessor out there and one less person going through this hell. All the best mate.

    Comment by Anonymous — March 18, 2013 @ 4:46 am

  444. HI Les.

    Comment 342…Well have you seen your ESA 65 followed by your ESA 85 yet Les, I’m still waiting, or was it a complete waste of my time asking ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 18, 2013 @ 8:33 am

  445. Hi again Lyn,

    I assume you are on contributions based ESA? If that is correct then people like yourself who are in the WRAG can only receive contributions based ESA for 365 days, this is probably why yours is ending in July. Depending upon your circumstances and income/savings etc you may be able to receive means tested income related ESA.

    As regards your meetings with your personal advisor being a waste of time I think most people in the WRAG would say the same, but this has nothing to do with you being asked to attend another medical.

    My contributions based ESA ended in January this year. I have no savings and do not have a partner, but I do have two small private pensions. The full amount of these pensions is deducted pound for pound from my ESA. I only had 2 meetings with my advisor in over a year, neither of which was any help whatsoever. I have to attend another Atos assessment soon (I have no date as yet) so it’s of we go again!

    I am 58 and, because of the recent changes to women’s retirement age, cannot retire until I am 66. My illness is progresive and incurable so I will be on this merry go round for another 8 years!

    Never mind at least I’m serving some purpose, each time Atos assess me they will get paid so I’m keeping them in a job and earning them some money! (sarcasm)

    best wishes

    Comment by Norma Roberts — March 18, 2013 @ 12:40 pm

  446. one bit of advice i was given may help some of you Firstly years ago when a woman went back to work after having kids they paid half stamp that wasnt taken into account when your pension forcast was done new law now takes that into account so get yourself a new pension forcast as i was told if you have enough stamp paid for a full pension now and the ESA are only paying the NI stamp tell them to stuff it then you have no medicals no restrictions

    Comment by Anonymous — March 18, 2013 @ 8:34 pm


    Comment by steve — March 18, 2013 @ 10:20 pm

  448. Steve…some people are puzzled when they are asked to attend an examination at ATOS and they no longer receive sickness benefits. And the reason why they demand one attends is because the DWP pays their national insurance stamp.

    But if you have paid enough national insurance stamps throughout your working life – 35 years worth ? – then you can instruct the DWP that since you no longer receive ESA etc and you have accrued enough stamps over the years to entitle you to a full state pension, theN you can tell them you will not be attending and so they can STUFF IT.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 19, 2013 @ 6:55 am

  449. put much better than i did thanks only at mo it is still 30 yrs will become 35 in 2017 i think it is thanks

    Comment by Anonymous — March 19, 2013 @ 8:20 am

  450. re 448 thanks for that now i understand and i am in fact in that position esa stopped after 365 days but have been asked to attend medical i told them to get stuffed before i knew about this but great to know i have made one up on them cheers for the info.

    Comment by steve — March 19, 2013 @ 9:24 am

  451. Yes wasn’t to sure if it was 30 or 35 years. I suppose the DWP claim they keep paying the stamp is to keep a constant flow of customers for ATOS.
    Of course the ones who are getting the stamp paid but not receiving benefits will not be included in the yearly ESA sickness benefit figures.
    Then Iain Duncan halfwit can stand up in parliament some day wave a piece of paper around and exclaim ‘Look…we have rooted out so many sickness benefit scroungers last year’.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 19, 2013 @ 3:37 pm

  452. I’v had a call from the ESA today they stop paying me from today coz they sed I did not scoore no ponts no atos r wankers I’v got all the medical evidence to say I have extreme back pane I’m on zomorph 100gm 2 times a day I’m not sleeping on a night coz I can not get cunfey I’v all reedy on ainty depressions 60 GM 2 times a day and sum time went I’v in a lot of pane I’v got demazepan I’v got a job but at the mo just can not do it dap tack my tax but when my ill they just do not what to pay but if I co e from Europe to the uk the never pay tax I got a hand out its a JOKE

    Comment by Anonymous — March 19, 2013 @ 11:39 pm

  453. I was placed in the Support Group of ESA on 18/11/11 and was awarded 3 years. What happens when my award ends 18/11/14?

    Comment by Joe Logan — March 21, 2013 @ 12:40 pm

  454. Hi Joe.

    When your award ends you will almost certainly find a white envelope on your doormat one day from ATOS don’t care, it will invite you to attend one of their examination centres to be assessed for work.
    Just before 18/11/14 with a bit of luck, Cameron and all his cronies in the cabinet will be involved in a plane crash, and a new election is called.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 21, 2013 @ 1:59 pm

  455. Hi,
    Just want to share some good news and hope for others going through this miserable process. Was assessed for WRAG ,no medicals, in February,2013 after migration from incapacity benefit(15 years).Iodged an immediate appeal Got mandatory letter for job centre work focused interview yesterday, attended and was told that I have been moved into the support group, no tribunal.
    My condition is bi polar, and anxiety related problems which are stress triggered.
    It’s been a huge worry not knowing how I’d cope with all the possible changes.
    The Employment and Support Allowance regulations 2008,reg 29b and 35 quite clearly state that if there is a significant risk to a persons
    health, then they should not be placed in the working group
    My message is don’t give up, APPEAL, and quote the regulations which are being breached. .

    Comment by Lorna B — March 23, 2013 @ 1:30 am

  456. Thanks Lorna…we have known for a long time that the DWP have been trying to conceal from the public the fact that ESA regs 29 and 35 even exist.
    Don’t rest on your laurels because ATOS can be back anytime so get yourself fully prepared for the future, exercise your legal rights to be informed http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 23, 2013 @ 6:22 am

  457. i was diagnosed with a grade 3 agressive hormone positive in june 2007, i had no choice besides an mastectomy, i also had to have my lymphnodes removed, and within a year i had had 5 operations, the following year, i had the same on my other side, so same surgery again, then after a non related cancer operation i had a minor stroke, that has left me with weakness on my right side, and memory problems, two years ago, due to the awful surgery i had first time round, i had bilateral reconstructions done again, they had already used my back muscle originally, they changed the saline implants for silicone for me. i then, after having a colonostemy discovered that i had developed a rare disease called lymphochytic colitis, this causes chronic diaerrhea, and as its like water, well, i have many accidents and have to plan any journey very carefully. i also have lymphodema in both my arm pits, and in my right arm, so i have to wear compression garments. in early november i got a letter out of the blue telling me that my ESA had stopped, no reason as to why, i didn’t even know i had been put in the working group, when i questioned it i was told tough luck. i take over 20 prescription tablets a day, i have been on a steroid drug for cancer for the last five years, i have two lung nodules that have recently been discovered and will have to be monitored, at just before xmas, i had a prolapse of one of my verterbra’s in my spine, at the moment i am on 75mg patches of morphine that i change every 3 days, and i have 30 mills of oramorphe every 4 hours, along with paracetomol and all my other drugs, last thursday after an xray of my spine, i was told that i had a fracture in my 5th lumbar, and the future is very uncertain as to how my spine will respond to treatment after all the steroids i have had, i am now just 50 years old, i worked all my life prior to diagnosis, i could not even get DLA, now, well, i get nothing, i do not have any hopes for getting anywhere with my appeal even though the Macmillian advisors are helping to support me. they put me in the working group, even though two shots at permitted work had not worked for me, people who comment on immigrants are quite right, my husband and 3 children all work full time, as i did, but it seems to me your better thought of if you never work at all. this is a very sad country we live, they make it hard for us, knowing that our pride will get in the way of ever being thought of as a scrounger. shame on this country

    Comment by alison — March 25, 2013 @ 9:11 pm

  458. I went to my appeal hearing yesterday and after 15 months in the WRAG group (money stopped in January) I’ve been moved to the Support group. I have had so many sleepless nights over this which has made my condition worse and they didn’t tell me yesterday but I got the letter this morning.
    I know that I may have to wait for the money to restart which is a worry but that is minor compared to the trauma of the process I have been through.
    To others in the same position, keep on fighting and I hope you will get the result I have but why should we have to fight?

    Comment by Cathyp — March 26, 2013 @ 12:00 pm

  459. You shouldn’t have to fight, but this is the real world now, welcome to the hell that’s Cameron’s Britain.
    But helping others actually helps you in the long run, that’s why I advocate everyone visits our sister site and help the best they can.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 26, 2013 @ 12:17 pm

  460. My brother has a rare neurological illness, and another rare illness, which requires him to spend three days in hospital for treatment every five weeks. He was retired from work on health grounds aged 42. He has physical problems from his illness and his treatment causes side-effects. He was assessed for ESA, without a face-to-face assessment, scored 15 points and was placed in the WRAG despite the ATOS assessor stating he is unlikely to return to work in the future. As he was on contributory based ESA, this ceased after a year, resulting in added stress. Our local CAB advised him to withdraw his appeal, which he did without consultation, despite gaining 15 points. When he attended his work-focused interview the DWP adviser stated she felt he would have won his appeal had he pursued it. We are now waiting for a hearing for an appeal, after we were able to resurrect the appeal. The fact he was place in WRAG is an indication that DWP has decided he is unfit for work and the ATOS HCP concluded he was unlikely to return to work in the future, therefore, how can someone under such circumstances not be placed in the support group, bearing in mind the regular hospital admissions?

    Comment by Anonymous — March 30, 2013 @ 5:14 pm


    Comment by stevenlumley5915 — March 30, 2013 @ 5:43 pm

  462. The same has happened to me, found out last week that i had a fracture in one of the verterbra in my back, but will they rush on with my appeal to be put back on ESA but this time in the support group, will they hell as like. This is what you get for working all your life, get a life threatening illness that leaves you with loads of problems, well, you may as well not exist, they stopped my money in early November, no warning at all, like your brother, i did not appeal at first, but since i have been near enough bed ridden since early Dec due to back problems (that are due to steroids in drugs for cancer), and am now up to 75mg morphine patches, and oromorphe for break through pain, as well as the cocktail of drugs that i have been taking for the last 5 years, well, i thought, bugger you lot, so i have a macmillian dept adviser who works alongside CAB helping me and representing me, i also have occupational therapy and social services on my side, but only time will tell, and i should think this is going to take a very long time indeed.

    Comment by alicamera — March 30, 2013 @ 8:31 pm

  463. i also think that i may well get in touch with my local MP and see if he can help in anyway, how many cancer survivors do we have in this country under the age of 65 years, i bet its a hell of a less lower than type 2 diabieties, or alcohol related problems, this is so bloody unfair when you have worked, maybe it was the stress of having to get any extra job you could whilst the interest rates on the mortgage was over 15%, oh how we have been screwed in this country!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by alicamera — March 30, 2013 @ 11:34 pm

  464. and just to say, its not just the DWP that take their time, the hospitals do as well, i have been on morphine since mid December, i can no longer drive, my memory is shot, the doses have gone up nearly weekly, i was admitted to hospital last week to have a pain team try to help with the pain relief, never saw them, now, being a cancer patient, and having a very strong family history of cancer, well, i always felt that morphine was the eventual road to nowhere, i am actually on more morphine a day, than my mother was on over 25 years ago for terminal cancer. neither my husband or i can understand why i have seen so many people, and not had any concrete advice on where i go from here, i had a ct scan and will get the results on the 25th of April, during that time i shall spend over 75% of my time writhering in agony, as i can not up the morphine any more unless its in a hospital setting with monitoring, life is very difficult, all i want is to feel pain free, and live some sort of normal life, cancer robs you of so much, most people have no idea what it does to you.

    Comment by alicamera — March 31, 2013 @ 1:04 am

  465. Hello Anonymous.

    He was placed in the WRAG because they don’t want him – or anyone else for that matter – to get in to the support group, and they have the power to do it.
    Because the DWP management have been instructed by that criminal Iain Duncan Smith to order everyone to be placed in to the work related group, especially if they are on contributory ESA.

    So why the CAB advised you/him to withdraw his appeal is totally incomprehensible (Beware of Tories masquerading as CAB advisors) to me.

    By the way it’s not how many points one gains to get the support group, 15 points get’s ESA, but the support group award has certain criteria as well, so go ahead with the appeal and win, if not then you have absolutely nothing to lose.
    The panel will not take away his existing ESA because he has the proof that he is totally unfit for work.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 31, 2013 @ 9:03 am

  466. alicamera.

    Don’t forget, even if it takes a long time to win your appeal, you will be another winner and they will be losers, and also don’t forget the money they owe you will all be backdated.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 31, 2013 @ 9:07 am

  467. And every complaint to your MP has an impact, they might look to us as if they’re not listening but they are I can assure you.

    Comment by dwpexamination — March 31, 2013 @ 9:08 am

  468. Everyone should read Clause 99 of the Welfare Reform Act 2013 -No right to first tier appeals ( no legal aid ) .Reading this clause in full should put the fear of Christ into all of us

    Comment by Joe Logan — April 1, 2013 @ 8:52 am

  469. Well maybe Christ will help us by resurrecting himself today Joe, and start that help by having a word with one of his so called followers ‘Mr Iain Duncan Smith’ about his insidious clause 99 and the rest of his draconian welfare reforms.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 1, 2013 @ 9:28 am

  470. Sorry but I have read this forum since it the first post and all I see is a pack of want something for nothing scroungers who claim they cant work for stupid reasons yet the rest of us have to go out and work with a bad back or aching knee or even LOL personality disorders you wasters who have been refused ESA scream that ATOS is unfair well your wrong my son is genuinely disabled unlike the majority of whiners on this forum ATOS asked for a f2f meeting with Lee we told them they would have to come to us which they did and the doctor gave Lee a proper medical examination the result was never unclear to me he was placed in a support group BTW I go to work for a living I don’t rely on the state to pay my way and I reckon 90% of the whingers on this forum are simply lazy people who want something for nothing

    Comment by Titan — April 1, 2013 @ 11:24 pm

  471. Was wondering if you would be on here having a groan if your son was put in WRAG group?

    There are people who don’t want to do a days work and say they suffer from illnesses they have not got which unfortunately bears it mark on the long term sick, disabled and short term sick, that genuinely need support and help.

    I am married with 2 grown up daughters and had 6 months off maternity with each.i have worked full time from 15 yrs to 54yrs and have had to take time out due to crippling osteoarthritis to have 2 total knee replacements and during this time was told I was fit for work and had to appeal. My surgeon told me if I did not take time of work I would be in wheelchair not able to walk. I will be going back to work after physio and recovery and I cannot wait to get back to getting a days pay for a days work.

    Never again do I want to go through the degrading treatment I recieved and the stress I went through with the appeal and the worry and pain of both surgeries!

    And I hope you stay fit and able to work and never have to temporarily claim from Dwp!

    Comment by Sue — April 1, 2013 @ 11:47 pm

  472. re470 im sure there are people who are trying it on but they are found out pretty quick seeing as someone with a genuine disability finds it hard to get any help but they are in a small minority i have worked since i was 16 im now 56 i spent 12 years in the army and have never been out of work i paid all my dues tax and insurance then i get struck down with fibromyalgia i did not ask for it lost my 38,000 a year job and lost my house when i needed it after paying INSURANCE nobody wants to know and finger pointing arsoles like you moan that you go to work well so did a lot of us we dont just deserve the support we have earnt it buy paying our way.if you dont like what you see on here dont fucking read it.

    Comment by stevenlumley5915 — April 2, 2013 @ 12:11 am

  473. Titan.

    What you have said is absolutely appalling, and I’m with Sue and Steven all the way on this, it’s obvious you are totally clueless to what’s going on out there, just clueless, and I can see after reading your post that you are a deluded fool who understands nothing about ATOS the DWP or this horrible Governments intentions towards us.

    Just because your son was granted a face to face assessment (It’s not a medical by the way, which shows how much you know) and was subsequently awarded the support group is not because ATOS are nice people,
    It’s because of Blogs and Forums like this and the hard work of people like Michael Meacher MP, Tom Greaterex MP, Sou poulton Journalist and Owen Jones Journalist, and many others who have and are at this moment speaking out against this cruel system, so you get yourself back on here and get on your bended knees and kiss the asses of those people you have the temerity to insult , you miserable excuse for an Iain Duncan Smith apologist.

    It’s people like you who are perpetuating this misery and doing this Governments dirty work (SHIRKERS/STRIVERS) for them, you are a scumbag who cares nothing for others, who claims to be ill and have a job and looking after a disabled son but has plenty of time to scour forums and Blogs to find something to whine and moan about, a curtain twitching shitty assed nosy Parker WHO ALL THE NEIGHBOURS HATE as well no doubt.

    And for four years I’ve been listening to morons like you, and been nice to them, well that’s over, I can no longer be nice to trash like you any longer, because not only do you just not get it, you are totally incapable of absorbing any information that’s not in the Daily mail or the Sun or the Express.

    Well do you know what TITAN (which you certainly are not), I don’t believe you have a disabled son, I just refuse to believe it because anyone with a disabled relative understands this dreadful situation and has sympathy for others in the same boat, so what have you done for others lately scumbag ?.

    Why don’t you read this article from the Guardian, it explains assholes like you to a tee

    I will say no more because reading the crap you talk is excruciating, this article if you are capable of absorbing what it says into your thick skull is all there is to say regarding people like you..!!


    And you can wade yourself through this comment from the same article above as well, not that you’ll bother reading any of it, but I don’t want you to say I didn’t show you some examples of how wrong you are.


    31 March 2013 8:48pm

    @exiledlondoner –
    Indeed. Would they believe assessments should be tougher if they knew the truth? A tiny fraction:
    Man with terminal brain cancer told he’s ‘fit for work’


    Blind, half-paralysed man dies day after Atos stop his benefits

    Ex-RAF serviceman from Lincoln kept alive by portable machine has benefits stopped

    Man died while waiting for benefits saga to end

    A WOMAN whose disabled partner was found hanged is warning of the “devastating’’ effects of impending changes to disability benefits.

    Suicidal bi-polar ‘fit for work’

    Wansbeck MP shows Northumberland man’s suicide note to PM

    A “VULNERABLE’’ disabled man who took his own life felt pressurised by changes to the benefits system, says his partner.

    Atos scandal: Man found fit to work despite peeling bones

    The tragedy of Alice – How the Work Capability Assessment costs lives – its impact on people with mental health problems is more serious than Atos have acknowledged.

    Disabled man in ‘constant pain’ told he is fit for work

    Blind woman ordered back to work wins benefits battle

    Lung transplant patient’s benefits cash slashed from £130 to £21

    Grandfather from Carshalton Zan Marseilles told he is fit to work despite traumatic brain injury

    A forty-four year old former fisherman who has been suffering with Multiple Sclerosis for more than six years has been told he is fit to work, and not entitled to Employment Support Allowance.

    Fit to work Dad had heart attack

    Birmingham dad dies of heart condition after being ruled ‘fit for work’

    Demand for fairer benefits tests as two die

    You’re fit to work, benefits chiefs tell cancer patient

    My ill wife had to fight for benefits up until she died

    Benefits appeal woman Cecilia Burns from Strabane has died

    Get ready for work: what woman who needs constant care was told – Ruth Anim has learning difficulties, a heart problem and epilepsy. A work capability test by Atos said she should prepare for a job

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 2, 2013 @ 8:00 am

  474. I am appalled by the comment made by Sue. No matter whether there are ‘scroungers’ (as you put it ) or not, there are genuine people on this forum who are struggling big time to make ends meet, not knowing which way to turn, being screwed by this so-called Government which is corrupt to the core. Ivory towers comes to mind; as well as ‘I’m alright Jack!’
    My husband and I both suffer with mechanical issues – osteoarthritis, disc disease of the spine and herniated discs in my own back which cause a lot of pain. I do what I can, and work through the pain as much as I can, but for someone to ‘lump’ genuine people under the the titles of ‘scroungers, whingers and lazy people’ is way way below the belt and we are very sick of it!!
    For us who once worked all the hours that God sent us but through no fault of our own have either been made redundant, or through genuine illness or disability have found ourselves in the clutches of the benefit scheme, none of us, I repeat NONE of us, wish to be here!
    We did not get up one morning and say, “Right! I fancy being lazy from now on! I think I would really like to become a scrounger or a whinger, and live on a measly £52.00 per week (which incidentally is what my husband is given-AND have documents to prove it, before anyone jumps in and says that’s a lie!). Seems so much better to me than working!”
    Anyone who would consider that, is off their nut!!
    Both my husband and I were once professional people before my husband fell ill, and because I lovingly cared for my mum for nine years (without any benefit to me- except hard work and times of heartbreaking moments seeing her disabled, until she died), we stood on our own two feet; had money in the bank, had a car, were able to live as opposed to surviving. Who would want to replace that for what we have now?? We are in poverty…I don’t be want to be here….and I do all I can to rise above it, with great difficulty.
    For someone to have the audacity to air such cruel opinion as the one I am replying to, needs a reality check.
    Oh yes, and as dwpexamination states, ATOS is NOT a medical it is an assessment. Do your research before you make any assumptions.
    For all the genuine folk – keep strong, keep fighting and do not let such comments wear you down (as I know they do – I’m sometimes there). Keep the chin up and let us not let this Governemnt’s corruption eat away at us. Keep standing folks!

    Comment by Anonymous — April 2, 2013 @ 8:26 am

  475. The above should not have been anonymous, I forgot to sign my self in. I shall do so now, as I have nothing to hide!!

    Comment by Angela — April 2, 2013 @ 8:28 am

  476. Hello Angela.

    I do hope you meant TITAN rather than Sue ? this is what happens when we are in pain, we make mistakes that can cause offense to people we have no truck with but I’m sure Sue has worked out that it was a genuine mistake of Nomenclature.

    Sue did point out that there are scroungers out there, it’s true there are, but since the official figures are less than 1% of the total – so called welfare budget – is actually fraud then the scroungers as opposed to the genuine is no longer an argument, because those low figures are as high as the Government after fiddling could get it.

    And here is what the Government wants, it wants you and I to believe there are millions of fraudsters and scroungers, this suits them down to the ground, it wants you and I and other good people to fight amongst ourselves deciding who is a fraudster and who isn’t, it wants you and I to argue amongst ourselves who deserves benefits and who doesn’t, and it wants you and I to do their dirty work for them, when the Government sees this it warms their hearts, they rub their hands in glee shake their heads and say ”See ? there’s nothing you can do for them ”, they’re so busy scrambling for the crumbs from our table and fighting with each other, they don’t see what power they really have, which is to unite as one, so then from now on we will not be pulling the Governments hot chestnuts out of the fire for them, we will not be denouncing people we don’t even know, and we will not allow this Government and the last lot to divide and conquer us and have us squabbling amongst ourselves.

    I’ve allowed TITANS rant on this Blog (I could have deleted it on the spot) to show everyone that there really is fools like that out there, that actually believes everything the Government tells them, an unthinking automan who questions nothing, and obeys every order, just like the Hitler youth.

    This is not a time for arguing, this is a time for WAR.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 2, 2013 @ 9:29 am

  477. For SUE! My sincere …and mean sincere apologies for putting your name in my rant of a comment above meant for TITAN. dwpexamination, thankfully, pointed that out to me. The comment I made was definitely NOT intended for Sue at any cost. Very sorry for the error. Again, my sincere apologies.

    Comment by Angela — April 2, 2013 @ 9:34 am

  478. A video by Sue Poulton, surprisingly a Daily mail journalist, the only one Daily mail journalist worth listening too actually, and we should all watch it and absorb what it says.
    But I really want TITAN the automan above all to watch it – because it’s the whole truth and nothing but the truth – then sit down and shut up..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 2, 2013 @ 10:02 am

  479. Angela,

    Apologies accepted.

    Like you I felt I had to comment on Titans abusive comments and like steve I lost a food salary and my husband and I are just about managing to pay bills and mortgage. If only Titan knew what people have to cope with.

    Like Titan most of us worked all our lives until illness or disease took over and turned our lives upside down. I’m lucky as my disability is temporary and for a lot if people it’s permanent and some have illnesses that they are dying from! And they DO NOT deserve to read Titans uncaring bigoted thoughts.

    Whilst I was having my 2nd knee replacement my friend of 22yrs was in ward opposite me having her breast removed as her cancer had come back after 3 yrs, we don’t know if she’ll make it but like me she worked all her life and is taking time to get her health sorted. She has had to go to appeal also.

    Lets hope that Titan has the fortune to spend his life never having health issues and able to work or else the DWP will put him through the ringer the same way they have treated us!

    Comment by Sue — April 2, 2013 @ 12:06 pm

  480. I agree with you all Titan you dont know what you are talking about i too have worked all my life so has my husband i have 30 yrs NI and i have now found that i can no longer work i am in constant pain and i have been fighting DWP for 2yrs i got to the point a couple of months ago that i wanted to just go somewhere quiet and pop all my pills and never have to worry about the DWP again i no longer get any ESA just my stamp paid but with the help of some strong happy pills i am going to carry on fighting until it kills me or i do it myself but it is now a matter of principal i paid my stamps, I AM ILL,I AM NOT A WASTER OR A SCROUNGER and how dare you call me lazy,your son is obviously not ill enough where you have had to give up work to tend to him i am getting to that point my condition is deteriating will never get better and i will be in a wheelchair within a few years.So TITAN keep your biggoted views to yourself you ignorant excuse for a human being

    Comment by sue — April 2, 2013 @ 3:14 pm


    Comment by steve — April 2, 2013 @ 3:34 pm

  482. Thank you Sue, sincerely, for accepting my apology. I was reading where it says ‘comment by…’ one down from Titan’s appalling rant.

    Comment by Angela — April 2, 2013 @ 5:50 pm

  483. Is this Titan person real? how can he call people with chronic illness scroungers? i am glad i have found this site, as i already feel supported and inspired by some of the good news that folks have had, i too have my full compliment of NI for my pension, a pension that like a lot of people who have cancer at a young age, well, i may never see that pension, neither will my family. And now that my health is not very good, i am going to fight this appeal to the hilt now, its not a lot of money, but we still have the same bills to pay etc, just like any other family who have worked all their lives.

    Comment by alicamera — April 2, 2013 @ 7:47 pm

  484. Does anyone have any experience of ESA appeals centred on the issue of Regulations 29 and 35 – “exceptional circumstances”?. My partner received IB for nearly 10 years before failing an ATOS assessment in late 2011- we appealed and this was successful in May 2012 – with Regulation 29- but not 35- being granted. Partner has a number of physical problems but primarily severe depression and mood disorders and 29 was applied on the basis of this.However, this was for contributory ESA and the 365 day period ran out in November 2012 and no payments made since then – we immediately lodged an appeal which is due to be heard in 2 weeks. Have submitted various detailed documents and sought clarification of the difference between clauses 29 and 35 in practice and in interpretation.

    If appeal successful on 35 she would be placed in support group but the only difference in the wordings of 29 and 35 seems to be the reference to “harm” arising if not found capable for work or not found capable of work related activity. Matters have been confused in that having asked for clarification on the above DWP now seems to be saying that the benefit was not reinstated / back dated in June 2012 – ie directly after the successful appeal in May – on the grounds allowed by the appeal ie Regulation 29- but on some – as yet undefined- compliance with new mental health descriptors- whatever they may be?- again we have sought clarification on exactly what they are saying and the basis of this.

    Our thoughts on this generally are as follows:

    1) If the benefit was reinstated on grounds other than those allowed by the appeal- ie Regulation 29- why did it happen immediately following this and why were we not informed of this and why would they do this as opposed to accepting what the appeal said= otherwise what is the point of the appeal process?

    2) The difference in practice between 29 and 25 seems to us very limited and difficult to define.

    3)Though placed in WRAG partner was only asked to attend one job centre interview and no follow up “pathway” interviews were offered- impression was that by the time of that interview the “clock” on contributory ESA of 365 days was already running down and they had decided no prospect of her being able to work anyway -so they had limited interest in offering any assistance- but is everyone in WRAG not supposed to be offered 5 work related interviews anyway?.

    4) Re the suggestion that is sometimes made of claiming / being pressurised to claim JSA – even allowing for that being time limited to 6 months -surely someone in WRAG – who DWP say is not capable of work- as in my partners case- though they say they hope this might be possible in 18 months -incidentally not clear as to how they have come to this conclusion or medical or other evidence to support it – surely you could not claim JSA as a requirement of this is you are able to work and are actively seeking this?

    5) Have the mental health descriptors changed and if so when was this and how have they changed?

    Would be interested to know if anyone else has had similar experiences or appealed on these grounds and, if so, the issues raised and the outcome?

    The judge at the tribunal has sent a direction for someone for the DWP to respond on these issues / attend the appeal as this is all very confusing.


    Comment by Peter — April 2, 2013 @ 9:07 pm


    Comment by steve — April 2, 2013 @ 9:59 pm

  486. I was supposed to go for yet another medical assessment this morning at 11:05, had a phone call at 10:15 to say they were cancelling it due to them running behind. Good thing i hadn’t got on the bus. I asked why i was having to go for yet another one and the lady said she didn’t know as you dont’ normally have 2 unless you appealed. She said to ask at my local centre, which i guess must mean the job centre plus. They always claim they can’t help as they have no way of contacting Atos. I have been assured that my benefit will not be affected, but i’ll wait to see on that one. My ESA stops in July and i have no idea what happens then.

    Comment by lyn — April 3, 2013 @ 9:42 am

  487. Titan is probably a troll, notice he didn’t come back !! Every forum and Blog gets these types of weirdos.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 3, 2013 @ 12:38 pm

  488. Peter..Go to our sister site and log in and ask them, some of the members on there have experience of REG 29 and 35.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 3, 2013 @ 12:46 pm

  489. Just to give an example of the fact its always worth fighting these DWP gits i was placed in wrag in june 2012 following medical despite the ATOS nurse surprisingly stating that i had a severe disability in upper and lower body and stating i would not work in foreseeable future they still said i was fit for work.Got onto the ROYAL British legion who said they would represent me on appeal to get put in support group and letters to my MP which got sent to the DWP and my doctor who signed a regulation 35 form .Get phone call today place in support group with all payments backdated to last year.so fight the good fight people.

    Comment by steve — April 3, 2013 @ 2:53 pm

  490. I think Titan came on this site looking for information to help with his case for his disabled son.

    There are a lot of people in the world who only care about themselves and don’t care about others, I’m so glad that I’m not one of those type of people.

    I have gained useful info from this site but it also its reassuming to feel your not alone and get other people’s perspective.

    Comment by Sue — April 3, 2013 @ 4:55 pm

  491. Titan got all the information from this site to help win his son the support group, then instead of being grateful…turns round and bites the hand that fed him..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 3, 2013 @ 5:06 pm

  492. through all this having cancer, 12 operations after, then the side effects of hormone therapy for eostrogen positive breast cancer at grad 3, well, i am now five years past diagnosis, my back is fucked, so is my right side, (that i had a minor stroke on after an op under a general) i have awful problems with my spine, including degenerative disease of the lower and upper spine, then i have arthritis of the middle spine, and i have a fracture to the L5 vertebrae, and then i have a prolapse of the lower spine, its fuckin hunky dory for me lol

    Comment by alicamera — April 3, 2013 @ 9:41 pm

  493. Hello alicamera.

    After reading your explanation of your health problems as far as I’m concerned anything less than the support group of ESA is unacceptable in my book..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 4, 2013 @ 5:35 am

  494. I hope someone can help me make sense of what is happening to me. I had an atos medical in november 2012 and was moved from incapacity benefit to the wrag group, i appealed and was put into the support group in march 2013 and just 2 days later i received another esa50 form to fill in and now have to go for another assessment in two weeks time!!! I can’t believe that this is happening, what will happen now? I am fully expecting them to stop my esa as it feels as though they are out to get you no matter how long it takes them! If they put me back into the wrag group do i only get the payments up untill nov 2013 as that is when the original 12 months would end ? or do i get the payments for one year again? i am really confused. Also can they find me fit for work and stop my payments completely even though i am in the support group? Any information anyone can offer would be really helpful, my anxiety about this is starting to build and not knowing what they can do is making my mental health even worse.

    Comment by antony — April 5, 2013 @ 2:52 pm

  495. if you appealed and the DWP did not let the appeal go ahead because they reversed the decision in your favor and placed you in the support group then they have to backdate the money from nov 2012 unfortunately by accepting this money (when you get it) normally 6 weeks later your also accepting that it is if you were put in the support group in nov 2012 and therefore as they re-assess you whenever they like technically you could be due another medical in nov 2013 (a year later) if they are asking you to go to one earlier than a year refuse and write to your mp and ask him to complain on your behalf.

    Comment by Anonymous — April 5, 2013 @ 3:11 pm

  496. thankyou for your response, as i was switched over from incapacity benefit to esa i am still on the same rate of pay as i have always been, so nothing has changed there, i currently receive 110 pounds a week. I have tried to complain about being recalled for another medical 2 days after winning my appeal and they have told me that if i do not attend they will stop my benefit, which i can’t afford! So i will have to attend. If they put me back in the wrag group will i only get payments untill nov 13 or will i get another 12 months of esa starting from now. Still confused.

    Comment by antony — April 5, 2013 @ 3:25 pm

  497. Antony, you just appeal again.

    Comment by lyn — April 5, 2013 @ 3:29 pm

  498. Thanks lyn, i fully intend to appeal again but this is ridiculous, being called back for another medical 2 days after winning appeal makes you feel utterly hopeless. I just wanted to know the facts about what i would be entitled to and for how long if i was a)put back into the wrag group or b) if they stopped my benefits would i be entitled to anything while i appealed?

    Comment by antony — April 5, 2013 @ 3:50 pm

  499. if you get contributaion based esa then it will stop after 365 days following your first claim so will end in nov 2013 still complain they tried this on me i wrote to my local mp and he wrote to them and they cancelled the medical because if noting has changed since your appeal why the medical

    Comment by Anonymous — April 5, 2013 @ 5:37 pm

  500. thankyou anonymous, i have tried to complain and it didn’t get me anywhere, and now my medical is only two weeks away so it looks like i will have to attend otherwise they will stop my benefits. What i can’t understand is why do they bother sending you a form that takes you ages to fill in and then take absoulutley no notice of it whatsoever, they may aswell just send everyone an appointment for a medical if they aren’t going to take into account what people put in their form.I went to great lengths explaining my situation including that i had just won my appeal to be placed in the support group. If i ever have to fill in an esa 50 again i shall just tick the relevant boxes and wait for the medical appointment to arrive. Sorry for the lengthy rant, i’m so angry and frustrated not to mention anxious about the outcome as i really wouldn’t be able to manage financially if my esa was to be stopped. If they were to find me fit for work and were to stop my esa would i be entitled to anything while i appealed? many thanks.

    Comment by antony — April 5, 2013 @ 7:25 pm

  501. Hi,
    I had been on Incapacity benefit….
    Letter received, duly completed and sent off…
    Letter received from ATOS informing me of my medical assessment….August 2012
    Attended assessment, was seen by a HCP for all of 10 mins, and informed no other information was required.
    Finally received letter in November 2012 that I was being placed in the contributions based support group.
    Letter received mid March 2013 requesting I again fill in form I had done so previously !
    So far have heard nothing !
    Has anyone had the same happen to them ? or know as to why after only 4 months they are asking me to fill in forms again ?
    I contacted DWP to enquire as to why they are asking me to fill in a form I already did just 4 months prior, to be told its “routine ”
    I have never asked for my report and wondering if I should request it, and more to the point maybe I should contact them again to check they have received it, as this time I did not send by recorded post and contained my O. T. report for a D.F.G. and now panicked if its lost will cause me further stress with having benefits stopped.
    I wish I could return to work, sure beats the crap you have to put up with to prove you have an illness and disability, but all of this “protocol ” is bringing me down big time…….

    Comment by jilltreamer2007 — April 7, 2013 @ 6:22 pm

  502. Also…..
    If you are on Contribution Based ESA in the Support Group, do you still lose it after a year ?

    Comment by jilltreamer2007 — April 7, 2013 @ 6:24 pm

  503. you are doing slightly better than me went for 1st medical august 2011 scored NO point went to Tribunal score 21 points,put in WRAG,they lost my appeal result paper work and it took until october 2012 till they found it.December 2012 letter stopped money i had already appealed to be place in support group turned me down, now waiting to go to tribunal for 2nd time ,but the best is yet to come i had to go for another medical feb 19th they had to pay for a taxi to take and bring me home which when i looked into it was approx £80 each way AND FOR WHAT, TO DECIDE WHETHER I STILL QUALIFY FOR THEM TO PAY MY NI stamp that is now 2 years i have been fighting them but i am not giving up

    Comment by sue k — April 7, 2013 @ 6:47 pm

  504. Hello Jill.

    There doesn’t seem to be any rhyme or reason when it comes to ATOS sending out assessment letters, they don’t seem to have an efficient system in place, everything is haphazard and apparently – so I’ve been told – computer generated.

    People with real serious illnesses like lung cancer – diagnosed with six months to live – have been placed in the support group of ESA without a face to face assessment, and a couple of weeks later another white letter arrives from ATOS demanding they attend an assessment or else, you can see it’s crazy, and proves they don’t look upon people as human beings but more like cash cows.

    The answer to your other question is yes, if you are in the support group of contributory ESA the 365 day deadline doesn’t apply, that’s another reason why they are so keen to get through these assessments, which is to get you of it and on to the work related activity group (wrag) and therefore no longer entitled to ESA.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 7, 2013 @ 9:37 pm

  505. Sue…Glad to see your not giving up, we need to keep going and show as much resistance and opposition as we can.
    It’s not just rights to welfare, it’s the NHS as well, and like the domino effect there will be no end to it until the last domino falls, which will probably be something like a right to a fair trial.
    Already a secret law has just been ushered in where the police no longer have to tell anyone they have a certain person in custody, it’s a disgrace, the police can hold you in a stinking cell, tell no one and basically forget about you if they so wish.

    Make no mistake about it, we are on the verge of a Nazi state, if the Tories win the next election then god help us, the first thing they are going to do is withdraw the free bus pass for the pensioners, then they will take their fuel allowance, then they will reduce their pensions, all done piecemeal to lessen the shock, not that they care if the pensioners are shocked or not, but the Tories do like to keep up the semblance of an appearance for the sake of kidding us all on we are in a democracy.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 7, 2013 @ 10:05 pm

  506. Hi,

    Thanks for your replies, Sue, my god they have totally put you through hell and back, and fab to here you are not going down without a fight, not that they give a damn of the stress and financial strain they are putting people through. dwexamination, thanks for the info, least I now know what to expect….
    After reading through some of the comments on here, my heart goes out to you folks, that are having to fight for your basic human rights as that of a sick / disabled person, and is comforting to know there is help and support here.

    Keep up the good work.

    Comment by Anonymous — April 8, 2013 @ 10:50 am

  507. Thanks for that, it is hard but I can’t let them get away with it it has made me ill but it doesn’t matter what they say I know I can’t work and there is no way they are going to force me to do something that will make my conditions worse,

    Comment by Sue k — April 8, 2013 @ 11:36 am

  508. I’ve just got off the phone to DWP and the person from DWP was trying to tell me that they have never heard of a ESA 85 and asked me what a score sheet was, talk about getting fobbed off she eventualy agreed to request them for me

    Comment by Les J — April 8, 2013 @ 3:23 pm

  509. Well if what she says is true Les then she must be a newbie, just shows they don’t get trained very well.
    So I suppose it’s possible she is ignorant, let’s hope she passes your message on and you get the documents as quickly as possible.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 8, 2013 @ 6:25 pm

  510. Hello

    I have just had a chat with a long and I mean a long time friend who was put into the support group last May, he has just received a letter from boot strap that he has an appointment with tem next week.

    Now that’s ok I suppose being the situation regarding the problems that all seem to be having with this at this time, but he then went onto read me the details regarding should he not attend this meeting including his benefit will be affected if he doesn’t go, and if he cant go he must give a valid reason to not go.

    He must also take with him his latest CV, Now he mentioned that he has never had a CV in his life never mind his latest one again asking for things showing how he is trying to get back to work.

    They also say that they will do all they can to get him back to work, this is before they even seen his medical conditions of which are indeed severe.

    I asked him he was correct on what he had said and maybe hi is reading it all wrong being that you from what I understand that being in the support group it is obvious that you are not now or later in a fit state to carry out any work.

    Now he said that he has read it right and is really concerned about this being what will be happening at this meeting and are they asking for him to do to much at this time in finding him work that he wont be able to carry out.

    Any thoughts on this that may be relevant to his situation.


    Comment by Anonymous — April 9, 2013 @ 2:35 pm

  511. Hello Graham.

    He is not in the work related group, he is in the support group of ESA, this means he is not required to attend work focused interviews, he can attend them if he wishes, but as I said there is no requirement to attend.

    You will find Graham that the DWP work in mysterious ways, they are truly the most incompetent Government department ever known to man, they don’t just make mistakes occasionally which – let’s be reasonable here – we can all make, they make mistakes in continual perpetuity.

    It’s obvious they do not have an efficient system in place – that is not the DWP workers fault – but what is the DWP workers fault is that not one of them has the guts to say to their boss this is hopeless, we cannot cope, so can you arrange a meeting and we can sort something out on a higher level and make our system the best that it can be, because a lot of vulnerable claimants are suffering.

    So until they make their system more Germanic, we will have to put up with these idiots and their stupid – in some cases – life threatening mistakes.

    Your friend has no choice now but to write the DWP a letter and explain the reason why an attendance is not possible, stating his severe health condition and also the fact that he is in the support group of ESA. Do not mess around because the DWP are not in the business of offering second chances.

    Anyone who has worked for the DWP for any decent amount of time has been well and truly indoctrinated, there is no hope for them, brainwashed and unable to think for themselves, in other words a lost cause and unable to be reformed, there may be some hope for new DWP recruits, but the veterans truly are…beyond salvation.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 9, 2013 @ 3:11 pm

  512. Hi there i have been getting esa contributory allowance for 365 days and it has just ended i think ill be entitled to esa income related as my husband is my carer but what i would like to know is it the same process do you have to go for another medical etc and will i only get the assessment phase amount for 13 weeks or will they go off my previous forms and medical thanks

    Comment by allison — April 9, 2013 @ 11:29 pm

  513. Why not appeal and try and get in the support group

    Comment by Anonymous — April 10, 2013 @ 7:55 am

  514. I have posted before but just to let you know he who dares wins – was placde in wrag in may 2012 – appealed and lots of letter writing over a course of a year got my local MP to write a letter to them stating i should be put in support group also got my doctor to sign a regulation 35 form heard today been place in support group and £5,400 deposited into my bank account.There is hope people fight the good fight.

    Comment by Anonymous — April 10, 2013 @ 7:59 am

  515. Hello Anonymous.

    First of all congratulations on gaining the support group (Although gaining the support group itself isn’t something we would want to rejoice) and through your courage and determination your legal rights.

    Since you haven’t mentioned whether you were on Contributory ESA and it ended after 365 days and they placed you in the WRAG deliberately which ended your right to ESA, then I can assume that was the case and the reason why you were quite rightly retrospectively remunerated.

    For those of you out there who are entitled to contributory ESA please be aware that if you are assessed by ATOS the chances are the DWP will not grant you the support group whether you are entitled to it or not, the reason they grant you the WRAG of ESA is sneaky and not particularly obvious but the truth is your WRAG ESA will end after 365 days, whilst the support group of contributory ESA doesn’t end after 365 days, the DWP hope you will be satisfied with the WRAG becasue it says ESA on the letter they send you, but these criminals who are experts in the use of semantics and double talk deliberately give you the impression you are safe just because you have been found unfit for work and therefore entitled to ESA.

    Do not phone them and ask for their opinions on what your entitlements are because they all speak with forked tongues, and since anything they advise is almost never in your favour then I will leave you to draw your own conclusions. Find out in advance what you are entitled too and demand them politely either in letters or orally.

    I can give you one tiny example, I won an appeal, and around that time I was sent a letter from the DWP demanding I furnish their office with a sickline or my entitlements to benefits will cease, remember I have just won an appeal, so I phoned the DWP and reminded their representative that since I have just won an appeal there is no need to send them a sickline, the person on the other end of the phone insisted that I did have to send them a sickline, I asked him to speak to his supervisor and please get it clarified one way or the other, he came back and said yes Sir I can confirm you do have to supply us with a sickline even though you have won an appeal.

    Since I couldn’t get it resolved over the phone because either he was lying or more likely he wasn’t trained in their own regulations, I had to resort to sending the DWP a letter of explanation, if I hadn’t then all benefits would have ceased.

    So trust them not, find out your rights by study and boldly act on your knowledge when needed, you can make a good start by logging into our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 10, 2013 @ 9:12 am

  516. Hello Allison.

    They will treat it as a new claim, and if they find you are indeed entitled to ESA income related the new claim will be transferred over and you will be paid until they decide to assess you, that could be on the spot right away or some time in the future.
    No human being can predict what ATOS or the DWP will do next, they have no rhyme or reason or any kind of efficient system in place that can determine their next action/s with absolute certainty.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 10, 2013 @ 9:19 am

  517. Hello p

    Thx for the reply DWP to post 551 concerning my friend, he says that he be taken to see what is happening with his claim at this meeting, were it should be nothing of this proportion being in the support group, I will let you all know after his meeting because this could be another scam the W&P are trying to pull, further to yesterdays post he has also informed me that it is the bootstrap enterprises that will be his advisor from now on and like I said it states in the letter that it is a mandatory appointment and his benefit will be affected if he doesn’t go and they will do all they can to get him back to work including this, your advisor will help you to discuss the types of work you would like to do, we will help you to find suitable vacancies, apply for jobs and this is the best bit practise interviews, jeez my m8 cant get out of bed on his own never mind attend interviews, his medical statement from ASTOS reported that he will never in the near or later future be able to return to work again.

    Now this is the worrying thing concerning my ESA and that I was put in the WRAG group last June, my ATOS medical report stated that in his view I am not at that time have the necessary ability to return to work but should be in the next 12 months, no I wont be ready to return to work has I stated at the assessment that my conditions were in fact getting seriously worse and have even further since then, he could see from my appearance and that I was virtually unable to walk to his office and nearly collapsing only to be stopped by the wall but still went on with the assessment without any asks for bending stretching ect because he could see it was a waste of his time to ask me, he stated that then and there and with the other problems I have medically he said that I wasn’t fit for work of any kind but he still put that I may be fit for work in the next 12 months, I didn’t appeal because I think it would have been pointless at that time because how people with difficulties were being treated by ATOS and the W&P.

    Yes I should have appealed because I have now a letter from the same people has my friend boot strap giving me the same statement that I have to go it is mandatory and will do the same has they will do for my m8 exactly, what is going on here I am now in the same situation has I was before I was assessed has not being fit for work some 9 months ago, yes I can see that it is nearing 12 months as stated in the assessment but it isn’t 12 months no were near.

    I too will go to the meeting with bootstrap firstly requiring an explanation and if I am not satisfied and I feel that they are taking the p–s I will if possible make an appeal which ever way I can after such a long time.

    More and more I feel that W&P have set a trap for me 9 months ago to fall into head first, I will get back to you here after my appointment next Friday.


    Comment by Anonymous — April 10, 2013 @ 1:01 pm

  518. Graham.

    You have every right to be cautious, especially where your friend is concerned because unlike yourself he is actually in the support group of ESA where looking for work is not mandatory, and it’s great to see you are no fool and suspect they might be pulling some new stunt.
    Whatever happens please let me know when you find out what’s happening.
    Since your friend can attend these idiotic interviews if he so wishes, then the DWP or Bootstrap might insinuate or imply he gave them permission to call him for an interview, the DWP have no shame, these work providers have no shame either, any lie is allowed, no stone is left unturned in their search for new customers to exploit, it’s all about cash, and we are the cash cows.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 10, 2013 @ 2:32 pm

  519. Hi Allison, I’ve recently transferred from CB ESA to income based, I did not have to have another medical, but it took them AGES to sort out the money side of things. Just to let people know, if you have a work or private pension (including ill-health early retirement) they will deduct ALL of it from your ESA.

    Comment by Norma — April 10, 2013 @ 4:16 pm

  520. I have had my second assessment today, first was December 2011. The first medical report was a venture into the realms of fantasy, I lodged an appeal with the DWP and complained about the nurse to Atos. Atos admitted the report was flawed and the DWP reversed their decision, so I was lucky and did not have to wait months and months for an appeal.

    I requested that today’s assessment be recorded. When I first got there the machine would not work and I thought they were trying to pull a fast one. After several tries however the nurse (yes another nurse, do they actually have any doctors?) got it working and I now have a TRUE account of what happened. This time the nurse seemed more interested in what I was saying and asked more relevant questions regarding my agoraphobia, so now it is just a matter of waiting.

    The last time I was put in the WRAG I was receiving contributions based ESA and I was allowed to choose as to whether I had my interviews with jobcentre plus or the work programme provider. I am now on income based ESA and I am certain that providing I don’t “fail” I will be in the WRAG again. I have read on line that people on income based in the WRAG HAVE to go to a work programme provider, that you only have a choice if you are on contributions based, does anyone know if this is true?

    Thanks in advance

    Comment by Norma — April 10, 2013 @ 4:35 pm

  521. Hello Norma.

    I didn’t know you had a choice on contributory ESA, thanks for letting me know that, as far as I’m aware if one is on income related ESA and when they demand you visit them, then non attendance is extremely hazardous to your bank balance.

    I can tell you that I’m on income related ESA of the WRAG variety and any attendance for work related interviews was with JOB CENTRE PLUS.

    But like everything to do with the DWP and these poverty pimp so called work providers, there is no harmony.

    Everything is confusion, doubt, disharmony, and unadulterated chaos…………..god help us Norma.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 10, 2013 @ 5:13 pm

  522. Thank you dwpexamination. I’ll just wait and see what happens

    . It was just that previously when I had a choice between having to go see jobcentre plus or a work programme provider, I chose jobcentre plus because the guy I saw on the work programme was pushing me towards becoming self employed (so they could claim their £13,000.00!) I do not have a partner so mine is the only money coming in, so in the current economic climate I think starting a new business when you have no savings is a very bad idea.

    He was also very excitable and manic in his manner, I actually found him a bit scary! I have A level literacy and numerical skills and, at 58 years of age, have had a number of jobs, yet this clown was talking about help with my C.V, interview and people skills!? I kept saying I don’t need help in those areas I just need a job I can do from home because of the agoraphobia. The whole thing was a complete waste of time.

    Comment by Norma — April 10, 2013 @ 5:39 pm

  523. Norma.

    The reason he is so exited is because you might be his next bonus, what he really wants you to do is to use your own initiative and get yourself a job and then give him the credit and he can notch you up as another victory.
    If you do get a choice then the Job centre are the least of two evils, these work fare providers are just mercenaries, and in their heart of hearts know fine well there are no jobs.

    They have to talk to you (Usually in monologues), you get the job and they get the credit, it’s all a con..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 10, 2013 @ 8:44 pm

  524. Follow on from post 517


    After I posted the above post I got to thinking after reading the posts about certain companies being employed by the W&P to put in place a business venture were they are paid on delivery, ie getting the people on Job Seekers back to work say for 3k payment to them from W&P.

    After being put in the WRAG group I attended my appointment with advisor there who was supposed to be looking after me through the 12 months because that’s what they said, they hadn’t the go ahead to find me work at that time because I was already placed in the WRAG, but I was offered a college course until June this year, 1 day a week for 3 hrs, I explained the problems I had and said that I would have a go and see if I can cope with the extra pain that I would obviously have because off this, I explained that should this worsen my condition I would have to withdraw from it.

    Any way the course is a help to me improving my computer skills so I wanted to do it but I have been having problems every day on the course and many hours after when I get home, I am taken too by taxi and taken back home by taxi so although I have to say that it may be worsening some of the conditions I have I have kept it going to improve my skills in computers even though maybe I shouldn’t have and pulled out when I started to have problems with the pain.

    The course finishes on the 26th of June this year but on Monday I got a call from the job centre advisor that I was being taken off him and placed in a work programme with bootstrap.

    Now I am carrying on with the course until I have to stop due to any further worsening of my conditions, this has led me to thinking what is now happening has I have complied with the course, they have made an appointment to see an advisor at bootstrap and included it says that they will help in finding vacancies, applying for them and go through interview techniques with me, now this letter has come some 3 months prior to my 12 months running out and I am still doing the course, I don’t know what they are up to but it does seem weird has bootstrap are to get job seekers back into work for a fee paid to them..

    I will have to get the full story on Friday but has I am aware I don’t have to look for vacancies or apply for work it says so has I am on WRAG.

    Firstly it has come 3 months too early, secondly I am no were near being able to carry out any work, ok I can move a mouse about but that’s about all and I am struggling with pain while doing so and bootstrap are paid to get people back too work for payment.

    I am very annoyed and confused but will ley you know what happens next Friday, this may be the next bag of sh-ite they are shoving on me and probably others.


    Comment by Anonymous — April 11, 2013 @ 12:39 pm

  525. Hello Graham.

    Please let us know what’s happening in the future, as far as I’m aware the DWP can force you to come of this course and attend these dreadful non productive work programmes.
    It hasn’t happened to me personally, I’m just informing you on what I’ve been hearing, on here and on the sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org
    People attending courses actually approved by the DWP being threatened with sanctions for not trying hard enough to find work seems to be a favourite DWP terror tactic.

    It’s madness, what’s the saying ? ‘You just couldn’t make it up’.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 11, 2013 @ 2:04 pm

  526. I was changed over to ESA in February and told I would only get it for a year. I’ve been placed in the Work Related Activities section, but like one of the previous posters have an enduring problem. My official diagnosis is Schizoid Personality Disorder with depression and anxiety. This isn’t something they can ‘cure’ its going have to be managed for as long as I live. Whilst I would like to do voluntary work again I know I could not survive in paid work as the stress would cause another relapse.

    I’ve spoken to the CAB who tried to explain things to me, but I didn’t understand very well. I know the signs of me becoming unwell again and recently they have started to get worse, in no small part because of the benefit issue. So I spoke to the assessment team and was told I wasn’t yet ill enough to qualify for their help. So I feel I’ve fallen through the net, no one is helping me, I don’t understand the process which is being applied to me, I’ve just had an interview with Maximus to help me get back to work and felt I was being bullied into ‘being well’.

    So I know whats going to happen. In a year I’m going to lose my benefits. Then I’m going to have to ask for my dog to be re-homed as I can’t afford to look after him. And then I’m going to die.

    Comment by Charlie — April 14, 2013 @ 4:46 pm

  527. Hi Charlie, have you tried your GP or MP for help and support to get you into the support group? this is happening to so many of us, i lost my money in November last year, after a really bad spell both physically and mentally, i finally decided i was going to appeal their decision, and even though i only finally appealed in March this year (its bullshit that you only have a month to appeal as long as you have medical proof of why you are late with your appeal) and i am not going to give up, cos that is exactly what these bastards want you to do. You will get all the help and advice on here as to how to go about getting put into the support group, so please don’t even think that you are going to lose your dog, and please, don’t think about dying, your not alone Charlie, you have us lot behind you x

    Comment by alicamera — April 14, 2013 @ 5:21 pm

  528. Hello Charlie.

    The reason you are going to lose your benefits in a year is because you are in receipt of Contributory ESA and the DWP have placed you in the Work related activity group (WRAG).
    If the DWP decision maker had placed you in the support group of Contributory ESA, then your entitlement to ESA doesn’t end after a year, it carries on indefinitely until you are assessed again by ATOS.

    You do not have to accept the DWP decision makers determination, because you can appeal to be placed in the support group.

    So this is something you should seriously consider, an award of ESA with the support group will at least get them of your back until your next re-assessment.

    You can appeal as follows, ask the DWP for a GL24 appeal form, also ask for the ESA85 assessment report, this is the report that ATOS sent to the DWP and influenced the decision maker into awarding you the WRAG of ESA rather than the Support group of ESA.

    Once you receive these documents you can scour through the assessment report and see what the ATOS HCP said about you, then compose the appeal and send it of to the DWP, the CAB will help you compose the appeal if you ask them in advance.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 14, 2013 @ 5:26 pm

  529. I hadn’t thought of contacting my MP before. I’ve now sent him an email decribing my situation and asking his advice. I will also make another appointment with my GP. It does feel that the AMH will only help me once I am admitted to hospital which seems ridiculous.

    I will try to get the documents you’ve detailed and keep in touch to let you know what is happening. Thank you for your advice.

    Comment by Charlie — April 14, 2013 @ 5:48 pm

  530. it’s so difficult Charlie, all we want is want we are entitled to, if we have all payed our taxes, or our families have paid their taxes, how dare they treat us like dog shit under their shoes!!!!!!] thankfully we have organisations that we can get in touch with to help us out, at the end of the day, well i think i am begging, but by god, i am begging for the help that my contributions over the years has paid for.

    Comment by alicamera — April 14, 2013 @ 11:00 pm

  531. If you think you getting treated like dirt and things are bad now, wait until they bring in this new law, they’re going to do it, and they’re going to do it very shortly.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 15, 2013 @ 9:34 am

  532. Follow up to posts 517, 518, and 524.

    My friend attended his appointment with bootstrap this morning and rang me to update the situation for me.

    He arrived and ended up in a room with around 20 others, some had obviously had been drinking alcohol has it stank of it in the room.
    He was given a form by this guy to fill in and while he did so the guy in charge stated that he doesn’t really know what should happen because he doesn’t do this but had to stand in for a women that was off sick, jeez off sick and said that he doesn’t know what to do next.

    After that statement my m8 asked to see some one else in charge and was introduced to a women who asked what could she help him with.

    He showed her his W&P letter informing him that he has been put in the Support Group of ESA, she replied that he shouldn’t be here and this was for JSA people, and didn’t need to stay, she said that she would ring him in 2 months.

    He said that he would firstly before he went like an explanation has to why he had the letter from bootstrap that if he didn’t attend the appointment that day his benefit may be affected.

    She couldn’t say and said let me ring you in a couple of months.

    He said what about my one to one meeting stated in my letter from you and if I didn’t come I may loose benefit, I need to know what is going on and she replied ok I will make you an appointment for next Tuesday and we may be able to help you then, he replied why cant you help me now I have just been made in no uncertain terms in your letter to attend or my money would be stopped what is going on here.

    She replied just come next Tuesday and we may be able to sort it out.

    He agreed and left.

    I am not sure and neither is he what the hell is going on.

    Roll on Tuesday

    He like many others want to know that they are doing it right so has not to receive any letter that his money has been stopped, how can you keep in front with this load of trash they are dealing out were no body knows what the hell is happening.

    I have the same appointment in a different town than him but I am expecting the same treatment will get back next Friday on this.


    Comment by Anonymous — April 16, 2013 @ 2:41 pm

  533. Hi Graham.

    He didn’t need to go, but I suppose he wanted to go on principle and make a point.

    A simple letter to the DWP would suffice in the future, as in…

    Could you please confirm that my attendance at such and such a work focused interview is mandatory, as you can see from my records I have been placed in the support group of ESA and as far as I’m aware according to the law I am not obliged to attend if I do not wish too.
    I have been threatened with withdrawal of benefits if I do not attend, since I’m seriously ill I can tell you that brown enveloped letters of this type are extremely unattractive.
    Can your office assure me at your earliest convenience and in writing that this will never happen again ?.

    Because if you do not get it in writing they will keep demanding you attend, if you do not attend then an unwelcome break in benefits will be on the cards, it’s important you get it settled one way or the other because your friend has found out by experience that these people haven’t got a clue how to pull themselves up by their own bootstraps..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 16, 2013 @ 4:10 pm

  534. Hi Charlie,

    Even if you cannot get into the support group you may be able to claim ESA income based when the ESA contributions based ends. It will depend upon whether or not you have a working partner and how many hours they work, have any other income (earned or from private pensions etc) or savings (over £6000.00 I think)

    If you do not have a partner( even if you do it is worth looking into as it depends on how many hours they work or how much they get I believe) and do not have too much other income (dla is not counted) you should be able to get it. If you do have any other income it is deducted from the ESA eg: if you had £50 pw pension that would be deducted from the £99.15 ESA (I assume that’s about what you receive?) so you would then receive £49.15 pw ESA.

    If you do get income based ESA you are entitled to full help with your rent and full council tax (less the amount your local authority has decided everyone must pay because of the changes which came in this year).

    Best wishes to you and cuddles to your dog

    Comment by Norma — April 17, 2013 @ 10:44 am

  535. Hi
    I’m so confused I don’t know what’s going on, I was assessed for ESA on 12th Dec2012 got a decision on 2nd of February and placed in the support group and that I do not have to take part in any work related activity.
    I have spinal problems that cause me a lot of pain and effect my legs and can only walk with crutches, I also have great difficulty sleeping because of pain and spasms in my legs.
    Today I received another assessment to be filled out by the 16th May!
    Is this correct? can they call me in for reassessment every couple of months?

    Comment by Mike — April 18, 2013 @ 12:58 pm

  536. Hi Mike.

    This is just one of the things we are trying to get across to everyone, but few are getting the message.
    Yes they can call you anytime they like whenever they like, this isn’t about your health, this is about making money and anyone on sickness benefits are the victims.
    If you don’t want to know what’s going on then that’s up to you, but anyone with any sense is going to our site and learning up on what’s going on.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 18, 2013 @ 2:49 pm

  537. Hi Mike,

    I too was assessed in the August, finally heard in the November of last year, that I was to be placed in the support group, then received more forms to fill in by April 19th, which is today !
    I actually sent them back within a week of receiving them, so they have had them for over 3 weeks, yet have heard nothing….. maybe they are putting me on hold for now, as my home is currently in the process of having adaptations done, of which I sent in the O.T. report of work needed to help me to remain as reasonably independent in my own home.
    I suggest you trawl through this site,for as much information / guidance as you can.

    Think yourself lucky, like I do that we were both put in the support group ( for now ! ) as others here have had, and still are, having to battle to even get into the WRAG.
    Again, a few that play the system, cause all this crap for all the genuine people, who like me am sure they would rather be in employment if physically / mentally capable, than be put through the trials of a completely derogatory humiliating system, to prove you are ill / disabled.
    Whatever the outcome of mine, I will fight it, as much as it is stressful, if we all roll over and give up then this pathetic excuse for a goverment will win.
    If only I could stand /sit long enough outside No 10 I would start a civil revolt !

    Good luck.


    Comment by jilltreamer2007j — April 19, 2013 @ 8:13 am

  538. We must fight. The government will kill us all if they can.

    Comment by Anonymous — April 19, 2013 @ 3:59 pm

  539. Will the person who is posting comments under the name JOE BLOGGS please refrain from doing so, Joe Blogs – Notice the spelling – is the respected editor and administrator of the http://www.dwpexamination.org forum and has NO CONNECTION with you whatsoever.

    The other commenter has been spammed for their stupidity for rising to the bate and responding to this JOE BLOGGS character.

    I have your e-mail address and IP number, so don’t come back……..scram, go somewhere else please.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 21, 2013 @ 7:40 am

  540. Follow on from post 532.

    Well I attended the bootstrap appointment last Friday and I let the female who will be looking after me from now on during my ESA WRAG Group start the interview.

    Firstly I was asked my background when I was in work and what work would I be looking for in the future so we can help you in your return to work.

    I had no option but to explain my situation up to, during and after my ATOS assessment, I explained that my multiple medical conditions are now worse than they were at the assessment when the assessment stated that I was not able to work at that time nor in the near future which then stated possibly in 12 months time, which I didn’t agree to and stated so when I received my assessment details.

    Bootstrap had agreed to pay for my taxi fares so I could attend the meeting and that I wasn’t in any position to apply, attend or even look for any work at this time and by expressing my medical situation further before she started explaining what else she would be able to offer me in finding work and that it would stop anything further in that area from her and stop her at that point.

    She replied that she was now the one who would look to see if she could help me to find work should my health not be a problem in doing so and would look if she could find or had any help in finding work taking my health into consideration, she was now doing work for the W&P and would have to check on my situation because of the W&P.

    Further chat from her carried on with my reply were after she could see that I wasn’t ant were near ready for work she then went onto say that the best way now would be to telephone me in 2 months for a telephone interview and to see if there was any change at that time.

    I gave her my taxi fare receipt she handed the cash to me and I left.

    My impression after is that once she had asked the relevant questions, and she was convinced that she couldn’t really offer me any help she then went on to the telephone interview to see if there was any change and that was my first interview with bootstrap completed until 2 months time.

    I couldn’t see what else she could do for me now and probably in 2 months time, it looks has though has well has Job seekers claimants who they also look after to find work, they are also now to be involved with any one on ESA also, and the W&P are going to keep an eye on us and not let us get through are difficult hour by hour, day to day life we now have in piece be it only for me a phone call in 2 months.

    Also I have the feeling that they will find some thing else for us to go through if this doesn’t seem to be working say in a couple of years time.


    Comment by Anonymous — April 21, 2013 @ 2:13 pm

  541. heart attack left me with a heart condition,take 6 drugs daily,get bouts of angina,cannot walk far at all some days,i was given 0 points by atos,appealed,and got 15points,had another assessment late last year,and was put in wrag ,I appealed ,as I should be in support group am still waiting for outcome,been awarded the high rate of mobility of DLA ,will that help in my group appeal?

    Comment by paul — April 22, 2013 @ 6:59 am

  542. Hi Paul.

    Should help get the support group if you mention it. It works the other way round, if you don’t get ESA the DWP use that to prevent you getting DLA, so what’s good for the goose is good for the you know what, or at least should be.
    But as you know Paul, fairness and reason went out the window in the hell that’s become Cameron’s Britain.

    Comment by dwpexamination — April 22, 2013 @ 7:42 am

  543. I am sick of the way that Cameron’s Britain has made claiming benefits extremely difficult but…..and it is quite a big BUT.
    I have worked in the support field for a number of years now primarily within the drug and alcohol field but also within ill mental health. I can see what happened and what continues to happen within this DWP bollocks. Some people are out and out spongers with no intention of working, just want to milk the government for every penny they can lay their hands on with incorrect claims for Income Support (back when), ESA and DLA.
    This new system set up by Cameron and his bigger pile of dogshit cabinet is a way of rooting out the genuine claims from the spoof ones. It is not right and generally not a good way of doing it. i have seen the medical examiners put out and out lies on their summaries of the medical interview with questions not asked but responses to unasked questions recorded!! I ain’t a rocket scientist by any stretch but even I know that is fundamentally wrong. On the whole though, the system does appear to work with the chancers failing to go through with the lengthy appeal process, however the genuinely ill people, who for one reason or another cannot (not will not) work are penalised, proceeding with this lengthy appeal process (that in one case I witnessed going on for almost a year) and worrying that for some reason the appeal will not be upheld. it stinks and is wrong.
    In my experience I have to say that the genuine people are successful in their appeal. my advice from a support role would be get the involvement of CAB or a benefits advice service (WRAMAS in Bristol – I tip my hat to them). they will give you sound advice and help with the completion of appeal paperwork, taking some of the worry from your shoulders. It isn’t going to change because for all it’s faults, the system works. So…alll you despondent people out there who feel they’re being shafted by Cameron and his boys, hang in there!! You will win your appeals and you will get the money backdated. Small comfort at the moment but when that fat cheque for back dated £30 or so a week for 3-4 months falls through the door you will feel much better.

    Incidentally, the man who waited almost a year for his appeal won it. He received around £1200 in backdated benefits. Poor fella didn’t get to enjoy it though as he was a drug addict (recovering) £1200 in a lump tipped him over the edge and he overdosed and died after a week of receiving his backdated money. i feel as though Cameron personally killed him with his stupid system but that is just my opinion…we all have choices!!

    Comment by eenyaw — May 7, 2013 @ 8:38 pm

  544. eenyaw…I don’t believe this system is to separate the genuine from the fakes, I believe this new system has been designed to completely destroy the whole welfare system root and branch.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 7, 2013 @ 8:49 pm

  545. Hi eenyaw, that is such a sad story, god help the poor bloke, and yes, sometimes we have choices, but sometimes we don’t, i am awaiting surgery on my spine, i too won my appeal, just heard about ti last week, not sure what is happening, as they do not rush to let you know, but i really am past caring now, that bloke didn’t last long, i would hate to think that for the sake of six months benefits i would die under the surgeons knife!!!

    Comment by alicamera — May 7, 2013 @ 8:51 pm

  546. why did he only receive £1200 my understanding if you win an appeal they have to backdate it to the date of appeal over a year should be about £5000

    Comment by Anonymous — May 7, 2013 @ 9:42 pm

  547. How long is income related ESA for.

    Comment by Anonymous — May 18, 2013 @ 1:32 pm

  548. Anonymous…You will receive income related ESA until your next fixed assessment with ATOS healthcare.
    That could be next month or next year or whatever.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 18, 2013 @ 6:05 pm

  549. eenyaw not all genuine people are successful in their appeal, i have rheumatoid arthritis, in pain every day along with other problems, i had letters from both my doctor and occupational therapist stating that i am unfit for work, i had my appeal on Thur and got the letter yesterday to say i failed my appeal, i am also a single parent to an 11yr old, i have absolutely no idea what i am meant to do next, my ESA stopped frm Thurs, i was on the support group.

    Comment by Mags — May 19, 2013 @ 8:35 pm

  550. Mags…I’m sorry to hear that, I really am, to go from the support group to nothing is a terrible blow.
    You can re-apply for ESA though, the DWP don’t tell you that, they will tell you to sign on instead.
    If you want to know the criteria for re-applying for ESA then go to our sister site and think up a username and log in..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 20, 2013 @ 12:29 am

  551. When you reclaim ESA immediately after a lost appeal you have to immediately go for a medical. You don’t get to wait for 12 weeks though. The system is very flawedbut I still think its a way of finding ht egenuine claims. If you lost your appeal and yours is a genuine claim I wuld re-apply and go for it again. Athiritic pain in the knee will not always rule you out of working though. The system is rubbish. Thank you mr Cameron!
    To anonymous querying why my client ONLY got 1200. When you make an appeal you continue at your basic rate of ESA. If you’re successful they put you up to one of 2 groups and your money increases accordingly. I forget which one he went in to but his money went up about £30 a week, maybe a little more. I forget the exact amount he received it could have been more it could have been less, but it certainly wasn’t 5000. That’s almost a full years full ESA, not the shortfall.

    Comment by eenyaw — May 20, 2013 @ 6:40 am

  552. Thanks for comment, i joined your sister site, and have re applied for esa!. eenyaw if you are referring to me when you say arthritic knee pain, then please educate yourself as to what rheumatoid arthritis is please, thanks

    Comment by Mags — May 20, 2013 @ 8:10 pm

  553. Mags – Not really….I work with someone who has rheumatoid arthritis and perhaps should have been more clear in my post. Rheumatoid arthritis is an awful condition – I know. Lady I work with has it. She’s had a partial knee replacement in one knee and still manages to get in every day and up and down 2 long flights of stairs to our office. I have arthritis in my knee ( just your normal one) and I tip my hat to her. She manages much better than I do.
    Best advice to you is to reclaim. I am amazed you failed your medical and subsequent appeal.

    Comment by eenyaw — May 21, 2013 @ 5:49 pm

  554. There is a god up there! I commented on this site back in sept 2012. At the time I was receiving contribution based ESA an was in wrag group. I appealed to be put in support group after getting advice from this site.my money stopped ( after a year) on the 6 th dec 2012. I went for another medical an was declared fit for work. I was disgusted and asked for a copy of medical.the doctor who signed it and declared they had done my medical was a woman’s name.( I was seen by a middle aged man) straight away I filled in form to appeal an take it to a tribunal.i then received a letter asking for me to send in more medical evidence and they would reconsider. I sent in every test Result i had from 4 years to present.a letter from my specialist in London ( I live in Liverpool) and a letter from my o.t. All the evidence was there showing I have a very rare disease of my nervous system and basically half my body has stopped working.after a wait of 7 weeks I received a call to tell me I had been placed in support group. Will be paid all money’s owing an will be left alone till may 2016. Alls I can say is please don’t give up.i got the impression that because my illness isn’t the norm and very rare they couldn’t be bothered to find out about it.i hope everyone who’s in the position I was find the determination to keep fighting.and I also hope my story brings a bit of hope to those who feel like giving up.

    Comment by Jojo — May 22, 2013 @ 2:53 pm

  555. Hello Jojo.

    You were assessed by a man and the ESA85 assessment report was signed by a woman ?, this is the kind of nonsense people are getting all the time, ATOS don’t really have much going for them do they ?.
    Congratulations in fighting back and getting your rights.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 23, 2013 @ 7:16 am

  556. I have fybromyalgia in the severest form,also cervical spondalosis along with other painful diseases
    I refused to go to the appeal on the grounds that I was too ill to travel
    I got an immediate refusal to be placed in the support group. It seems the tribunal didn’t understand my written appeal
    I am hospitalised every three months to receive lignocane infusions, I take morphine every day and other strong pain killers
    I was refused on the grounds that I did not turn up
    However four hours before my job centre appointment I received a phone call from them saying my appeal has been overturned and I am now in the support group
    I feel exhausted with it all and very poorly people should not be subjected to this treatment
    There are generations of families out there that have never worked and have no intention of ever doing so. Surely the fit but lazy should be penalised not us
    Good luck to all you deserving poorly people. Don’t give up

    Comment by Anne — May 23, 2013 @ 10:05 am

  557. Wy ave i at to fill in a esa 3 form and what happen next wil i lose any of my benifits

    Comment by ian — May 26, 2013 @ 6:32 pm

  558. Hello Ian.

    An ESAa3 form is a change of circumstances form, only you can know why you may have a change of circumstances.
    For instance is your Contributory ESA (Which lasts for 365 days) about to run out, and you have to apply for income related ESA ?.
    That’s a change of your circumstances.
    If you have an improvement in your health and no longer wish to apply for ESA but another benefit like JSA then that is a change of circumstances.

    You are a mine of information Ian, in other words I know nothing about you because you have told me nothing, but I’ve to figure out why you are getting a change of circumstances form.

    I hope you can understand my problem..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 26, 2013 @ 8:54 pm

  559. I am on income based esa, my partner has just got a full-time job, I passed the assessment and I am now in wrag, I need to know will i lose my benefits because he is working full-time, and if I did what could I claim as I am unfit for work, we are both in debt, my partner has a iva, I have to pay mine as I am the owner of the flat, I am so worried, as how would I pay my debts and bills, my partner cannot give me much as a large chunk goes on his debt and child maintainance. All replies welcome.

    Comment by Debs — May 27, 2013 @ 1:39 pm

  560. Debs…Go over to our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org and ask them, your situation is complicated because of the debt and child maintenance.
    However they can help with advice, just think up a username and log in and then go to the general discussion page.

    Comment by dwpexamination — May 28, 2013 @ 9:55 pm

  561. Stupid idiotic Ian Duncan-smith is quite happy to waste more welafre money instead of saving it on me. I reach my state pension next June so will come off sickness benefit for good. But dear old IDS still wants me to fill in an ESA50 form proably go for a medical and by the end of it, could be Christmas, have me appeal and go for a tribunal. I have won one before and will again but by the time it all comes round Ill be in reciept of my Penson for the rest of my life and finished with the welfare nightmare. Just one suggestion to all. Do not be afraid of ATOS, DWP or any other brainless government body. They are liars as I have proved. Get help from Welfare Rights and CAB they are brilliant and will support and go with you to medicals.
    Trust no-one there and think before you speak they watch you from the waiting room till you go. Treat them with Contempt. They are not interested in you at all only ATOS looking good. I stood up to my HCP and showed her to be a liar and not doing her job properly. I complained to ATOS and she was dissaplined.

    Comment by lucy — May 29, 2013 @ 12:10 pm

  562. I’ve just had 4 letters in 1 go telling me that i have been found fit to work, i scored 12 points. I have been told that i need to produce a sicknote while i appeal to still be able to claim some money even thou they have had a pink long term sick note from my doctor. It seems the pink sick notes aren’t valid for more that a couple of years !!! I have made an appointment at the doctors to get a new sick note. I was told that the appeal rate is only £71 a week, I couldnt’ live on the £101 i was getting before as i’m about to have my house taken away from me due to arrears on the mortgage as the DWP decided that they would only pay me £29 a week for accomidation (not sure where they thought i was going to live for that). i really dont’ know what to do now. I keep thinking it is really worth all the hassle and maybe i should just end it all.

    Comment by lyn — May 31, 2013 @ 1:08 pm

  563. Hi Lyn,

    Firstly I just want to say please please please do not ever think about ending it all, think of your friends and family and what it would do to them, nothing warrants going down that road ever.

    I know it is not easy, I was found fit for work in 2011 but I appealed and won, my last assessment was recorded and I have been placed in the support group (exactly the same illness and no change) so there is light at the end of the tunnel!

    If you have not already done so tell the DWP you want a copy of the Atos medical report (ESA85) they have to send you one if you request it. Go through the report to check if there are any errors, ommissions, or anything else that has been recorded incorrectly. If you do find anything this could help your appeal. See if your local citizens advice can help with your appeal, you can also ask them for advice regarding your finances.

    Could you maybe go onto an interest only mortgage until your situation improves? Or would selling your house be an option?

    The main thing to do is do not panic, take a deep breath, ask for as much help as you need and try to think about any ways you could reduce your outgoings, an odd pound or two here and there soon adds up.

    Best wishes

    Comment by norma Roberts — May 31, 2013 @ 2:39 pm

  564. Hi Norma, thanks for that. I have an ESA 65 which they sent with the letter. Can i get a copy of the form i filled out as well as they are saying i put something in it but i dont’ remember writing anything in there about it at all.

    Comment by lyn — May 31, 2013 @ 2:44 pm

  565. Hi Lyn,

    Hope you are feeling a bit better. The ESA 65 you have is a summary of the Atos report and does not give you much info, the ESA 85 which I mentioned is the actual report sent by Atos to the DWP and contains much more info.

    The form you completed is an ESA 50 and whilst I have never asked for a copy myself I see no reason why the DWP would not be able to send you a copy.

    I hope all goes well for you, and remember many many people are getting these decisions overturned at appeal.

    Next time you have to have an assessment take a photocopy of the ESA 50 before you send it back to the DWP, and if you are called in for a face to face assessment tell Atos you want it recording, you are perfectly within your rights to do so.

    Best wishes

    Comment by norma Roberts — June 2, 2013 @ 12:16 pm

  566. Hello. I scored 6 points from my atos medical where I had a wicked witch doctor never evn smiled. I use a stick, walking frame & trolley at home. I do not cook meals they are either delivered or just have sandwhiches. I have right knee ligament damage, cannot bend or kneel & severe varicose veins on feet & legs. Was born with a hole in the heart & hard of hearing. I’m still appealing my dla which stopped in sept & now my esa on friday past. The job centre say I’m unfit for work so don’t know what to do. I’m 46yrs old & live byself. Thankyou

    Comment by stephen — June 3, 2013 @ 9:33 am

  567. Norma, just been to see my doctor to get a sicknote. He has refused because i’m not under my psychologist any more he can’t issue a sick note. I can’t be refered back to the psychologist unless i try and commit suicide. Althou the doctor agrees i’m not fit for work there is nothing he can do. I really don’t know what to do now.

    Comment by lyn — June 3, 2013 @ 4:15 pm

  568. Hi Lyn,

    I cannot understand why your doctor cannot give you a note if he agrees you are not fit for work, also I am sure you can be referred back to a psychologist if your doctor believes you need to see one.

    Surely your doctor did not say you could only see a psychologist if you tried to commit suicide!? If he/she did they are totally wrong and you need to get yourself another GP pronto!! If you yourself believe that is the only way you can get to see a psychologist that is NOT the answer.

    Can you see a different doctor? I would make another appointment explain how you feel and ask to see a mental health professional.

    I do not know a lot about these things, I normally come on here to ask for advice! So all i can say is if you cannot see another GP then have a word with citizens advice and see what they say.

    Hope you get things sorted soon


    Comment by Norma Roberts — June 3, 2013 @ 4:56 pm

  569. You must appeal Stephen, the DWP and ATOS know you are not fit for work they hope you will just give up and don’t bother appealing.
    Appealing is easy, think up a username and log into our sister site and they will supply you with all the details.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 3, 2013 @ 9:35 pm

  570. Hi, i have just been placed in the wrag group after filling in the new esa form. I was on incapacity benefit, can they force me into work in this group, or would i be better appealing for the support group which i think i should be in but i am scared i will lose the lot as i haven’t had to have any medicals.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 5, 2013 @ 8:00 pm

  571. Anonymous…If you think you should be in the support group then you should appeal, what makes you think you’ll lose the lot ? the DWP have already admitted you are not fit for work by granting you ESA.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 5, 2013 @ 10:18 pm

  572. getting messed around!!

    me an my partner had seperate claims an when our daughter was born we set up a couple claim an they have reduced our payments by over £100 pounds roughly an they say its cause none of us are in a group? now this i dont understand because when me an my partner set up our couple claim we were told my partner was already in the support group? then when we were underpayed further they said the money we had already recieved was backdated pay? we had just set the claim up how can we have backdated money due? now our money is the same as my partners single person claim? now my partner has had a medical an it was all done clerically an they seem to have lost the paper work on it an they,re saying thats why were recieving this reduced rate? also when i was on a single person claim i was a claiment for 2years an never had a medicial so was never put in a group i have been told i was getting underpayed by £85 for two years cause they knew roughly what group i should have been in they asked why i had never had a medical an i said i dont know i have been getting messed around everytime i have called in about this? now am i right in thinking if i had missed an appointment they sent me my benifits would have been stopped? thus proving they never actually presented me with an appointment? im now waiting for an appointment for a medical for my single person claim!

    Comment by sandra grant — June 6, 2013 @ 8:46 am

  573. Hello Sandra.

    You are indeed correct, if ATOS had sent you an ESA50 or arranged an appointment to be assessed on your fitness to work and you didn’t turn up then ATOS would have informed the DWP that you did not comply with their wishes, and YES your money would stop immediately, no ifs no buts.

    You can possibly get further help on this from our forum members http://www.dwpexamination.org think up a username and log in and ask on the general discussion page.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 6, 2013 @ 9:13 am

  574. I am really confused. I was on Incapacity, have been for years, went to ATOS examination and they awarded me 0 points. CAB then advised I appeal and helped me fill in all the relevant forms. I was immidiately then placed on low rate EAS whilst pending appeal. Recently I got a letter stating that my 365 conribution based ESA is due to run out on 15th June 2013 and was told to fill in a 53 page income related claim. Soon after sending back this form that would then place me on income related ESA, I was sent a letter from DWP stating that I have now been put into WRAG and my appeal has lapsed. My condition has worsened and my mental health, I have new evidence and went to my doctor for help, even told him that I am feeling suicidal, he was no help at all and said that he is stressed to about his practice and I should try and learn how to handle stress better. I went to CAB they said that they would help me appeal as my condition has got a lot worse and recent MRI show this, plus my mental state is worse and I am suffering panic attacks everytime talk to DWP. Only four days after getting letter stating that I am now in WRAG, DWP send me a letter advising that I need to attend an interview at Job Centre. I haven’t even had my appointment by then with CAB to start the appeal it has been less than a week. I went to my appointment with CAB yesterday to start appeal and she said its not worth me appealing, she knows I am unfit for work, I am really thinking about taking my own life now as just one missed payment from ESA means I will lose my home. I cannot work, I am in constant pain as I have protrusion in my lower back and an annular tear, causing chronic pain and limited mobility, I have loss of feeling and pain in both my legs. I suffer with anxiety and panick attacks and now just feel like giving up. I can’t make it to interview onmy own as I can’t use train as if I go anywhere unfamiliar I collapse with a pnic attack, I have even lost my sight during one of these episodes. I spoke with DWP at weekend and they upset me so much it has now brought on my Duedenal ulcer, and the doctor gave me tablets for that 2 days ago. I have new evidence from MRI scans and GP and nuerologist stating I am unfit for work, but do not seem to be getting any help and am left feeling confused, hopeless and life just seems pointless now as I cannot afford to live and any happiness or hope for the future I had is being rapidy drained from me. I feel alone and frightened, I have no partner, 2 children and this has all happened (being placed on WRAG and feeling like no on cares) at the same time my parents have gone away for 2 weeks on holiday and I have no one. When my children go with their dad on 15th June I will be alone in the house for the first time, I am frightened as I feel I may do something, I do not know who I am anymore and just feel like I can not go on. Help me please. Jo.

    Comment by Jo Rogers — June 7, 2013 @ 6:08 am

  575. Hello Jo.

    First of all I need to tell you that just because you have been placed in the work related group it doesn’t mean they will force you into a job.
    When you go for your work focused interview the advisor will see how bad you are and most likely never ask you to return for another interview.
    That’s why the CAB are telling you it’s not worth appealing because it’s an appeal to get an extra 5 quid a week really, and there’s a chance you may lose the appeal which would only encourage the DWP to hound you even more.

    Can’t you see it’s all a con ? it’s all to do with improving Iain Duncan Smiths figures to present to parliament in the future, so stop worrying and attend the interview and demonstrate how ill you are through your action and you will not be invited back.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 7, 2013 @ 6:48 am

  576. My husband has recently been placed in WRAG. He has physical and mental illness and works 8 hrs a week in supported permitted work. What I want to know is do we appeal and ask to be in Support Group or be happy that he is receiving something for at least 12 months. He will be 65 in 2 and a half years. I know we’re luckier than most on here but I just don’t know what to do for the best. He is happy with his job but to be honest just about manages. Unless I can find more work he will either have to find more work or I’ll need a second job. Again, I know I’m lucky I can work but we just are puzzled with it all. He didn’t have to attend any assessments or “medicals” but was juist placed in WRAG

    Comment by b — June 7, 2013 @ 9:17 am

  577. I have today received the results of my second Atos assessment: I have been placed in the support group with my next assessment date being May 2015.

    My two health problems are exactly the same as they were in December 2011, when I had my first assessment, they have not improved or worsened. The result of the 2011 assessment was 0 points, return to work in 3 months!

    I appealed the first assessment, as the Atos report was a pack of lies, and I was put in the WRAG.

    The difference this time was that I had the assessment recorded. Also I did not just answer yes or no to their closed, manipulative questions, I expanded my answers to get accross EXACTLY how my illnesses affects my day to day life so there was no doubt as to what I can or cannot do.

    I would advise everybody to get their assessment recorded and to try and expand their answers with as much detail as possible as to how their health problem(s) affect their ability to do things.

    Good luck all!

    Comment by Norma Roberts — June 7, 2013 @ 2:05 pm

  578. Hello b.

    Only you and your husband can know if he should apply for the support group, because you and he know his health problems better than anyone.
    All I can say is you have nothing to lose by appealing, remember the DWP have already admitted even without a face to face assessment and without a fight that he is not fit.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 7, 2013 @ 2:47 pm

  579. Hi Norma, i have a face to face medical assesment on Monday, can you tell me how you recorded the interview and whether you gave them a copy. I have been told that i can record the interview but it mut be with something that will also make a copy for them. Im so nervous, ive had numerous medicals with Atos over the years and each time been declared unfit for work. Im sick to the back teeth with having to provide medical evidence time and time again. They have all my records, scans, blood tet result and Consultants letters , yet evert time they write to me they ask for medical evidence and now want it again on Monday. I have chronic Arthitis, and have regular hospital treatment, its widepread and im on controlled drug, i have chronic depression caused by having arthritis at a young age and have recently been diagnosed with stage 3 chronic kidney disease, i have terrible pain and fatigue and im awaiting surgery, they know all this but till want to see me with yet more copie of my medical records. David Cameron will only be happy when we’re all dead and gone .

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — June 7, 2013 @ 9:08 pm

  580. Hi Donna,

    As soon as I was given a date for the assessment I told Atos I wanted it recording, it was Atos themselves who did the recording. Everybody is entitled to have their assessment recorded by Atos, however, you need to tell them you wish this as soon as you receive a date for your assessment so unfortunately if your’s is on Monday it is too late now.

    I hope all goes well for you on Monday, and remember the next time it is your turn to attend one of these ludicrous assessments tell Atos you want it recording as soon as you can.

    best wishes

    Comment by Norma Roberts — June 8, 2013 @ 12:01 pm

  581. Hi Norma, thank you very much for your reply, im not holding out much luck then, i feel they just want to terrify people into not appealing, but im not going to stop, i shall just carry on appealing.
    Many thank
    Donna xx

    Comment by DONNA OWENS — June 8, 2013 @ 12:23 pm

  582. Hi, got my appeal tomorrow to go from wrag to support group, i havent got anyone representing me, just myself ,i suffer from fibromyalgia, carpul tunnel in both hands, anxiety depression, psoriasis, costocondritus, etc. After reading all these comments i was wondering about canceling it, i have been in the wrag for 14 months, thats how long its took for my appeal date,i still have 6 months left in the wrag group should i stay in this group or go to appeal, thank you Debbie

    Comment by Debbie white — June 11, 2013 @ 11:18 am

  583. I suffer from fibromyalgia and just went from WRAG to support group following an appeal although it never went to appeal they just reversed there decision I think however that was because I had the royal British legion representing me and letters from my MP forget carpel tunnel I have that and it is treatable so they will ignore that keep fighting if you win you will get backdated payments I got over £4000

    Comment by Anonymous — June 11, 2013 @ 11:32 am

  584. Please help as I can’t find answer anywhere -I have been on ESA contribution based since October 2012 -so far I had no assesment with Atos regardless that I should be on higher rate since january 2013 -my health is improving now and soon I should be able to get off ESA – the question is if they will payback money from January as I should had received higher rate even if I get off the benefits as this is not my fault they have never assesed me in the first place after 13 week assesment stage

    Comment by sprytna10 — June 12, 2013 @ 11:41 am

  585. You know, you just can’t win!! I rang theDWP at the end of May to ask the result of my Atos assessment, (which I had had recorded because the previous report was a pack of lies) I was told that it said on their computer I had been put in the support group – whoopee!

    When my money went in the bank today it was the same as when I was in the WRAG, so I rang DWP again only to be told that seemingly the decision maker had thought I should be in the WRAG even though Atos has said support group! It has now gone to a senior decision maker to decide what to do (could take 8 weeks they said!!!!!) So why it states support group on their computer is anybody’s guess! Surely “entitled to ESA, decision pending as to which group” would be more appropriate.

    This whole assessment thing really is a complete farce!

    Comment by Norma Roberts — June 12, 2013 @ 7:30 pm

  586. Hello Norma.

    You’ve just found out the hard way, as I did four years ago, it matters not what it says on their computer, it matters not what they say on the phone, especially the phone.
    What matters is what they have written to you, and even that isn’t 100% reliable.

    The DWP (due to Iain Duncan Smiths crackpot welfare reforms) are the most incompetent Government organisation ever known, they couldn’t organise a piss up in a brewery.
    The simple Nazi file card system could put them to shame.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 13, 2013 @ 8:37 am

  587. Hi sprytna.

    This is a problem that keeps cropping up, to date their has been no solution, because the DWP will not acknowledge there is a problem.
    By rights you should get the highest rate after the 13 week assessment rate has expired, the DWP haven’t been paying up, so unless you demand to be paid stating that it’s not your fault you were not assessed, then you will never get anywhere.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 13, 2013 @ 8:46 am

  588. Thank you for reply -unfortunately I don’t know who else to ask as I rang up DWP and asked what about payment with higher rate as I have not been assessed and should be receiving more money since January 2013 -the answer she gave me was simply “I don’t know”

    Comment by sprytna10 — June 13, 2013 @ 11:15 am

  589. Hi b, (in response to post number 576)

    As your husband is already over the age of 60 I would suggest you consider applying for Pension Credit for both of you. When I previously worked for DWP (I worked in pensions, not JC+) I know that there used to be an automatic transition from Incapacity Benefit to Pension Credit for males who were over 60, which meant they no longer had to provide sick notes etc. I am aware the benefits have now changed, but if you have a look at the attached link it will advise you whether he would now be eligible to apply for Pension Credit. You said your husband is two and half-years away from 65, so by my calculation he should have already reached Pension Credit age.


    If he can apply for you both as a couple, this would save you considerable stress and avoid the need for him to be continually assessed for work. You may also find you are better off the award can lead to help with rent and council tax.

    Either CAB or a welfare rights worker, or even DWP can help you complete the forms if necessary.

    Good luck.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 16, 2013 @ 6:01 am

  590. An additional comment to 589 – If anyone else who posts on here falls into this age group, do consider Pension Credit (PC) as an alternative to ESA. If you receive PC and are in receipt of DLA care middle or higher rate you may be entitled to an enhanced rate of PC. As I am out of touch with the exact rules, you would need to seek advice.

    Do remember the DWP can send out a visiting officer, particularly for vulnerable people, to assist them completing the forms. This way it ensures you get the right benefits.

    Good luck and take care.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 16, 2013 @ 6:05 am

  591. Michelle Cardno Esa/DLA appeals advocate and fightback 4 justice founder. Excellent info and totally agree. If you want free templates and advice on appealing see our facebook page fightback 4 justice

    Comment by Michelle — June 16, 2013 @ 7:00 pm

  592. even when its dark outside don’t give in to this lot fight fight fight its all we can do against them fight last week had been fighting for 18 mnths or so stuck in the wrag put pushed aside not called to the jcp but the first year couldn’t give them a fight has they had between ops feeling like shitte and even to last week the d/maker who used to phone me up made a point of saying why now are you appealing has last year you didn’t ,my reply get stuffed you new I was in having my heart op so new I wasn’t in any state to fight back ,and the cheeky bugger said if I one she call my papers back infront of her well guess whot last week she decided that even htou she says im cured she has found it in her heart (were) to place me in the s/g but still got that dla fight left to go for so don’t feel down its a long road we travel but then we get there in the end so don’t give in and if you want to talk more well come accross to http://www.dwpexamination.org


    Comment by jeffrey davies — June 17, 2013 @ 8:54 pm

  593. My brother (re post 460) has now won his appeal for support group to be backdated to when his contribution based WRAG ceased. Do keep on fighting as the tribunal panel were fair and independent and seem to be as exasperated as we are with DWP.

    Good luck in your quest to get moved into support group.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 20, 2013 @ 11:54 am

  594. Hi Anonymous
    Thanks for the advice. Checked out pension credit but I earn too much for him to be eligible. We have requested a copy of the report that supported his move to WRAG. When that arrives we’ll see if its worth appealing for him to be moved to the support group. Not sure what’ll happen yet, but will let you know. Thanks again.

    Comment by b — June 20, 2013 @ 12:12 pm

  595. Hi b,

    I do understand your earning preclude your husband from receiving Pension Credit. Would it be worthwhile giving up work to claim PC and for you instead to claim Carer’s Allowance? The calculations can get complicated, so may be worth checking out the figures before making any decisions.

    The alternative is to go to appeal, which I would strongly suggest as an option. Good luck with this.

    Comment by Anonymous — June 20, 2013 @ 2:56 pm

  596. Hello Anonymous.

    The exasperation was for the benefit of the public ie you and I, the panels know fine well the DWP and ATOS are criminals, these panels are embarrassed and as for showing exasperation ? well that’s all they can think of to hide their shame.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 21, 2013 @ 8:47 am

  597. I have only stubbled across this site as I was trying to find out more information for my husband, I have been reading many posts and find that we are also in the same position. My husband for the last 4 years has been getting higher rate mobility and middle rate care, recently this has been renewed. He was also originally on Incapacity Benefit which got moved onto ESA, but he was awarded the WF group. I had already helped with his appeal to DLA, and was unsure whether would of been able to appeal which group he was placed in for the ESA. Since reading this information, I wondered would he still be able to appeal to be in the support group, as his claim for contribution based runs out 31st July this year, or should he of appealled a lot sooner.
    My husband has had to fight tooth and nail to get the benefits he deserves, my husband had found out just through going for a medical that he had a heart murmur, his doctor did not want to make any further examinations, but luckily my husband was under a consultant for end stage kidney failure as he only had one kidney working since birth, which was on the gradual decline and demanded further investigation. Long story short my husband had Aortic root and valve replacement, he had his op in 2010, followed by a kidney transplant in 2011 as his kidney finally gave up after heart surgery.
    He is constantly to this day in pain in the chest, has palpatations and feels very light headed and needs a rest after walking not very far. He cannot lift anything that is heavy or above his head as it pulls on his chest, and takes 10 tablets a day, but I could carry on with the list.
    As part of the work focused interviews going to the jobcentre to discuss what his options are, is wasting his time as well as theirs, as they come to the same conclusion each time that his is not fit to work, and send him on his way, why was he not put in the support category in the first place.

    Comment by Maria — June 23, 2013 @ 10:20 pm

  598. Hello Maria.

    Well Maria, by the sounds of things your husband in my opinion should be in the support group, his ESA will end in July/August this year because he is in the WRAG of Contributory ESA, but doesn’t end if he was in the support group of ESA, if you appeal now then of course they will ask why you didn’t appeal to get into the support group before.

    Actually..I too would like to ask why you didn’t appeal to get into the support group before ?.

    So you have two options, contact the DWP and indicate your husband just can’t cope with work focused interviews and since job centre plus have also agreed he is totally unfit for any type of work of any description then suggest to the DWP he should have been in the support group all along.

    The other option is to find out if he would be eligible for income related ESA, in order to be eligible for income related ESA certain conditions have to be met, which are as follows : if your weekly household income is more than £149 per week, and/or you have more than £16,000 in the bank then he will not be eligible.

    If your husband can meet the above (As in, he has £149 or more etc) then unfortunately the DWP – which really means Iain Duncan Smith – take the view that your husband can look after himself financially and is no longer entitled to state help.

    I agree the DWPs methods are sneaky, I bet they didn’t inform your husband LAST YEAR in writing that he is entitled to appeal if you do not agree with their decision to only award him the WRAG of ESA ? of course they didn’t.

    You may wonder why they didn’t ? after all it’s only an extra five pounds per week, well the answer is, Iain Duncan Smith is desperate to show parliament that we are all scroungers and are conning the country, and he is going to prove it by reducing the support group to the bare minimum, he is going to get as many into JSA or the WRAG searching for a non existing job as possible, and he wants the statistics on a little bit of paper that he can wave to the opposition one day, while berating and insulting them for not doing something sooner.

    Of course it matters not to this muppet how it’s done, no stone is to be left unturned, no legal rights are to be honoured, every trick in the book is/has to be employed in order to get those figures down to the bare bone.

    I as the administrator of this website has already asked Mr limp wrist Iain Duncan Smith – via a letter – if he would like to meet me face to face – just me and him- without his armed protection and SAS trained bodyguards – and explain why he is deliberately ruining peoples lives and inducing so much stress driving people to suicide, I want him to explain it to my face, I never got a reply, hell he probably didn’t even bother to open the envelope.

    Just as well for him, because if he does make the mistake of agreeing to meet me alone, he better be wearing an IRON F****N SUIT.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 24, 2013 @ 9:08 am

  599. Thanks for the information, we only didn’t appeal sooner, because we really didn’t think we could, we thought if that was the group he was put into we would have to accept it, the lady who deals with his case at the jobcentre, even sees how difficult it is for him to walk up stairs,but she asks whether he would be able to each time – to try and catch him out I suppose.
    My husband gets it from all angles to be honest, just because he is youngish (37), he gets looked at very nastily by the older generation if he parks in a disabled space. He has been given a disability badge for a reason, and there is plenty of doctors letters/assessments to back up his conditions. I had a lady come up to me the other day to say if you leave your car there they are very hot and will give you a fine, I said why, she said because you don’t have a disabled badge, I told her to go back and check the car and had to explain my husbands situation, why did I need to explain in the first place I ask myself!
    My husband did not ask to have a heart surgery, for which he very nearly lost his life, he did not also ask to be born with one kidney, and the other deteriorating so quickly.
    His heart condition, has recently been found to be down to him having a double gene of one in chromosone 16, and there is a highly lightly chance that he will have to have heart surgery again in the near future. My husband worked before his heart surgery, as he has found out since, he could of been claiming benefits a long time, this government has really messed up this country, do not get me started on other issues.

    Comment by Maria — June 24, 2013 @ 10:14 am

  600. maria it would be better if you came across to http://www.dwpexamination.org signed up and made yourself a name for yourself then you get a answer quicker there are loads like us fighting and coming across well give jb somerest for the next one please come across as your questions will be answered by like people and jb also pays for that but to you and its free so come across and learn jeff3

    Comment by Mr jeffrey l davies — June 24, 2013 @ 12:05 pm

  601. Hi, I’m unsure as to whether any of you can help me with my claim to ESA and secondly where I stand now as I am literally clutching at straws. I am aware I’m not the only one being messed over by DWP and I’m not here for sympathy. I just have no idea what to do now.

    I have been told I’m not eligible for contribution based ESA as I did not pay enough NI Contributions between the years 2010/11 and 2011/12 – I was at university in 10/11 and started F/T work in 2011/12. Therefore I have only paid enough NI contributions for 1 yr and not the 2 that is necessary. I am unable to work and have been off sick from my job for 12 months. I am 24 and have Osteoarthritis of my hips and on waiting list for a hip replacement. I use a wheelchair most of the time, and crutches. I am not eligible for Income based as my boyfriend earns more than £16,000. I was advised to appeal the decision but have been told that it has been left unchanged and that my claim has been passed to a Tribunal because I am still not eligible for benefit.

    My question is having already been told that the decision is due to not having paid enough NI contributions, I don’t understand why they are sending me to a tribunal as I have no way of providing further evidence for 2010/11? I am struggling financially and been told that there is nothing more that I can apply for :( I have been asked to still attend medical – which given the research I have done – doesn’t sound like something I want to go through when I am not eligible for the benefit in the first place. They are paying my NI contributions so still sending sick lines to ESA dept. but advised if fail medical will lose this too.

    Please reply if you have any advice :) Amy xx

    Comment by Amy — June 26, 2013 @ 8:49 pm

  602. Hello Amy.

    Your situation is complex, but if you log into our sister site someone will have the answer, just think up a username and ask on the general discussion page.

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 26, 2013 @ 9:52 pm

  603. Have you enquired into income based Esa this has nothing to do with NI contributiuons but is based on your income

    Comment by Anonymous — June 28, 2013 @ 9:17 am

  604. Hey sorry for not replying back. I don’t know how to delete my question. As I have resolved it in another way. @dwp I did ask the same question on your sister page and had a few replies. Thanks for the advice to ask over there in the first place. @Anonymous I’m not eligible for Income Based as I live with my boyfriend and he earns over the capped amount. I have rectified the issues that I was having, but don’t know how to delete topic and wanted to explain and say thank you to you guys for replying in the first place.

    UPDATE: I had an appointment with my consultant yesterday and was advised that I have one possibility to make me ‘able’ (hip replacement) but with no guarantee that it could work due to earlier surgeries. Therefore I am going to have to give up with the whole concept that I will get better but don’t have the financial stability to fight my claim for ESA. As I have been advised that I have no leg to stand on, excuse the pun. Therefore I have to return to work and try and get on with my life and forget about ESA as not eligible and therefore this means I don’t have to go for a stupid medical that realistically that they would have failed me on anyways. But again thanks for your advice and sorry for my slight rant over this whole mess. Amy xx

    Comment by Amy — June 29, 2013 @ 8:14 pm

  605. Hello AMY.

    What if I told you that they might still demand you attend an examination ? yes I know what your thinking, they can’t because I’m no longer receiving benefits…right ?. Well wrong, you get your National insurance stamp paid every week, and in order to continue getting it paid every week they can actually demand you attend, incredible isn’t it ?.
    If you pay it yourself then they cannot ask you to attend, you can tell them to get stuffed.
    So if the call you, then you now know the reason why they can..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — June 30, 2013 @ 2:00 pm

  606. Hi, wonder if you can help. I have recently been put in support group of esa after having claimed income support for a few years. I claim for myself and my wife. Today my wife received a letter from the jobcentre telling her she has to go for a work focussed interview for partners. The nature of my illness means that being left alone for more than a couple of hours affects my well being. What are they expecting from my wife? Will she be expected to go on courses etc? We don’t receive carers allowance as I am on the low rate dla for mobility.

    Comment by john — July 1, 2013 @ 1:31 pm

  607. Hello John.

    Inform your wife to tell the Work focused advisor that you are in the support group of ESA and even though you and she do not get carers allowance, she still has to take care of you 24/7.
    In fact you had to ask a relative to watch over you while she’s on this stupid good for nothing work focused interview.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 1, 2013 @ 4:01 pm

  608. john come across to http://www.dwpexamination.org but has jb says how are they chasing your wife ask them can they provide someone to look after you while they chasing her up for work ,she should be claiming for one if shes looking after you but come across were more can help you perhaps get you to apply for it jeff3

    Comment by Mr jeffrey l davies — July 1, 2013 @ 5:17 pm

  609. Long story but my ESA WRAG ‘advisor’ told me that ‘you can appeal you know [about being put in WRAG]. Now that I’ve checked online, I keep seeing that you have ONE MONTH from the decision, to appeal, so I’m feeling like she may have given me wrong information (again). Am going to appeal anyway.

    Comment by truffbat — July 15, 2013 @ 3:05 am

  610. Hello truffbat.

    I’m not sure what you mean by the wrong information, your advisor said you can appeal about being put in the WRAG, which is true.
    Are you saying your advisor did not inform you that you only had a month to appeal ?
    Since you haven’t explained what you mean it’s difficult to work out what you are really trying to get across, and I have to read between the lines.

    Are you saying you weren’t told you have a month to appeal ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 15, 2013 @ 4:15 am

  611. truffbat come across to http://www.dwpexamination.org were youl be answered quicker has jb says yes you got a mnth no you haven’t you got a mnth from the letter dates on it so that’s even less another dwp trick but fo come across has you going to need the list to ask for and the gl24 with a sicnote so come across get that help or jb is starting to go grey jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — July 15, 2013 @ 9:02 am

  612. Hi I’m new on here – would just like to ask a question. I have applied for ESA and sent the initial form back on Monday 15th July 2013 – could you please tell me when payment starts and how long before a decision will be made. Any comments would be gratefully received as I am worrying myself sick. Thanks. Andrea

    Comment by Andrea — July 22, 2013 @ 10:17 am

  613. Hello Andrea.

    When you apply for ESA and they accept your application you should hear from them within three weeks at the most, can be a little longer if you live in a big city.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 22, 2013 @ 12:40 pm

  614. Hi , i have been on IB for 14 years ( last medical was 8 years ago when i was informed it would be indefinite & no more medicals needed!) . I received my questionnaire for changing over to ESA in May which my GP filled out for me . I was rushed into Hospital for a Total Thyroidectomy begining of June and was released on 8th the same day i had a letter stating i was to receive ESA and was put in Contributions based WRAG . I didnt comprehend what this entailed as i was so bad after the operation and still am . My MS Nurse was Horrified as all this was done without any contact with her or my GP or Medical. When i realised what the implication was i phoned and asked to lodge an appeal . 5 days ago i was called in by DWP for a back to work meeting – the advisor was also taken aback that i was there – she also informed me i should be in support group and to appeal & gave me welfare rights tel no . Ive contacted them but received no reply despite leaving messages . I am now losing the will to live my mental & physical health is in a downward spiral and i just dont know what to do :( ..Thanks Stacey

    Comment by Stacey — July 22, 2013 @ 2:43 pm

  615. Hi
    I was declined the migration from IB to ESA in September last year. I appealed and it was overturned on 24th June this year. The tribunal stated that I was entitled to ESA with WRAG component due to regulation 29, special circumstances and should be re-assessed in 12-18 months.
    I have contacted DWP who said on the 10th July a decision was made to put me in WRAG and to be re-assessed in 18 months. I have yet to recieve any formal letter from them or recieve by backdated payment.
    Today I recieved a letter that states my CONTRIBUTION based ESA will run out 12th Septemeber, as by law they can only pay it for 1 year.
    I’m single, 42 and have no savings etc. So should I have not been entitled to incomebased ESA?
    What I do not understand is why they put me on contribution based ESA, when I have been on IB for quite a few years. Don’t I need to pay NIC to be in contribution based ESA?
    Does this mean I have to make a claim for income related ESA? If so, doesn’t that mean that the tribunal decision no longer stands as it is a new claim?
    I was hoping to be put in the support group and have’t appealled the tribunals decision. The advice I was given was that a new claim or appeal against WRAG could mean that the tribunal decision could be overturned and I could be back to square one?

    I find it odd, that now, this is the first time they have ever mentioned the words ‘contribution based’.

    I’m due to go away for 3 weeks this Friday and am trying to get all this sorted out before I go, so any help with this would be greatly appreciated.

    Comment by Beggar-eSquire — July 22, 2013 @ 3:55 pm

  616. andrea Stacey begger-e-esquire come across to the sister site were your questions can be answered quickly has more of us to answer for esa dls enquirys http://www.dwpexamination.org jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies (@jeffrey33333) — July 22, 2013 @ 6:47 pm

  617. Stacey you can’t rely on help from welfare rights at the moment because they’re choc a block.
    Of course you need to appeal, you can do this by asking the DWP for a GL24 appeal form, if you need help filling it in then visit our sister site and you will get all the help you need http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 22, 2013 @ 9:32 pm

  618. Hello beggar esquire.

    You shouldn’t be on contributory ESA, I can’t understand it either.
    You can apply and receive income related ESA because you have no savings and provided there is no one in your household – like a partner – bringing in £149 or more per week then you will receive income related ESA.
    For more help go to our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 22, 2013 @ 9:36 pm

  619. hi i got a letter a few weeks ago stating that i was in the work related activites group and would receive an extra 20 odd quid on my money.. the letter didnt mention anything about income based or contribution based and only said in the letter that they would contact me with further details of when i should attend an interview with an advisor. Im confused as to what exactly it all means.. am i fit to work or not? and are these work related activites just the exact same thing as the god awful mock interviews and hours of pointless job searches..? i dont know whether i should appealing something as i dont know what it means..and even then i dont know if i can face appealing if i have to…can anyone shed any light?

    Comment by shell — July 22, 2013 @ 10:10 pm

  620. Hello Shelley.

    Could you tell us a bit more about yourself, leaving out the personal details of course.
    For instance how long have you been on ESA ? were you on IB before and transferred over to ESA without a face to face assessment by ATOS ?.
    Did the DWP on their own initiative and just by looking at any medical evidence you sent them just grant you ESA without having to be assessed ?.
    Were you working before you were entitled to ESA ?.
    Does your health condition lead you to believe you should not be in the WRAG but in the support group instead ?.
    So whether you appeal or not depends on a lot of things.

    Anyway if your in the WRAG of ESA you will be required to attend interviews on how the DWP can help you back into work, yes it’s a sham.
    I personally have never heard of anyone getting a job with the right support from the DWP, I suppose it’s possible, but I’ve just never heard of it.
    If you do need to appeal then we at our sister site can help you in the right direction, just think up a username and log in.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 23, 2013 @ 7:15 am

  621. hi thanks for your reply… I have been on ESA since November last year. Before that i was on JSA but had fought to get on ESA as i suffer from ptsd, paranoia, panic attacks ,anxiety and depression and find it difficult to leave the house 75% of the time, I went to the doctor and he told me i wasnt fit to be doing it as it was detremental to my mental health and the JobCentre were asking far too much of me..so he gave me a sick line and has continued to do so on the ground of mental health issues. I attended my face to face atos appointment in february or march. I didnt receive any letters from them regarding if i passed or failed or how many points i did or didnt receive. And the next thing i got the letter from DWP saying i have been placed in the work related activity group, and that i would receive a letter in due course with appointment details… I think i should be placed in the support group as i struggle to attend the appointments for various reasons and i couldnt suffer the thought of trawling over my whole life again with any of these people.. i feel it will make my health worse.. am i supposed to have had a letter from atos detailing the decision of my assessment.? I had an atos assessment 3 years ago and they passed me fit to work then and im sure i got a letter telling me i got 0 points. confused!!

    Comment by shell — July 23, 2013 @ 2:04 pm

  622. shell jump across to http://www.dwpexamination.org you will be others of the same and your question can be answered quicker but if you don’t you need to ask for a gl24 saying you are appealing teir decision but you can get more help by coming across jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies (@jeffrey33333) — July 23, 2013 @ 5:45 pm

  623. Shell…As I said if you feel you should be in the support group you can appeal, there is nothing to stop you, but only you can make that decision.
    Go to the site and get the help you need http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 23, 2013 @ 7:49 pm

  624. I have just been told I am in the WRAG group after 365 days does that mean I get nothing, not even JSA. My husband is working and gets around 13,000 a year. Really not a lot to live on ,him being expected to keep as well. Please help I want to appeal but dont know if I can deal with all the stress.

    Comment by juniper 123 — July 25, 2013 @ 3:37 pm

  625. Hello juniper.

    If you were on contributory ESA then you will get nothing on the WRAG after 365 days, you need to be on the support group of ESA.
    Unfortunately your husband earns over £149 per week, this means he is over the threshold for you to claim income related ESA.

    Iain Duncan Smith and his gang of criminals have fixed it so..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 25, 2013 @ 5:20 pm

  626. juniper 123 jump across to http://www.dwpexamination.org you can join up its free and helpful your questions answered it doesn’t cost please come across has you find that there are thousands like us there jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies (@jeffrey33333) — July 25, 2013 @ 5:31 pm

  627. just had phone call , wife straight onto support group no medical, result,,

    Comment by john calahan — July 26, 2013 @ 9:02 am

  628. Interesting video recorded when a man went for a medical with ATOS was told he couldn’t use his wheelchair to get to the assessment room.

    A short video (my phone ran out of space!) showing an argument I had with ATOS staff at the Romford medial assessment centre after they discriminated against me due to my disability.
    I had an appointment for my ESA application. I knew beforehand that I could only attend in my wheelchair if, in the event of a fire, I could use the stairs to evacuate the building. I was fine with this as I could have help from my Mum (who accompanied me) to do so.
    When I was called for my appointment by the medical assessor (from the waiting room) I was told that I could not go through the door leading to the assessment rooms in my wheelchair – I would have to walk.
    I asked why this was but did not receive an explanation except for mentions of ‘health and safety’.
    Due to their actions they did not assess me, only doing so due to the fact that I was in a wheelchair – which alleviates some of the symptoms of my disability (CFS/ME).

    Great for a place where you go to have a medical !!!!!!!!!

    Comment by lyn — July 26, 2013 @ 9:32 am

  629. Sorry wrong link, please can you change to http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZqkfBsvg4M

    Comment by lyn — July 26, 2013 @ 9:35 am

  630. Thanks Lyn…I’ve deleted the bad link and replaced it with yours.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 26, 2013 @ 9:48 am

  631. Good result John, remember they will be back, so learn your rights now and be ready for them, you can do so here http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 26, 2013 @ 9:53 am

  632. Just watched Atos Medical ref man in wheelchair being refused the right to go to Medical room for his meeting in his wheelchair. Absolutely disgusting, I was horrified about the way he was treated and the receptionist attitude. Is that how she treats her own family! I could not work for a company like Atos who treat humans in such a derivative manner. As a medical assessment centre they should make sure they have wheelchair access. All company’s have to have wheelchair access ! I’m so upset at the in human way they are treating people who have medical health issues and I’m sure if they had the choice would rather not have the health issues they live with on daily basis. Absolutely Shocking!!!!!!!

    Comment by Sue — July 26, 2013 @ 9:54 am

  633. great news john c another one into sg


    Comment by jeffrey davies (@jeffrey33333) — July 26, 2013 @ 5:14 pm

  634. The horror goes on.

    Comment by dwpexamination — July 29, 2013 @ 3:51 am

  635. I would be grateful for any advice or guidance available to help my claim. I have been on I.B for 17 years. I was asked to go for a medical with ATOS in Feb 2013. I received 0 points!!! I went straight to my G.P and appealed against the decision. I won the appeal and have been placed in the WRAG for 365 days.
    I have appealed against this as I feel I should be in the support group. The decision has been upheled and now has gone to appeals and tribunals. I have read many of the posts on here and I’m not sue it’s worth pursuing. Most of the people who have posted have been through so much and I would be glad to here if anyone thinks I should go ahead or if I’m wasting my time.
    I have osteoarthritis. I have nerve root compressions at levels c5, c6 and c7 also levels l4 l5 and s1 . I have constant pain and numbness in my left leg and right arm. I take a lot of medication and spend a lot of every day in bed. I have had many spinal nerve root blocks but after the next one on 22nd of this month I’m going to have the surgery.
    I have been on anti-depessents for many yeas following the death of my daughter. The reason I’ve refused surgery in the past is I hate hospitals. My daughter was diagnosed with cancer at 13mths old and I spent 2 years on a children’s cancer ward before she died when she was 3.
    I’m now 48 and I’m only going to get worse so I have to have the surgery. I have my next appointment with my neurosurgeon to discuss this in November. The letter of explanation I received states
    That because I have no date for surgery and I’m still under investigation. I have received a letter today from the tribunal saying I need to confirm appeal within 14 days.
    I’ve made an appointment to see my G.P but I can’t make my Neurosurgeon go any faster I would be grateful for any advise

    Comment by Sharron — August 7, 2013 @ 7:02 pm

  636. sharron please cross over to the sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org were there are plenty like us there who help each other and will get a answer quicker and help if one comes across sign up it doesn’t cost nowt and will be surprised by how much help ones get jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — August 7, 2013 @ 7:52 pm

  637. if you don’t come across youl need to answer tribunal service saying yes you going forward with it , now have you sar your docs of dwp esa and lt54 and more but if one comes across there be others whol help

    Comment by jeffrey davies — August 7, 2013 @ 7:55 pm

  638. Hello Sharron.

    The letter you received from the tribunal is a standard letter, everyone who has appealed to a tribunal gets that confirmation letter.

    Ok so you have appealed against the DWPs decision to place you in the support group where you rightly belong, you obviously know that to be placed in the WRAG of contributory ESA means you will lose all ESA contributory immediately when the 365 days expires.
    If you are not eligible for Income related ESA then your total income will be zero, no if’s no buts, nothing.

    If you give in now and waive your rights the DWP will see this, and mark you out for the future as weak, someone to harass and send on Work focused interviews and mess around whenever they feel like it, they can still do this because they pay your national insurance stamp.

    You can see that the only escape from these people is not to accept any money from them and you yourself pay your own national insurance stamp.

    The choice is yours, personally I wouldn’t give the bastards the satisfaction of seeing me on my knees, I’d rather die first, but that’s just me, I’m not you..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 8, 2013 @ 8:36 am

  639. Hi,

    I have been on incapacity benefit for mental health problems for years now and it is horrible I would love to work and have this out of my head. I was moved over when everything changed and put on esa and then moved into the WRAG as a volunteer (not sure how that happened as I do not remember volunteering) but anyway I was put under a training services and luckily the lady who deals with me has had similar problems in the past and was very understanding. Then I started getting letters from SEETEC to say that I had to attend activity programes the next week every day which put in into a serious anxiety state, I even called The Smaritians. Thankfully when I called my advisor at the training services on the Tues, after a bank holiday weekend of worry she sorted it all out for me and I never should have been put on it. There have been more letters sent to send me to more courses even though SEETEC have been told. Also I had a letter to say that as I was a no show at the courses (even though it had been cancelled) I was now facing a review. Again my training services lady spoke to the benefits people and explained for me, I have not had a reply yet but the lady said that they could not understand why I had been sanctioned. Hopefully no news is good news but I just do not know.

    Anyway that is a basic background, my question is that a very close friend of mine has said she may be able to get me 8hrs a week working with her, I am naturally terrified and the anxiety has started already increasing however I feel like maybe I should try this and push myself because I do not like being on benefits and is this an opportunity that could be a start towards making me more confident etc. How would I stand on money though because I could say I will do this and have such bad anxiety attacks that after one day or two weeks that I can not stand it anymore. It would be Saturdays only so only 8hrs. I really do not know what to do. I do not want to be presumed to be fit for work just for thinking about so I hardly dare ask anyone at the benefits/jobcenter, when after one or two or even three weeks I simply find it too much but have put myself in a position where they will say I have to start from scratch or not be entitled to anything. I have two children and am single and have a house, I am terrified. I do not think I qualify for permitted work.

    Thank you

    Comment by Sarah — August 9, 2013 @ 9:30 am

  640. I should mention the fact that as it is working with a close friend that is why I am even able to just think about it

    Comment by Sarah — August 9, 2013 @ 9:33 am

  641. sarah only you now how good or bad one is but being that you thinking about going back well are you under a doctor and would they say yes its but sounding if ones not ready but only you nopw this but you would be answered quicker if crossed over to the sister site were thre are more there to answer you http://www.dwpexamination.org jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — August 9, 2013 @ 5:39 pm

  642. Hello Sarah.

    You can work with your friend if you like, but the DWP have a rule, which is that you need to tell them if you work and how many hours you work.
    You can work up to 16 hours per week before they hit your ESA, AND THEY ARE VERY STRICT, if they catch you working without telling them then they will hammer you.

    Personally if you are on ESA, I don’t think it’s worth the hassle working at all, either come of ESA and work or stay on it.
    It would be different if you were feeling much better and want a gentle introduction back into working, but if you believe you may have some issues at the moment then it’s better to wait, the DWP don’t entertain sob stories I’m afraid.

    Working 8 hours a week demonstrates to their twisted logic that you can work 40 hours a week, and in the future if you have to appeal it can be tricky explaining how you can work 8 hours but can’t work full time.
    Obviously this is something you really want to avoid, until your health condition really improves.

    The decision is yours though..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 9, 2013 @ 5:47 pm

  643. Thank you so much, it has helped me to write it down and then to have someone elses opinion who understands this stuff is even better,

    I am under a doctor and I am being referred for further anxiety problems in this case bi polar, though that would without any doubt in my mind be secondary to the main anxiety issue that I have.

    I know what you mean and that is the frightening part, that if I even try to see how I go then the likelihood is that they will say that off you go to work 40hrs then. I know without any doubt that working full time or even part time would make me feel a lot worse but I guess that as everyone is rounded into a catergory rather than looked at individually there is no chance even if you wanted to give it a trial.

    I have always kept them up to date and attended what I have needed to and I would of course let them know if I was doing the eight hours but as you say what is the point of doing it because the likelihood is they would say well you can do 8 so you can do 40 and when I had tried one day and suffered because of it and was no longer able to it would be to late.

    Everytime I think of working and I do, my anxiety goes sky high and the panic attacks start which triggers my OCD to be worse than usual.

    I always say that I wish one of these people who are making decisions should live in my head for a day and see what they think then. If I could work I would, I do not like sitting on benefits and I wish I was well and could work but if it was that easy I would have done it long ago. Depression comes into it too and no matter what people say there is still a stigma attached and quite frankly with a lot of people a disbelief that it or other mental health disorders can exist unless they have it or study it or are extremely close to someone who has it.

    I know for my health I am best not to even try this which does not do my morale any help but I guess that is the curse of ATOS and the governments new policies. Maybe they are trying to make things better but it feels like it is hurting the people who most need it and in my case making me feel awful for claiming and not working :-(

    Thank you

    Comment by sarah — August 9, 2013 @ 6:27 pm

  644. Hello my name is Shirley from Medway Kent. I have been claiming ESA since November 2012, as i have got really bad Asthma. At the time of my interrogation with Atos in March of this year, i also had a secondary health problem with my back. My G.P had diagnosed that i had a slipped disc & trapped sciatic nerve in my right leg, i was in a huge amount of pain when i attended Atos medical. She totally ignored all of my G.P’s medical advice, and seemed oblivious to the amount of pain i was in! So when i eventually heard from DWP recently at the beginning of August, i was awarded ZERO points and told i was fit to sign on JSA and my ESA payment was stopped straight away. I have since had it confirmed by the hospital specialist/Physiotherapist that my G.P’s diagnosis was correct, that i have indeed got a slipped disc & sciatica. Which will require ongoing physiotherapy sessions on my back for an unknown period of time to help and manage my back pain! When i received the letter from DWP informing me my benefit was stopped, i took your advice and lodged an appeal against the unfair decision and i also wrote to my local M.P Mark Reckless. I also sent supporting letters from the hospital as proof of my back problem. Result a small victory against the governments paid Nazi’s they are going to re-instate my Esa payments at the assessment rate of 71.70 until my appeal is heard. The only thing that really pissed me off, i was away with my son on a short break away from home for a week between the 15th-21st July, stayed in a caravan with them (the first holiday i have had in 4 yrs) had the use of a friends mobility scooter so i didn’t have to walk, to help my back problem. Unfortunately the DWP Nazi’s tried to contact me at home on the 17th and a family member told them i had gone away, so it would seem in their eyes you are not allowed to have a holiday. They are currently deciding that they might with hold payment for those dates i was away! Geese I am wondering what the hell is happening to this once great country of ours? We are controlled now more then ever? Dreading what is going to happen once my appeal comes up. Shirley…Kent.

    Comment by Shirley Lang — August 12, 2013 @ 11:17 am

  645. Hello Shirley.

    With the Doctors report outlining your back problems etc you should have little trouble actually winning an appeal.

    You’ve also learned a valuable lesson, do not accept phone calls from these muppets, do not talk to them on the phone, any information they get they will use it against you if they can, of course any information they learn that could help you they will conveniently forget, so if you want to correspond with them then everything will be in writing.

    Don’t make the same mistake twice..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 12, 2013 @ 12:52 pm

  646. No I won’t? Thanks for your invaluable help, just checked my bank account on-line they have paid me the fortnightly payment that i should of got on 2nd August.
    So it looks like because i responded straight away, after the receipt of the letter from them ( I had sent them a rather forceful curt reply) It has paid off, for the
    moment at any rate. I am hoping that i get my appeal hearing before 10th November as by then i would have reached 365 days worth of contribution-based ESA. then my rate will drop to £27.63 p/w. How can anyone be expected to live on that i don’t know? And why the hell did i bother working hard for 40+ years paying the government all those thousands and thousands of pounds in N.I Stamp/Tax and only get a small percentage of it back, when we most need it in our later years, when we get Ill/sick/disabled? Every one on here must feel the same way as i do? Do you know if i would get a lower rate if i am placed in WRAG group, if my appeal is upheld…fingers crossed?

    Comment by Shirley Lang — August 12, 2013 @ 4:18 pm

  647. Hello Shirley.

    When your 365 days expire and you are not in the support group you will have no choice but to apply for income related ESA.
    If you do not meet the criteria for income related you will get nothing.
    Go to our sister site and they will tell you exactly what that criteria is… http://www.dwpexamination.org

    How far you can walk in metres (see below), to be eligible for the support group on walking I believe has now changed, 20 metres is the maximum, it used to be 50 metres, see the criteria list below.

    In order to be eligible for the support group you need to meet at least one of the criteria set out below.

    Qualifying for the support group of employment and support allowance (ESA) is not about scoring points. Instead, if the decision maker accepts that any of the following descriptors apply to you, then you will be placed in the support group.

    1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid can reasonably be used.
    Cannot either
    (i) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
    (ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.

    2. Transferring from one seated position to another.
    Cannot move between one seated position and another seated position located next to one another without receiving physical assistance from another person.

    3. Reaching.
    Cannot raise either arm as if to put something in the top pocket of a coat or jacket.

    4. Picking up and moving or transferring by the use of the upper body and arms (excluding standing, sitting, bending or kneeling and all other activities specified in this Schedule).
    Cannot pick up and move a 0.5 litre carton full of liquid.

    5. Manual dexterity.
    Cannot either:
    (a) press a button, such as a telephone keypad or;
    (b) turn the pages of a book
    with either hand.

    6. Making self understood through speaking, writing, typing, or other means normally used.
    Cannot convey a simple message, such as the presence of a hazard.

    7. Understanding communication by hearing, lip reading, reading 16 point print or using any aid if reasonably used.
    Cannot understand a simple message due to sensory impairment, such as the location of a fire escape.

    8. Absence or loss of control over extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting) despite the presence of any aids or adaptations normally used.
    (a) At least once a week experiences
    (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or
    (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device;
    sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing.

    9. Learning tasks.
    (a) Cannot learn how to complete a simple task, such as setting an alarm clock, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.

    10. Awareness of everyday hazards (such as boiling water or sharp objects).
    (a) Reduced awareness of everyday hazards leads to a significant risk of:
    (i) injury to self or others; or
    (ii) damage to property or possessions,
    such that they require supervision for the majority of the time to maintain safety.

    11. Initiating and completing personal action (which means planning, organisation, problem solving, prioritising or switching tasks).
    Cannot, due to impaired mental function, reliably initiate or complete at least 2 sequential personal actions.

    12. Coping with change
    (a) Cannot cope with any change, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder, to the extent that day to day life cannot be managed.

    13. Coping with social engagement due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder
    Engagement in social contact is always precluded due to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced by the individual.

    14. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder
    Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace.

    15. Conveying food or drink to the mouth.
    (a) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving physical assistance from someone else;
    (b) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
    (c) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s physical presence; or
    (d) Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to
    convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving —
    (i) physical assistance from someone else; or
    (ii) regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence.

    16. Chewing or swallowing food or drink
    (a) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink;
    (b) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
    (c) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence; or
    (d) Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to—
    (i) chew or swallow food or drink; or
    (ii) chew or swallow food or drink without regular prompting given by another person in the physical presence of the claimant.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 12, 2013 @ 5:45 pm

  648. hi again i wrote last week or 2 weeks asking for advice, you asked me to go over to the other site.. but i have tried to find my way round it several times but its just to confusing.. im not technical minded at all and its really far too hard to understand i dont have a clue…anyway, i have since been to my adviser appointment who told me that i have to attend mandatory ingeus appointments as and when they say..i told her this would have a detremental effect on my health as going into the office causes me stress anxiety and brings on panic attacks.. she said they would have to come and go with me as it says on the computer i have limited capability for work. I have heard all about this wrag and support group thing and altho im in the wrag i feel i should be in the support group.. however i dont have a clue how to go about asking or appealing, or who i ask or anything to do with it… any advice much appreciated. how do i get into the support group?

    Comment by shell — August 12, 2013 @ 5:54 pm

  649. Hello Shell.

    If you feel you should be in the support group then of course you have every right to appeal.

    So you need to inform the DWP (Not ATOS) that you feel you should be in the support group and would like to appeal, therefore could you (DWP) send me a GL24 form in order for me to do this as soon as possible.

    When you get the GL24 appeal form, you will see that the box where you write the appeal is tiny, this is deliberate, the idea is to try and con you into thinking that’s all the space you have to write the appeal.

    Instead use that box on the form to write an introduction to your appeal, something like, I wish to appeal against your decision to place me in the work related group, I believe I should be in the support group and I have strong medical evidence to suggest I should indeed be in the support group of ESA etc etc.

    And continue on A4 paper explaining exactly why you believe you should be in the support group.

    You can have a one page appeal, or as many pages as it takes, it’s up to you.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 12, 2013 @ 8:14 pm

  650. ok thanks for your help…. and can u give me an idea of what the difference is between the work related activity group and the support group ?.and what kind of stuff will i write in the letter,,,.and any other info i might need thats detremental… i dont think i will stand much chance in appeal as i dont really know anything about it or what the actual difference is between the groups or what the requirements are to get into the group..i can get letters from my cpn stating my issues but how will i know if this put me in the support group…. its all so bloody confusing its making me so stressed…. its been almost 3 months since i was put in the wrag and i didnt know anything about these different groups until recently so have i left it a bit late?.. sorry for being asking so many questions but im going into this blind with no info or anyone i know who knows about any of this..im also useless at writing letters do u possibly have a link to some sort of draft appeal letter that i can copy and just add my own details..?..

    Comment by shell — August 12, 2013 @ 10:40 pm

  651. Hello Shell.

    Have a look at the following link at the very bottom below, it answers some of your questions regarding the difference between the support group of ESA and the work related activity group of ESA. By the way those are the only two groups of Employment and support allowance.

    Since every appeal for the support group is different, because of all the different types of health conditions you can see why it’s difficult to write up a one size fits all template letter.
    But I can suggest an introduction into why your appealing on the GL24 form, then on the A4 paper a numbered explanation on how your health condition affects your daily living.
    For instance how far you can walk in metres, to be eligible for the support group on walking I believe has now changed, 20 metres is the maximum, it used to be 50 metres, see the criteria list below.

    In order to be eligible for the support group you need to meet at least one of the criteria set out below.

    Qualifying for the support group of employment and support allowance (ESA) is not about scoring points. Instead, if the decision maker accepts that any of the following descriptors apply to you, then you will be placed in the support group.

    1. Mobilising unaided by another person with or without a walking stick, manual wheelchair or other aid if such aid can reasonably be used.
    Cannot either
    (i) mobilise more than 50 metres on level ground without stopping in order to avoid significant discomfort or exhaustion
    (ii) repeatedly mobilise 50 metres within a reasonable timescale because of significant discomfort or exhaustion.

    2. Transferring from one seated position to another.
    Cannot move between one seated position and another seated position located next to one another without receiving physical assistance from another person.

    3. Reaching.
    Cannot raise either arm as if to put something in the top pocket of a coat or jacket.

    4. Picking up and moving or transferring by the use of the upper body and arms (excluding standing, sitting, bending or kneeling and all other activities specified in this Schedule).
    Cannot pick up and move a 0.5 litre carton full of liquid.

    5. Manual dexterity.
    Cannot either:
    (a) press a button, such as a telephone keypad or;
    (b) turn the pages of a book
    with either hand.

    6. Making self understood through speaking, writing, typing, or other means normally used.
    Cannot convey a simple message, such as the presence of a hazard.

    7. Understanding communication by hearing, lip reading, reading 16 point print or using any aid if reasonably used.
    Cannot understand a simple message due to sensory impairment, such as the location of a fire escape.

    8. Absence or loss of control over extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or bladder, other than enuresis (bed-wetting) despite the presence of any aids or adaptations normally used.
    (a) At least once a week experiences
    (i) loss of control leading to extensive evacuation of the bowel and/or voiding of the bladder; or
    (ii) substantial leakage of the contents of a collecting device;
    sufficient to require cleaning and a change in clothing.

    9. Learning tasks.
    (a) Cannot learn how to complete a simple task, such as setting an alarm clock, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder.

    10. Awareness of everyday hazards (such as boiling water or sharp objects).
    (a) Reduced awareness of everyday hazards leads to a significant risk of:
    (i) injury to self or others; or
    (ii) damage to property or possessions,
    such that they require supervision for the majority of the time to maintain safety.

    11. Initiating and completing personal action (which means planning, organisation, problem solving, prioritising or switching tasks).
    Cannot, due to impaired mental function, reliably initiate or complete at least 2 sequential personal actions.

    12. Coping with change
    (a) Cannot cope with any change, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder, to the extent that day to day life cannot be managed.

    13. Coping with social engagement due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder
    Engagement in social contact is always precluded due to difficulty relating to others or significant distress experienced by the individual.

    14. Appropriateness of behaviour with other people, due to cognitive impairment or mental disorder
    Has, on a daily basis, uncontrollable episodes of aggressive or disinhibited behaviour that would be unreasonable in any workplace.

    15. Conveying food or drink to the mouth.
    (a) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving physical assistance from someone else;
    (b) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
    (c) Cannot convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s physical presence; or
    (d) Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to
    convey food or drink to the claimant’s own mouth without receiving —
    (i) physical assistance from someone else; or
    (ii) regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence.

    16. Chewing or swallowing food or drink
    (a) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink;
    (b) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly stopping, experiencing breathlessness or severe discomfort;
    (c) Cannot chew or swallow food or drink without repeatedly receiving regular prompting given by someone else in the claimant’s presence; or
    (d) Owing to a severe disorder of mood or behaviour, fails to—
    (i) chew or swallow food or drink; or
    (ii) chew or swallow food or drink without regular prompting given by another person in the physical presence of the claimant.

    If you don’t know the difference between the WRAG of ESA and the Support group of ESA, how do you know you should be in the Support group ?.

    That’s something to think about before you appeal.

    I can recommend the CAB or your local welfare rights office for help in composing an appeal, just google your area and find out what’s available.


    Comment by dwpexamination — August 12, 2013 @ 11:23 pm

  652. ok brill thanks.. seems theres loads more scope for physical health, rather than mental health.. although id fit myself into at least 2 of those categories but whether they see the same as me is another matter.. I will make an appt with my cab and hopefully they will know about these 2 different groups and help with the letter… my worry is that because its a new thing not many advisers will know about it so therefore will not be able really to advise me properly., i can but try i suppose.. also hoping the fact its been 3 months(ish) since i was placed in this group doesnt go against me if it has a time limit for appealing..i can but try i suppose… Will check the link out.. thanks for your help :)

    Comment by shell — August 12, 2013 @ 11:34 pm

  653. Shell trust me the CAB will be well aware of all this, when i wanted to make an appointment to see them even with the help from the person at my WRAG it was going to be 3 months as there was such a backlog. Hopefully it won’t be so bad where you are.

    Comment by Lyn — August 13, 2013 @ 5:20 am

  654. And still the swindle goes on, even though the evidence is beyond overwhelming.


    Comment by dwpexamination — August 16, 2013 @ 7:42 pm

  655. Can you just get stuck in the income based low rate Esa?

    I lost my 1st round of Esa contribution based, too weak to attend the appeal & on 2nd round too weak for medical assessment. Was told doctors never send my medical information & that was my job & claim ended & i signed on Jsa, meanwhile i got my medical evidence & appealed & Esa income related restarted. i’ve now heard nothing & wonder is this it or am i waiting in a backlog for assesment

    I’ve stage 4 kidney failure & Cushings with nearly 700 cortisol, bedbound mostly though i can manage the toilet, basic meals & occassional dishes

    Who btw arranges home help? My Gp is useless & i’m struggling to get information

    Comment by Teresa — August 23, 2013 @ 12:00 am

  656. Hello Teresa.

    You will stay on the low rate until you are assessed by ATOS, it’s only supposed to last 13 weeks then they should pay the full rate if they haven’t assessed you, we have found that isn’t happening, people have been on the low rate for months and months.
    It’s nothing but an never ending circus Teresa.
    Log into our sister site, and learn more, any questions regarding ATOS or ESA then you can ask our members on the general discussion page.

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 23, 2013 @ 6:26 am

  657. Just been sent this link by a friend, I wonder if ATOS will find this poor lad fit to work !!!!!!!!!!

    Comment by Lyn — August 27, 2013 @ 7:27 pm

  658. Well Lyn…it beggars belief eh ?
    Will stick it in our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — August 28, 2013 @ 12:17 am

  659. I recently had my ESA stopped without my knowledge. I contacted them and they told me I had not returned an ESA 3 10/12 form. I did not receive this form nor did I know about it, I was told that it was my responsibilty to ask for this form? They sent me a reassessment form First Class and advised to fill it in immediately. I filled in the 49 page form on the same day I received it, whilst I was on strong medication for the pain I was suffering at that time, and in a complete panic! I have now been reassessed and my Benefit cut from £105 per week to £44.85! I was at the Job Centre yesterday and asked for some advice, as I cannot live on such a small income. They suggested I fill in another ESA 3 10/12 form, which they provided. I also asked for the GL24 appeals form, and was advised that I should not appeal but send in the ESA assessment form again and ask them to review it, as I was unwell when filling in original claim. I am in a quandry as what to do? Is it right that I can re-apply, or should I appeal? I would greatly appreciate any help or suggestions from anyone?

    Comment by James Boyd — September 4, 2013 @ 1:20 pm

  660. James…think up a username and log into our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org
    they can help you with the best advice possible.

    The claim form you received is for income related ESA, the DWP do not transfer you automatically to income related ESA when your contributory ESA ends after 365 days.
    You have to apply for it yourself, if you meet the criteria then you will get it.

    Do nothing get nothing..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 4, 2013 @ 3:58 pm

  661. Hi,

    Thanks very much for taking the time to reply, I have registered for the site you recommended, I have cannot find where I can add my question, and no email has arrived? What could I be doing wrong? Apart from being very stupid!

    Comment by James Boyd — September 4, 2013 @ 5:23 pm

  662. Hi James,

    An ESA 3 form is what the DWP SHOULD send you when your contributions based ESA ends after 365 days (if you are in the work related activity group) You cannot appeal your ESA ending after 365 days.

    I was not sent one of these forms and had to ask for one to be sent to me. The form is for claiming income related ESA. If you have savings, a private pension, works pension or your partner is working it can affect the amount you receive.

    I have an ill-health retirement pension and the amount I receive from that each week is deducted pound for pound from my ESA. I now receive £58.94 pw ESA instead of £100.15 pw.

    People who are in the support group do not have their contributions based ESA stopped for as long as they are in the support group.

    Best wishes

    Comment by Norma Roberts — September 5, 2013 @ 8:48 am

  663. Hi Norma,

    Thanks for your reply, I have a works pension and just like you they have deducted all of this from the £100.15, to leave me with £44 a week! I have no savings, no partner, I have had to rely on my Brother and Sister helping me short-term! There is just a brick wall contacting DWP! I do not think anyone can do anything, maybe they will listen if I have to go bankrupt? Just gettting my frustration out. I hope you are well, and can survive until we get a new Government.

    Good luck,


    Comment by James Boyd — September 5, 2013 @ 2:06 pm

  664. Hi James,

    I forgot to say that now you are on income related ESA and your circumstances sound exactly like mine (no partner and no savings) you should get all your rent paid (unless you own your home of course) and all your council tax. You may have to pay a little council tax because of the new regulations but this will vary depending upon which local authority you come under. Where I live I have to pay 25% (after the single person discount is deducted)

    Also last winter I received a few cold weather payments, I have never had these before so do not know a lot about them, but you could google for details.

    The only other thing you could do is next time you are “assessed” (I’ve put it in inverted comments as as far as I’m concerned it is a farce not an assessment) make sure you have it recorded and try to get in the support group, if you believe you qualify. If you are put in the work related activity group you can appeal to be put in the support group. If you were successful I believe you go back onto contributions based and the 365 day rule does not apply.

    Good luck to you as well, hang on in there there are (only!) 21 months to the general election.


    Comment by Norma Roberts — September 5, 2013 @ 2:26 pm

  665. Hi James.

    If you are on the site you will see the different forum pages, pick a page that is relevant to your particular question and add topic.
    After composing the post scroll to the bottom and click the submit button.

    I have no idea why you didn’t receive an e-mail, is it possible it was caught in the spam or junk filter ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 5, 2013 @ 3:07 pm

  666. Hi Norma,

    Thanks again for your information, I was not aware of the Council Tax reduction. I am paying the full amount currently, I will make that a priority.



    Comment by James Boyd — September 5, 2013 @ 3:46 pm

  667. Hi,

    I will try again with the other forum.



    Comment by James Boyd — September 5, 2013 @ 3:47 pm

  668. ESA are going to have a field day with me : / I have been diagnosed since 31/12/12 and been suffering from my mental health since second half of 2011. I have wanted to claim ever since I was diagnosed But my mental health makes it incredible hard and all the mental health teams I have been in contact with have failed me. I have Unstable emotional personality disorder -Impulsive type- as well as depression and social anxiety, my social anxiety is getting pretty extreme and I have had the esa forms for only a month after finally getting the courage to ring them myself after having had two separate mental health teams that were meant to support and help me and ended up forgetting about me most of the time and in the end my mom had to ring them up demanding why on earth they treated me that way when they know I cant ring them myself as I’m petrified of talk to a stranger or being let down (they told her that they couldn’t help me and that they had sent a “letter” to tell me that they were signing me off their register *letter never turned up till a few days after my mom had rang them so I am guessing they sent one after she rang them to cover their tracks*) My main support other then family and friends was my gp as he was always good to talk to about my issues but I haven’t been able to go to the gp since January as I got upset and scared because I didn’t know how to fill the form out as it had changed on the back of the prescription. I rang PIP around 2 months ago and I still haven’t had any forms to fill in yet so im trying to work up the courage to phone them and ask what is going on… Basicly My mental health sucks in the sense that I have two different mental problems that constantly conflict with one another causing even a bigger problem then I can prepare for especially if I am out in the public eye. I cant travel anywhere without a friend or family member with me the whole time as its the only way I can go out with atleast some semblance of normality. I lose my temper often and at the flick of a switch, I breakdown If people surprise me and I get very nervous near people if they look at me or even if I hear a group of people laughing I get paranoid beyond my control. I cant control my temper or my breakdowns its virtually impossible without certain means “self harm” which I cant do infront of people so my social anxiety kicks in telling me I am making a spectical of myself if anyone sees these out of control emotions. I don’t control them I just mask them as best I can until I cant get somewhere secluded so that I can deal with them by myself and if the special means arnt available at that time then I have to stay secluded “in public toilets or somewhere out of the public eye” until I calm down and even after I have calmed down it can take me 2-3 hours to get enough courage to then face my family or friend with me and then head home… sorry about ranting a bit there I cant describe how stressed I am, and I always over explain when I say something to reassure myself that people understand or atleast don’t get the wrong idea about me. I have already been in hospital because I overdosed, I will be posting my esa form in tomorrow, Im terrified of the idea of them rejecting me or trying to make me work when im more fragile mentally then I have ever been And I cant cope with the idea that they will make me see them every 1 or 2 times a week as I find it hard to get someone to accompany me for appointments. Anyone else with similar circumstances been through esa and have any suggestions to stop them prodding me too much?

    Comment by mea — September 6, 2013 @ 1:35 am

  669. Hello Mea.

    On your ESA50 questionnaire describe your symptoms exactly like you have described them here.
    That’s all you can do, if you are forced to appeal then we can help on our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org so wait and see what the DWP say after your assessment.
    Your description of your illness on the ESA50 is important if you do have to appeal because the appeal panel will read what you have written, that can help your possible appeal in the future.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 6, 2013 @ 10:22 am

  670. hi mea, your problems sounds so similar to mine, and infact, when i was reading it, i wondered for a sec if i had wrote it and forgot… i too have mental problems, mine being PTSD, panic attacks, depression and anxiety. I was also terrified of the appointments and stuff that i was being made to go to. I got my friend to come to atos with me and then a few months later i was placed in the work related activity group. I had my first appointment with an adviser a few days ago which i again got my friend to come.. It was with Ingeus, whom we have all heard awful things about. But i can say i was worried for nothing. She made me go over quickly my feelings about the whole things and then afterwards told me my health was more important than anything, and that she didnt agree with the dwps mandatory groups when there is mental health issues involved, I thought i was gonna have to see her weekly and go over all my issues, which i am not ready to do. But instead she said she was happy for her just to keep in telephone contact with me once per month just to check in and see i was ok and this would also keep dwp off our backs.. So this was a massive weight off my shoulders, Im hoping your appointments will go much the same as mine. Only thing is tho ive heard after 12 months on esa i will be changed back to jsa. Im currently trying to find out how to go about appealing it all but im like yourself, too nervous to talk to people, to nervous to write things down in forms coz i feel stupid when i read it all back. Ive been on esa for over 6 months now, so by rights i have 6 months left before all the hassle starts all over again. Stick in and you will get there. You seem to have a good support network round you, which is more than a lot of others have so use it as much as you can. With any luck you will get an adviser who is sympathetic and more interested in helping you than meeting her dwp figures. It is a long hard slog and a total pain in the ass having to go through it all but better to do and be honest and get any support they offer you, than not doing it and ending up in a mess with no money coming in and them on your back constantly. Good luck with it all

    Comment by shell — September 6, 2013 @ 12:17 pm

  671. Hello I have been on ESA wrag for the last 13 months in which time I have been supervised by my job centre were I asked for help to re train, I attended a college course paid for by the job centre and then when I had finished the course which was a lead into more in-depth courses to follow on, I asked for any help to carry on improving my knowledge in that same area but was then told that I had been passed over to bootstrap who told me that they don’t pay for college courses, I contacted the job centre that I wished to carry on my college courses at a higher level and would the job centre fund this course, they replied that has I was now with bootstrap it will be up to them to provide any further funding, I told them that they don’t and again told that bootstrap are now supervising me and the job centre had no further dealings with any further help in education.

    I have just has a letter from ATOS to fill in and send back and a medical appointment may be made, I have to take that has definite appointment, I have now today an appointment with bootstrap at 13.30 regarding that it explained in the letter that I have now been placed in the well being & work introduction workshop.

    Now what the f-uck are they now doing to my mental state of mind which was fine until these no marks got hold of me and started to control me bootstrap what can they do for me apart from making my mental state get worse.

    Does any one here know what I can look foreword too now that I am in the wellbeing & introduction workshop at bootstrap with also Atos going to give me more grief on top of this, I am sooo annoyed.

    Any info would be appreciated.

    Will get back to this here later.


    Comment by Anonymous — September 13, 2013 @ 11:10 am

  672. Hello Graham.

    I don’t know anything about this mob bootstrap personally, but for what I’ve heard they are merciless.
    Some of the members on our sister site do know a bit about them, and they will only be to eager to fill you in with the details if you ask on the general discussion page.
    Just think of a username and log in and ask away.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 14, 2013 @ 10:13 am

  673. my hell started 2 and half years ago i had been on IB for about 5 years had 3 medicals no probs then the new ESA came in ATOS found me fit to work ,i appealed and won went from nil points to 25,but placed in WRAGS the DWP lost the paper work and wouldnt start benifit again til they got it, only after the intervention of my MP 5 months later it was found great you would think by this time the year was up with the WRAGS so they stopped my money again,i ask for them to reconsider but they refused so ask to be placed in support refused so it went to appeal again ,at this point i lost the will 2 live i couldnt go through it all again my husband had gone out for the day and i packed up all the pills i could find and was going somewhere noone would find me, it wasnt a cry for help i didnt want to live anymore ,i supposed you could call it lucky but my husband had forgot something and came back, since then i hve been on antidepressents, it did give me the will 2 carry on fighting, then in march i had a phone call from ATOS another medical, this time i was taken to C a doctor because of what i tried t2 do, and her words were i dont know what they are playing at as far as i am concerned you are a genuine claimant,Tribunal papers came through no new medical included when i phoned and asked why i was told it was not relevant WHAT!!!!! so i ask why did i go for the medical then ,the reply so as we can decide whether to carry on playing your NI stamp yourhaving a ***king laugh now i told him ,so i requested a copy to submit myself 6 weeks it took to get it there in black and white from ATOS doctor unfit for work i wonder if it had said i was fit would have it been included.well tribunal was begining of Sept 9 months since they stopped my money and I WON MY APPEAL 2 and half years of hell almost over i have been placed in support group with the advice not to be assessed for at least 2 yrs although if they take that from when they stopped the benefit 1 year of that has gone,next hurdle is to get my money it is now 2 weeks since tribunal and not a word from DWP.BUT THE PLUS SIDE IS FOR YOU ALL IF YOU ARE PREPAIRED TO CARRY ON FIGHTING YOU CAN BEAT THE ***TARDS

    Comment by sue — September 17, 2013 @ 8:10 am

  674. Hello again I am posting what happened when I visited the bootstrap enterprise which is attatched to my earlier post here no 671.

    I attended the appointment at bootstrap and eventually had a one to one interview, it was mentioned that they are there to help me to do what they can to get me back to work with regards to any health issues that may affect getting back into work, I explained that I am unable to travel or even walk more than a few steps were the constant pain I have to live with increases to a level were I have to stop and find somewere to sit down, I showed her a large area on my knee were I fell over onto it leaving a large damaged area of my skin which was then healing up, I also showed her the burn marks were I constantly burn my left hand which is the only one that i can use to take hot food ect out of my micro wave oven, I am unable to bend or stand in front of a cooker to cook so this is how I prepare food, I keep forgetting to put on the oven gloves which some one bought for me to use when using the micro wave oven, and so it happens every time I dont have the gloves on to do this, I am unable to keep still and steady when putting things into the oven or taking things out I always catch the microwave oven with my hand which burns me has it would when I catch it.

    I have other joint problems which also contributes to any mobility.

    I have put in a claim for both PIP were the only way of getting any were would be by a car with some one to drive me, I havent been to a park in three years and I am now isolated from the out side world in every way.

    Any way after I had brought her at bootstrap up to date it was mentioned by her that I should leave it untill either my PIP is sorted out or I get a reply from ATOS after they have looked at my ESA 50 form which I am about to fill in.

    Any help on filling this form in would be appreciated.

    Bye Graham

    Comment by Anonymous — September 17, 2013 @ 9:30 am

  675. Hello Graham.

    You can get plenty of help to fill in the form at our sister site, just ask them http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 17, 2013 @ 4:05 pm

  676. We need to stand together Sue http://www.dwpexamination.org because ATOS will be back, they can assess you when they like, a recommendation from the tribunal not to be assessed for two years means diddly squat to ATOS/DWP.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 17, 2013 @ 4:11 pm

  677. I am 50 yrs old with Ulcerive Colitis a bowel disease which causes internal bleeding iron and B12 problems, lack of bowel control, limb pain, uncontrolable flatulence, constant discomfort and pain in my belly. crippling my life with depression impacting my self confidence overal panic going any where new in fear of not finding a toilet in time as I have aprox 3 mins before I mess myself. Was let go from my employers Oct 2008 due to long term illness from this disease as it has got worse over the years. Tried to work again but was then let go for the same problem in 2010 after LONG BATTLE WAS AWARDED WORK RELATED ESA? Had one interveiw with an adviser which could not be done due to the kindness of a security in Swindon’s office who refused me access to thier toilet resulting in me messing myself.
    The adviser said she would re schedual but this never happened I did though continue to recieve ESA until BANG!!!!A home visit March 20011 where I was informed my contibution had expired my husband works over the threshhold so I was not intitled to anything.
    No money no help no support and now two years of no national insurance contibutions so no pension for me!!!

    Comment by Anonymous — September 18, 2013 @ 7:02 am

  678. Oh and just to add 3 mins is on a good day !!! my bowels often leak and I was awarded max pionts for incontinance as most of the time I wear a pad for this problem. I have given up on my battle now I just do not have the energy or mental capacity to keep fighting my corner to no avail this well fare reform has nothing well in it nor is it fair !!!!!!! I have been made to feel a liaring scrounger who accounts for nothing and have been treated with no respect thought or understanding I have been humiliated to the piont that I now sit in a sea of hopelessness and depression, they have beat me and won I cannot fight any more I have just given up !!!!!!! I just can not face working with this dtsease I could not express the humiliation I have to go through so I now live in my dressing gown at home. I was given no help or support whilst on ESA no one re schedualed my one and only interveiw left to it until my days were up and then cast to one side. I tried to fight for my N I contibutions but got no where. I have to be looking for a job i’d rather die than live with that humiliation.

    Comment by Anonymous — September 18, 2013 @ 7:41 am

  679. Hello Anonymous.

    I agree with you, it’s totally unfair, that’s the way Lord Freud and Iain Duncan Smith have fixed it.
    Every day this pair wake up – and then speak to each other on the phone – and try their damnedest to think of another way to deprive the sick and disabled of their rights to benefits and or help.

    On this Blog – and subsequently on our sister site – for the last four years at least I’ve tried to warn everyone what is happening and what is going to happen, some have listened, but most think the welfare reforms do not apply to them for some reason, it’s not uncommon for folk to say Hey…they can’t touch me, I’ve got a letter saying I’m on benefits for life.
    Well these people had better wake up, because this benefits for life is all over, no one is on benefits for life anymore, everyone is to be assessed even the dying are being assessed to see if they can squeeze some work out of them before they go

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 18, 2013 @ 9:44 am

  680. .I am 50 yrs old with Ulcerive Colitis a bowel disease well anonymous you been atossed well and truly has one come over to the sister site were perhaps we could form a battle plan up but don’t leve them win thers thousands like us who go to win back our entitlements so please come across to http://www.dwpexamination.org its going to open your eyes further and give help in going forward against ids and hoban come across its not going to cost you but your time and that we have plenty of jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — September 18, 2013 @ 5:51 pm

  681. I am really confused as to why the support group is a good thing to be in! I was in this group for just over a year then called in for another medical, where i was found fit for work! i am back on basic ESA at the moment, with another medical to look forward to on Wednesday….not, i am dreading it, i am having a recorded one this time, the whole thing is a nightmare and so degrading to all of us with genuine illnesses.

    Comment by mags — September 21, 2013 @ 10:20 pm

  682. mags its not you but them they try hard to finish us off gethas many off benefits has possible but having your atos assessment recorded is a good start has they tend to fib a bit on our well being but when one arrives and goes to the desk first thing is to doask for your travel expense paper thatl prove you been there just incase they say or the machines broken and youl have to go in without it please remember this and posting on here its better if you posted on the sister site site its free theres more of us and can get that answer quicker hope its sgfor one but then they make nothing easy for us jeff3 http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by jeffrey davies — September 22, 2013 @ 10:02 am

  683. My son has autism and we applied for esa for him in Mar 13. His esa was finally processed in June and we then filled out the ATOS form with the help of his social worker, and stated herself, and his teachers and headmistress from the various special needs schools that he had attended to give confimation of his condition and abilities. This was returned in July and we have not had a reply as yet. We believe that he is entitled to the support group rate of esa. and dwp have said that if he is approved then it will be backdated. I have rang ATOS a couple of times now to see what the hold up is, and was informed that his questionaire was lodged with ATOS Drs who will decide what will next happen, be it a face to face or decide for him to be awarded the support group rate. I would like to know if ATOS have a time limit in which they are obligated to make their decision in. Of course if they deny my Son his support group rate I will appeal, but at a stalemate till they reply. Any advice would be appreciated.

    Comment by Laurette — September 23, 2013 @ 11:06 pm

  684. Hello Laurete.

    From the date a claimant claims ESA according to the Government ATOS/DWP have 13 weeks to either assess face to face or concede ESA to the claimant by looking at the medical evidence.

    After 13 weeks they are supposed to grant ESA until the claimant is assessed, then a further decision is made after assessment to either refuse ESA and claim one is fit for work or continue on with ESA because the claimant is unfit for work, with either the support group being granted or the WRAG with the option of an appeal to get the support group.

    We have found that sometimes this is not happening, we have found that ATOS can do as they please, if they want to take 16 weeks, 18 weeks, 120 weeks to assess someone on their fitness to work then that’s what they do, then when they do make a decision it doesn’t get backdated to the end of the 13th week.

    Obviously they reason is ATOS have to many customers and can’t cope so just ignore some people hoping they wont say anything or complain, so you should write a letter of complaint to the DWP and remind them that your son should be assessed within 13 weeks and if they look at the medical evidence they will see he should be granted the support group.
    If an assessment or decision is not forthcoming inside 13 weeks then full ESA should be granted at the beginning of the 14th week until a decision is made, moreover if an assessment happens after 13 weeks then if full ESA is granted it should be backdated to the beginning of the 14th week.

    If they refuse to grant the support group then we on our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org can help you with that, so stay cool and see what they decide then take the appropriate action depending on what they say.

    Good luck

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 24, 2013 @ 9:18 am

  685. Joe – thank you so much for your advice. We will definitely follow it through and get back to you with the final outcome x

    Comment by Laurette — September 24, 2013 @ 11:44 am

  686. Your welcome Laurette, and best of luck..!!

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 24, 2013 @ 1:49 pm

  687. We would be interested for peoples comments re the current application of the 12 month limit on Contributory WRAG ESA. My partner received Incapacity Benefit -and later ESA- for the past 10 years – in that time been through several medicals and 3 (successful) appeals – last successful appeal was May 2012 but under the 12 month rule contributory ESA rule in WRAG group this ceased in November. Appealed again to be put in the Support Group – at that stage asked for lots of documents- referred to as part of the evidence on which the decision had been based- to be supplied by the First Tribunal and the DWP – these were not supplied and the DWP did not turn up for appeal hearing – huge amount of documentation submitted by us and not responded to by DWP- even where directed/ requested by the First Tribunal- so issues of potential maladministration as well as the decision itself- at appeal upheld as still being entitled to be in WRAG but not qualifying for Support group. Have appealed this decision to the Upper Tribunal though not initially granted leave to appeal by First Tribunal and this process still ongoing.

    However, leaving aside the merits of our particular case it appears to us that under the 12 month rule if the claimant has a working partner or savings they are in a “Catch 22″ situation,potentially indefinitely or unless and until they qualify for Income Based benefits. In effect, if still deemed to be in WRAG then DWP are saying you are not fit for work- but we thought the idea of WRAG was supposed to be to identify and support those that had a reasonable prospect of being able to obtain work in the foreseeable future but had certain “obstacles” which they would be assisted in overcoming ie writing CVs, interview skills etc – and supposed to have interviews to progress this. However, in our case, no such assistance/ interviews/ guidance/ advice as to obstacles- and how could be overcome- was offered now or in the past.

    The 12 month rule in WRAG Contributory ESA appears to be potentially “heads we win, tails you lose” and “running down the clock” ie DWP agree and accept that you are not fit for work, but, as you are now off the “books” in monetary terms, have no particular interest or incentive to help you to get better or be able to seek work – worse still you cannot register for JSA either as you are deemed not fit for work anyway.It appears to us that potentially Contributory WRAG ESA claimants are likely to be a major “target” group in respect of achieving “savings” as under the 12 month rule on WRAG there will be complete loss of benefit even where the claimant is still ruled unfit for work.Have involved our local MP and in contact with the DWP re this issue. The upshot is that someones medical condition can be the same- or worse than before- when they were receiving benefit- and yet now they wouldl receive no advice or help as to how they could become fit for work or any benefit- indefinitely. Wonder if others have had similar experiences?.

    Comment by Peter — September 25, 2013 @ 10:25 am

  688. Peter…It’s all a con mate, like the spare room penalty em er I mean the bedroom tax, it’s just another way to screw money out of folk.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 25, 2013 @ 12:52 pm

  689. Peter

    i saw your post and just had to reply to this. my circumstances are different to most in that i do not have a partner. and am now receiving income related WRAG ESA. i had to fight to receive income related ESA as i had no idea they just stopped contributions based ESA after their magical assigned ( your better its been 12 months time limit ) even tho the DWP with there lackeys ATOS, are at the moment trying to find me fit for work by sending me for constant assessments. to remove me from the WRAG income based ESA.

    i am sure from my particular circumstances that this is just a money saving exercise being undertaken by the DWP. in my case, i have been to the supposed work provider, as although i have health problems i would love to be able to work. and misguidedly believed that they might be able to help. the fact is i have a fluctuating condition and there are random day’s throughout most weeks. where i cannot leave the house as it would be unsafe for me to do so. ( i cant even manage to feed myself on these days, so getting out of the house or on public transport would be a non starter) i thought that the work provider might try to understand my condition and find something that i could do on an as able basis, THIS WAS NOT THE CASE!!! my particular work provider ( or what ever they call them ) was not interested in trying to help me and instead, was only interested in pushing paper. i am perfectly capable of writhing cv’s. i have no problems with interview skills. and i hold a degree and numerous professional qualifications in my field. however the issue comes that an employer wants a full time member of staff, not anyone with a disability. yet every time i went to my work provider. on the days i could make it i must add ( and non attendance to a work provider meeting, even if it is health related. opens another can of worms entirely) it was just doing courses that were mind numbingly boring. and in my particular case a complete waste of the DWP money.

    so i had been with the work provider 3 months or so. and was now doing one to one interviews once a month, no more courses thank god i though. maybe they might now try and help me, BUT NO!!! these supposed interviews were to just bully me, tell me i was useless, and that i wasn’t trying. that my health condition didn’t exist! and that if i could make it to them once a month on occasion, i was well enough to go drive for a local courier company. they of course completely overlooked the fact that i cant and will never be able to drive. now don’t get me wrong i am highly educated, (although lacking in the fact i have dyslexia) but i am not a snob. as i have previously said i would love to work. if i was able too, and would love to find a work around too my condition. i would take any job offered if i was able to do the work. but i am just not.. and as i cant no employers are interested. ( i also have my doubt’s as to whether they would be able to insure me even if they employed me )

    so there face to face bullying tactic was not working, so they started to instead talk to the DWP and raise sanction doubts about my willingness to try and get better. ( how the DWP think they can magic better by bullying you, when the NHS, Private health care. and numerous specialists have not be able too is beyond me!!! but that’s another matter.) but there next tactic as it were, is too send you so much paperwork you are swamped with requests and you constantly have to write things back to them. they even try and insist that some of the things are hand written. at the point the DWP started this with me my condition took a turn for the worse the stress of trying to understand 3 too 4 letters a day was not helping. and so my sister took over. ( im lucky in the fact shes a lawyer with her own law practise. she also has power of attorney as i can get so bad from my condition i cant manage my own affairs occasionally)

    i have no idea what the current state of my DWP dealings are in the fact my sister is still dealing with things. ( as it is better for my condition ) but I’ve had too go to 5 or 6 meetings on different occasions with a judge etc. and i can only guess that my sister has worked out a clever way to make the DWP pay over the odds somehow. as after each meeting she tells me everything is fine, and asks if there is anything i need for my home she can get me..

    i can not comment on the “catch 22″ of having a partner. but all i can say is this.

    maybe the Conservative party.. who i thought supported marriage and long term commitment just want 1000s more divorces throughout the country.

    it seems as though they are trying to paint all disabled people as lesser citizens, in my experience. (I’m just wondering how long it will be until they try to force us too wear yellow stars on all our clothes so we can be easily identified in public?)

    i would also say, i do accept that even tho this seems 90% a money saving exercise. they are also trying to root out fraudulent claimants, but making a system whereby you need too be better able than a majority of disabled people who will struggle with fighting back. to be able to cope with the paperwork and to fight back is not the answer. ( they would have been better off hireing more private eye’s to watch pepole than this paperwork nonsense)

    also in relation to what you said “we thought the idea of WRAG was supposed to be to identify and support those that had a reasonable prospect of being able to obtain work in the foreseeable future but had certain “obstacles” which they would be assisted in overcoming” i too though that was the case. how in my case they are going to overcome my condition which is the obstacle.. baffles me if they’ve got a magic pill id take it tomorrow.

    all i can say to everyone is to fight for your rights as best as your able.. and would hope that the disabled masses who can vote for a change of government when the time comes WILL VOTE FOR CHANGE!!!

    i am unfortunately in a staunchly Conservative area!! so there is no point in me trying to vote for any non Conservative for anything!! ( however much i might want too ) as they have always won this seat since there was a uk Parliament.

    also in relation to what i have seen in other posts on getting your MP involved. mine basically said he was not interested as it was not an effective use of his time or something..

    it be interesting to see how many Conservative, liberal, labour, and other.. mps have actually helped constituents with problems relating to the dwp and atos… ( public information request anyone??? )

    Id be interested to know others comments as well.

    but too me it seems that the current government has this idea. you are either one of them or you are a SLAVE…

    who else feels like that???

    Comment by Anonymous — September 25, 2013 @ 11:38 pm

  690. Hello Anonymous.

    First of all thanks for your input, and sorry to hear you have to go through this nonsense day in day out.

    But the truth is this is reality, this is what we are fighting against, and that is why my co-editor and I set up a forum which is our sister site http://www.dwpexamination.org
    The only forum in Britain that tells it like it really is with none of this- HEY YOU CAN’T SAY THAT BECAUSE YOU MIGHT UPSET ATOS AND THEIR LAWYERS – to help folk like yourself without a voice.

    Can I just say though, you seem to be under the delusion – no disrespect to your good self and the thousands of others who think like this – that this is a money saving initiative by the Government, well I’m going to have to de-allusion you.

    This is a system brought in by the Government to take the money they give you/us and instead hand it over to their already rich corporate friends.

    UNUM insurance (A proven in court criminal American insurance company) were/are responsible for this chaos, they wish to provide work health insurance for the people of Britain, but first of all they need to get you/us to take out the insurance policy, but they can’t do that if you/us are already being paid by the Government, that’s why this dreadful WCA and those idiotic descriptors were brought in, to make it almost impossible for you/us to get money from the state.
    It’s a long story and a frightening one, and it’s important the we fully understand their true motivation, the fact that their WCAs are not saving money but actually costing the taxpayer money speaks for itself.

    Where does this money they are wasting go ? since it’s not going to us ?, yip you’ve got it in one.

    Anyone who wants to learn their rights, and wants to help us beat these criminal bastards will do well to log into our site http://www.dwpexamination.org this is war, and it’s not just a war against us, this is war against the people of Britain and a war for your children’s future, it’s just that the people of Britain are just not seeing it at the moment.

    But they will one day, we want to bring that day of realisation (In other words getting it) as close to the present as possible, not one day in the future when it’s far to late and we don’t have an NHS and a welfare state, and where everything is privatised (So far they’ve restricted legal aid) and nothing can be done.

    (PS) You may live in a strong Tory constituency, you may feel powerless and it’s a losing battle but every vote against them counts, it would only take a couple of thousand in your constituency to think positive and your MP is sunk in the water with no more laughing and joking and smiling at the cameras, and making you feel like you’d just like to punch that face of his about sixty times to make you feel better.

    Best regards

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 26, 2013 @ 11:02 am

  691. Many thanks for this and your comments are very interesting.

    In particular it seems that your experience of being in the income related WRAG group is that you have been – as they would say -constantly “helped”- to be able to get back to work – ie regular interviews/ courses/ forms etc. In fact your experience is that much of this in practice is pretty valueless and does not – and maybe given its nature and the nature of the problems cannot – help to overcome the medical obstacles which prevent you being unable to work. As such this “help” simply seems to become a form of “harassment” to imply that- given the “help” they have provided that if you cannot obtain and retain employment then it must be down to your own “deficiencies” or lack of effort or application etc. This of itself is further stress and I am sure very dispiriting.

    On a monetary level it is nevertheless interesting that they have provided you with this “help” on a constant basis as this did not happen to us so we cannot comment on how useful – or useless- this “help” is.

    Of course, in our case though my partner is still in WRAG- we are off the “books” in monetary terms and no longer receiving any benefit at all whereas they have more financial incentive to “help” you as you are in the income related group.

    It would be interesting to know if the experience of others on Conributory ESA generally is a relative lack of “interest” re work related activity and if this then increases if someone is either transferred to-or was always- receiving income related ESA?

    The wider point which I think emerges from your story is that the WCA assessment and how its results are interpreted by ATOS and tribunals is essentially based on focusing on a series of quite “narrow” individual tasks – both physical, mental and social- and if a potential claimant can undertake them again on a purely individual basis rather than repeatedly or permanently.

    The espoused rationale was to focus on what people could do- and not what they could not do- which sounded very laudable but in practice -as you have found- there is a world of difference with someone being able to carry out limited individual tasks on a given day- and in many conditions this varies a lot day to day- and then translating those limited individual tasks into an ability to obtain and retain a job – this to me seems to involve a much more integrated and complicated set of abilities and competencies – ie the fact that you could “pass” a WCA does not necessarily mean that you can, realistically,be able to apply for,obtain and keep a job – particularly in today’s stringent economic climate.

    I think the WCA is particularly weak in accurately and fully assessing people with mental health and associated problems – inevitably any system – including the old Incapacity Benefits test will have to focus on individual tasks and allocate points and there will always be errors – and hence the appeals system – though the very high success rate in appeals on the current system suggests, of itself, there are inherent “problems” with this as currently constituted and interpreted

    The difficulty is building up a picture of the “whole” person and what they can- and cant- realistically do overall- day in day out – not just as a “one off ” activity” and physically but in terms of energy levels,prioritising, organising, communicating, understanding, dealing with social situations, learning new tasks, concentration, etc etc etc which is what much “work” today demands

    Again, as you say, it is difficult to see how limited- and probably formulaic WRAG activity -can overcome problems which have resisted detailed medical and / or psychiatric specialised help over many years

    This may also be why we see so many decisions overturned at appeal on the “exceptional circumstances” clauses 29 and 35 as the main assessment points scoring does not pick up the “wider” picture

    You are fortunate in that you have your sister to assist you- and I can do the same for my partner- however, I feel for those in the same situation who don’t have access to family, friends or others who can help as I am sure many feel desperate, isolated and alone and sometimes give up – or even worse

    All the best for the future

    Comment by Peter — September 26, 2013 @ 11:15 am

  692. peter come on over to http://www.dwpexamination.org theres loads there just like you were help is given it doesn’t cost and is given freely by all jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — September 26, 2013 @ 7:04 pm

  693. Had ATOS October 2012. Failed. Appealed. Just had appeal and won. It says I’m entitled to the ESA with work related activity component. Below it says I should not be assessed for another 24 months. I don’t get it. I thought it meant it last 24 months but then I read around and it’s supposed to be only 12 months. If it only lasts 12 months, then stops, and I can’t appeal for another 12 months…what the hell happens? Am I getting this wrong. I have no idea when the ESA starts, what I get, or even what I have to do. I thought things were going to be quiet for a while, but it seems I’m going to be pestered all the time with interviews and training courses. I’ve been extra anxious and barely sleeping for a while before this NICE appeal interview. Now they’re going to be pestering me constantly? Why can’t they leave me to get over my mental issues at my own pace in peace instead putting more stress on me.

    Comment by Steven — September 29, 2013 @ 10:12 am

  694. Hi Steven.

    I’m not getting you ?.

    You have won an appeal and the panel have recommended you are not assessed on your fitness to work for two years.

    You need to understand that it’s just a recommendation to the DWP/ATOS, because ATOS do not need to pay a blind bit of notice to the panels recommendations, ATOS can do as they like.

    But if ATOS assess you inside that two year recommendation and find you fit for work and you appeal then your representative will point out to the new panel that the previous panel indicated – recommended – you shouldn’t be assessed for at least two years, that can only help your future appeal.

    You have been granted the WORK RELATED ACTIVITY GROUP of ESA, this means you need to attend any courses or work related interviews they say you should attend, the only way round that is to be granted the Support group of ESA.

    Now I need to explain something else, especially to all you psyche majors out there, the reason for these recommendations from the tribunal panels is to help take the weight of ATOS and the DWP, and no other reason, its got nothing to do with being nice or they really think you shouldn’t be assessed for a while or because they think your a nice chap.
    But everything to do with helping ATOS from the burden of their ever increasing workload.

    Comment by dwpexamination — September 29, 2013 @ 3:02 pm

  695. Hi, I received a letter from dwp this morning, stating I had been put in support group. I am able bodied and bright, but a miscarriage, bankruptcy, death of father and redundancy all at the same time have left me a gibbering mess. Have a past which includes violence, rape and constant anxiety. However, I have leant to live with these, and try to do things in my day that help including a lot of swimming, meditation, trying to be happy. However I am massively surprised that I have been ‘accepted’ I am functioning, I ‘think’ I can work, I have a degree and plenty of qualifications, and a wide work history. I am simply reeling after too many negative things have broken my psyche. Not only have I passed, but my ESA has pretty much doubled. I can only assume that I was so thorough in my medical, (I left no stone unturned) that they thought ‘let’s give her a break to get her life sorted’ I didn’t go in with any attitude, but I did let it all hang out so to speak, and tried not to be embarrassed or putting a bright face on for the sake of the interview. Still amazed at the decision, I thought for real I would be told to take a hike!

    Comment by Surprised — October 3, 2013 @ 10:32 am

  696. Hi Surprised, I think it all depends on which healthcare professional you get doing your assessment and which DWP decision maker deals with your case.

    I have a similar background to you I was sexually abused by a neighbour at 5 years old, raped in my early twenties, had postnatal depression and was hospitalised whilst I was there my husband divorced me and took custody of my son also my dad died. My second husband was violent which culminated in him attacking me with an axe, he left me in £15,000 of debt an as I could not work I had to sell my home to pay it off. I lived with my mum for a couple of months but one morning I got up and found her dead on the lounge floor, as the house was rented I had to leave and was homeless for awhile.

    I have depression, anxiety, panic attacks and agoraphobia, also, as I am now 58, I suffer with arthritis in my spine, knees and hips.

    My first Atos assessment in 2011 awarded me 0 points, the report was full of lies so I appealed and won. The second assessment in April this year was recorded, at my request, I do not know how many points I scored but Atos recommended Support group and that I be left alone for 2 years. The DWP however want to put me in the WRAG and it has gone to a senior decision maker. That was nearly 6 months ago and I am still awaiting a decision.

    The report from the latest assessment did not pay much attention to the arthritis but, in my opinion, exagerated my mental health problem. I think this is because of the court case which ruled that the WCA is unfair to people with mental health conditions. I think that now the DWP are putting as many people as possible with mental health problems into the support group in order to disprove that court ruling. In other words we are just being used as pawns in their cruel game.

    Comment by Norma — October 3, 2013 @ 11:56 am

  697. right norma surprised and steve why not come across to http://www.dwpexamination.org were there are people who been through hell just like us and asking questionswell your post will be answered quicker steve being put into the wrag for two yrs means from appeal was put in but if the courts say two yrs then they shouldn’t call you but come across its free supplied by jb who who also pays for this one him and nelson who give his life for these two sites that benefit you jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — October 3, 2013 @ 2:11 pm

  698. An additional piece of information .I am an uk citizen who has been on IB for 6years i live in spain under the new esa rules i was reffered for an examination in spain .it was crried out by a spanish doctor who 9 due to the arrogance and incompetence of the DWP) had no training in the ESA system of examination There is noway the poor spanish doctor could provide the information required by atos to make the appropriate decision.When I raised this situation with the DWP they where their usual dismissive selves saying the fact that the Spanish doctor did not understand the requirements of the ESA was of no consequence. the dwp also went as far as commiting the latter coments in writing.

    Comment by david jenkins — October 4, 2013 @ 3:27 pm

  699. yesdavid we got a member just like you been there done that anxious her name ,but she had to resort to coming back to blighty so she could get her benefit yet the same shitte they said to her but atthis moment is living in some doss house around London yes theydo tend to want us to go quietly if wanting help on this then log onto http://www.dwpexamination.org jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — October 4, 2013 @ 7:51 pm

  700. I have been fighting this system for 5 years now after suffering a stroke then a heart attack (accidentally my mother gave them my hospital bed number DWP phoned me in coronary care to tell me i was now claiming the wrong benefit) recently found out i am HIV + and have related symptoms including depression that i have been suffering for a number of years now – im so so tired of it all i really have no fight left – ive even emailed David Cameron with no reply – nobody will help me – ive had no money since july !
    I think the best way is to end it all then i wont have to beg anyone anymore!

    Comment by Anonymous — October 7, 2013 @ 9:26 pm

  701. Anonymous…The DWP say you were claiming the wrong benefit ?, what benefit were/are you claiming and what benefit do they say you should claim ?.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 8, 2013 @ 8:01 am

  702. So I posted up there (693) and since then the situation may have changed. Shortly after, I received mail saying that my “Contributions Based ESA was ending 23rd November” because I’d been on the full 365 days. I think this arrived the following monday (2 days later, I just didn’t want to deal with this…and I didn’t want the answer, because I’m actually dreading what it is), so technically, they could have received my verdict and got the letter sent out in time to arrive (hey, post delivers fast when it’s bad news), BUT is this nothing to do with my appeal and what they’d sent out anyway? Or is this because of my appeal, and despite winning the appeal, if you take into account back pay (not got, no idea if getting) dates I’ll have technically been on ESA 365 days now. So even though I’ve only just won the appeal and switching over to work based ESA, I’m being chucked off it in a month because they’re counting back to the backdated date last year, and have now had 365 days? Is that what it means?

    *confused as hell*

    Comment by Steven — October 8, 2013 @ 9:06 am

  703. steven you will get aanswer faster if you cross over too http://www.dwpexamination.org there loads like us there who will supply a answer for one it doesn’t cost you nowt jeff3

    Comment by Jeffrey Davies — October 8, 2013 @ 10:37 am

  704. re post 700
    Today i recieved a reply from 10 Downing street advising me to seak out help from the DWP exactly where i told them i was getting no help or advice – its a crazy system !

    Comment by Anonymous — October 9, 2013 @ 8:24 pm

  705. Hello Anonymous.

    Photo copy it and along with a letter requesting help send it to the DWP.
    Make sure it’s a copy, never send the DWP originals, because if you do you will never see it again.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 10, 2013 @ 8:13 am

  706. I had no idea my benefit is being stopped next year until I went for an interview with an advisor today ,I had been on incapacity benefit for seventeen years with a cronic back disability which is going to cotinue to get worse for the rest of my live ? Their letter after my assessment was very misleading my wife will have to keep me and or daughter don’t know what to do now ?? Atos and Tories have now ruined any quality of live I had…….

    Comment by Anonymous — October 11, 2013 @ 4:25 pm

  707. anonymous backpain please come across to http://www.dwpexamination.org there you will find how to fight back against them jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — October 11, 2013 @ 4:37 pm

  708. I was on incapacity benefit for 17 years iv had many medical assessments and never cut of ,so it cam as a shock when I was put on contributions based esa I thought name benefit had just changed but now know benefits willstop next year don’t what to do ?? I’m clearly not fit to work or I would be don’t know how my family will cope my wife can’t afford to keep me and daughter ,any quality of life I had is now gone thanks to the Tories and attos

    Comment by alan — October 11, 2013 @ 4:55 pm

  709. Hi Alan,

    Have you asked about income related ESA? Any income you have (your wife’s wages for example) is taken into account also if you have a private or works pension. As it is means tested your savings will be taken into account also.

    Just to give you and idea: I applied for it when my contributions based ESA stopped in January. I have a small ill-health retirement pension of approx £43 per week, this is deducted pound for pound from my ESA. So instead of £100.15 a week I get £57.15.

    I live alone and have no savings so it was just the pension that was taken into account.

    It might be worth a try?

    Good luck and best wishes

    Comment by Norma — October 11, 2013 @ 7:52 pm

  710. The ESA talk to you like something they’ve stepped in.
    They know your at rock bottom financially and they enjoy keeping you there.
    Your not allowed to have or do anything nice. Once you hit that bottom and household appliances and furniture are in desperate need of replacing and you cannot afford to buy, they laugh and joke.
    So to the majority of the staff at the ESA they always say what goes around comes around and we can’t wait until you are in the same predicament. And then we will stand and not laugh, no pity just watch and see how you cope in the same diabolical financial struggling situation. We are not scrounges we are people yes people who have had a unfortunate turn of events with our health and through no fault of our own.
    We are still human beings and not scum.

    Comment by Steve — October 12, 2013 @ 5:31 am

  711. My wife was on ESA for a few years…
    She had been a nurse for the NHS for over 25 years.
    A spinal operation went terribly wrong and left her totally paralysed down one side.
    Her working life was over and the NHS gave her pension early through ill health.
    The ESA took pound for pound off what she was getting through her pension.
    She had a private insurance policy that she had paid over the years out of her own worked wages and after a long string of medicals and correspondence they decided to award her total disability payout.
    We did the right thing and informed the ESA that she had this money through total disability.
    They stopped her benefit from immediate effect.
    They said once she had hit below £16000 left she could reapply for part benefit and then once below £6000 she could have total benefit back.
    But their was conditions that every receipt she spent the money on had to be saved and we could not fritter the money on luxuries.
    We paid some debts off.
    Knowing the house was in such a state and my wife needing medical equipment etc we have spent the money wisely and paid out for wheelchair, handrails etc around the home.
    Our furniture was broken and appliances had had their day and were in desperate need of replacing so we replaced them as we knew we would not get the opportunity to do this again.
    We had a extension to the lounge built as the doctors had told my wife that eventually she would not be able to climb stairs as her condition will still deteriorate. This would kit her out for a bed in there when the time comes.
    Now we are below that £6000 mark we sent off to reapply and sent all details of what we had spent the money on.
    They have turned us down and said we cannot have the benefit back.
    They told us, We have spent the money on luxuries like fitting a new carpet in the extension. Having new furniture etc when it should be second hand!
    We should have had cheap appliances. We thought that having a good warranties on appliances would see them last a bit as we would not have to replace them for a while which would benefit us under the circumstances of not having this type of money again.
    According to the ESA we have squandered the money.
    We have not used any of it for luxuries not even had a night out with it.
    ESA want you to remain in the gutter and once you are there they will try there damn hardest to keep you there and making sure you squirm in the dirt at the same time.
    ESA staff are very good at stating what you should do and then when telephoning again they have a habit of saying the person you spoke to last would not have told you that or you are making it up.
    No body gives you their full name anymore so you cannot refer to them in another call.
    None of the ESA tell you the truth.
    They belittle you and talk to you extremely bad.

    We tried to do our uttermost to help my wife long term with this money and yet we are still penalised.
    We are not humans and we do not have any rights.
    You shall remain poverty stricken no matter what.
    We cannot claim now for a couple of years or when they see fit how long that money should of lasted us instead of benefits.
    People do not get down troddened by these hard faced idiots.
    They are not worth it.

    Comment by Steve — October 12, 2013 @ 6:19 am

  712. Hello Steve.

    I understand what you and your wife are going through, it’s just a farce, those are just some of the reasons this blog was set up nearly five years ago, we seen it coming way back then, and it’s going to get worse, that’s why we need to stick together, that’s the only way we can win.
    I encourage you to log into our free sister site and learn your rights http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 12, 2013 @ 8:50 am

  713. Great advice, and thanks for that Norma.

    Comment by dwpexamination — October 12, 2013 @ 8:52 am

  714. why suffer in silence why suffer on your own nah just type copy and paste into ones browser then we all can sign from the same hyme sheet come on over it be the best place you been for help that doesn’t cost you http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by jeffrey davies — October 12, 2013 @ 11:49 am

  715. Can DWP force JSA claimant to move??? I live in an area where public transport is a major issue so I need to try and find work very close to home (I don’t drive) or ideally begin a business I can run from a laptop at home. They are threatening to sanction my benefit if I don’t consider moving!!
    Legally where do I stand here please?

    Comment by Just — October 15, 2013 @ 11:30 am

  716. Hi Just,

    If I were you I would contact Citizens Advice for example regarding this as soon as you can. As far as I know they cannot do this but I do not have a legal background nor do I know all the DWP rules and regulations.

    Good luck

    Comment by Norma Roberts — October 15, 2013 @ 12:43 pm

  717. http://www.scriptonitedaily.com/2013/06/25/atos-boss-earns-44k-a-week-while-disabled-fight-to-keep-just-131/

    Hope this is ok to post this here, RIP the 10600 people who were classed fit to work yet died within 6 weeks of that decision.

    Comment by Lyn — October 16, 2013 @ 4:24 pm

  718. Hi I have just on the 17th Oct 13 attended my ESA tribunal and received a exempt medical work related blah blah ! I actually scored a 0 at the ATOS medical but my Neurologist urged me to appeal as there does not seem to be any boxed to tick for pain! I suffer from a very rare condition called SUNA and suffer cronic cranial nerve pain which cannot be controlled. I felt relieved that I felt liked I had won. That is until I phoned up the DWP who said as from end of Sept I had received all my contribution based ESA so I will now only receive the back dated higher level upto Sept when it stopped and cannot claim anything else as my husband works full time. I think I will get my NI paid but am not sure on this yet. I have 2 young children and due to my husband earning slightly over the margin for family tax we will get no help. Not even free dentists, thank goodness I live in Wales as at least all the mediciation I take is free as we have free prescriptions. This system is crazy and so unfair.
    Any advise would be helpful x

    Comment by Sharon — October 18, 2013 @ 10:33 pm

  719. what did you appeal against to get to the tribunal if you appealed about being placed in the wrag then surly you must have been put in the support group if so your money should not stop

    Comment by stevenlumley5915steve5815 — October 18, 2013 @ 10:45 pm

  720. Sharon please jump over to this sister site of http://www.dwpexamination.org it will be better for one in help forward ont leave them win get help with this on dwp they deny us our rights by putting us in the wrag for 365 days nowing full well that your days are numbered in them paying for one are you going to allow it get your backside over to the sister site were help with it will be giving faster jeff3

    Comment by jeffrey davies — October 19, 2013 @ 12:33 pm

  721. Thanks Norma for your advice.

    Comment by Just — October 22, 2013 @ 7:21 pm

  722. Hi everybody, OMG!! Reading these horror stories is frightening. I have been off work since March of this year and put in a claim for ESA from October, when SSP and employer pay ceased. I have just completed the ESA50 form, found it harrowing and after reading all the comments on this page, I somehow know I will get nil points!. Im 60 and I have worked since i was 15, except for maternity leave when I had my three children and worked hard as a mother and housewife! I have Ulcerative Colitis, Asthma, and recently diagnosed with Anxiety and Depression due to work related issues. My partner works so i am claiming ESA on my own contributions. And why shouldn’t I have some money to continue to help with household expenses? I have got to Level 4 meeting with my employers and am anticipating and been told that I could be dismissed due to ill health. I find it degrading to have to beg for £71.70 per week! I should be able to claim my state pension, but this, as Im sure you are all aware has been delayed. I have to wait till 2016 to get my entitlement which is far less that i have paid in over the years. Im scared!

    Comment by Pauline — October 28, 2013 @ 5:56 pm

  723. Hi Pauline,

    I am 58 and I will have to wait until 2021, also I do not have anyone else so it is just me and my 20 year old cat!

    My first assessment was in December 2011, I “failed” with 0 points. I asked for the Atos report and could not believe all the inaccuracies, ommissions and downright lies contained within. I appealed and also sent a letter of complaint to Atos. After several week Atos admitted the report was not up to standard, and the DWP overturned their decision without the need for an appeal.

    My second assessment was in April this year, I requested that it be recorded and was granted ESA in May, albeit in the work related activity group. Six months later I have still not had to attend a work focusssed interview.

    My advice to you is to tell Atos you want your assessment recording, also take someone with you. Be aware that EVERY question they ask is to get info from you: “Do you have a pet?” to which you may answer “a dog” from this they will assume that you can bend to feed the dog, that you can bathe and groom the dog and that you can take it out for walks. They do not ask you if you can, or whether someone else cares for the animal, they just assume. Try not to answer just yes or no, if you struggle with something elaborate and TELL them how it affects your life.

    Look online for the latest ESA descriptors and points awarded and see how many you SHOULD get. If you have to appeal ask for a copy of the report (they have to send you one if you ask) and go through it carefully. Any errors you may find, and the list of descriptors and points you have acquired online, will help you word your appeal.

    Remember you will only get contributions based ESA for 365 days, after this you can apply for income based but your partner’s income and any other income you have is taken into account. If you are retired from your job on ill-health grounds will you get a pension? If the worst happens would you be able to manage on this in the short term until 2016? If you do get an ill-health pension this will be deducted pound for pound if you later get income based ESA. For example: I have a small il health pension of about £45 pw, this is deducted from the £100.15 ESA I am entitled to, so I receive £55.15 income based ESA each week. When I was on contributions based this pension did not affect it at all.

    Best wishes and good luck!

    Comment by Norma Roberts — October 28, 2013 @ 8:00 pm

  724. http://www.dwpexamination.org for help with atos or the dwp

    Comment by jeffrey davies — October 28, 2013 @ 8:35 pm

  725. I have never seen nor heard from anyone from ATOS they wrote a report on me by a General Practising Nurse but I have severe mental health issues,The Nurse had no information on me other than what was in the Questionnaire,No medical reports from my Doctor,no face to face interviews,nothing this must be Illegal.I lost my case on tribunal because they said iam not Violent so I don’t qualifie for Support What a shame so iam going to take them to Court of Sessions

    Comment by john west — November 3, 2013 @ 1:33 pm

  726. Docile behaviour doesn’t win tribunals John, talking about sticking knives in people or threatening to stick the nut on Iain Duncan Smith when one gets a hold of him seems to do the trick though, sorry but it’s true.
    They just don’t want violent people in the work place.
    That’s how some people get points, one chap with mental health issues won a tribunal by threatening to beat up the GP on the panel for being cheeky and having an attitude.
    I’m not suggesting you or anyone else displays that type of behaviour, but it has won people tribunals, whilst being compliant and docile gets SFA.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 3, 2013 @ 9:42 pm

  727. Incapacity benefit case law states physical aggression is not a necessary factor 4.4.2

    Comment by johnto123 — November 3, 2013 @ 9:51 pm

  728. 4.4.2 cib/664/2005 states that physical aggression is not a necessary factor when considering the descriptor

    Comment by johnto123 — November 3, 2013 @ 9:57 pm

  729. I need help :(( My partner works and she earns less than 16k a year. I am nearly blind i am (so say) been put in the support group of ESA but will not be paid any money what so ever because i haven’t contributed enough Well i have been Nearly blind all my life with Retinitis Pigmentosa which leads to total blindness. I am unable to claim any money Because i haven’t contributed enough i cant work because of my eyesight so i cant claim JOB SEEKERS ALLOWANCE either. So if i have been put into the support group with No money help or free prescriptions what support am i getting exactly :(( Can any one please help me it’s destroying my mental health and my relationship :((

    Kind regards


    Comment by Shaun Mansbridge — November 3, 2013 @ 11:41 pm

  730. All I can say is I have reported both nurse an doctor and intend to take my case to court of sessions it is Illegal how we are treated so to court I go a real court not a corrupt DWP tribunal it costs 197 pounds to take action and grants if you are on benefits I will take my own case so no big solicitors fees

    Comment by johnto123 — November 3, 2013 @ 11:54 pm

  731. Good luck John, please let us know how you got on.

    Comment by Lyn — November 4, 2013 @ 7:02 am

  732. It is not that it is the rules it seems. you can’t into the support group unless you are violent and have been in Prison that is why I was refused to get into support group they said as I was not violent I could not get into support group but under but under incapacity case law 4.4.2 cib/664/2005 states that physical aggression is not a necessary factor when considering the Descriptor.

    Comment by johnto123 — November 4, 2013 @ 7:51 am

  733. Hello Shaun.

    You are in the support group of ESA Shaun, and because you haven’t enough insurance contributions this means you are not entitled to Contributory ESA, but you are fully entitled to income related ESA, that’s the part the DWP deliberately didn’t tell you.
    If you were in the work related group (WRAG) of ESA then because your partner is earning more than £149 a week you wouldn’t be able to claim anything.

    I suppose you received a letter from the DWP saying you are not entitled to Employment and support allowance because you didn’t have enough national insurance contributions ? of course you did, I know because I got the same letter Shaun, and is a standard letter of misinformation authorised by the last Government and deliberately encouraged by Iain Duncan conman Smith.

    You can claim income related ESA if you are in the support group of ESA, and that will stand until ATOS assess you and deliberately find you fit for work, in which case you would have to appeal, but that’s for the future, in the meantime you are entitled to income related ESA and it will all be backdated.

    So get help from Citizens advice or your local welfare rights.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 4, 2013 @ 9:45 am

  734. Yes I understand that John, but these panels as well as the DWP can ignore case law and any rule they like whenever it suits them.
    Why do you think people have to appeal when they are at deaths door ? because the DWP are not following the rules in the first place, and some of these panels are in cahoots with the DWP.
    I’m trying to tell you something, you either catch on to what I’m saying and get the message or you don’t.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 4, 2013 @ 9:53 am

  735. stop it jb im pissing myself you just made me laugh but john its getting to learn how to if ones ill they don’t has you now give our monies just say like me im going to poke you in the eyes sg

    Comment by Jeffrey Davies — November 4, 2013 @ 11:36 am

  736. Hello everyone,

    I am enquiring on behalf of someone who is in the Support group, because of mental health problems.
    If he worked up to 16 hours a week, is he likely to be placed in the Work related group, and therefore loose the extra allowance?
    Therefore, any money from employment would hardly replace the extra allowance, although he feels that he needs to be active to have a balanced life, and he hasn’t managed to find enough voluntary work to fill his time.

    Thanks for your thoughts and informations.


    Comment by Michelle — November 4, 2013 @ 2:39 pm

  737. michelle isn’t your own brain telling you after the fight to get to sg then doing any work at all will lose them the right to stay in sg even taking away all their benefit placing them firmly in the jcp que but then that’s entirely up to them if they want to work there isn’t no half measure with this lot jeff3 http://www.dwpexamination.org

    Comment by Jeffrey Davies — November 4, 2013 @ 5:10 pm

  738. Thank you Jeffrey. Of course I agree with you, I did battle long and hard, and will pick up the pieces if anything goes wrong (again).
    But you give me ammunitions because unfortunately “that’s entirely up to him” and I am running out of arguments why he should not rock this precarious boat.

    Comment by Michelle — November 4, 2013 @ 6:09 pm

  739. Hi, my husbands ESA contributions based ended in May. He was put into the WRAG on appeal at tribunal, but that took so long that he only had a couple of months of the contributions based left. He asked to be reassessed due to further deterioration for the support group, in may when they reverted to just paying NI contributions on his behalf. We are now in October and have had no update offered. We have contacted DWP on a couple of occasions to be told that he has been referred back to ATOS for a face to face, but that they are working through a back log. I work full time, so we are not starving, but it is the principle of the thing. My husband suffers from Angina, Widespread Arthritis, and spondylosis of the lower spine and neck. He is in constant pain, he frequently gets breathless, he has nerve problems that cause numbness down both arms and hands, cannot mobilise without support of sticks and needs accompanying outside of the house due to imbalance.
    I cannot understand how some who play the system seem to get what they set out to, and people with genuine problems like many within this thread, are treated as though they are malingering. I don’t think that anyone should be made to feel this way.
    Can they really get away with delaying reassessments like this?

    Comment by Fred — November 4, 2013 @ 11:40 pm

  740. Hello Fred.

    Unfortunately ATOS and the DWP have had the go ahead from the last Government ( From November 2008)) to do as they like with no questions asked as long as they don’t actually murder anyone.
    When the Tories came into power in 2010 they couldn’t believe their luck, all the dreadful policies they wanted to introduce had been handed to them on a plate, they discovered that New Labour were really their pals and had actually done all the hard work for them, but they had a good hard look and decided that new Labour hadn’t gone quite far enough and since no one gives a rats ass about us, and more importantly we couldn’t be bothered to learn our rights but allow others to do our thinking and fight our battles for us then they got this ugly idea that they could introduce policies that were even more draconian because they knew they can get away with anything, and one of these ugly ideas was that contributory ESA shall end after 365 days unless one can get the support group of ESA, of course they made sure that to get the support group of ESA one has to be so incapacitated and that life is such a living hell that thinking about living on is no longer an option.
    It doesn’t take a veritable Einstein to work out that very few people can make the support group of ESA.

    So the answer to your question ”Can they really get away with delaying assessments like this ?” is YES, they can get away with anything, and we’ll take it and like it, unless we band together and do something about it.

    We have made a start and created a forum exposing these criminals, a forum with the server in Iceland which means not under the jurisdiction of the British Government and also means we can tell the truth without being threatened by ATOS and Government lawyers, log in and learn your rights and help us defeat them.

    (PS) No one who is playing the system can get the support group, gaining the WRAG of ESA is difficult enough.

    Comment by dwpexamination — November 5, 2013 @ 9:30 am

  741. Hi, I appealed against being put in the WRAG group, my appeal was over the month so I was informed that a benefit office appointment made to discuss work related options would still go ahead. Today, however, they rang to cancel it because they are informed that review of my appeal letter (didn’t use the official appeal form at all, just letter) has led to my placement in the Support Group and that conformation would be forthcoming. This is a happy outcome, bit I still would like to see my ES85 details and my score. In my appeal letter I asked to see points score and ES65 (unaware until discovery of your website that this is watered-down version that they encourage you to ask for). When making telephone enquiries to DWP before I made my appeal, I was told that I only get these details if it goes to further appeal stages.

    Happily it won’t, but mindful of the fact that being placed in the Support Group is reviewable, and also mindful of arming myself in advance of going through it again ref. when DLA is changed, my question is can I still ask for 1) ES85 and my points score ref. original decision that placed me in WRAG, and 2) can I even ask for details ref. the overturn of that at review stage? Prior telephone responses were very brick-wall that I couldn’t but I simply would like to know if I can access this info because I am curious to know whether that they put me originally in the WRAG group even with what I suspect to be a high points tally.

    Thanks in